What is Indymedia Ireland i nGaeilge

by RobbieS Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:11

For indymedia Ireland, I’d be inclined to go for either;

A.3.a. Saormeáin Éireann [sayr-myawin ay-rin]

or, moreso,

A.4.a..Meáin Saor Éireann [myawin sayr ay-rin].

This one can mean:
independend/free media Ireland,
Workers’ Media Ireland, or
Media of Free Ireland. Tthough the space between saor and Éireann would have to disappear for this to be true technically, it is intimated in the spoken version.

by John Cunningham Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:47

Those who know the language will recognise it anyway.

For Indymedia, what about An Saormheáin (The independent medium)

by RobbieS Fri Dec 23, 2005 13:19

An Saormheáin is great. I think though, that since Gaelic is spoken throughout the world, not just by Irish diaspora, that when they use 'an saormheáin' to signify indymedia in their everyday conversations, perhaps talking about indymedia in general, that we can specify here Saormheáin Éireann (indymedia ireland).

by conorobriain Fri Dec 23, 2005 13:39

I agree. there is no need for Eireann - and not having it makes the title much snappier.

by conorobriain Fri Dec 23, 2005 13:46

Sorry, I missed Robbie's last contribution before I posted. Saormheáin Éireann is really snappy too - and I take your point about An Ghaeilge not being confined to Ireland. So on reflection Saormheáin Éireann is my favourite so far.

by iosaf Fri Dec 23, 2005 14:57

great touch that. "in-de-mead-ya" strange how most people pronounce "in-di-mid-ja" the same regardless where they come from I've yet had a problem understanding another person say "'n-Deee'm'JYah" even if they're welsh who have terrible problems with the "j" sound. This is becuase they never have to make it other than in "jones" and it comes out a sort of "oh".

by John Cunningham Fri Dec 23, 2005 16:13

The Irish Press used to style itself Scéala Eireann. An advantage of adopting some version of this is that 'scéal' is more recognisable than 'meán' to people with limited Gaeilge

by Duine Fri Dec 23, 2005 18:30

Is maith an rud go bhfuil sibh ag caitheamh an méid sin dua ar ainm Gaeilge, cé go bhfeictear dom gur fimínteacht é. Tar éis an scéil, is beag duine a dhéanann tráchtaireachtaí Gaeilge anseo, agus i gcead dóibh, is bocht an caighdeán.
Dá raibh sibh ag cur ainm Fraincise nó Gearmáinise an rachfadh sibh i muinín foclóirí nó an bhfágfadh sibh an cheist faoi daoine a bhfuil an teanga ar a dtoil acu?

by Batman - Ogra Poblachtach Soisialach Fri Dec 23, 2005 19:05 info at rsym dot org

An mbeadh an Ghaeilge in aici leis an mBéárla ó seo ar aighaidh? Tá súil agam go mbeadh. Bás don Béarla.

by strategist Fri Dec 23, 2005 19:16

like if we're illegalised?

by C Ó Brolcháin Sat Dec 24, 2005 23:08

I previously made an attempt to translate IMC into Gaeilge for a friend. What I went with was 'Ionad [na] Cumarsáide Saoire'. I suppose you could also go with 'An t-Ionad Saorchumarsáide' or 'Ionad na Saorchumarsáide'.

I understand that some people want a snappy title, but 'meáin' is simply the plural of medium unless you qualify it, which is why the media is referred to as 'na meáin chumarsáide'.

by C Ó Brolcháin Sat Dec 24, 2005 23:10

I just noticed that the title is at the top of the index page as 'ionad cumarsáid saor'.

by C Ó Brolcháin Sat Dec 24, 2005 23:28

The correct forms for some of the suggestions made above would be...

- Saormheáin (na h-)Éireann [sayr-vawin (na h)ay-rin] - "The Indepdent Media of Ireland"

- Meáin Shaora (na h-)Éireann [myawin hayra (na h)ay-rin] - "The Independent/Free Media of Ireland"

- Meáin Shaoir (na h-)Éireann [myawin hayr (na h)ay-rin] - "The Media of the Free people of Ireland"

- Na Saormheáin [na sayr-vawin] - "The Inpedendent Media"

(I'm using the already established phonetics for these words.)

by RobbieS Sun Dec 25, 2005 19:01

ohn Cunningham wrot:
“The Irish Press used to style itself Scéala Eireann. An advantage of adopting some version of this is that 'scéal' is more recognisable than 'meán' to people with limited Gaeilge”.
Apart from some misgivings I’d have about following in the footsteps of the Irish Press, I think Saor-Scéala doesn’t reflect properly the opinion/analysis dimension of many stories, nor the discursive nature of the Comments.

