Picket on rogue pregnancy agency in Dublin

by Respect truth Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:45

Your points have been dealt with comprehensively, again and again by several posters. You no longer have any basis for your opinion. You can continue to hold that opinion if you like, just as some people may believe the world is flat, but don't pretend that you can back it up with the merest shred of evidence, and don't start shrieking about "intolerance" when people exercise their right to reply to your arguments and expose the gaping holes. You are the only one trying to stifle free speech here, by attempting to slander the people involved in this campaign and hurling mud in the hope that some of it will stick.

by Jane Tue Mar 27, 2007 20:02

But Cura and Life hold the same views. We aren't protesting outside of their offices. Nobody is. So what makes you think that we are protesting outside the agency merely because of their views on abortion, or even that some people involved are?

Surely if that was the case, they'd have set up camp outside Cura and Life long ago?

by Elisa O'D Tue Mar 27, 2007 20:00

"This agency clearly and in very large letters that even the very dimmest person could understand states that it is against abortion. Just look at the very large sign over the shopfront.
Does anyone with any sense believe that anyone who is seeking 'non-directive' pregnancy-councelling would ever consider seeking out such an agency?
One thing is as clear as the letters on the big big sign - this agency is nailing its colours to the mast. It certainly isn't trying to disguise its purpose or mislead anyone.
So what's the fuss? "

Like others who have posted before I walk past this agency each day on my way to work in the mater and I have never seen that white sign before. Also this agency operates throughout Ireland not just from Dorset street. I attended their 'branch' (someones house) in Limerick and there was no such sign above the door. I thought I was going to receive good solid,comforting advice from a symathetic counciller as their head office/golden pages said I would. Instead I was subjected to an hour of horrific post abortion images and fed lies about links with breast cancer and suicide.
I dont think anyone would have a problem with these people giving this information out or remaining open as long as they no longer advertise as a non directive family planning clinic.They have to advertise themselves honestly and let their clients know that they do not give advice on all pregnancy options.

by Respect free spessch Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:49

Yes Jane I agree that this clinic must make it clear what it's position is. No problem with that. I remain concerned that there are those engaged in this action that are not simply attacking dishonesty but are attacking the views that those that run the place hold.
And will you please stop using the word "Rogue" Every time I see it a image of George Bush pops into mind and that is not good for my disposition.

by Jane Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:23

Are you going to address my point? It was directed at your comments, I think.

by respect free speech Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:20

Joe says, " My hit rate at spotting them is pretty good in so far as 100% that were investigated have been found to be what I thought." Your wonderful Joe. It must be extraordinary to be so sure that you are right. I guess there is no point entering discussion with you. And that is precisely what you want. No debate, no discussion, your right and that's that. Anyone threatening to dent your certainty must be shouted down and abused. I am now more convinced that what is happening here is one group bully another group that they don't agree with.

by H. Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:14

This sign is temporary. This is not paranoia, I walk past the agency everyday. As someone above said, we are not picketing pro-life agencies- this agency pretends to be pro-choice, but is not. It is as simple as that. The agency advertises towards women who are interested in having all of their options available to them. The people there then use emotional blackmail AND GIVE MEDICALLY INCORRECT INFORMATION in order to bully the women into not having an abortion. That is the reason it is a rogue agency. This situation is dangerous, and it is wrong. We picket the agency because it should not be lying to women. I repeat that we are not picketing pro-life agencies, just rogue agencies, who are lying to women about medical information.

by Jane Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:13

"It is obvious that it is being picketed because it is anti-abortion and that is bullying."

I wish people would find out a bit more about the situation before making grandiose statements like that.

Stated as clearly as possible..

I am not opposed to agencies who clearly state that they only give information on TWO options (adoption and completion of pregnancy) in crisis pregnancy situations - i.e. Cura and Life.
I am opposed to agencies who pretend to be three option agencies (like 50 Dorset St) when in reality only deal with two options - and not only refuse to give out abortion information (as defined by the 1995 Abortion Information Act - no bullshit about 'a video showing abortion IS abortion information' thanks - not according to the law, it isn't) but tell outright lies about the procedure and related issues.

At the protest on Saturday, we handed out leaflets detailing other agencies that women could go to in a crisis pregnancy as opposed to 50 Dorset St. We listed them as two and three option agencies, and in the two option category we included Cura - who are most definitely not interested in giving women information on abortion. So how exactly do you reconcile this action with your statement that we are only picketing 50 Dorset St because it is "anti-abortion"? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Also, to back up the other people who have pointed this out - the sign visible in the pictures is very much temporary and was removed the same day as the protest. Usually, the only thing visible on the shop front are the letters WRC, standing for Womens' Resource Centre. If you don't believe us, then perhaps you should empower your bad self and drive by the place so you can see it with your own eyes.

Thanks to the WSM for the podcast, too.

by Joe Tue Mar 27, 2007 18:48

Err Fiery S nice theory buts its rather contradicted by the fact that the written and audio reports both say that the sign was temporary. Plus you have what is almost certainly the same person making pretty much the same point over and over as if they are unable to read either the reports or the replies already given. The technique is a pretty standard PR one that works in the mainstream media with lazy journalists where there is no peer review. No reason to allow it to work here.

Just cause your paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. In this case online trolls are hardly a figment of my imagination and in fact indymedia has nailed several in the past who were using just such tactics as our friends above. My hit rate at spotting them is pretty good in so far as 100% that were investigated have been found to be what I thought.

by Fiery S Tue Mar 27, 2007 18:26

"Yeah that sign had been nailed up that morning and removed in the afternoon. I guess your involved - if so pretty stupid move as all you did was confirm your self-awareness of your own dishonesty."

