Protest at Ireland v Israel match as pro-Palestinian Activists Love Football and Hate Apartheid

by Unlimited ignorance detector Sun Sep 05, 2010 23:18

The photo of the sign "Sport against racism" really sums up this whole event and the hypocracy of Israel and its supporters and the Irish people who are prepared to turn a blind eye. I dont know if Irish people do it out of ignorance about what Israel have done or perhaps they are just people who cant stand up and confront terror states and their representatives?
In the information age we live in I dont think ignorance is an excuse so it must be a deliberate looking the other way and ignoring of the facts that make some Irish people think they can support any representative of Israel and still maintain a clean conscience - they are utterly deluded in this fabricated reality though!

You are either informed or naive

If you arent informed then shut up and get informed and lets stop taking the piss here.

A womens football team from Israel represents Israel. End of story. Its not about football or ladies or sport it is about do we recognise the terror state of Israel as an entity we should be supporting or hosting or offering any recognition or hospitality to.

They should be shunned and their disgraceful abuse of human rights and the state organised murder of people using forged Irish passports should be what motivates and informs our reaction to their pathetic little PR/guilt cleansing excercises like this one

by Anti-Semanticism Tue Aug 31, 2010 20:00

After the second Intifada started on 29 September 2000, the first terrorist bombing inside Israel occurred only on 22 November, by which time Israeli forces had killed more than 230 Palestinians, including 80 children, and injured more than 9,000. So it is wrong to say, as the NYT consistently does, that Palestinians started the killing of civilians.

Between September 2000 and November 2006, the Israelis killed 4,032 Palestinians, including 808 children. Palestinians killed 1,017 Israelis, including 119 children. The media tended to depict Palestinian violence as the main source of violence in the conflict.

Amnesty International, reported that after Israeli soldiers killed a 13-year old Palestinian girl, their commander said, "Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed." He was tried, but acquitted of all charges. After Israeli soldiers shot an unarmed 13-year old Palestinian boy in the back, the Guardian, reported, "the army said the boys planned to throw rocks at Israeli cars, which the military defines as terrorism." There was no investigation or trial.

it appears that Israel's rules of engagement permit Israeli soldiers to shoot and kill Palestinian children who wander toward the separation barrier, vandalize the separation barrier, throw stones, think about throwing stones, ride in taxicabs, or run away from Israeli soldiers.

In February 2005, Hamas called a ceasefire. But between September 2005 and June 2006, Israeli forces fired 7,700 shells into Gaza and conducted daily air strikes. In June 2006, in five distinct attacks on Gaza, they killed 36 Palestinians. On 25 June, they captured two Palestinians

During the following five-month war, Israeli forces killed at least 322 Palestinians, including 80 children and 35 women, and wounded 1,200; only one Israeli soldier was killed, accidentally by Israeli fire. Israeli forces fired 15,000 artillery shells (155 mm high-explosive projectiles) into Gaza, killing 49 Palestinians; Palestinians had fired 1,700 homemade Qassam rockets into Israel, killing no Israelis. Curiously the western media tended to urge Hamas, not Israel, to `renounce violence' and demanded that the Palestinians, not the Israelis, halt their rocket attacks.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+June+9+Gaza+Beach+Exp...46563

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PT...fox-a

could you kindly quit with the blatant mis-representation of the situation and give the lies a rest, Hasbara-Bot #F8U6C9K5Y3O9U (a.k.a 'Tim Johnson' ), cos you ain't fooling no one with that crap

by Hu Bris Tue Aug 31, 2010 18:09

the lack of alternatives is just a failure of imagination, OD.

Here's one: isolate Hamas. We achieve this by granting statehood to the West Bank under control of the PA. Gazans are sick of Hamas tactics and Hamas are failing at governing the region. This move shows that their tactics have not achieved any results and have in fact made peace less likely, as well as encouraging support for Abbas.
Hamas are currently blaming their failures on Israel, but they could no longer do this is the West Bank became entirely self-governing.
Abbas and the Israelis meet next week. It is not just a nice gesture, but a responsibility of all of us to get behind the talks.

shalom and salaam.

the lack of any semblance of truth in the above statement by Hasbara-Bot #F8U6C9K5Y3O9U (a.k.a 'Tim Johnson' ) is just the usual manifestation of lack of basic honesty and basic human decency common to all the racist supporters of the racist Zionist-Entity known as 'Israel' - it is something we have all come to know and love so well over time

This notion which these detestable Zio-racists try to propagate - that the Zio-racist bloodlust is all the fault of Hamas, and if only Gazans would behave like the 'good' Palestinians in the West Bank then everything would be A.Okay - does not even manage to withstand even the mildest scrutiny