Duine wrote:
“Ainm nua? [a New Name?]
[It’s a good thing that ye’re putting so much into finding an Irish name, even though, it seems to me to be hypocrisy. After the story, there aren’t many people making comments in Gaelic here, and with all due respect, the standard is poor.]

Not a new name, just a Gaelic equivalent.

The reason the story was written in English, was to make the process transparent and as accessible to as many as possible. The subject is not just of interest to Gaelic-speakers, since everyone may have to look at it. Also, I think it’s courteous to comment in the language of the story. There are a dirth of articles in Gaelic, but whos fault is that?

Don’t hate the media, be the media.

“[If ye were choosing a French or German name, would ye put your trust in dictionaries, or would you put the question to those who had a good command of the language?]”.

Saormheáin or saorchumarsáid etc. aren’t in any dictionary.

The floor is open. You neglected to leave your own recommendations or suggestions in your comment. A contribution from you on the matter would be welcome.


Batman - Ogra Poblachtach Soisialach [Socialist Republican Youth].
It’s a good thing.
“[Would the Gaelic be beside the English from now on? I hope it would. Death to the English language.”].

I hope it will be on the banner beside the English version at the top of the page. I don’t think English is on its last legs yet, so “Life to Gaelic”, might be a more realisable prayer.



Strategist wrote:
“Ought we not wait till having good reason to change the name?”.

like if we're illegalised?”.

The new Oscailt 3 operating system is nearly ready to take over from Oscailt 2, and one of the editors is just putting some finisheing touches to the graphics. Hence, the telescoping of the discussion on the editorial mailing list (which is open to everyone).


C Ó Brolcháin wrote:
“I understand that some people want a snappy title, but 'meáin' is simply the plural of medium unless you qualify it, which is why the media is referred to as 'na meáin chumarsáide'.”
For the indymedia Ireland equivalent, I think one word + Éireann is preferable. So, Saormheáin Éireann seems the best to me so far, and to conobrien. The translation is direct and literal, but since there’s no Gaelic for indymedia, it won’t take long for the associationi to become self-evident imo. ‘Meáin cumarsáide neamhspleách’ or whaatever, doesn’t reflect the simplicity of the logo imdymedia. IMC is a matter for another comment.

“The correct forms for some of the suggestions made above would be...

- Saormheáin (na h-)Éireann [sayr-vawin (na h)ay-rin] - "The Indepdent Media of Ireland"

- Meáin Shaora (na h-)Éireann [myawin hayra (na h)ay-rin] - "The Independent/Free Media of Ireland"

- Meáin Shaoir (na h-)Éireann [myawin hayr (na h)ay-rin] - "The Media of the Free people of Ireland"

- Na Saormheáin [na sayr-vawin] - "The Inpedendent Media"

(I'm using the already established phonetics for these words.)”.

Wow :-), I thought some of the declensions might be a bit out. This clarifies the options a bit more accurately. Saormheáin Éireann still gets my vote, for reasons of concision, aesthetic and originality.

by rinagaeilge Tue Dec 27, 2005 00:20 rinagaeilge at hotmail dot com

MAith sibh lads. Roghnóinn féin "Saormhéain Éireann"

by C Ó Brolcháin Tue Dec 27, 2005 20:30

"The translation is direct and literal, but since there’s no Gaelic for indymedia, it won’t take long for the associationi to become self-evident imo. ‘Meáin cumarsáide neamhspleách’ or whaatever, doesn’t reflect the simplicity of the logo imdymedia."

I agree with you on that. We shouldn't get too caught up trying to ape the English word-for-word. Plus it would probably sound terrible anyway. 'Saormheáin Éireann' conveys what needs to be put across well enough anyway.

by Anthony G Wed Dec 28, 2005 18:20

Looks like "Saormheáin Éireann" is the preferred name. Out of all the names suggested it would be my personal favourite. Along with the reasoning already articulated by others above, the use of the word "saor" could also reflect Open Publishing's inspiration by the Free Software movement.

