Iran

by MichaelY - iawm Mon May 01, 2006 20:10

Hey,

Please read carefully both my but also Pat's message. Nowhere will you find either any support for the mullahs and certainly not for their acquisition/use of nuclear weapons.
However, carpet bombing the Iranian people, under the guise of so-called 'possibilities of nuclear weapons in a few years' [under the best warmongering estimates] is not something any sane, let alone any progressive person can support. Iran, at the moment, is not attacking anybody....preventive war is another Bush and neo-conservative trick. They tried it with all sorts of lies in Iraq and see where it got them....this is why we are calling it w a r m o g e r i n g! The people of the Middle East, of Afghanistan, of Iraq and now possibly Iran have suffered enough from the shananigans of the Empire.
And forget any comparisons between Hitler and nazi germany and Iran...it won't wash....not here, not today, not in Indymedia. All it shows is another chapter of malfunction in your system re: the meaning of fascism and the history of imperial German/Prussian State.

by pat c Mon May 01, 2006 19:37

Below is an extract from a statement by the Worker-Communist Party of Iran in which they make clear their opposition to the US/UK Axis aggression. Full article at the link.

No to US Warmongering!

On the third anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, amidst the current death, destruction and carnage and the catastrophe that has engulfed Iraq, the fear of another war, on a much larger scale with unimaginable consequences which will make the war in Iraq seem like a child’s play is growing. The US is fanning the flame of yet another war, this time against the people of Iran. The US warmongering is not out of compassion for the Iranian people or its desire to stand up to political Islam. Whoever stands in the way of the US government’s interests will be subjected to the wrath of US military might.

At the time when the struggles of the people of Iran against the Islamic Republic is gaining momentum; at the time of escalating labour movement in Iran and at the time when all sections of the Iranian society are gearing up to bring this inhumane regime down and put an end to oppression, execution, stoning and sexual apartheid, the US warmongering is playing right into the hands of the murderous regime in Tehran. The US aggression is a blessing in disguise for the hated Iranian regime.

by Mr. T. Mon May 01, 2006 19:37

MichaelY:

You WERE ONCE for a NUCLEAR FREE middle east.

THEN I spoke out in AGREEMENT with your position.

NOW YOU SUPPORT NUKES in the middle east but only if they're in the hands of Iranian mullahs.

Unlike yourself, MichaelY, I continue to support a nuclear free middle east. And that includes Israel, as far as I'm concerned. I wonder how many others find it very odd that someone claiming to be anti-war would would support the proliferation of nuclear weapons... most anti-war activists - at least those I know that aren't liars or mentally ill - maintain a consistant approach with respect to eradication of weapons of mass destruction. Then there are those twits who masquerade as anti-war activists who are really quite simply anti - west or anti-american. They would support fucking Hitler if he rose from the grave and took a position against America or the UK.

I have to wonder which type of anti-war activist you really are, MichaelY.

by pat c Mon May 01, 2006 19:25

now isnt that going a little too far? not even a call for "smart" bombs. unfortunately they still havent invented a bomb smart enough to discriminate between supporters and opponents of the iranian regime. nor one that discriminates between children and revolutionary guards.

you wont find any of the iranian opposition groups calling for the carpet bombing or any kind of bombing of iran that would be carried out by the US/UK Axis.

Yes, opposition groups, Kurds, Communists and Left Nationalists are carrying out an armed struggkle against the Islamofascist Regime. They should be supported in their struggle but all of these groups are opposed to US/UK Axis military intervention.

