Review:Red Ink Bookshop

by Holy Moses Thu May 19, 2005 18:25

This is one of those moments when, having heard the answer, you say "oh, I was going to say that". An Anarchist bookshop. You took the idea right out of my head. At least that's one less ambition to harbour. Will call in though, especially if you have copies of Kropotkin's books. Can't find them anywhere, you know...
Oh, and sex books too...

by gramsci fan Fri May 20, 2005 13:04

Amen to all of this - and fair play to the lads and lasses at Red Ink for getting this together and keeping it going!

For the uninitiated - Red Ink is above Flip clothes shop, beside the Central Bank.

by for anarchy Sun May 22, 2005 10:24

Red Ink is of course an excelent shop. It has been there for a year! It has nothing to do with the WSM! It does not just stock the dried up old sith that the WSM stock.
Why are the WSM trying to advertise themselves using someone elses book/record shop?? cringe...

by Joe Sun May 22, 2005 11:01

Get down your dictionary and look up the meaning of
"decentralised growth"

"expands greatly"

"people acting for themselves"

Then give the accuracy of your bizarre comment some thought.

I'm not on the editorial group for Workers Solidairty but at a guess I'd say the main purpose of this review was to advertise the existence of Red Ink so that more people would know about it. Given the first two comments I think it suceeded in this.

[In fact I give a 60% chance that this comment is from our our old trot provocateur sticking his head up again to try and sow disunity. The giveaway is that he can only see the sort of relationship between WSM and Red Ink as that of rivalary. Anarchists on the other hand tend not to have problems with the concepts of mutual aid and solidarity - we tend not to view each other as rivals but rather as people taking different paths to the same destination]

by pete Sun May 22, 2005 22:14

as someone new to dublin, my google-fu wasn't that great but with this info here on indymedia i was able to get in touch with some cool people in the area. andrew and anne at the shop were very helpful, forwarding me towards other interesting spots, shops, and people.

by FOR ANARCHY Sun May 22, 2005 23:19

why couldn't ye just write something about the bookshop without plugging your own organisation? I'd like to give em a plug too as they stock hundreds of zines, from local teens, anarchists, allsorts, everything in fact, records+CDs, even coffee last time I looked!

by WSM Watcher - No Hierarchy No Masters Sun May 22, 2005 23:20

Red Ink like the whole crusty penis pierced style left is a front for the elitist WSM.

Nothing on Organisation no interest in Unions but lots of money for hair dye and brothel kreepers, ha ha.

by infestation Mon May 23, 2005 00:00

Are you expecting a detailed analysis of the state of unions from the review? Or are you looking for books on unions and organisation in Red Ink?

a) The WSM have quite detailed takes on unions throughout its site and publications.

b) Meanwhile Red Ink has books on organisation and unions in store.

You must be one of those types that think a book shop is something that happens when you put an infinite amount of monkeys in a room with an infinite amount of time, cos in your head those anarchists that have organised a book shop are organised and that does not equate with your limited vision of political action. Go back to trolling on some random trot board, I'm off to watch family guy....

by me Mon May 23, 2005 07:51

hahahaha

"Red Ink like the whole crusty penis pierced style left is a front for the elitist WSM."

That is fuckin hilarious.
You are a complete idiot.
Hahahahaha

Red ink is a book shop run by two people who have nothing whatsoever to do with the WSM.
Not watching very well, are you, 'WSM watcher'?
Fronts are for socialists.

by wsm watcher Mon May 23, 2005 12:31

This thread is becoming increasingly lame. Red Ink has nothing to do with the WSM whatsoever. Its run by a punk lad from Dalkey and his American girlfriend. I've only met them once but they seem nice. If you wanted to be lazy you could call them middle-class revolutionary shopkeepers making money from selling the revolution to kids in Temple Bar, but surely its better that they're middle class and doing that, instead of running a nail parlour out in Castle Street.