Nice work, Robbie for doing much of the groundwork on this.

by Duine Wed Dec 28, 2005 19:07

Scríobh RobbieS:

Duine wrote:
“Ainm nua? [a New Name?]
[It’s a good thing that ye’re putting so much into finding an Irish name, even though, it seems to me to be hypocrisy. After the story,

(Truaiplis é seo: tar éis an scéil=after all)

there aren’t many people making comments in Gaelic here, and with all due respect, the standard is poor.]

Not a new name, just a Gaelic equivalent.
Gabh mo leithscéil, má bhí mo chéad teachtaireacht ró-ghonta. Is annamh a bhíonn am agam bheith anseo. Chuardaigh mé Indymedia sna teangacha eile agus feictear dom go bhfuil an focal sin iontu ar fad, chomh fada is a thig liom tuiscint a bhaint as na suíomhanna. Mar sin, "branda" nó "trádmharc" atá sa bhfocal "Indymedia" amhail Le Monde nó Der Spiegel nó Nike nó Volkswagen. Ní ghnáth aistriú a chur ar fhocail mar sin. Comhartha aitheantais é.

The reason the story was written in English, was to make the process transparent and as accessible to as many as possible. The subject is not just of interest to Gaelic-speakers, since everyone may have to look at it.

Tuigim duit. Féach an truiplis sa Bhéarla a chur tú ar a scríobh mé thuas.

Also, I think it’s courteous to comment in the language of the story.

Seo ceist eile ar fad, ach ní dóigh liom go mbíonn sé den mhíbhéas. Cloím leis an Ghaeilge cionn is go raibh leideanna timpeall ar an suíomh seo nuair a tháinig mé air i dtosach nach raibh doicheall roimh Gaeilge. Má fhanaim go gcuirfear bleid orm i nGaeilge , beidh mé ag feitheamh.

There are a dirth of articles in Gaelic, but whos fault is that?
Is trua liom é sin freisin. Ar an drochuair ní iriseoir mé, níl mé in áit na cumhachta nó ní chloisim scéalta. Bím i muinín Indymedia is na meáin faoi choinne sin.

Don’t hate the media, be the media.
Ní fuath liom é, ach tá sé ró-luath dom bheith sna mheáin go fóill.

“[If ye were choosing a French or German name, would ye put your trust in dictionaries, or would you put the question to those who had a good command of the language?]”.

Saormheáin or saorchumarsáid etc. aren’t in any dictionary.
Féach a scíobh mé i dtaobh "bhranda"

The floor is open.
Tá mé buíoch díbh. Is mór agam oscailteacht an tsuímh seo.

You neglected to leave your own recommendations or suggestions in your comment. A contribution from you on the matter would be welcome.

Féach arís a scíobh mé i dtaobh "bhranda". Coinnigí an toise idirnáisiúnta leis an focal Indymedia. Cad faoi Indymedia na hÉireann?
Ionad Cumarsáide Saoire nó Ionad Saorchumarsáide ?

by Darren Fri Dec 30, 2005 09:06

I think more of the site should be bilingual e.g the placenames at the top of the page- Dublin, Limerick etc and the about us links etc.

by Chekov Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:43

we're going to be looking for somebody to actually do the translation very soon. Are you volunteering?

by Niall Harnett Fri Dec 30, 2005 17:09

I like 'An Saormheáin'.
Don't like 'Saormeáin na hÉireann'.

by Chekov Fri Dec 30, 2005 17:14

'An Saormheáin' has a nice air of importance about it and I don't think it is presumptuous for us to specify imc.ie without the adjective. We can use the 'na hEireann bit in the translation of independent media centre - ireland, but a concise name as a translation of indymedia would be nice.

by Darren Fri Dec 30, 2005 17:20 darrensmacanphriora at hotmail dot com

Chekov,

I will get it done within a week or two after I am giving the info. My organisation, Gael-Taca, has a free translation service, providing there isn't too much material.

Email me when yous are ready and tell me exactly what you want translated.

