Understanding Lisbon: An exploration of the global development aspects of the Lisbon Treaty

by Jim Tue Apr 08, 2008 16:23

Anthony Coughlan (National Platform - EU Research and Information Centre)discussing how the Irish Amendment Bill for the Lisbon Treaty that will be voted on in June states clear as day that it will end the Irish constitution and we will be entering a new EU established by the Lisbon Treaty. This fact can not be disputed as it is written in clear English that even a blind EU follower could understand. The Bill proves that the Lisbon Treaty ends the 27 nations of the EU and makes them provinces.

-- 28th Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008 --

"The State may ratify the Treaty of Lisbon signed at Lisbon on the 13th day of December 2007, and may be a member of the European Union established by virtue of that Treaty.
No provision of this [Irish] Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by membership of the European Union, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State [Ireland]."

by Willie Nillie Tue Apr 08, 2008 21:20

I'm certainly not an expert on any of this but from what I've been reading here and elsewhere I do understand a couple of things clearly.
I understand that this is a redraft of the EU constitution now put forward in a format that no longer requires ratification by any other states constitution , other than ours. i can only deduce that this was done due to the fact that Fance and Holland rejected it when they had the opportunity and ergo so probably would many other have done the same for the same reasons.
But if this treaty is basically the same as the EU Constitution and Ireland have the chance to veto it at the polls on behalf of all other states then why have we not been inundated by the other states beseeching us and lobbying us to vote one way or another.

At the very least, why are not the French and the Dutch shouting blue murder at us to respect the democratic choices they made which are now to be politically circumnavagated through chicanery.

If we, the Irish, hold the last chance ticket to launch the ship that was so clearly holed in France and Holland then why does it feel like we are sitting merely on the edge of a wee bureaucratic puddle rather thanstanding on the shores of a giant democratic sea.

by Sceptic Tue Apr 08, 2008 21:30

..it will end the Irish constitution and we will be entering a new EU established by the Lisbon Treaty.”

Not at all. This Treaty is about minor enough revised governance arrangements for the community not a new EU or the replacement of the Irish constitution which will in fact go on as before. The amendment empowers the Government to accede to the Treaty without the risk of this being found repugnant to the constitution to remove any doubt engendered by the Crotty judgement.

“The Bill proves that the Lisbon Treaty ends the 27 nations of the EU and makes them provinces.”

Nothing of the kind is proven or could be litigated. Since its inception the community has been about the pooling of certain aspects of sovereignty in the common interest. The member states continue very much to exist as such - and not at all as provinces.

Mr. Coughlan has been saying these kinds of things since the 1972 referendum. None of his dire prognostications over a multitude of referenda has ever some to pass. Each time there is a Treaty revision he pops up to remind us he is still alive and unchastened by his five previous defeats. If you are going to be led by someone at least be aware of the record.

by Howard Holby Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:36

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86544
- Call to the nations to restore democracy and constitutional status in Europe
- Call to Ireland to Vote NO to Lisbon Treaty

The article is available at:

by Ronoc Wed Apr 09, 2008 14:26

But indeed this treaty does give more power to bigger EU countrys taking away powers from Ireland. France and Germany along with 2 small nations help will be able to pass laws that all other states all together cannot block.

Here is a list of all the patrons to the Peoples Movement Gluaiseacht an Phobail www.people.ie , They also seem to be advising a No vote because they beleive its an undemocratic treaty... Many articles on their site well worth reading...

Robert Ballagh
Alderman Declan Bree
Raymond Deane
Tony Gregory TD
Prof. John Maguire
Terence McCaughey
Finian McGrath TD
Patricia McKenna
Dervla Murphy
Joe Noonan

Anyhow for the government to rush through such an important Treaty without debate and calling the opposition liars rather than debating, to me it seems like they have something else on the agenda.