The WSM get an awful lot of attention on this site considering their membership has only recently passed the 20 mark. They are prolific though in anarchist circles because they're organised, they write and produce a shitload of material, and it is picked up all over the world. They DONT SET UP FRONTS the way the SWP do. They do however praise and get involved in campaigns and groups that they dont necessarily agree fully with. This is so people will be encouraged to join them. They shouldnt be shy about this - they're a political organisation like anyone else and want more members so they can spread their message.

About two or three years ago, the WSM had an internal debate about why they were going nowhere. They've been around for 20 years now, and in their own words in an internal document, "we have no basis in the [working] class". They decided to get involved with "lifestyle" anarchism which has been growing in Ireland, even though some of their older members are quite worker-ist. This was also a problem, because most of the lifestyle anarchists in Dublin view the WSM with a relatively high degree of suspicion. Why? Because many of their members - crucially - unashamedly eat meat, wear Nike & Adidas, drive cars, etc. This sort of thing is a red rag to a bull for most lifestylers, and viewed as complete hyprocisy. Even their organisation style is described as "the SWP of anarchism" by a couple of people.

A recent side project was the "Dublin Grassroots Network", specifically set up for Mayday 2004 (after that it has not existed in any real shape or form, apart from a token anti non-lethal weapons protest). People say it grew organically from the Gatherings but that isnt true, the founding principles of DGN were written privately by the WSM and not discussed through meetings. After Mayday 2004, the WSM held a large recruitment meeting, and managed to absorb six or seven new members, directly from "DGN". Understand thats a MASSIVE increase in membership for them. Once this was exhausted for new members, the project has been let slide - to the point where it was suggested on the mailing list for it to be disbanded completely, quote:

"At the meeting it was decided that we need begin discussing whether we want to continue with Dublin Grassroots Network or whether it has come to the end of its usefulness... DGN was supposed to be an umbrella group that could draw in different types of activists. However within Dublin, various activists (such as the punk scene) do not see DGN as the type of group they can or want to join. The Seomra Spraoi people have defined themselves as 'broader than DGN', which seems to imply that to many people DGN is a narrow organisation. Therefore DGN is failing to be an umbrella... conclusion: DGN is failing to do what it says on the tin, it should be binned and replaced by something more useful."

Currently there are other projects the WSM are involved in, such as Dissent! They will say its not a front for DGN or the WSM, but you can bet your bottom dollar that the exact same people are involved in Dissent! as were involved in Mayday 2004, maybe plus one or two new bodies. If "Dissent! Eire" put out some sort of press release or organise a conference like the Belfast people do in the next couple of weeks, they'll be in a bit of a pickle - as far as I know you cant put out anything under the Dissent! name, because nobody speaks for the network. They'll probably ressurect the DGN tag for publicity purposes, even though there is no such group anymore. They could have easily used the DGN name to organise under, but they didnt want to because they felt some people didnt like DGN. Again the WSM would hope that as a result of people working with them in Dissent!, they would join up with them.

They did pretty well with boosting their membership after Mayday 2004, so they'll probably get some new people in after the G8 in Scotland.

by Joe Mon May 23, 2005 13:09

Wow thats a lot of research you've been doing (mostly I suspect by lurking on the (public) grassroots list. Unfortunately it mostly confirms the 'little knowledge being a dangerous thing' as your factually wrong in a number of places and have mostly got the wrong end of the stick elsewhere. If I have time I'll send a longer reply over lunch as some of the actual history is worth looking at.

by Chekov - wsm - personal capacity Mon May 23, 2005 13:22

That's absolutely hilarious. You've obviously been spending years picking up tidbits of information and compiling it together into this fabulous narrative. The funny thing is that you're wildly wrong about virtually everything. If you'd only bothered to ask somebody in the WSM about any of this, you could have spared yourself an awful lot of detective work. We're quite open about what we do and why.

