Anti-Semitism

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sat Feb 02, 2008 14:06 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdam 0031102102055

Tony there was a Jewish man on these Blogs some time ago who was involved in Paramilitary activities I started a dialogue with him and put to him that because he was involved in UDA,UVF, he was seeking some contrition born in N.Eire and got caught up in a WAR that he never Would or Should have been involved in,he now hides, lives in the shadows,admits he was wrong,misguided,was largely uneducated and no lodestone to take his bearings on.They edited my comments and I never got back to him on this point, How can any JEW,NEGRO,or IRISH go along with anything that their own family History tells them something just aint right. Surely on this SACRED ISLE when the lights went out in EUROPE ERINS light shone for the whole of EUROPE, with St Brendan,and ST Patrick dont let that light fail,for the sick,for the poor,for the dispossessed,for the Shipwrecked,for the Negros,for the jews,for the Islamics and for all men of good will Catholic and Protestant, and that Best Beloved is what my Father Taught ME.
And he was one of the finest Irishman that God ever made,and IF he made finer he must have kept him to his HEART for HIMSELF and I,m not a Preacher !
God Bless you G.D.Flynn
O Flynn,O Flynn, O Flynn,O Flynn,O Flynn,O Flynn O Flynn
Co Mayo Connaught

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:11 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdam 0031102102055

Written of course by T.E.Lawrence,well done Tony,I,m not Jewish or Islamic,I always listen to George Galloway every Fri/Sat on talk Sport thanks for the education,I wrote many years ago that the Arabic community are now facing in Europe the same sort of things the Jews expierienced in 1935, my only critique is that ALL of the Allies were stretched for time, The stories about the Germans in World War I were for the most part UNTRUE,but were BELIEVED,the stories about the Germans in World War II were TRUE but were,nt BELIEVED. I,ve been on the Galloway show 4 times,but not about this subject,I was also in the Golan when the Yom Kippur kicked off.
God Bless you TONY,and may you always find friends,honour,and honesty among the people of Erin.
I Remain Yours Respectfully G.D.Flynn
International Republican (Hague K.der. Nederlaans)
Upsilon
Molitor
Flynn O Flynn

by Noor Aza Othman Sat Feb 02, 2008 07:19 noorazao at hotmail dot com Malaysia 00-60125394924

Brilliant article Tony. It's time that the left must approach resistance completely from new politics that is above race, religion and ultra-nationalism. Marx has long envisioned it but some left are still misguided including myself at one ignorant and unwise stage of my life, into completely understanding what Marx meant; thus distorting such politics and hence why we have the barbaric and pseudo-socialism such as Maoism, Stalinism, Pol Pot-ism and Milosevicism. However Tony, we must allow free speech because the capitalist-elite racist and fascists leaders and classes including Ahmedinejad will always use it to deny the truth and justice. Instead the left must use such fundamental human rights principle of free speech to counter-argue in a democracy; hence the intensive newly charged campaign by the true left now to discredit any form of human rights abuses including by dictators like Ahmedinejad or Islamic theocratic classes. Those anti-Semites who use Islam to denegrade the Holocaust victims wil have to be shed of their false mask of being left; but racist and fascist as what they truly are.

by Tony Greenstein - Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods Sat Feb 02, 2008 06:30 tonygreenstein at yahoo dot com 01273 565337

Anti-Zionism means opposition to a form of racism, Zionism, the ideology of a settler colonial that saw Arabs much as Whites saw Blacks in South Africa. It was no coincidence that the most avid supporters of Zionism were people like Jan Smuts, Cecil Rhodes and Joseph Chamberlain and of course Arthur Balfour, the Home Secretary who introduced the 1905 Aliens Act preventing Jewish refugees from pogroms in Czarist Russia coming here but who was happy to sponsor the Zionist settlement in Palestine by issuing the 1917 Balfour Declaration.

Zionism is and always has been racist from its beginnings. And what gave it its strength was anti-Semitism. That is why throughout history anti-Semitism and Zionism held hands together. Both agreed that Jews did not belong outside Palestine. But it was the advent of the Nazi regime and fascism in much of Europe that really helped propel Zionism from a probably failed attempt at statehood to victory. Between 1933 and 1936 something like 150,000 German Jews came to Palestine. A further 100,000+ came from 1936 to 1945. This represented a doubling and then a further increase by half of Palestine’s Jewish immigrants.

