hundreds die the world just stands by

by Mags Mon Jul 31, 2006 16:53

I suggest bombarding the Israeli Embassy with e-mails of condemnation. Let them know what decent Irish people think about their War Crimes in Lebanon. embisrael@iol.ie

by bs Mon Jul 31, 2006 17:02

Is this the beginning of a new genocide for this century

54 people does not even come close to 6 million and the desecration of an entire race, shame on you people here even trying to compare the holocaust
SHAME

by manic_dave Mon Jul 31, 2006 17:25

Shame, Get off the saop box. How much wil Isreal get away with because of wheta the Germans did to them. Its about time the Americans told them where to go, and let the Middle East alone. Killing Children. The Israelis are a shower of selfrighous, arrogant, aggressive bullies. Who hide behind their big brother. Shame ! shame!

by Coilín Mon Jul 31, 2006 19:52

The Irish government refused to let US flights carrying bombs for Israel to land in Ireland - presumably because our political leaders were afraid that the Pitstop Ploughshares would do an encore - to thundering applause even!

So the flights were supposed to be re-routed through Prestwick.

This decision resulted in a peace demo involving about 150 people at Prestwick yesterday (Sunday), as reported by the BBC:
http://tinyurl.com/odw53

Meanwhile two flights carrying "hazardous material" were diverted to the RAF base in Mildenhall, Suffolk, presumably for fear that Karen Fallon might be in the neighbourhood with a mattock strapped to her back and an inflatable hammer in her pocket. The flights landed on Saturday evening and flew off again yesterday.

And also here a demo was held, as reported by the Cambridge Evening News:
Peace protesters gathered outside the base holding placards that screamed: "Stop murderous cargo flights."
...
Peter Lanyon, former co-ordinator of the Suffolk branch of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, said: "We are horrified and condemn entirely the weapons transports to the Middle East, this will only add to the worsening humanitarian crisis.
"And we certainly wouldn't expect our Prime Minister to be so weak-kneed to allow it. In view of the row that there is around Prestwick, this is deceitful to just shift it down here."
He said he believed the chartered Atlas cargo planes were carrying munitions and added: "I think they are bunker-buster missiles but it is the UK's involvement that we really object to. We are all guilty for every child and woman who is damaged in Lebanon as a result."
David Howarth, Cambridge Liberal Democrat MP, slammed the use of RAF Mildenhall and called on the Government to stop the country being "used and abused" by the Americans.
...
http://tinyurl.com/nujx5

Conclusion:
US bomb transports to Israel are not wanted in Ireland, not wanted in Scotland and not wanted in the Home Counties either.

Go figure!

Best,
Coilín.

by Paul R - . Mon Jul 31, 2006 21:09

Israel is wrong but they would never have done it without back up from the US.

Israel may be a puppet but worse the US is not even trying to hide the fact that they are a corporate fascist state leading their citizens by their noses into a rightless future.

Power still seems to come from the barrel of a gun.

by informative Mon Jul 31, 2006 21:19

(1) the sovreignty of Lebanon has to be respected and the right of the Palestinians to their territory too.

(2) what's going to happen by Thursday - limited prisoner release and hostage swap followed by a process of conflict resolution which sees democratisation, serenity, discretion and normalisation of Lebanon as Hezbollah agree to a protracted process of arms decommissioning accompained by the demilitarisation of southern Lebanon.
(sound familiar? should do - the Irish invented the formula with help from the USA)

(3) Tomorrow is Swiss national day. Every august 1 sees "far right" and "far left" Swiss types gather to have a ruck. This time though the Swiss police aren't letting anyone into the town where the government celebrate Swiss nationality unless they've got an invite, these are free of course but you have to submit personal data like .-
Have you carried a nazi flag? or..... Do you put swastikas on your political posters?

That might seem weird to people on offshore Ireland, but having watched videos of the ongoing vigil and anti-war demonstrations at the Isreali embassy to Spain ( a difficult diplomatic relationship at the best of times ) these last days I'm a bit worried. I'll tell you why :-
The Spanish police have cordoned off the embassy to "protect it", but they've also divided the protesters. One on side the left "with swastikas on the posters coz the Israelis are zionazis" and on the other side the far right "with swastikas on the flags coz thats who they are and hate zionists".