On another issue, what on earth does any of this have to do with Red Ink? The WSM is only mentioned in the article as an aside as another source of anarchist books in Ireland. Why does every mention of the WSM on this site seem to bring forth a flood of dodgy conspiracy theories?

by James O'Brien - WSM Mon May 23, 2005 13:27

Doesn’t have much to do with the original article but oh well…Over the last few years WSM members have had involvment, to a greater or lesser extent, in many campaigns and wider organisations. By your rather depressing logic the following were all fronts of some sort:
the bin tax campaign, the anti-war movement particularly that focussed on Shannon, Seomra Sproai, Grassroots Gatherings in Limerick, Galway and Belfast, the Sustainable Ireland Week, the London Anarchist Bookfair, the Anarkismo site, Indymedia Ireland, SIPTU, INTO, IWU (maybe we’re secretly controlling the ISN, bet ya don’t know that lads!), the Mayday mobilisation in Dublin, about four Reclaim the Streets, Residents against Racism, Anarchist-Feminist group, Red Ink (yep we supplied them with books when they were getting off the ground). There’s probably more, but that’s off the top of my head.

Contrary to your implications, other libertarians aren’t thick. They’ll suss out if we were only interested in a campaign for recrutiment and stay away from us. As anarchists we are interested in seeing as much self-activity as possible; it furthers anarchism. It contracticts our own goals to do all the work ourselves or to control a broader campaign. In any case, particularly with the libertarian oriented campaigns, e.g. Mayday, DGN, Dissent, etc I bet there’s never a central committee which we could theoretically control. There’s usually a form of direct democracy, often imperfect admittedly, so WSM members involved never have any more power than anyone else.

A simple explanation of what the WSM do and why, is that we are interested in many projects and so take part in it. It’s nice if people who share the same politics do join and I’d encourage them to. The flip side is, we’d prefer to work with those who don’t share most of our politics, including other libertarians, in broader groups and campaigns rather than have them join. Generally only those who’ve been in prolonged contact and are confident that they’ve more or less the same views do join.

Here’s a piece on how I see our role.
http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=550&language=en

by Jimmy Bond Mon May 23, 2005 13:39

send me a mail will ya, your gmail address doesn't seem to be working...

by Jack white - wsm - personal capacity Mon May 23, 2005 14:04

"Red Ink has nothing to do with the WSM whatsoever" which is true, we just ran a review of the place in our newspaper (actually they stock some of our stuff as well, but that’s no big deal). However it’s a funny comment for you to make since you earlier said that "Red Ink like the whole crusty penis pierced style left is a front for the elitist WSM."

About three years ago the WSM did go through a bit of an internal review. The result was that the organisation decided to change the format of the paper from one which was sold mostly at city centre protests and demos to one which was given away for free mostly in the areas in which we live (and at city centre protests and demos).

The Dublin Grassroots Network was founded in the squat in Leeson Street because the same people were attending meetings on anti-war stuff as well as the then upcoming EU conference, the same people (more or less) had also done stuff together to highlight the hunger strikers in Greece. At a meeting in the squat it was decided to work on both in a more coherent fashion, hence the DGN. The principles were taken from the Grassroots Gathering's. After the Mayday stuff the DGN served to organise people in Dublin to go to the anti Bush protests, later we organised the less lethal weapons stuff. Since then the DGN hasn't been up to much, not because the WSM decided to 'retire it' but because there hasn't been anything for it to really do. Seomra Spraoi and Dissent both involved people who didn't feel like they fit under the dgn banner and so it hasn't been used.

After the Mayday stuff was over the WSM did indeed have a meeting where we asked a bunch of people to join. Off the top of my head a number of the people who did join were involved in the DGN mayday stuff, though most of them were anarchists for some time and were familiar with the WSM long before the DGN. Whether or not DGN finishes up depends on whether or not people want to use it / put effort into it. The need for Seomra Spraoi / Dissent to exist outside of it maybe means that it’s reached the end of its shelf life. That said I think that there'll continue to be broad libertarian campaigns in Dublin no matter what name is used.

