The times they are A changing

national | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Monday August 20, 2007 10:38

by Davy Carlin

The Murph - Turf, and beyond

I hear some from various political parties attempt to play ping- pong politics in relation to the march for truth, held in August 2007 in Belfast. I had attended that march, along with friends and family, which included my wife and mother-in-law. And on that march we had carried the picture of Brian Stewart, a child, murdered by the state. Indeed on the very day that I was celebrating my 6th birthday on the 4th of the 10th 1976, in the ‘Murph estate, Brian was being shot in the Turf estate.

There is a mural of Brian on a gable wall in Turf, the same as the picture we had held at that march.

And so as we stood at the top of the White rock Road on that day, I had looked directly a few yards to my left and remembered 30 years back to my childhood. I remembered over the years of ’hitting the deck’ as my mum had always told me to do if ‘caught up in trouble’. I remembered the bullets, some solid and thudding others small and whizzing, all around me, and then there was the sound and smell of rebellion. I remembered also the armoured tanks and guns and the teenagers caked in poverty, but with eyes on fire. I remembered the brutality dished out by the state to innocent men, women and children alike, which fanned the flames of resistance, and in part provided me with my childhood eyes of defiance.

Whether one agrees with it or not real life has taught me that there is a difference between those citizens driven into the Politic of the gun through what many believed was no other alternative, and that of Imperialism driven by the gun. More especially for those citizens who had sought such because of that initial basic human instinct of ‘defence, for those that they loved and cared for.

Imperialism’s and Capitalism’s greed and lust for power and dominance means that they will seek to crush any that stands in its way. We live in a world of plenty yet such resources, lives, and the environment are plundered and destroyed. Millions are starved and allowed to die through preventable diseases, while nations of millions are shackled in debt for the greed of a few. It is a system that will always create chaos for humanity; indeed it is a system with little humanity at its core.

Yet War is such a terrible thing, and many more are affected in many differing ways than what the death and physical injuries statistics speak of.

And so in such a situation there will always be those who will arise up from upon their knees and give all they have got to attempt to change such, through whatever means and however an initial small a way.

With that in mind I then looked to my right and it was only the day before this march I had sat in a Black taxi at the top of the ‘Rock. And to my right I had seen a young twenty something, getting out of their four by four, and going into the new internet café to sip their Lattes and Cappuccinos, and maybe to plan a holiday to far of lands. Indeed many have ‘benefited from the ‘Peace, yet many more are living still in poverty. Indeed where I live many windows speak still of such poverty, and for them, little has changed.

And so the march for me was about marching with and lending solidarity for Relatives seeking truth, including my own. Yet all sides have carried out atrocities. I had known those personally who had been mowed down by Republicans. I had a picture of Andy Kearney and I holding aloft football trophies. He was slaughtered in the name of Republicanism. I remembered kids and teenagers from youth such as Carol Ann Kelly and Karen Reilly, murdered by the state. They are but a few I had known, as there where many, with many in addition taking their own life’s.

Yes, families do need some form of closure from all sides. For me, I had been part of, attending, organising and mobilising against murder, and threats of murder to innocents, may it have come from varieties of Republicanism, Loyalism, the state or collusion with such. Therefore this march, for me was on this occasion about standing with friends and family calling on the British government to acknowledge their part in it. This issue cannot be allowed to incorporate the local ping – pong re - action coming from some. Therefore I believe such a matter would be best dealt with through an Independent and International process in search for truth.

Yet I am not naïve to think that the state will be willingly forthcoming on such matters, indeed it may take decades for even some limited truth in many cases to come out. But nevertheless we must press for it, with and for those that seek it.
On that matter, I had during the West Belfast festival went to a packed meeting that discussed yet more slaughter of innocents in the Ballymurphy estate. They spoke of the murder of their loved ones and of the harassment and taunts they had got afterwards from the state, indeed so similar to many I know. Having been born into the Murph I remember the closeness of the ‘Community. Indeed as a child, just one street in the Murph, that of Glenalina Road in the 70’s held about ten homes related to me in one way or another with many more I would run in and out of. So I knew of many from the surrounding areas and some names on that day I had remembered.

Yet times are a changing in many ways, even on that march as we got to the bottom of the ‘Rock, I remembered how several kids would trail a large tree, {cut down from the Falls Park} past the burning and burnt out lorries and buses that lined the Falls Road to stick on our bonfire. Now thirty years on I sit on committees, have marched, and agitated in various ways. And in doing so have played my part with others that has seen and is seeing through the conservation, redevelopment and renewal of the Falls Park, Black Mountain and Bog Meadows, for generations to come.

Similar I remember the kids heading up the Falls Road to vent their anger at the old Andersonstown barracks site. Thirty years on I marched back down the Falls Road, this time against the proposed private development on the site, now that iconic Barracks has gone.