Beannacht

Darren

by C Ó Brolcháin Fri Dec 30, 2005 20:09 ciaranobrolchain at hotmail dot com

Chekov, I would be willing to help out in any way I can with translations as well.

by C Ó Brolcháin Fri Dec 30, 2005 20:11

'Saormheáin' is the plural form so it would be 'Na Saormheáin' instead of 'An'.

by RobbieS Sun Jan 01, 2006 20:50

I had thought about Indymedia na hÉireann - indymedia coming from Latin and Greek anyway; but I thought we could be a little bit more creative than that. Indymedia sites with other langauges seem to use indymedia in the context of web address (e.g., indymedia.hu), but nowhere else.

I think na Saormheáin is great for talking about indymedia generally in Gaelic, anywhere in the world; and it is a world-wide language. Hence, imo, Saormheáin Éireann is a useful clarifier

my thoughts on imc coming soon - Cuid a Dó mar a dheirfeá.

héis a scéil a dhuine, is linnse go léir an teanga Gaelach. Níl ag fear bodhar ach Ián a chluas a thabhairt leis

Ba beagní é an éalang a thug tú faoi aire de i m’aistrichán. Níl aon duine go foirfear in aon teaga sa domhain, mar shumpla, baintear a lán úsáid as fóiclóirí aon-teangach ar fud na chruinne. Níl aon cliarlathas anseo, go háirid i nGaeilge leais a cuid cainiúint, blasanna agus gramadachaí áitiúla.

De d’ainneoin, níorbh aistear dom an méad thuas a rá trí’n Ghaeilge – níl easpa teanga fáth mo chuid Béarla anseo. Má tá an fhlúirse gann agam, cén dochar? Go gcoinnítear smacht ar saineolaithe, deirimse. Ach nach deas é a bheith ag breannú ar diaspóireacht daonlathach ar siúl – oscailte le ‘chuile dhuine. De réir sin, b’fhearr liom labhairt leat i mBéarla anseo. Freisin, mar a dúirt mé, is nós béasach é labhairt i bpríomhtheanga an agaillaimh más féidir leat. Cuir i gcás comhrá sa phub. An dtosófá ag cur isteach as Gaeilge ar béarlóireacht na stráinséirí a bheadh fútsa ansin?

“ Cloím leis an Ghaeilge cionn is go raibh leideanna timpeall ar an suíomh seo nuair a tháinig mé air i dtosach nach raibh doicheall roimh Gaeilge. Má fhanaim go gcuirfear bleid orm i nGaeilge , beidh mé ag feitheamh”.

Ní hí an Ghaeilge a chuaigh ó chion ón gcéad uair a tharla duit Saormheáin Éireann, b’fhéidir, ach tá caighdeáiní eile níos tábhachtaí ná sin ann. Is mó an fiúntas ná an stíl. I mo thuairim féin, níl leideanna á iarraidh ach scéalta féinig as an Ghaeilinn. Ar a laghad, níl ort fannacht go gcuirfear bleid ort anois, ach is dóigh liom féin go bhfuil do lán le thabhairt agat mar iriseoir Gaelach (nó dhá-theangach más mian leat :-)).

S’é an prionsapal ar mbun indymedia ar a gcéad dul síos ná go bhfuil scéalta le fáil ar fud na háite is gurb iad féin na scéalta is spéisiúla. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil éinne as na scríobhnóirí a mbíonn anseo in áiteachaí na cumhachta, ach ní mó ná go gcailleann siad ainiarmhairtí cinnidh truaillithe ina dtimpeall.

Don’t hate the media, be the media.
“Ní fuath liom é, ach tá sé ró-luath dom bheith sna mheáin go fóill.”

Níor airigh mé a leithéid riamh mar leithscéil. Well, d’airigh; ach ró-luath, ró-dhéanach, go dtaga thar aniar. Déanaimid ár gcuid de réir ár gcumais agus de réir an ama a mbíonns againn.

by Duine Eile Tue Jan 03, 2006 18:15

Just to throw my own into the debate, as someone pointed out on an earlier posting, it doesn't have to be a direct translation or a calque; in fact that type of translation can sound very artificial (but then again, it only takes a little while to get used to something new). I think "Saorchumarsáid Éireann" is snappy, sounds natural, and meaningful - one doesn't have to look twice at the word "Saorchumarsáid" to decipher what is meant by it, whereas "Saormheáin" for example, is a bit of a tongue-twister.

by Duine Wed Jan 04, 2006 13:28

A RobbieS,
Seans go bhfuil tú ag tagairt dom anseo:

"Ba beagní é an éalang a thug tú faoi aire de i m’aistrichán.
+Níor mhaígh mé gur mhórní a bhí ann, ach mheas mé gur lean tú ar aghaidh ag tabhairt freagra ar rud nár dhúirt mé.