Anyway this has all been gone over before and explaining everything now won't stop you posting this kind of crap again in the future. In fairness I don't see how you expect your comments to be taken seriously - you've obviously been lurking on email lists and statements like "the founding principles of DGN were written privately by the WSM and not discussed through meetings" imply that either:
a) You’re a cop and have been bugging meetings (highly unlikely)
b) You have mysterious telepathic powers, in which case you should stop wasting your time here and go into show business instead (highly unlikely)
Or
c) That you’re just talking shite, and can't even do that convincingly

by bookworm Mon May 23, 2005 14:41

There was an anarchist bookshop in Marlborough Street in the early to mid eighties. It was in a windowless room upstairs over a shop

by Anthony Mon May 23, 2005 14:42

"the founding principles of DGN were written privately by the WSM and not discussed through meetings"

The above statement is completely untrue. At the meeting in Leeson St., where the idea of DGN as an umbrella group for libertarian organisations and activities in Dublin was proposed in early 2004, I and one other non-WSM member argued against the adoption of the statement of principles as it was proposed and after a half-hour discussion, a compromise in the wording was reached which everyone was happy with.


To bring this comment back to on topic, I'm delighted to see that Red Ink are still going strong. I had my doubts as to whether there was enough demand in Dublin for the venture to break even. It's heartening and encouraging to have such doubts disproved. I also know that a few visitors to Dublin found it to be a great starting point for getting to know about what's happening in Dublin. (I must drop in again soon and suggest that they stock more comics.) I wish Red Ink all the best for the future.

by Joe - WSM (per cap) Mon May 23, 2005 15:34

So where to start ...

Well WSM watcher has been stalking us for many years now and has obviously put in some hard work. But he's trying to guess what the land looks like from a couple of montains tops that penetrate the cloud and as a result he has produced a rather misleading map.

I can't place the supposed quote from what is claimed to be an internal document but on the face of things it is not that outrageous. We have regular internal discussions on how the organisation is developing and unlike many left groups these are very frank and don't go for the 'one more step comrades' approach where a leadership tries to hype the membership into more intense activity. It would have been quite ridiculous for an organistion of 10 or so people to imagine it had a base in the class - indeed I consider it ridiculous when organisations that only have 60 or so real members come out with such delusions.

It should be said that such internal documents though are contributions to debates from individual members or sometimes groups of individuals. We don't have secret internal policy - all our actual positions are to be found at http://struggle.ws/wsm/positions.html [Annoyingly the Struggle site is down at the moment so you can't actually access the WSM section of it - google 'WSM' and 'positions' though and you can access it through the google cache.]

So it's important to realise what some internal documents suggests may not be the same as what actually becomes the position based on the various documents and contributuons put forward in the course of a debate. Again unlike most left groups we have very real internal debates that can be quite long running - so different discussion documents can say some very different things from each other.

As it happens in Dublin we are engaged in such a process at the moment. My personal contribution included the following summary of where I would have seen us two years ago "Our other main experience of intervention was around workplace or neighborhood struggles. These were quite different as they involved work that was based around where our members lived or worked. This activity was therefore somewhat random - based as it was on where our tiny number of members happened to be at any one time. This also meant that members work in these areas tended to be done in isolation as we often only had one member in any given workplace or neighborhood. Other members could come in and give a hand out leafletting but that was pretty much it. And because we had so few members there was little or no opportunity for co-ordination between different areas or different workplaces"

Or in other words "we have no basis* in the class" (* I presume basis should be base although the proofreading mistake may well be in the original). A base in that context might mean in a given estate (not district) or workplace you'd have an organisation with maybe a dozen active members over a period of years. As far as I know no organisation on the far left has this anywhere in the country.

At this point it is also a good idea to point out that when we use the term working class we don't mean it in the sociology defined fashion most of the left seems to use nowadays - we mean pretty much all those who work for an employer in order to make ends meet, and all those dependant on that wage, and all those on the dole.

Anyway moving along.

The core idea here seems to be that the conclusion of our debate was the decision to get involved in 'lifestyle anarchism'. This actually is way off although I can see how the stalker formed this guess from the little knowledge he has gleaned from lurking on lists and talking to some of the people we work with. But a simple indication is that at the same time we switched to distributing 6,000 issues of Workers Solidarity door to door where we lived - not a very 'lifestylist' approach.