And so while much has changed, battles still continue. They continue, for many, not only against poverty, and the neo liberalism embraced by many political parties, it continues also for the truth of those murdered, and more.

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Links

Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:44

http://www.phoblacht.net/DC19070618g.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/73973

http://davycarlin.allotherplaces.org/?m=200508

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76275

Unwarranted conflation

by Sceptic

Mon Aug 20, 2007 14:13

Your conflation of imperialism with capitalism is disingenuous. The record of capitalism in lifting the masses out of poverty is miles ahead of any other system and unlike communism it does not require the suppression of individual freedom – rather it works better where there is freedom and limited government. Besides it is a natural thing – when people first began to acquire surpluses because of the invention of farming the natural thing was to barter your surplus for something that you yourself lacked. Hence villages were formed as marketplaces in the first instance. It’s a natural, human thing. What the USSR and Chinese revolutions have shown is that it is enforced communism that is anti human and unnatural.

Have time for a few brief points

by D

Mon Aug 20, 2007 15:44

Hi Sceptic,

Let us just take the wee six up here, and let’s just deal, but very briefly with even the recent past and one of the world’s biggest capitalist, and once major Imperialist powers...

Firstly Capitalism and Imperialism did in fact suppress many individual freedoms,

Why not start with the very basic right, the right to life, which as I have linked above when they had murdered even innocent children, with no justice forthcoming?

Individual Freedom, eh?

Well if such a fundamental and basic right was so easily dismissed, I wonder how other rights faired?

Let’s leave that for a mo, and move to your point about being ‘lifted out of Poverty, well many in fact where and are not ‘lifted out of Poverty but had to battle our way out of it, {and many still remain there}as we did for the right to vote, for housing, for equality, etc .

Indeed, as I had stated before, if many down in the 26 {Ahem} had not swallowed the Empire line and propaganda over the years, who knows?

Capitalism will allow freedoms, but only within its interests.

And so for the accumulation of Capital, Capital will be allowed the freedom to roam the Globe, not so for many Individuals, as Capitalism and its nation states dictate who can and who cannot roam. And therefore those who are within the interest of Capitalism, that is, the wealthy, well they can roam {and even can be given passports etc – ahem} with their Capital across Nation states. But those without that Capital, well such boarders are closed, That is, only if their labour is not needed, once again all within the interests of Capitalism

On you points on the Natural, barter village life etc - and so the development of peoples and history, within a different vision – may call for a wee bit of Dialectic and Historical Materialism?

As for Russian China etc, I don’t agree with the State Capitalism, Deformed, -degenerated workers states theories etc

My point on Capitalism and Imperialism, is but fact, not only of history, but of the present reality -

And so I repeat

'Imperialism’s and Capitalism’s greed and lust for power and dominance means that they will seek to crush any that stands in its way. We live in a world of plenty yet such resources, lives, and the environment are plundered and destroyed. Millions are starved and allowed to die through preventable diseases, while nations of millions are shackled in debt for the greed of a few. It is a system that will always create chaos for humanity; indeed it is a system with little humanity at its core.

Materialism?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 23:05

“..may call for a wee bit of Dialectic and Historical Materialism”

That does not trump anything in the least. Your revolution? Twelve million victims in the USSR; twenty million n China; three million in Cambodia - I could go on. The 19th century experiment in Dialectic Materialism made its mark alright but in unspeakable atrocity, brutality and totalitarian dictatorship. Luckily enough the central Europe threw off the yoke in 1989 and not before time. They did not want any more of your “socialist or Marxist ” crap. And they were ordinary people not bedsit and "Welfare Marxists" in the west.

Final points,

Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:49

Chill Sceptic, it tis only debate -

Although I notice u did not take on the 'Capitalism and Individual freedom' point that u make

My Revolution? - I have not said that I am a supporter of such regimes, indeed I am not -but what I can say is that for every country u give I can give at least five where Imperialist Intervention, overt and convert where responsible for the death of 100's of thousands - again a fact of history

Indeed in a programme I had watched last night, A key figure in the CIA over the decades, stated when asked about the intervention in scores of countries and the crushing of ‘Democracies {individual freedoms to be replaced with fascist and -or other rightwing dictatorships and supported in many cases by rightwing death squads} - that do they have the 'divine right to do such -

The CIA figure stated, or should I say almost spat out, ' that the US {and Capitalism and Imperialism} interests are the only interest that really matter {lives are but statistics and democracies are only allowed on such terms} - and ‘Democracies are not that what drives them, but only that interest of self.

And so, they had the 'Divine right' to intervene and over throw and destroy ‘Democracies and individual freedom, if it is required. And if such ‘Democratic government, {usually based on ‘Social Justice governments who had not bent the knee to US multinationals and the wrecking and plundering of that said countries resources} - then they will bring them down and replace them – at times with right wing and brutal regimes, or such puppet governments

And as he said - 'if they don't like it then they can lump it –

Individual freedoms, eh?