Why do I emphasise this? Because those who resort to anti-Semitism and holocaust denial today are simply doing the work of Zionism for it. Those who play with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are no friends of the Palestinians. When President Ahmedinajad of Iran played with the idea of holocaust denial it didn’t help one Palestinian but it did excite plenty of fascists. Ahmedinajad believes that since Israel justifies its existence through the holocaust then if one can ‘prove’ there was no holocaust then Israel has no right to exist!

There is just one problem with this. The Holocaust occurred, the proof is absolute and total, and the more supporters of Palestinians associate, if only by default, with those who question or deny the monstrous extermination of millions of people, Jewish and non-Jewish, the more they aid Zionism.

I can understand why an inhabitant of Gaza says s/he hates the Jews. All the crimes committed against these people are committed in their name. People in Ireland also became anti-Protestant after particular acts of savagery or anti-White but this was not a political strategy but an understandable reaction. But the Republican and Anti-Apartheid movements understood that anti-racism not racism was the way ahead. And it is regrettable that Hamas, which is a political organisation, has not got rid of some of the nonsense in their charter, because it harms Palestinians not Jews. But what is termed Arab ‘anti-Semitism’ is a mere reflection in the water. Anti-Semitism does not have nor has it ever had a social or economic base in the Arab East. That is the privilege of Europe.

If a few Muslims are giving out holocaust denial material here that is wrong and also stupid and if it is al Muhajiroun then it is no surprise. Because they are effectively and Islamic fascist group.

I don’t buy into this ‘free speech’ argument at all. Holocaust denial like all forms of racism are designed to put some people down and literally in fear of their lives. It originates from neo-Nazi ideologues who had a very clear purpose, to repeat that which they denied. One lesson from fascism is that one doesn’t accord it ‘free speech’ because free speech for fascists can become death for their victims.

And no, it is no surprise that Zionists in parts of Europe join hand with anti-Muslim racists. Jews today are white and do not suffer state racism.

Incidentally Norman Finkelstein’s Holocaust Industry is path-breaking. Anyone who follows the Zionist press will know that there have been a series of demonstrations and protests by holocaust survivors demanding they get the reparations that were given on their behalf. Instead Zionist organisations like the Jewish Claims Conference have pocketed the proceeds in a disgusting mixture of cronyism and corruption. Rabbi Israel Singer was sacked as CEO last year from the JCC having trousered $2m in ‘expenses’ over 3 years.

But what is happening on Indymedia UK is very worrying. People who consider themselves anarchists etc. are posting articles by Gilad Atzmon, someone who is deeply anti-Semitic and who can now be considered in the camp of holocaust denial whilst at the same time those who are opposed to his politics have their posts hidden.

Indymedia internationally needs to clean up its act and pressure needs to be brought on Indymedia UK to get rid of its conspiracy theorists and loony tunes.

Tony

by Gaillimhed Tue Nov 11, 2003 18:14

Interesting to see jewish groups (albeit right wing extremists and certainly not representative of the mainstream) in GERMANY were siding with Neo-nazi groups -in attacks against Muslims earlier this year. (I was not able to dig out the article, sorry)
Now theres a bit of Post-modern madness for you.

Sure its a funny old world!

by David C. Mon Nov 10, 2003 22:47

Right wing nuts should absolutely be free to give out Holocaust denial leaflets, as should their flat-earth and UFO brethern. Any censorship of fringe/nutty ideas, whether by Moslem, Christian or Jewish nuts, is a problem and should be abhored. If certain lefties disagree then I think they are misguided.

But this is a side issue. The real issue is the cynical and sociopathic use of the Jewish holocaust by Israeli likudniks to hide land theft and probably genocide. Paddy might not have equated anti-zionism with anti-semitism, but many, many cynical zionists do. They use their religion and the horror of the Jewish holocaust to cover up and to enable systematic ethnic cleansing and land theft at best and genocide at worst.

Finkelstein and Novik mainly deal with the zionism associated with the founding of Israel proper, which is now a settled fact and arguably an pragmaticaly acceptable result of the madness of WW2. But the 'greater Israel' zionists who's ruthless plan for the theft of the West bank and Gaza are taking that cynicism to new levels. These people are monsters and the spotlight of truth should be shone upon them till they either slink away or shrivel up and die.