" Níl aon duine go foirfear in aon teaga sa domhain, mar shumpla, baintear a lán úsáid as fóiclóirí aon-teangach ar fud na chruinne.
+Tagaim leat.

"Níl aon cliarlathas anseo, go háirid i nGaeilge leais a cuid cainiúint, blasanna agus gramadachaí áitiúla.
+☺Ó! Struchtúr na Muslamach nó na mBúdaíoch is aithris duit seachas na hEaglaise Caitlicigh? (Greann!)

"De d’ainneoin, níorbh aistear dom an méad thuas a rá trí’n Ghaeilge – níl easpa teanga fáth mo chuid Béarla anseo. Má tá an fhlúirse gann agam, cén dochar? Go gcoinnítear smacht ar saineolaithe, deirimse. Ach nach deas é a bheith ag breannú ar diaspóireacht daonlathach ar siúl – oscailte le ‘chuile dhuine.
+Mar a dúirt mé, tuigim duit, ach tugaim faoi dheara , i gcónaí, gurb é an teanga is laige a chailleann. Ós rud é go bhfoghlaimtear an Ghaeilge ag lucht an Bhéarla in Éirinn, tuigfidh siad mo chuid cainte nó beidh aithne acu ar dhuine a dhéanfadh teanga dóibh. Dar ndóigh, dar liom, tá cead acu an teanga oifigiúil eile a scríobh.

" De réir sin, b’fhearr liom labhairt leat i mBéarla anseo. Freisin, mar a dúirt mé, is nós béasach é labhairt i bpríomhtheanga an agaillaimh más féidir leat. Cuir i gcás comhrá sa phub. An dtosófá ag cur isteach as Gaeilge ar béarlóireacht na stráinséirí a bheadh fútsa ansin?
+Sea, seo an rud, dar ndóigh. Is daoine bhéasacha na Gaeil, sin an fáth a chasann siad ar an mBéarla, gach uair a mbíonn duine gan Ghaeilge ar an gcomhluadar. Níl aon rud cearr leis sin, ach go mbíonn thiar ar an nGaeilge an t-am ar fad. Caitear lei mar teanga den dara ghrád. Ní maith liom géilleadh don chleachtadh seo

" “ Cloím leis an Ghaeilge cionn is go raibh leideanna timpeall ar an suíomh seo nuair a tháinig mé air i dtosach nach raibh doicheall roimh Gaeilge. Má fhanaim go gcuirfear bleid orm i nGaeilge , beidh mé ag feitheamh”.

Ní hí an Ghaeilge a chuaigh ó chion ón gcéad uair a tharla duit Saormheáin Éireann, b’fhéidir, ach tá caighdeáiní eile níos tábhachtaí ná sin ann.
+ní raibh mé ag cáineadh éinne, ach a rá tuige a chlaoím le mo theangasa.

"Is mó an fiúntas ná an stíl. I mo thuairim féin, níl leideanna á iarraidh ach scéalta féinig as an Ghaeilinn.
+Ní mian liom ach tagairt a dhéanamh ar gach scéal is spéis liom i mo theanga fhéin.

"Ar a laghad, níl ort fannacht go gcuirfear bleid ort anois, ach is dóigh liom féin go bhfuil do lán le thabhairt agat mar iriseoir Gaelach (nó dhá-theangach más mian leat :-)).
+Níl mé cinnte.

"S’é an prionsapal ar mbun indymedia ar a gcéad dul síos ná go bhfuil scéalta le fáil ar fud na háite is gurb iad féin na scéalta is spéisiúla. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil éinne as na scríobhnóirí a mbíonn anseo in áiteachaí na cumhachta, ach ní mó ná go gcailleann siad ainiarmhairtí cinnidh truaillithe ina dtimpeall.
+Úmph! Sea! Tuigim duit. Ach tá altanna anseo agus an méid taighde a mbíonn taobh thiar dóibh, bhuel, cuireann sé ionadh orm an dua a chaitheadh leo.Comhghairdeas libh.

"Don’t hate the media, be the media.
“Ní fuath liom é, ach tá sé ró-luath dom bheith sna mheáin go fóill.”