First off we have to deconstruct what the stalker might mean by 'lifestyle anarchism' - this is a term we tend to avoid as its use tends to throw our more heat then light but I'd guess the author is thinking of the punk/squatter mileu on the one hand and of the radical environmentalists on the other. Here though our stalker has made the fundamental mistake of presuming that the way a trotskyist party approaches this sort of question is the same anarchists would use. He makes this mistake again and again on his indymedia contributions which is why he is so easy to spot even when he pretends to be an anarchist.

By this I mean that the author is presuming we asked the question 'how do we recruit punks' and answered this by saying 'we need to invent activity that punks will like to get involved with'. {Sorry for picking on the punks here but you are everybodys favourite sterotype so its just a handy shorthand).

This of course is pretty much how trots function but it doesn't actually make any sense for an anarchist organisation. After all if you are an organisation which the members really self-manage then what is the use of tricking people into joining on false pretences? If your succesful then your organisation becomes the average of that new membership which means that the organistion actually becomes what you were pretending it to be. It's a method that ONLY works if you have a leadership/management in the back room that makes the real decisions. That is the way all trot groups work which is why trots like our stalker friend have such problems realising that this simply doesn't work for anarchists.

Parts of the left had great difficulty relating to the emerging 'anti-capitalist movement'. Pretty much because like the stalker they see it as as composed of 'lifestylists'. So I'm guessing here that what the stalker means by ''lifestyle anarchism' is our involvement in that movement.

The major problem though is that our actual involvement goes back to before it came into existence in Ireland. Back in the dark days of the 1990's when our stalker was still in school a WSM member was one of the two Irish people to attend the 'Intercontinental Gathering for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism' held by the Zapatistas in Chiapas Mexico. You'll find a rather long account of what transpired at http://struggle.ws/andrew/encounter1_report.html

In terms of the anti-capitalist movement this is one place it emerged from, another was the 1997 Europen march against Unemployment which ended in Amsterdam - again one of us was at this. There was also the Bradford meeting of 1997/8 which was to lay some of the foundations for J18 in London - and again we were there. In Ireland with the Irish Mexico Group we had attempted to prematurely create the movement - we were part of the (tiny) protest against the last EU summit and took part in an unsuccesful proto grassroots gathering in Dublin around 1997 (In the Vietmanese centre in Hardwick st if I remember correctly).

None of this was secret, not only did we write about such events in our paper but the Red and Black Revolution article 'Organising against Capitalism' even began the process of making the argument to a movement that did not yet exist of the need to go further in organisational terms. The preface written in late 1996 summarises much of what I've outlined "Over the last few years I have taken part in many forums which have discussed the collapse of the left, the changes in capitalism and the need for a new opposition. Not all of these have been exclusively anarchist, I attended the 'Intercontinental Encounter for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism' organised by the Zapatistas in Chiapas in the summer of 1996 for instance, but most have been held by anarchists in Britain or Ireland. A common feature of these events is a recognition that everything has changed in the last decade, that many of yesterday's answers are discredited today and that there is a need for the construction of a new movement. Such discussions cannot remain on the theoretical level, we must start to put these ideas into practice in building a new anti-capitalist movement."
http://struggle.ws/rbr/rbr3_organise.html

There is lots more to be detailed on this but this summary should show that we were trying to build the anti-capitalist movement long before there was anyone to recruit from it.

The real issue you see was (and is) the bankruptcy of the 'old left'. Our discussions of the last decade have seldom centered around 'how can we get more people to join' but again and again they have returned to 'how do we break the mould of the way the left does stuff'. For a large number of people that bankruptcy was clearly demonstrated by two events in recent years
March 1st 2003 - when the old left lined up with liberals to have hysterics about a plan to tear down a bit of fence.
May 1st 2004 - when the old left led a march into a pen outside a train station in the midst of a massive and sustained anti-anarchist red scare.

The conspiracy - if it exists - has been to align oursleves with and help organise those who want to kick over the apple cart of the dead end tradition of leninist practise in this country. Some of those we have found ourselves with have been punks, others have been environmentalists and to our own surprise some have even turned out to be marxists. But when our stalker thinks this is all about recruitment he is not seeing the wood for the trees. What we are contributing towards is much. much bigger than the question of whether we get five or ten new members next year.

