A Subway for the future.

by luas lover Thu Oct 19, 2006 14:17

I just had a look on the transport dept website for the new route - its going along the main airport road, but somehow there will be a stop at o'connell bridge and stephens green. are we to take it from this that the metro will be underground and not overground like the LUAS?

if it is, this is madness - think of the delays with the LUAS when they were digging up the streets, and that was just at street level. the road collapsed in harcourt street at one point, because there was an old bricked up cellar under the road that nobody knew about any more, it had just been built over several times.

digging underground deep for a metro system will encounter all sorts of underground rivers, walls, churches, streets, artefacts, viking relics, and ancient sewage works. of course if anything like this is found, then all work has to STOP immediately while the archaeologists come in and clean everything down with toothbrushes. this is no bad thing uncovering material from the past - but of course the metro progress will grind to a halt.

the best option is for overground light rail - connect it to the LUAS, interconnectivity between lines is important, and just look at the success of the red and green lines - and it will cost a lot less (money and time) in the long run.

by Terence Thu Oct 19, 2006 14:45

This overcrowding on our trains has been known for years and I have heard people frequently comment about it over the past 7 or 8 years. The most dangerous part must be where people are standing in the sections between carraiges. This is very dangerous and overall this is a disaster waiting to happen.

However it is possible that CIEs hands are tied here, because there are various restrictive rules applied to a state company about capital spending.

A case in point is Dublin Bus. They have requested for years that they been allowed buy over 120 or so new buses because well eh they need them. Apparently they can't just go out and buy them like any other company. They need some sort of ministerial approval and I think it was last year the minister only approved the purchase of 6 to 8 buses. This is all part of a strategy to starve Dublin Bus of a new fleet and let the existing system degrade so badly that the service runs down and public opinion is then manipulated to ask for privatisation.

The same is very likely happening with CIE and may explain the apparent apathy from the company. It is quite obvious they need new rolling stock but I am sure if we look at the decisions around this we will see government interference. The worst case scenario for the neo-liberal elements in power is a smoothly running and efficient train service. Then there would be no justification to privatise it..

I think what we will see is if there is a bad accident and I truly hope there isn't, then this will be used as a justification to privatise it. It will go something like this. The accident happened due to a combination of aging stock and inefficent work practices; private investment is badly needed to bring it up to modern standards and we must work with the private sector to implement this as they are the only ones with the expertise and finance.......

And to the metro..... it is well known that once you go underground, that the costs per mile or kilometer go up by a factor of 10 at the very minimum. I heard a number of years ago that a preliminary survey of the soils in Dublin showed it to be quite unsuitable for tunneling because it is largely composed of soft alluvial soil and it tends to shift and subside and would need considerable reinforcing within the tunnel. Perhaps this could explain part of the delays and cost overruns with the existing and very expensive port tunnel.

But if they do go ahead then it would make sense to minimize the actual amount of tunnel and go above ground as soon as possible.

by LaLa Thu Oct 19, 2006 14:59

.... another idea is that Irish Rail and Dublin Bus as soooooo incompetent that they can't do what expected of them no mather how much money their given.

The Luas could have been achieved with just clearing the routes of traffic and running buses that change the traffic lights to their advantage. Don't be too suprised when its scrapped when the metros expanded.

Metro is a good idea though, at least its underground (ish), and you can add bits on. Hopefully they ll be able to build it.

by Still waiting Thu Oct 19, 2006 16:03

And pigs will fly. Was supposed to be completed three years ago. And when was the tunnel supposed to open?