"Níor airigh mé a leithéid riamh mar leithscéil. Well, d’airigh; ach ró-luath, ró-dhéanach, go dtaga thar aniar. Déanaimid ár gcuid de réir ár gcumais agus de réir an ama a mbíonns againn."
+Tá an ceart agat

by Seán Fri Jan 13, 2006 05:43

Any timeframe Chekov on when the site will be translated?

by Bricriú Wed Jan 18, 2006 01:37

Cuireann se mearbhall orm go bhfuil tú ag iarraidh Gaeilge a chur ar ainm an tsuíomh seo cé nach bhfuil ainm na teanga féin ar eolas agat. Ní "Gaelic" atá ar an teanga seo i mBéarla ach "Irish". Thall in Albain a labhraítear "Gaelic", ní anseo in Éirinn. Ach más mian leat ainm a chur ar an suíomh seo sa "Gaelic" is é an leagan a mholfainn ná "Meadhanan Tràilleil Bhreatainn-an-Iar".

by RobbieS Wed Jan 18, 2006 03:36

A bhuarthóir, s'é an focail Béarla ag an teanga hAilbinnís ná Scotts Gallic, agus ar an teanga 'Irish' ná Gaelic. Déan iarracht ar Google leob, agus nach bhfuil sórt daonlachas ag baint den cinneadh sin.

Ar ais go dtí an féille leat, níl aon rí le fáil anseo.

by Duine Wed Jan 18, 2006 17:32

A Bhricriú,

Ní thagaim leat. Ceadaigh leis an Oxford English Dictionary.

by Bricriú Fri Jan 20, 2006 02:27

Níl an Béarla féin ar do thoil agat, gan trácht ar an nGaeilge: is é an chiall atá le "Gallic" ná "Francach"! Tagraíonn "Gaelic" don teanga cheilteach a labhraitear in Albain. Tá díospóireacht shuimiúl faoin teanga sin ar siúl ar shuíomh BBC na hAlban faoi láthair. Féach:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4396660.stm

"Irish" atá ar an nGaeilge i mBéarla. Breathnaigh ar chlúdach fhoclóir Uí Dhónaill mura gcreideann tú mé! Comhartha dímheasa (nó aineolais) is ea é "Gaelic" a thabhairt ar an nGaeilge.

by RobbieS Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:37

Cuir uait do chuid teacthaireachtaí aibéiseach.

Níl mórán diffríocht idir an dhá 'Ghaelics' ar aon chaoi. Arís, cuir Scotts Gallic isteach sa Google, agus tabhair do thuairimí ar príomhábhar an téad seo dá mbeadh uait teacht ar ais.

Déan do buarathóiríocht áit éigin eile, nó cuir dúinn do smaointe ar indymedia i nGaeilge - ná bac leis an béarla má chuireann sé isteach leat chomh mór sin.

by Bricriú Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:47

A.3.a. Saormeáin Éireann (sic)
Recte: "Saormheáin Éireann"
Ach is é "na hÉireann" a deirtear i nGaeilge labhartha an lae inniu. An fhoirm gan an t-alt, is foirm stairiúil í.

A.3.b. Saormeáin na hÉireann. (sic)
Recte: "Saormheáin na hÉireann."

A.4.a. Meáin Saor Éireann
Media of the free/workers Ireland
Chuirfeadh an ceann sin an cat ag gáire! Is annamh a úsáidtear "saor" sa chiall "duine saor". Is é an gnáthchiall atá leis ná "ceardaí". Agus dá n-úsáidfí féin is é an rud a bheadh ann ná "Meáin Shaoir na hÉireann".

B.1.a. ionad cumarsáid saor (sic)
Recte: "ionad cumarsáide saor" (más ag tagairt don ionad atá "saor")
nó "ionad cumarsáide saoire" (más ag tagairt don chumarsáid ata "saor")

B.1.b. ionad cumarsáide shor (sicker)
Recte: Féach thuas

B.1.c. ionad cumarsáidí shaor (sicker still - dig the designer lenition!)
Recte: "ionad cumarsáidí saora" (más ag tagairt don chumarsáid ata "saor")
nó "ionad cumarsáidí saor" (más ag tagairt don ionad ata "saor")
ach ní úsáidfí an uimhir iolra de "cumarsáid" sa chomhthéacs sin.