Strangely enough the proverb "my enemies enemy is my friend" has not brought together the two sides at the Madrid embassy nor is it likely to bring together the two sides at Swiss national day tomorrow... This pattern is being repeated globally, wherever the far right and neo-nazi's may count on support they're coming out to wave their celtic crosses ( how do we feel about that symbol being used? ) and their swastikas. Because they hate jews and know what the language really does. A long time ago I tried to inform people of a decision made by the people who work on Beirut, Israel and Jerusalem indymedia centres to avoid the terms "zionazi" & as a result words like "blitzkrieg" - Let's leave the nazi's out of this. Not a single Israeli soldier guilty of war crimes was alive in WW2.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/detail/Security_tigh...57000

Its time for us to ponder - do we support a peace process for Hezbollah?
like the one the IRA, UVF, ETA, APC got?
Or do we have better ideas?

by isoafwatch Mon Jul 31, 2006 21:25

How about you answer one of questions for once and state what you mean for us dummies.

by anon Mon Jul 31, 2006 21:57

Sorry if Im being tireringly cynical here and in the 'never happy' brigade, but Ireland didn't 'ban' Israeli bombs from travelling through Shannon, It didn't take moral stance on anything because there was nothing to ban. The Irish Times has headline today 'State bans US arms flights to Israel quoting yet another official.
Ahern has been granted much moral kudos for doing absolutely nothing.

In light of the changing situation since the conlfict has escalated, any request to transport weapons through Shannon for use in that conflict.

But then later its quotes the Dept of Transport says that Ireland gave permission for heavy weapons to travel to Israel on civilian plane as recently as the 11th of May, and goes on to say thatThe Department of Foreign Affairs has rejected charges that is has already refused permission to Israeli-bound arms carrying aircraft, insisting there was no request made. The government has also denied it has refused request by military to transport consignments through Shannon of 600lb "bunker-buster bombs" that are responsible for of the worst damage in Lebanon.

In particular the Department of Foreign Affairs said it was untrue that a US charter aircarft carrying munitions for Israel had to use Prestwick in Scotland after it was refused permission to land in Shannon.

Which blows half of the Scottish stories, which is why Im so annoyed when I have seen people say 'good on ya Ireland' after they read the stories in UK and Irish newspapers because Dermot Ahern and Irish officials are obviously playing it up and people are lapping it up.

Scottish MPs and journalists jumped all over Mr Aherns obscure statement to use as comparison and a stick to beat Blair etc with, a tactic we are all fond of doing along with speculation like this. There is terrible amount of speculation in the Scottish newspapers about whats going through Prestiwck but should Ahern get any praise for it? And again here http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1104532006 Opposition critics last night seized on the situation. Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond said: "It is highly significant that Shannon put its foot down and drew back from allowing the transport of bunker busters, which could become the tinder to escalate dramatically the Middle East conflict." So Ahern words don't mean a thing if these bombs were never going through Ireland anyway.

Bombs destined to be used by Israel are being flown via Scotland because the Irish government refused to allow them to land on its soil, according to Scotland on Sunday and the Sunday Herald.

The Irish spokesman says that they have been no request for this type cargo since 11th of May.

This from the Sunday Herald
One Irish official said that the bombs would never have been allowed on Irish soil.

The source said: "There is absolutely no way that we would allow munitions or weapons to be shipped through Shannon to a location where there is an actual war going on. We would not allow it. It is correct that we allow the US to transport troops to Shannon, but sending bombs to Israel is another matter and completely out of the question for us."
Just read this again and laugh.

"The Irish Government has refused to allow its airports to be used as a stopover for munitions."
This is the sentence that is used in this report http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and...4.stm
? Since when has this been the case?

We've had Israeli Apache helicopters through our Shannon and the Irish government have seen for years what they've done to the occupied terroritries of Palestine, no moral objections then. Buts that what happens when you an Anatov maintenance base at your airport.