Why, everytime someone on indymedia expresses a different point of view, do these people come out and automatically accuse them of being "Shell spies" or "trolls" or whatever? I'm going to say this once, and maybe after reading the post several times, "Joe" will understand it.
The sign is in the picture.
There is no evidence in the picture that the sign is temporary.
Therefore he thought that it was there as a permanent fixture.
That is why he thought that they were being honest.

by Respect honest speech Tue Mar 27, 2007 13:59

"It is obvious that it is being picketed because it is anti-abortion"

No it's not. If it were, Life and Cura would be picketed. They aren't, because they are honest about their anti-abortion stance. This agency is being picketed because it advertises itself as if it were pro-choice (look at its Golden Pages listings if you need proof) when it isn't.

Are there no right-to-lifers who find it unacceptable for one of their agencies to use such false, misleading tactics?

by Troll Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:02

Funny how the bullies and abusers can twist things is it not?

1. This agency should be reffered to the IAPC (asap).
2. The golden Pages should be made aware of the issue.
3. well done- but be careful, cornered animals rattle and roar.

IAPC- Irish association of Professional Counsellors.

by Respect free speech Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:44

No problem with your position that this premises should make clear that they are anti-abortion and will offer advise and assitance on the other options only. That said, should not all these premises state clearly whether they are pro or anti?
I have to say that I don't think that the harrassment of this premises is entirely about whether it is clear on it's position. It is obvious that it is being picketed because it is anti-abortion and that is bullying.

by Respect truth Tue Mar 27, 2007 09:26

No, you're still refusing to listen. The sign was put up in the morning of the protest and taken down again the same afternoon. It's not there today and won't be there for any of the visits paid by women conned by the deliberately misleading ads in the Yellow Pages. If they had that sign up all the time and were honest about the nature of their "advice", there wouldn't be a problem. Instead, they deliberately set out to mislead women, as admitted by one of their supporters on the audio above.

by respect free speech Tue Mar 27, 2007 09:15

The photos betray those that are trying to excuse their intimidation of those that operate this premises by claiming that they give false information. The place is clearly run by those that are anti-abortion and anybody entering the place will have no doubt that information provided will be anti-abortion and indeed every effort will be made to get the pregnant woman to choose an option other than abortion.This is legitimate activity in a democracy.
Again the use of the word "rogue" has connotaions with attempts to justify the invasion of Iraq which resulted in the deaths of 500000 innocent people. So not exactly a great choice of an "abuse label" Or are pro-choice people saying that anyone who disagrees with their position is "rogue"? Perhaps the legal brain behind the pro-choice campaign will step forward and explain/excuse the use of this term and the open bullying on those that are operating this premises.
You may not agree with what they preach, but they have a right to preach it and it would be extremely dangerous if those who can shout the loudest could simply bully those they disagree with into silence.

by Q Tue Mar 27, 2007 08:37

Joe, the place is advertised as a pregnancy angency. One would assume it is to affirm and nourish the pregnancy. If it was advertised as a termination clinic and then low and behold when you got through the door and discovered nuking the foetus was not an option, then you might have a case. When you refer to "women" and choice you are not refering to the unborn women who are increasingly the victim of sex selected abortions. When you refer to someone advocating a choice not to your liking they are "anti-choice".

by Joe Mon Mar 26, 2007 23:29

Seeing as the guy was justifying tricking women into life changing decisions I thought my description of him as an 'anti-choice' activist was rather mild. But its also accurate, the argument is between those who think the decision should be the choice of the women and those who do not.

by Pseudonym Mon Mar 26, 2007 23:23

"Anti Choice Activist", that should be removed. He is trying to espouse a view. In fairness by the rational of those who frequent Indymedia those who were pickiting should be called "pro death activists"

by Joe Mon Mar 26, 2007 21:43

Yeah that sign had been nailed up that morning and removed in the afternoon. I guess your involved - if so pretty stupid move as all you did was confirm your self-awareness of your own dishonesty.

by pensioner Mon Mar 26, 2007 21:39

This agency clearly and in very large letters that even the very dimmest person could understand states that it is against abortion. Just look at the very large sign over the shopfront.

Does anyone with any sense believe that anyone who is seeking 'non-directive' pregnancy-councelling would ever consider seeking out such an agency?

One thing is as clear as the letters on the big big sign - this agency is nailing its colours to the mast. It certainly isn't trying to disguise its purpose or mislead anyone.

So what's the fuss?

If you want abortion info just go to the FPL. The address is in the phone book. Attacking other extremists isn't helping anyone.

So what is this ridiculous demo about? Well, I'll tell you. Its about doing what the loony-left does best - trying to supress opinions that differs with its own, and doing so by noisy intimidatory barracking. No wonder no one votes for them and every issue they campaign on fails.

Get a life. Leave the 'right-to-life' nutters to theirs. No one votes for them either.

by Interesting Mon Mar 26, 2007 20:34

Where is the WRC?

They have come to terms with the false advertising- but not the false medical information
have they registered with yellow pages?????

by Joe - WSM - personal capacity Mon Mar 26, 2007 20:30

Its 3.1 mb and around 11 minutes.

Due to a technical problem with the recording equipment the are some short segments randomly missing, apologies for this

Interviews made at Saturdays picket
Interviews made at Saturdays picket 3.11 Mb