B.2.d. Áit Saorchumarsáide Éireann (sic)
B.2.e. Áit Saorchumarsáidí Éireann (sic)
B.2.f. Áit Saorchumarsáide na hÉireann (sic)
B.2.g. Áit Soarchumarsáidí na hÉireann (sic)
ní úsáidfí "áit" i gcomhthéacs mar sin.

B.3.a. Áit Saormeán Éireann (sic enough)
3.b. Áit Saormeán na hÉireann (sic enough too)
ní úsáidfí "áit" i gcomhthéacs mar sin.

B.4.a. Áit Meán Saor Éireann (sic)
B.4.b. Áit Meán Saor na hÉireann (sic)
ní úsáidfí "áit" i gcomhthéacs mar sin.

B.5.a. Cumann Saormeán Éireann (sic)
B.5.b. Cumann Saormeán na hÉireann (sic)
Recte: "Cumann Shaormheáin na hÉireann" (más iad na meáin a bhaineann le hÉirinn) nó
"Cumann Saormheán na hÉireann" (más é an cumann a bhaineann le hÉirinn)

B.5.c. Cumann na Meán Saor
Óra a thiarcais! Tá ceann amháin de na moltaí a bhfuil cuma nádúrtha go leor uirthi!!
Ní chreidfinn é muna mbeadh sé feicthe agam!!!

An uair dheireanach a chonaic mé an oiread seo "saineolais" gan bhunús caite le chéile in aon charn aoiligh amháin bhí Colin Powell ag taispeáint grianghrafanna de WMDs na hIaráice ag cruinniú de Chomhairle Slándála na Náisiún Aontaithe.

by Bricriú Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:17

"Cuir uait do chuid teacthaireachtaí aibéiseach."
Níl an focal "aibéiseach" ann.

"Níl mórán diffríocht idir an dhá 'Ghaelics' ar aon chaoi."
Ora, is an bhfuil siad tar éis "Gaelic" a fhoghlaim in Albain le lá anuas? "Gallic" a bhíodh acu ansin go dtí inné! Nach cliste an dream iad na hAlbanaigh?

" Arís, cuir Scotts Gallic isteach sa Google,"
Níl an focal "Scotts" ann. Baineann an focal "Gallic" leis an bhFrainc. "Gaelic" a labhraítear in Albain.

" agus tabhair do thuairimí ar príomhábhar an téad seo dá mbeadh uait teacht ar ais."
Seo an rud ar mhaith leat a rá b'fheidir:
"agus tabhair do thuairimí ar phríomhábhar an téid seo má tá uait teacht ar ais."

"Déan do buarathóiríocht áit éigin eile,"
Níl an focal "buarathóiríocht" ann.

"nó cuir dúinn do smaointe ar indymedia i nGaeilge"
Nach bhfuil sé sin déanta agam cheana?

"- ná bac leis an béarla má chuireann sé isteach leat chomh mór sin."
"leis an mBéarla" nó "leis an Bhéarla"; "má chureann sé isteach ort"
Ní chuireann an Béarla isteach orm in aon chor. Tá meas agam ar gach teanga. Ba mhaith liom é dá léireofaí meas éigin ar an nGaeilge ar an suíomh seo.

Tá dhá mholadh agam duit go hachomair:
1. Tabhair a hainm ceart ar theanga dhúchais na tíre seo nuair a thagraíonn tú di as Béarla. Ní "Gaelic" ata uirthi, ná "Erse", ná "Celtic", ná "Leprechaun language", ach "IRISH".
2. Más mian leat ainm i nGaeilge a chur ar an suíomh seo, fág an obair faoi dhuine éigin a bhfuil an teanga sin ar a thoil aige.

by RobbieS Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:23

So I take it you're for Saormheáin na hÉireann for Indymedia Ireland, and , Cumann na Meán Saor for Independent Media Centre.

Says something about your anonymous confidence though, that you have to be so abusive.

What's really sick about your spelling corrections is that, because of visual impairement, I have only recently gained access to Gaelic spelling. We didn't get extra points for having no access to Leaving Cert Gaelic book or dictionaries.

The above was a sincere effort to stimulate debate /on the subject/, and was never a claim to expertise.

If you'd like to give me a hand scanning in dictionaries for free, accessible distribution to the world, my email is above.