So Ahern has been granted much moral kudos for doing absolutely nothing.

I maybe getting confused bewteen Irish airports and Irish airspace but here again
Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond said the Irish Government had refused to allow its airports to be used as a stopover for munitions. Again no they didn't according to their spokesman.

The Irish Civil Aviation Authority last night confirmed they refused one plane permission use their air space when it set off from Prestwick for Israel after refuelling. It did? Not according to Irish officials today.

They added: "It is normal practice to use Irish airspace to travel from Prestwick. On this occasion permission was denied. I am not able to say why." This from the Sunday Mail for context.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/346478.html?c=on...ments
Irish airspace http://www.iaa.ie/images/IAA_map2.jpg ? Do it take off in a swinging loop from Prestwick?

And Coilin you fell for it, Im disappointed :) but please anyone correct me if Im wrong.

by helpful even Mon Jul 31, 2006 23:26

Peace processes always see diplomatic and political machinery take the place of the war machine. That's why they're enduringly popular but generally make less good telly, this is because people for some reason don't like war but don't seem to mind watching it on telly, in movies or having a go at it on their computer or playstation.

Peace Processes require tables of negotiation - these are generally set before "cessation of hostilities" are declared. Generally one side holds many members of the other's forces - negotiating prisoner release is the oldest reason for parley other than surrender. Peace Processes rely on observation, interlocutor, guarantor parties - In the case of the Lebanon these traditionally have been the parties to the conflict - and have always included the states of Israel, Lebanon, Syria and the USA and as standard observer the UN.

This time its a wee bit different. Hezbollah has surprised everyone so much. When yesterday the prime minister of Lebanon (opposed to Hzb in democratic politics) praised the fighting of Hezbollah and thanked their "input" - he was doing so less than 18 months after free and accounted elections and the withdrawl of Syrian troops and intelligence personel (to comply with resolution 1559 v- the only element not fulfilled is the disbanding of Hzb's militia - who are now being thanked for humiliating the IDF and possibly stopping a deeper land invasion).

He was it appears setting up the "pan-lebanese front" a term I think most Irish readers may understand by remembering the "pan-nationalist front" which was associated with the setting up of the table of negotiations before the beginning of the Irish Peace process. For the moment Syria is not at the table with the US, and the US has moved from its previous negotiation or peace process presence in regards to Israel from "pretending to be an honest broker" to "a clear ally of Israel". The US did similar during the creation of the "pan-nationalist front" before the Irish peace process. John Major being the first british prime minister to field irish american lobby questions on his official state visit to Clinton - & a shock it was for him but it made Irish people feel good about themselves.

Basically the reason the UN security council didn't do its expected resolutions today - on Iranian nuclear power or a Hezbollah / Israel peace process - is that Hezbollah's end game diplomatic status has altered and neither side is really sure what to call them at the table. On July 12th they were terrorist - undoubtedly still are - but now they've got the support of much more Lebanese and Palestinian and global muslims & is it happens christians. They appear to have won the telly war & are moving on to the much coveted status of freedom fighter

The US republican Bush regime really has fucked up big time. It's has only taken a few years for it to become apparent how much so. They have never understood the roots of armed conflicts which include militia or "terrorist groups". & they have completely mismanaged the deaths of Hariri, Arafat (& Sharon)

Without Syria at the table - the process is loaded. The Syrians may have taken out their troops, they might have (but not conclusively proven) killed Hariri - but one thing no-one mentions is that one million of them used to work in Lebanon. Till about 3 weeks ago - when the infrastructure & jobs such things mean got destroyed. With Syria at the table the thrust of US middle east policy on state sponsored terror falls apart. Especially when after 3 weeks of war and global outrage - the Israeli people see their Hzb prisoners released - exactly what they were told to do on July 12th.

They're between swastika flags & swastika posters yet that war is over
- I saw the pope go to auschwitz on telly he looked very sincere.
- i also wrote out here many times that one of the most astute and formidable politicians of the modern age (who have emerged since Bush started this global disaster) is in fact the prime minister of Iran. He has the west by the psychic pubes.