And indeed Israel is the one Terrorist state in the region which occupies the territory of Syria and Palestine, it also has an arsenal of up to 300 nuclear warheads. Where are the UN sanctions? When can we expect US/UK Axis forces to bomb Tel Aviv?

by MichaelY - iawm Mon May 01, 2006 17:03

I do get concerned somewhat when the Mr Ts of this world agree with me (us). Particularly when his 'interpretation' of my message is so slanted.
To clarify, the major problem in the Middle East, now and in the past 50 years at least, has been the imposition and unqualified support of the state of Israel by the western powers...an act that led to the displacement and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.
The Iranian people, on the other hand, have also been the victim of US aggression....from the overthrow of their elected PM Mossadeq in the '50s, to the support of the US to that arch criminal the Shah, to arming Saddam Hussein and supplying him with intelligence to attack Iran. The present head-the-ball in Iran is, let us not forget, an elected leader...for whatever Mr T says, he is far more representative of his people than any other 'friendly' MIddle Eastern leader...the Saudis, the Kuweitis and the Egyptians included.
So carpet-bombing Iran and its people will, if it happens, be another gross act of barbarism by the Empire. As barbaric, and fruitless, as the carpet-bombing of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. There they were dropping napalm and dioxins....incapacitating the land and its people for generations...in Iran we will probbly witness technological and scientific 'progress'....cluster bombs with depleted uranium if not straight forward nukes. On the name of democracy and Christian values of course.
So, Mr T, however opposed I(we)may be to the mullahs, the warmongering of the Empire, and its unqualified support of Israel, represent a much larger threat... not only for the people of the region but humanity itself.

by Tony Mon May 01, 2006 15:40

Mr T says:
"the best way forward in achieving this is to prevent (by any means required, including military intervention) Iran or any other nation from building nuclear arsenals. Concurrently, significant pressure can be applied to Israel to dismantle their nuclear arsenal." From Mr T's earlier posts we know that this includes "carpet bombing the entire country"
Notice the sleight of hand - stop Iran "by any means required, including military intervention", and "apply signifcant pressure" to get Israel, which already has nukes to get rid of them.
Why not disarm Israel "by any means required"?
The answer is simply that Mr T is a Muslim-hater. The fact that Israel has nukes already actually must, and can only, mean, that "by any means required, including military intervention" INCLUDES acceptance of a nuclear strike by Israel on Iran.
Still, Muslims are unpersons as far as Mr T is concerned, so although it is "genocide" to call for the destruction of the Israeli state (not, mark you, the annihilation of the Israel population) for Mr T it is not genocide to accept carept-bombing of Iran or nuclear strikes on Iran.

by Mr. T. Mon May 01, 2006 00:28

MichaelY makes a good point - the middle east must be a nuclear free zone.

The best way forward in achieving this is to prevent (by any means required, including military intervention) Iran or any other nation from building nuclear arsenals. Concurrently, significant pressure can be applied to Israel to dismantle their nuclear arsenal.

I'm delighted to learn that MichaelY and his organisation reject the islamofascist Iranian nuclear programme. This is indeed very good news!

by MichaelY - iawm Sun Apr 30, 2006 18:28

The message below came from a friend living in the Middle East

If Israel has some reason to fear the nuclear weapons that Iran allegedly intends to develop, all the people of the Middle East have all the more reason to fear the nuclear weapons that Israel certainly possesses.

If the elected president of Iran is a dog that barks, Israel is a hound that bites off chunks of other peoples' land.

Let us campaign for nuclear disarmament of the whole region, for a Middle East free of nuclear weapons!

So say all of us.

by gurggle gurggle is happy someone responds! new tussle! Sat Apr 29, 2006 19:56

Wow. You're very impressive. They should offer you a job in a psi-lab and stick you in a fishtank so you can precognate the stock markets.

The "zero" which appeared in Islamic India, which was adopted by Arabic traders, was passed to Europe through the Islamic world.
Irrigation systems using multiple weirs and water wheels were introduced to Europe by Islamic culture.
Never said anything about your typos. I like typos. theyre part of the style.

I'm completely with those who oppose the anti-semitism coming out of Iran, & indeed have worked as an activist on that very issue in the last six months. I'm not going to jump on a "lets bomb them willy nilly", invade them, set up a democracy, send nestle water and burger king "to keep the american boys and girls happy while they're there" approach which after a false declaration of "war ended" will last for years and years and turn every moderate into a sullen unhappy resentful type.
& I suspect thats what you'd like to see. Its called "war" & it doesn't work, really it doesn't.