If Hamas, rather than Zio-racist bloodlust, is the problem then that should be easy to prove by simply examining casualty lists. If the ridiculous 'logic' promulgated by Hasbara-Bot #F8U6C9K5Y3O9U (a.k.a 'Tim Johnson' ) had any merit he would be able to demonstrate it using evidence - but it doesn't so he of course has not

Lets take a look-see at the figures - unlike Hasbara-Bot #F8U6C9K5Y3O9U (a.k.a 'Tim Johnson' ) the figures are not racist so therefore we can presume they won't lie to us at each and every opportunity (unlike Hasbara-Bot #F8U6C9K5Y3O9U (a.k.a 'Tim Johnson' )

B'Tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, maintains an excellent, comprehensive database of Palestinian and Israeli casualties of bombings, attacks and other violence in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

As can easily be seen from the data - it is the Israelis who are responsible for the vast majority of the violence - it's almost as if they are pathologically incapable of behaving peacefully.

a quick look at their database of casualties produced the following figures:

Since Jan 2009:
Palestinian children killed by Israeli security forces :

Gaza- 8
W Bank - (where there is NO HAMAS, NO ROCKETS etc) 7
Total - 15

Palestinians killed during the course of an assassination/murder killing:

Gaza- 2

Completely innocent Palestinians who did not take part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces (not including the targets of assassination/murder killings):

Gaza - 16
West Bank (where there is NO HAMAS, NO ROCKETS etc) - 12
Total - 28

Palestinians who were killed by Israeli security forces and it is not known if they were taking part in the hostilities [Probably completely innocent] :

Gaza - 5
West Bank (where there is NO HAMAS, NO ROCKETS etc) - 7
Total - 12

Totals

Gaza - 31
West Bank (where there is NO HAMAS, NO ROCKETS etc) - 26
TOTAL - 57

Since Jan 19 2009:

Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians- 3
Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians- 4

Compare with [same Timeframe]:

Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces - 78
Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians - 2

All figures sourced on Saturday July 31st, 2010, from : http://www.btselem.org/english/Statistics/Casualties.asp

As can easily be seen from the data - it matters not to the Zio-racists whether rockets are being fired or whether Hamas is in power as the figures for the West bank, which is controlled not by Hamas but by the corrupt Israeli-puppet Mohammad Abbas's P.A, and from where NO rockets emanate are almost identical and in some cases exceed those for Gaza

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Aug 30, 2010 20:33

But it still needs to be earthed. Otherwise it degenerates into fantasy.

Support Abbas to beat Hamas?
You forget how Hamas was promoted when it suited to undermine the PA(as Osama was when it suited).It was actually spelt USama up to 9/11, while he was still ' a heroic freedom fighter against the godless invaders'.

Hamas are currently blaming their failures on Israel?

Well, thank the IDF for facilitating that spin.

by Tim Johnston Mon Aug 30, 2010 20:02

the lack of alternatives is just a failure of imagination, OD.

Here's one: isolate Hamas. We achieve this by granting statehood to the West Bank under control of the PA. Gazans are sick of Hamas tactics and Hamas are failing at governing the region. This move shows that their tactics have not achieved any results and have in fact made peace less likely, as well as encouraging support for Abbas.
Hamas are currently blaming their failures on Israel, but they could no longer do this is the West Bank became entirely self-governing.
Abbas and the Israelis meet next week. It is not just a nice gesture, but a responsibility of all of us to get behind the talks.

shalom and salaam.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:58

You will see that I wrote that the 80% are the centre ground, NOT the hard-line boneheaded Zionists. It only takes a small minority of committed fanatics, Nazi, neo-con, national front, Opus Dei or verkrampte racists to manage the malleable middle ground in their chosen direction.
We are emerging here into the wreckage of a twenty-five year hijack of our politics by a committed cadre of neo-con free-marketeering manipulators and their fellow-sharetraders in our media(including the publicly owned)and the forecast aint pretty. The irony being its pure Leninism in execution.
The AIPAC lobby are locked on Israel Inc, just as Ireland Inc has most of our(and self-proclaimed socialists are in similar proportion) electorate nodding in Homeric (Doh...) agreement. And their 'clout' stems from accumulated capital.
And I dont so much see Israel as being 'attacked', as being resisted. I imagine the Israeli people would not countenancea more overt ethnic cleansing than the slow attrition being practised presently, any more than the ordinary decent Brit would have condoned the often voiced opinion that Ulster should be flushed clean of its Irish nationalists.
Totally ended the occupation of Gaza?
Pulled out a few settlements. Be honest.Israel has the place locked down tighter than any Bantustan in South Africa ever was, and comparisons to the treatment of Jews in Warsaw are not too far off the mark.
It took the Nazis a while to decide that the last resort was the Final Solution. Many other possibilities were considered before the light went green.
Do you doubt for a moment that the IDF have 'contingency' plans for just the scenario you mapped for the West bank?
Thats why the blockade must be broken, and Israeli goods and trade targeted. In the absence of alternatives it seems our only resort.
Unless you have other suggestions, besides accepting a dictated victors 'peace'.

by Mike Novack Sun Aug 29, 2010 21:26

No way. It is NOT true that 80% of the "Zionists" are of the "river to the sea" persuasion. Probably under 20%.