I see that as I have been preparing this long winded repsponse some of my comrades have come back on some of the other questions, including the actual origins of DGN. So I don't need to repeat that.

I will add though that the catalyist for the emergence of a real anti-capitalist movement here was surprizingly enough the SWP and Globalise Resistance. Their cack handed attempts to retain control of GR and use it for recruitment purposes in the pre-Genoa period had the effect of motivating all those pissed off with them to create an alternative. The Grassroots Gathering principles (which DGN also used) were born not out of a WSM meeting but out of a meeting of individuals from half a dozen organisations. A fragmentary history of the early gatherings can be found at http://grassrootsgathering.freeservers.com/previous.htm

Skipping ahead to the mention of Dissent. The idea that Dissent originated as a WSM front is perhaps the most inaccurate of your claims. It would be more accurate to say that disagreements within the libertarian movement in Dublin around the events of Mayday meant that those who initated Dissent would not have done so through DGN. That is also part of the context of the suggestion that DGN may have had its day. After all there is little purpose in a libertarian network that fails to network libertarians. Personally I've no attachement to any particular name so I'm quite happy to be involved in Dissent.

I'd hope that in the aftermath of the G8 we will manage to create a libertarian network for Dublin that all can be happy with. The name really doesn't matter.

Oh - and Red Ink do have a very good stock of anarchist books - I end up buying a couple every time I'm in there.

by Cheeky Monkey Mon May 23, 2005 15:54

"A base in that context might mean in a given estate (not district) or workplace you'd have an organisation with maybe a dozen active members over a period of years. As far as I know no organisation on the far left has this anywhere in the country."

The two SP candidates in the last locals both happen to live there.

by Joe Mon May 23, 2005 16:14

The short lived Garden of Delight (1997) would also qualify as at least a libertarian bookshop

"What is GoD

The Garden of Delight beyond being a cafe and book shop is an example. We function without a boss or a profit motive, everyone working here is unpaid. We exist as a self-managed space or centre, the book shop and cafe provide an anchor on which space and funds are provided for cultural, political and social projects that might not otherwise happen.

The space is not intended to be passive and reproducing the values of a sick society but rather radical and based on action. It is intended to bring different people together and to be open to other organisations that operate in a similar fashion, particularly those in the local community. It arose not as a set of abstract ideas but because a space became available to fulfil a need many people already felt. The exact use of this space is an area for discussion and experimentation with and between those who are creating and working in it.

Our project is also an experiment, in working together for a greater good, in maximising potential, in the breaking of new ground. The success of our project will be determined in the long term by its existence in the collective memory, in the short term by its ability to attract and inspire others. We want the challenge of this space and its alternative way of organisation (self-management against leaders/bosses) and motivation (solidarity against greed/charity) to say ENOUGH! to those who tell us that there is no alternative to hierarchy and exploitation."

...

"It was raided by armed police after a banner declaring the EU to be the 4th Reich was hung on the roof during the [1997] European summit. We saw many other police visits, normally in response to parties that went on late into the night, on the night GoD closed no less then two of the collective members and two international visitors were arrested. GoD is dead but like a shooting star it led a short but brilliant life and will be missed."

by Steve S. Mon May 23, 2005 17:06

There is a smallish semi-anarchisty subculture around things like the punk scene in Dublin. There are two broad reasons why anyone would expect Dublin's only anarchist organisation to link up with that.

Firstly, as Joe outlines, because they would like to create an alternative centre of gravity on the left in the city, away from the much bigger Marxist groups. The WSM aren't now and never have been capable of achieving that on their own, so allies are needed. You can view this in a more or less cynical way but it's certainly a factor.