Indeed it takes one to look deeper, outside the mechanism of Capitalism and Imperialisms control and to search for the truth, out side of that that they wish us to believe, as Power, dominance and control is what they seek.

From early youth we are directed how to think and what to learn, and to become a good citizen, under such a system {that is why I seek to learn and come to my own understandings on many matters, as I am always doing}.

Freedoms are 'Given - {and in many cases battled for – then bit by bit sometimes taken away, more especially within the ever emerging Big Brother society} -but only if they fit within the core and don't tamper with their interests – as when they do tamper, then they will intervene in numerous ways to bring such 'into line. We are taught what they wish us to know, and it is about their Wars on their terms, seeking to bring us democracy, and not about their War on their terms, seeking to destroy such a ‘Democracy that does not fit into the remit of their definition of ‘Democracy - that of free market Capitalism.

Indeed it is easy to stay in line and to be a nodding mokey, but more difficult to take that decision to rise up from upon ones knees. But given the brutal nature of the system there will always be those who will seek to break free from such shackles and to get up from upon those knees

Sceptic u ain't going to convince me, and it seems I ain't going to convince u, but it was an interesting brief engagement, and no doubt I will engage with u and your fellow travellers on Indymedia in the time ahead on other matters.

So, for now signing of this thread -
- D

Septic romantic capitalism

by Ciaran C - Future greenhouse victim

Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:52

I love the rosy image of capitalism given to us by sceptic, 'little villages bartering their surplus' etc.
What about the US wiping out tiny south american villages who barterd their surplus fairly in case their good example spread communist notions accross the region?
Or chinese villages bartering all their food at extortionate rates for opium since the developed capitalist missionaries got them hooked before declaring war on them?
Lets not forget the little agrarian villages in Africa that will always remain hopelessly impoverished hovels because the capitalist world has squeezed every potential penny their government will ever make out of them through extortionate loans? Is all this human, innovative and natural?
And when the villages close to the equator are burned to a crisp and the rest of us are waiting for the floods because capitalism has wrecked our environment in such a hellish way, are we to wish the rich all the best as they sail to the fertile north pole holding us back at the point of a gun? 'Fair play to them, they were indeed the fittest, fairs fair'.
Are you gonna be with us or them?

Collusion No Illusion

by Gilbert-Paul Jeannon

Tue Aug 21, 2007 13:14

Hi Bro, long time!

It is about time that the British establishment opened up its files on its role in the war.

For too ling the brits have been portrayed themselves as arbritators in a conflict between two tribes. When hese files are released the Brits will be seen as the biggest barriers to peace on this island.

Ignorance fed by false British propaganda has given the British people no idea of the crimes committed in their names on an island less than an hour away.

One million people at least rightly marched for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq ..no such ground swell support in over thirty years of conflict here in Ireland.

Some of the troops may be gone, but the legacy of british rule still has to be unravelled and digested.

Just a brief Acknowledgement - to my man!

Tue Aug 21, 2007 14:36

Well my friend,,

It's good to be back for some more in depth debate on Indymedia, some sound points as usual - ATB, - D

Fairy tales of history

by Paddy X

Tue Aug 21, 2007 18:44

Sceptic,
I think you mean well. However you have a very naive view of capitalism and its relationship to imperialism.
Some key works are: Walter Rodney " How Europe underdeveloped Africa"
Eric Williams, "Capitalism and Slavery".
K. Marx on so-called 'primitive accumulation" is also enlightening.
Also Karl Polanyi's classic work: The Great Transformation.
Polanyi's work on early human society shows that while humans have always traded, for most of human history the market was subordinate to society. The notion that the 'market system' that now dominates the world emerged spontaneously and 'naturally' is a fairy tale. Our current system, where everything is subordinated to the market, is so anti-human that its instigation required considerable state terror. And to sustain it state violence is essential. As neo-liberalism advances so does repression. To conflate this with democracy is laughable.

Incidentally these books are also very useful, even essential, in understanding Irish history.

When capitalism and imperialism is challenged, its not much of a counter argument to mention Stalinist atrocities.
Imperialism has always used 'religion', or 'democracy' or 'civilization' as a cover for its atrocities and depredations.
That Ireland did not execute people who stole was taken as a sure sign by the English that the Irish were barbarians. Nuff said.

4/10/ 07 - Today -My Birthday -

Thu Oct 04, 2007 19:26

Good Day -

Update -

Today the proposed Private Development at the old Andersonstown Barracks Site {as written about in above article} has been scrapped - as the Private Developer has now withdrawn.

Such now needs to be put back in into the hands of the community.

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The times they are A changing

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