"I would think, number wise, that the preponderance of Israelis and racist sympathisers from the EDL to the neo-con/AIPAC cohort of opinion for eradication lies on the side of Zion."

Nor is AIPAP in any way, shape, or form "neo-con". You totally misunderstand from whence comes their political clout. It is precisely because compared to their being pro-Israel they don't give two hoots whether the capitalists or the socialists win THEIR fight. (NOTE -- there really isn't any more than a miniscule socialist presence over here, but since the economic right here considers anybody to the left of a conservative Democrat to be "socialist" I'll use that term anyway).

That's the way our system of democracy is supposed to work. It didn't evolve from a system intended to be clear what cabinet was "responsible" (so the monarch knew whom to blame, etc.). Our system is designed so that minority interests IF they are willing to do "log rolling" can get some of what they want. Think of it as social negotiation. All of our "special interest" groups can do this and their influence can be much greater than you would otherwise imagine by their size. In other words, a solid interest group of 2-3% can get its way (if not DIRECTLY opposed by a counterbalancing interest) if willing to "co-operate" but one of even 10-15% could be marginalized if unwilling to compromise on OTHER issues. The more issues you have, the weaker your clout on any one of them.

You may be looking at this wrong, at least consider that. If they wanted to "erradicate" Palestinians the easiest way would be to completely end the occupation of the West Bank, let the new Palestinian state organize and arm itself as best it could, and then when they were attacked across the border (and do you doubt that they would be?) kill vast numbers in the resulting war. I could be wrong, but I believe this is the reason that the "dove" Israelis aren't willing to move forward without a settlement. They don't WANT to kill vast numbers of Palestinians. This ISN'T just in the hands of the Israelis. Simply totally ending occupation (of the West Bank -- they HAVE totally ended occupation of Gaza) does not result in a viable Palestinian state. Without a settlement you have a CLOSED BORDER. Right now in spite of severe restrictions most supplies are coming in via Israel. There is NO "right" to this is there is no occupation (Israel would not be surrounding either part of the Palestinian state).

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Aug 29, 2010 18:31

'..........too many Palestinians not willing to accept mutual survival.'

I would think, number wise, that the preponderance of Israelis and racist sympathisers from the EDL to the neo-con/AIPAC cohort of opinion for eradication lies on the side of Zion.
And that lobby has the 80% centre ground dazzled in its hasbara-polished headlines.
And when you say the jews weren't in a position to make that choice, you omit the fact in the air for a while was that the whole agenda was being driven by the interests of Britain, France and, primarily, the US.

And i think raising the issue in any forum in a non-violent way is valid, and necessary.

by Mike Novack Sun Aug 29, 2010 17:32

I understand your position, that people SHOULD prefer to fight for their class interests (regardless of the cost to their tribal interests). But you need to understand that ultimately the people involved get to make that choice and just maybe they prefer to fight for their tribal interests regardless of the cost to their class interests (at least in the short run).

THEY (and not you) get to decide what is most important to themselves.

And the problem ISN'T just that some of the Jews want "from the river to the sea". We got to where we are today because back in 1947 the Palestinians chose that "all or nothing" (however much they might have wanted war for all rather than acceptance of the Partition, the Jews weren't in a political position to make that choice). And just like it was immediately followiing the Nabka (when they COULD have gotten better terms and at the very least, independent statehood) this continues to the prestent day where ALSO there are too many Palestinians not willing to accept mutual survival.

by George Hill Sat Aug 28, 2010 15:01

I could use the same logic back to you and mount protests against NAMA, health cuts, etc. on all Irish soccer matches:

"The logic is that Ireland is a democracy. As a matter of fact, with their system of proportional representation with minimal threshhold one could possibly argue "too democratic" (all the "kook" factions get a say). The point is that the "government" is the compromise that comes out of that sort of political system. It's not something being imposed upon ordinary Irish from outside. "

Of course things like big money donations, a corporate media and whipped up hysteria on the national question doesn't influence votes?

The other point you make is about the very existance of Israel. Yes, Israeli people do want to continue to have Israel. That's their national identiy and their country. It's not mutually exclusive. You can have both Israeli and Palestinian people haivng a peaceful existance together. What do you want to do with the millions of Israeli people living there now? Make them the new oppressed group? You need to address genuine concerns of Israelis about elements that want Palestine "from the river to the sea". The problem is the Israeli government not the Israeli people. You just don't see this division I guess! The more you see all Israelis as the problem the more their political leaders can divide ordinary Israelis from ordinary Palestinians.