How far it is likely to work is an open question, but to the extent that it does it is likely that the people it will inconvenience will primarily be the SWP. A large part of the SWP's way of operating has been to declare the existence of a campaign and then hope to push everyone else into these preexisting structures. Having a rival campaign forces them into a competition which they may or may not win on any particular issue and which either way forces them to make a political case for their option. There is also the uncomfortable fact that the kind of issues this slightly broader anarchisty/libertarian/whatever movement are attracted to are most often the kind of things that the SWP likes to take a lead on - for example summit protests.

The other basic reason is that we are talking about people who are likely to be a lot more open to class struggle anarchist arguments than most people are at the moment. A small organisation focusing part or all of its attention on the people currently most open to its arguments makes perfect sense both in terms of creating a stronger class struggle anarchist movement generally and in terms of strengthening the WSM itself. Again that's something which can be viewed in a more or less cynical light.

Generally, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with any of the above. The WSM is a very small political organisation with strategies and ideas it wants to see being taken up by larger numbers of people. If they didn't want that they wouldn't bother producing their publications or organising in the first place.

by slugface Mon May 23, 2005 20:54

well this is all very interesting..
I doubt if anyone's still reading but I'll throw my oar in aswell>> aside from the recruitment which the organisation seeks, they have no grasp on environmental issues at all. If a huge factory farm / pick-your-scumbag-comany was to announce closure and the workers there went on strike or whatever, the WSM would back always the JOBS over the country/environment. Ask them. They have also said at public meetings/speechgivings that everyone (on earth) should be able to have all the trappings of western society, like VCRs and so on, and in an anarchist society they all could if they want them. Plainly nonsense (but populist nonsense), and reinforces the fantasy that we -here in Ireland- mine+smelt+manufacture all that stuff ourselves. The WSM ignore the harsh fact that our type of society (HOWEVER it's organised) is oiled with the blood of others around the world. Hmm.. well anyway WSM bashing for the mo, they're not a bad bunch of people, it just gets up my nose how they tag their logo onto anything they're involved in for advertising/recruitment purposes. Also the environmental blackout. And so on.
But Red Ink is a good shop! and theyre not middleclass shopkeepers, just doing a good job, leave em alone>>

by James - WSM - personal capacity Tue May 24, 2005 11:00

We don’t expect everything in Ireland to be produced here. Lots of stuff will continue to be produced overseas and imported. Sharing and exchanging will be part and parcel of a communist society. And we don’t see society ending at Ireland’s shores. So, I don’t have any problem with aspiring to high standards of living for everybody on the planet. Our differences with Slugface on this spring from very differ views of science, technology, and freedom.

Slugface: “the WSM would back always the JOBS over the country/environment. Ask them.”
Well no, it would depend on the type of work and its impact on the environment. For example we’d have no problem calling for the closure of a dangerous nuclear reactor. But we’d like to see the jobs replaced with something more useful and less harmful. Instead of building missiles, factories could build trains. I suspect our version of what’s a nasty industry differs substantially from yours; as an adovocate of a hunter-gather society(?), presumably any industry is nasty in your eyes.

And no, we don’t put our logo on every campaign we’re involved in as a simple investigation would soon reveal. Check the list above and come back with the answers. When it does appear I bet it’s part of a general mention of groups and individuals involved, e.g. Libertarians Against Nice (that was obviously another front. I think we tricked the AF into suggesting it!). No special treatment for us.

Steve’s comments about us wishing to see our ideas etc taken up by large numbers of people is obviously accurate and it’s an approach remarkable only for its banality. Clearly we’d like more members so that we can do more stuff – it’s not a big deal.

by very concerned Tue May 24, 2005 12:33

Is there a remainder / out of print book / pamphlet search facility?
Is there a web site?
Is there a parcel wrapping option for presents?
{Can I just squeeze in that i used work in bookshops in the twentieth century in London, on Charing X Road, we were called booksellers in those days, and I sold Dr Who, (the 4th doctor Tom Baker) a complete set of Emma Goldman letters, and he wanted them gift-wrapped and that's the truth, strangely enough, and I've thought much on it for many years now.}
Best of Luck with it. Books are great, and independent book shops are very important. The GoD was nice, but it didn't seem (on my flying visit) to stock much.