Never again...

by Paddy Crerand Mon Nov 10, 2003 21:52

The name of the organisation is Al-Muhajiroun, based in London and apparently they leaflet every Saturday. Another leaflet, was entitled 'Communism is dead, Islam is the alternative.' I never used the term 'headbanger' and I also never equated anti-zionism with anti-semitism. However the language used by Josh is hysterical, and from my point of view would point to the fact that the left is pretty poor on this issue. No right wing group would be able to give out Holocaust denial leaflets - if a Muslim group does it you have no shortage of people lining up to explain it and also to use the term holocaust in relation to every massacre that has ever happened. I have read Finkelstein's book, he makes some good points but I think Peter Novik's 'The Holocaust and Collective Memory'is beter. He looks at how Zionists have used the memory of the Holocaust, but also understands that it is a huge feature of Jewish life. Look at the impact of the famine on Irish nationalism for instance; now the holocaust was only over 50 years ago, starting in a country where Jews were assimilated and not particularly disliked. By the way the Nazis did not particulrly stress that the Jews had too much wealth (as the Al-Muhajiroun leaflet states)- they stressed that they were potential communists and subversives. My point is that supporters of the Palestinians iqnore the fact that groups such as Hamas believe not just in a free Palestine but in a conspiracy theory, which they admit is based on the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' a forgery concocted to justify massacres in Russia! Palestinian kids learn that the holocaust was brought on the Jews by their own actions. Perhaps its understandable that teenagers being shot by Isreali soldiers would think this, but not Irish lefties. (I don't have net access everyday, hence my delay in replying. )

by David C, Mon Nov 10, 2003 01:36

Denying that the Jewish holocaust occured is obviously factually wrong, just as is denying the Cambodian, Rawandan, Armenian, American Indian or the many other multi-million-person holocausts that have occured. And so people who deny the Jewish holocaust tend to be a very small number of isolated fringe idiots who are as harmless as flat-earthers or UFO nuts.

But to deliberately equate anti-zionism with anti-semitism is morally wrong, and is a key part of a professionaly-managed program of propaganda and manipulation designed to cover a great evil. All human holocausts have been caused by self-rightous ideological minorities who were prepared to do ANYTHING to bend the world to their will. The Israeli Likudniks are a classic example of such a group.

Four million Palestinians are in grave danger of another human holocaust, and anyone paying any attention to the basic facts of the situation in palestine would have trouble denying that...

by - Sun Nov 09, 2003 20:16

Holocaust denial, historical manipulation, Muslim attitudes, and the issue of anti-zionism versus anti-semitism are the most contentious issues for the IMC's in Europe. Indymedia France collapsed, so far as I know, after internal disputes on these issues. Indy Belgium and Indy Netherlands might be heading that way.

Now apparently, Indymedia UK is starting to have similar problems. This post was hidden today, almost as soon as it was posted

Jewish Council: "Ban immigration"
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/11/280115.html

It's hard to guess why, and it is impossible to get answers to this question on Indymedia itself, since they delete post questionning their policies. If they remove it entirely, I might post it here.

by Josh Sun Nov 09, 2003 14:02

Who are you headbangers with this bogus "Holocaust denial" conspiracy aimed at Muslims.

Did you get a picture of the "Muslim Headbangers"?

Do you have one of the leaflets being distributed by these "Muslim fundamentalists"? Or indeed are you the Fundamental headbangers manipulating the media against Muslims????

Read Norman Finkelsteins "The Holocaust Industry" if you want to know the perspective of two Auschwitz survivors (his parents) of the present "Holocaust industry" which is a historical concoction in support of moral justification for the acts of the state of Israel, and indeed a true industry for the criminal gangs who extort billions from European nations and banks based on a distortion of the actual mass murders carried out by the Nazis on Jews , Communists, Homosexuals, Russians, Catholics and many others.

A recent European wide pole showed 59% of Europe recognise Israel is the greatest threat to world peace so it seems some of the myths created by hoodlums and ciminals like Rabbi Israel Singer and Abel Foxmann are crumbling in the face of actual historical research being carried out by Jew historians like Finklestein and others.

This anti-Islamic crap is the real racism . You are part of the Crusade that seeks to target Muslims and persecute them just as poor jews were thrown to the Nazis while their rich Jewish brothers made fortunes from the war and the Nazi regime.

Your propaganda is sickening. Zionist Propaganda? Or Christian? Or just plain Imperialist?

by Palmiro Togliatti Sat Nov 08, 2003 22:56

presumably someone would still have to notice it and publish a newswire article on it first, which is what you've just done. Why assume that people on Indymedia do view holocaust denial by Islamist headbangers any differently from how they view the same behaviour by neo-nazis?