I don't write off any working class. The Israeli working class are oppressed by the Israeli government also, certainly not at the same way as the Palestinians of course. There are strikes in Israel, there is low pay and poverty. If you really want to free the Palestinian people you need to build alliances with Israeli working class and not picket their football games.

by Kay Sat Aug 28, 2010 14:15

So is politicians intimidating young girls. That's sick.

by Mike Novack Sat Aug 28, 2010 13:42

(even though on the other side)

The logic is that Israel is a democracy. As a matter of fact, with their system of proportional representation with minimal threshhold one could possibly argue "too democratic" (all the "kook" factions get a say).

The point is that the "government" is the compromise that comes out of that sort of political system. It's not something being imposed upon ordinary Israelis from outside. Might seem strange to you but very few Israelis are in favor of a peace achieved by their non-existence.

It is not unreasonable to assume that all of the Israeli footballers are in favor of their continued existence and that makes the "enemy" with regard to this issue.

by George Hill Sat Aug 28, 2010 13:01

What have Israeli football ever done to oppress the Palestinian people? Nothing! We should build more links with ordinary Israelis and not have this approach. The Israeli government is no friend of the Israeli people either. Same logic would have the Irish people and their sports organisations attacked for FF policies.

by Marion - Bray Watch Sat Aug 28, 2010 00:27

Counsellors are only interested in promoting themselves.going along to protests to get their photograph in the lokil rag and promote their own sly political agendas. Find a pile of cans on the ground, go stand beside them and get your photograph in the lokil paper!! That's how sad it is in Bray. Sinn Fein would go into coalition with Fianna Fail in a heartbeat so it seems pointless to see them as any kind of alternative.I am not sure if I will vote for them anymore. They also have not got enough women in the party. They have no problem boycottin our ladies soccer match. Single parents like myself are struggling and we are being let down in Bray.

by John Brady - Sinn Fein Fri Aug 27, 2010 20:11

The Jerseys Rossa and i wore for the protest had to be borrowed from friends in Belfast. They are very hard to get hold of. A party member has a contact in Gaza and had some lined up however he got a phone call from him to say the factory had been blown up by the Israelis. We are trying to get them in from Jordan. We will keep people informed.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Aug 27, 2010 13:00

There seems to be enough of you to form a market. Go manufacturing. Dont be waiting for China and Singapore to do it all. I might buy one meself, if the price is fair and the quality wearable.

by Conor Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:50

I am pleased to see this sort of action. Well done to all involved.
Also, I really want to buy and wear one of those jerseys. I think they are about to become popluar in Ireland!

by Ronan IPSC Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:59

The jersey's are very hard to get. Definately a hot topic as a result of the protest. We've heard some are being ordered but don't have any other info.

If we find a stash of them somehow, believe me, they'll be for sale. They'd sell out in no time. I'll be first in the queue!

Cheers,
Ronan

by ollie Fri Aug 27, 2010 00:35

I second that on the Palestinian jerseys: and would like to buy one in solidarity (much like the Zaytoon olive oil)

Any one got any ideas on where to get one?

(not looking good in google searches - any terra firma locations in Ireland?)

by Lynda Thu Aug 26, 2010 22:23

Well done to all involved for organising this. Especially well done to those two councillors. They put their party leaders Adams and McGuiness to shame. Adams and McGuinnessy met and shook hands and had photos taken with the Israeli ambassador to britain. Pity the two of them hadn't the integrity of their own coouncillors

by francis hughes Thu Aug 26, 2010 22:08

more of this caliber of public reps please and well done to all,

p.s deadly jerseys, where can ya get them

by Des Thu Aug 26, 2010 20:48

Re the photograph (shoe), it’s an insult to the memory of millions of innocent people murdered by the fascists, to use them to defend the crimes of the Zionists. Their policies and crimes are similar in character if not in scale to that of the Nazis.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Aug 26, 2010 19:38

never mind zvrony.He's 'just obeying orders'.
Michael Martin is supposed to represent our disgust.
His door.
what was it, 400 kids.
Just collect 800 kids shoes for the symbol.
Superglue them to his holiday home door.
Callelly has the news hounds excused otherwise.

by Black Guard Thu Aug 26, 2010 19:21

I think Israel is very afraid of this type of protest ... They are worried it will catch on and they don't know how to handle it. It won't make the hardliners think twice but there are many many others in Israel who will start to worry. They best way to influence Israel us to make them think about their own self interest....

Well done for getting it organised and keep it up.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Aug 26, 2010 18:38

So collect the shoes from Gaza from Cast Lead. Deliver them, registered post, to Zevrony.

by Kev - IPSC Thu Aug 26, 2010 18:34

Here is a PDF of the leaflet the IPSC were distributing

PDF of the leaflet the IPSC were distributing 0.47 Mb