Don't worry isoafwatch - I'll do my best to explain concisely what the peace process is - when it gets published. But for the most part it is exactly the same as any peace process. Which ought invite Irish people at least to wonder "when do these process begin and why?" [answer - stalemate or apparant victory by one side - or a love of democratic institutions?]

Saleem = Siochain = Shalom = Bake ( as in the basque bake not the english one )

by John Mon Jul 31, 2006 23:40

Can anyone explain this link?;

by Pro-Justice Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:55

To support or try to justify Israeli war crimes is as bad as supporting fascist war crimes. The Israeli Government simply can’t lay claim to the Judaism that encompasses the Jewish people who were brutally murdered by Fascism. The Israeli Government has more in common with the perpetuators of that brutally and callus mass murder than those who suffered from the imprisonment, torture, murder and horror of the holocaust and there are people alive today that still suffer from it.

Those who suffered under fascism were normal working people and the poor. The Israeli Government is a super-rich tyrannical body with no, possible plausible, excuse for the war crimes it has carried out in the names of the country of Israel as a whole even though many don’t support it and are silenced or imprisoned if they do. Where is the alternative government? There is none, it seems to be a 2 party system just like the US. It's like being given a choice to vote for Hitler or Stalin and calling it democracy.

How many soldiers have refused to take part in Israel’s terrorism? You may see very few protestors on the streets but that’s only because it’s unofficially illegal to protest in Israel. What I mean by that is if you don’t have a permit you can’t protest! - A permit to protest? Doesn’t this defeat the purpose and infringe on people’s democratic right to peaceful protest? It’s tantamount to saying that you can only protest if those you are protesting against say its okay!

The US will never stop supporting Israel as
1. They are entirely complicit in all of Israel’s crimes
2. Israel is the American’s ‘body’ in the Middle East and is a large part of how they hold influence in the area.

by anon Tue Aug 01, 2006 13:11

For more graphic and disturbing images of the daily reality for Palestinians and presumably what they are meating out to the Lebanise see http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

Father tries to shield his son and look for escape. . .

But the brutal Israelis open fire. . . .

The son is dead in his fathers lap. The father is critically wounded.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Aug 01, 2006 13:51