I'll put it this way, having a higher than usual understanding of middle east, Levant and mid Asia affairs and rhetoric employed by all regimes that direction, and the capabilities of each regime in that sector, I have a suggestion that Israel can look after itself if a serious nuclear threat comes its way.

I do however object to Iranian development of nuclear power for a good and non-propaganda based reason :- its dirty. really dirty. just quite honestly filthy. unsafe, messes up the environment, and if normal fuel costs were not inflated (due to the US invasion of Iraq) perhaps Iranians could do without the nukes?

The propaganda coming out of the White House now at its bottom line only has strategic security sense, if Iran may not be trusted to recruit personel for its nuclear facilities. As we know neither Adecco nor Manpower will be handing out precarious contracts for the work, nor will BNFL be screening every employee andpaying them way over the odds in a region devoid of alternative employemnt, so we'll have to rely on the Iranians to employ "people who don't want to nick enriched uranium homer simpson style and bring it home, and then pass it on to their rabidly anti-western pals".

To be quite honest Ado - thats crap. The nuclear facilities of the former Soviet Union and those find in the EU are just as "insecure".

Oh, I don't have a problem with my culture. & heck! you don't know whether I'm black, white, chinese, jewish, muslim or budhist. You can't see me Ado. Thats one of the wonderful things about the internet. I could be wearing golden high heels, have really muscle bound calves and fake tan.

Yes indeed Ado, that could be me in the picture above.

Next!

by Ado - Realists Sat Apr 29, 2006 19:38 ado.c at oceanfree dot net

Thats just the reponse I expected gurggle.

Firstly I think most people can differentiate between Islamic fudamentalists and moderates, besides Iranians are not Arabs.
Secondly, the number zero first apperaed in India and was adopted by Arab traders.
Thirdly, Irrigation systems evolved independantly around the world, although early middle eastern systems are dated to be the first and no I have never been to Iran but I have worked with a few Iranians over the years and they are just like people everywhere else. As for the typo's? I'm not perfect but maybe thats why guys are SO right all the time because you obviously are.

Once again the anti-everything junkies confuse the issue. When Germany was invaded it wasn't with an agenda of the erradication of german history and culture, it was to rid the world of the National Socialistic cancer which had taken hold there. Iranian state sponsered terrorisim has been a serious threat for decades and the prospect of a fudamentalist government aquiring nuclear weapons is scary. I Don't hear other world governments calling for the Jewish race to pushed into the sea or for their population to bathe in their blood.

This country prospers under the protection of our like minded neighbours to the east and west of us. We have a lot to be thankful for.
Of course we should embrace other cultures but why do you despise your own kind so much. You live in a Liberal democracy where you can think, say, and practice what you want. Beware of wanting the downfall of your own culture because the alternatives out there are not good, I've worked in afew of them.
Ado

by The Quiet Man Sat Apr 29, 2006 19:06

Winston Churchill himself said: "Jaw Jaw" is better than "War War"

Now the Germans' agree:
"Talk to Iran, President Bush"

"We call on the U.S. administration to take the bold step of opening a direct dialogue with the Iranian government on the issue of Iran's nuclear program."

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,41....html

by gurggle Sat Apr 29, 2006 17:31

"the Kalif of Tehran will reverse our 1000 years of scientific and cultural endevours."

yep that would include the arabic zero, the arabic waterwheel and irrigation, and I suppose nuclear power as well - would it?

"Iran is country of ancient culture and wonderful people."
oh yes. you've been there, haven't you? got oodles of Iranian penpals, fluent Farsi, know your bam from your bim.
"But when the nuclear stick is being shaken at you, you have little option but to decapitate the fundamentalist beats."
why not make a snuff video?

"our women (even Punchestown ones) will be made into burkah wearing secondclass citizens"