As events in Gaza and Lebanon quite naturally hug the media headlines, internationally and at home, including most Indymedia threads, I think it is legitimate to ask whether the war and the killings in Iraq (and Afghanistan) have been ‘cancelled’.
Today is ‘Day 21’ of the Israeli aggression, otherwise known as the ‘Middle East Crisis’, but how many remember, or continue to care, that it’s Day 1231 of the war in Iraq? And this with casualties, averaging more than 100 a day recently, easily surpass those in Gaza and Lebanon combined.
The steady fall off in Iraq media coverage, and public interest to the extent they are synchronic, is not an accident methinks. It’s a barometer of the scope of the tragedy for US and British foreign policy. Americans and British, shall I say English instead, don’t like to lose…in sport as much as in war! They know defeat when they see it, no matter how many new ‘plans for victory’ are trotted out to obscure that reality.
The spectre of defeat is not the only reason international and national media have switched off Iraq. The larger issue is that, while in the Israeli aggression the stakes for the combatants are clear [us v them, life v death ] the war in Iraq has no further rationale to keep it afloat…what exactly are the 200,000 or so soldiers of the Empire, and the assorted ancillary mercenaries, fighting for? It’s a nightmare, albeit foretold, and one that lacks any sign of a coherent plot.
There has certainly been no shortage of ‘explanations’ for the war, some of them retrofitted, during the last three years. Saddam’s mushroom clouds and the Al-Qaeda stories proved to be simply frauds. Then came the ‘promotion of ‘democracy’ and that the war would make the Middle East ‘safer for Israel’! And bring ‘cheap oil to the West’! Recent developments show starkly how badly the Empire blundered – no further commentary is necessary here.
But it’s the collapse of the last remaining ‘motivation’, that the invasion was a humanitarian mission on behalf of the Iraqi people, an explanation of which Blair is so fond , that underlines the moral and political catastrophe this war’s architects have brought upon all of us. The legacy of that attitude is that the public, in the US, England, Ireland, Europe and certainly the Arab world cannot be rallied to the Empire’s cause……as this war, I believe, reaches its treacherous endgame.
The contempt the US and UK Governments showed for Iraqis, who were supposed to greet the liberating troops with flowers and go about their business, was well reflected not only in the cavalier stance towards Iraqi casualties [“We don’t do body counts” said General Tommy Franks]…not only in the abuses of Abu Ghraib…there has been a continuous cultural condescension towards the Iraqi people….who remembers today Chalabi, Allawi, Jaafari and the most recent product Maliki? They come and go, all graced with the same wooden praise from Bush and Blair, in an endless loop of instability and crisis.
Then came the assassination of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the “fount of Iraqi troubles” according to our RTE. He’s gone but resistance and violence continue. According to Bush, “…the enemy in Iraq is a combination of rejectionists, Saddaminsts and terrorists”!! But Iraq’s exploding sectarian warfare cannot be pinned on Al Qaeda or Baathist deadenders.
And here comes perhaps the most important piece of the puzzle. As far as I am concerned, the most dangerous figure for the Empire’s plans is a home grown radical Shiite Muktada Al-Sadr. He is neither a follower of Osama nor Saddam…he is an ally of Iran…and a supporter of Hezbollah and Hamas. He commands more than 30 seats in Maliki’s governing coalition and 5 cabinet positions. He is directly linked to death squads that have slaughtered not only Iraqis but also US and British soldiers since the uprising of 2004.
His power has grown gradually as Iraqi ‘democracy’ grew roots. I am reminded here of the process of how Al Qaeda grew in Afghanistan as a result of CIA encouragement while they were fighting the Russians in the ‘90s. And also hard to forget that Hamas was initially supported by the US and the Israeli intelligence services as a counter weight to the then dominant PLO.
To conclude, I am almost tempted to say that had the US wanted to strengthen Islamic fundamentalism and destabilise the Middle East, including raising Iran’s profile in the region, they could not have been any more successful. Of course, in such a scenario, it’s always the ordinary people, Afghanis, Iraqis, Palestinians, Israelis now Lebanese, and perhaps soon Syrians and Iranians who are the victims. That’s why I believe the Empire’s plans, warmongering and politics must be opposed.

by Potatriotic Wed Aug 02, 2006 20:49

We can say something when we apologise that in the 1930s Eire / the 26 cos. (c/o Dev) did nothing at all to help Jewish refugees. In early 1945 the films of Belsen were barred from cinemas here because they were 'British propaganda'.

After the war in 1945 he allowed that 12 Jewish families could come here.

We had lots of room but we did nothing. We needed their money and skills. If we had helped we might have had Einstein here. But of course they weren't Catholics. Because millions died you now have a super-paranoid state of Israel.

In 1945-47 the IRA sympathised because Jewish freedom fighters / terrorists were fighting the British. I see a lot of Sinn Fein related stuff around the indymedia website.

Likewise the democrats in the USA supported Israel most. JFK and all the Ks took Jewish support and votes. Many of the same democrats gave cash to Sinn Fein who killed too many of us here for no reason and with no result.

Hizbollah tweaked the paranoid state's tail, yet again, knowing what the effect might be on civilians, knowing it could increase their support. They and Iran - and Israel - are all deeply unpleasant.

Let politics be a matter of logic, not emotion, from now on please. Boycott Israeli goods by all means or keep out of it. Media attention gained by standing on faraway corpses is disgusting and childish. We know what is going down, we are not stupid. Let them sort it out - and realise that nobody will pay a bit of notice to us.

by CG Mon Aug 07, 2006 02:28

Oh, rubbish. You pretend to be an advocate for rational debate and immediately try and confuse people with emotioned guff. Holocaust guilt? Check. Outrage against murderous Provos? Check. Oh yes, indymedia is a haven of Shinners! How dare we raise our voices against the righteous ones - we're all murderers by implication! I tug the forelock to ye in submission, yer honour.

As I understand it, Israel is trying to bomb the UN out of Lebanon, targeting our soldiers in the process. It is our business.

by just like Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:19

END OF