The langauge is also ours to change, so I'll go with democracy rather than hierarchy; however, I do think Saormheáin na hÉireann sounds better for the (na h - ailt...).

by RobbieS Fri Jan 20, 2006 05:29

d'fhoghlaim mé mo chuid Gaeilge ag obair in Inis Oírr cúig shamhradh as a chéile.

Sa cheantar sin, deirtear "ar an mbord srll. So, abair liom faoi na riallachaí a Bhricí.

Tuige nach mbeadh focal sa teanga Gaelach nár chuala tú riamh?

I mo cheanntar féin i Loch Garman, tá beagnach trí chéad focail Gaeilge le cloisteáil sa ghnáth-theanga laethúil, atá fágthaí as an sean-teanga Yola. Seans nár chuala tú na leithéidí.

so, scread uaithne ar na seaneolaí aibéiseach cé go mbeadh siad as an túisceart.

by Bricriú Fri Jan 20, 2006 13:01

Dá ndéarfá go raibh fadhb ar leith agat maidir leis an litriú ní cháinfinn do chuid litrithe. Mar atá sé, formhór na mbotún a luaigh mé is botúin ghramadaí iad seachas botúin litrithe.

"So I take it you're for Saormheáin na hÉireann for Indymedia Ireland, and , Cumann na Meán Saor for Independent Media Centre."

Tá "Cumann na Meán Saor" ceart ó thaobh na litrithe agus na gramadaí de, ach ní aistriúchán cruinn é. An bhfuil "cumann" (society, association) ann? Má tá, d'fhéadfaí é a úsáid. Mura bhfuil, bheadh "Ionad na Meán Saor" níos fearr, nó "Saorionad na Meán" - ag brath ar cé acu ata saor - an "Centre" nó na "Media".

"Says something about your anonymous confidence though, that you have to be so abusive."

An dtabharfaí "Polak" ar Pholainneach? An dtabharfá "Rusky" ar Rúiseach (luaim dhá fhocal atá go breá sa chomhthéacs ceart ach atá maslach sa chomhthéacs mícheart)? Thabharfainn geall nach dtabharfá ach go gcuirfeá stró ort féin téarma ar bit a bhfuil blas an dímheasa air a sheachaint i gcás na n-eachtrannach. Mar an gcéanna, is é "Irish" an t-ainm ceart ar theanga na hÉireann agus is masla don teanga é "Gaelic" a thabhairt uirthi. Tuileann masla masla. Ró-mhúinte ar fad a bhíonn lucht labhartha na Gaeilge i láthair a leithéide.

"What's really sick about your spelling corrections is that, because of visual impairement, I have only recently gained access to Gaelic spelling. We didn't get extra points for having no access to Leaving Cert Gaelic book or dictionaries."

Níl "Gaelic" luaite ar chúrsa na hardteistiméireachta - nó an bhfuil droch-éisteacht ort freisin?

by RobbieS Fri Jan 20, 2006 14:45

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/stories/revival.htm

"Connradh na Gaeilge (the Gaelic League) was founded by Dr. Douglas Hyde and Eoin McNeill in 1893 for the restoration of the Irish language which they realised was dying out completely at that stage".

Dictionaries aren't gospel, but consultation of one might be handy here. Scotts Gallic is nominative, the Irish language is descriptive, Gaelic is a term which can be used for either, I suppose, but, but GAA etc. refers to Irish culture, so for someone to get worked up about misunderstanding its meaning in this context is a distraction. Anyway, both are Scottish, historically speaking (Scotti being the Latin word for Irish people).

I'm writing in English here so that most can understand me, and because I can't be bothered with attacks from people who confuse style with substance.

An open transparrent debate is more conducive to issues relevant to everyone, than one controlled by gatekeepers.

Although I find it much easier to write in English, such pedantry and badgery (does that word exist?), are an added dissuasion from using Gaelic right now. The Irish language is the ultimate post-modern language because it has resisted attempts at homogeneity; it embraces localisms; it is more figurative than literal; meaning depends on context.

Associations don't have to be official. FF might be associated with corruption, but it's not official. Thee are a group of editors, so in that sense, there is a core; and I suppose that's what's meant by "one of IMC".

I think though, it's more of an open cumann than an ionad (since the centre is virtual and abstract). "ionad" might cause people to think it's a specific location being referred to.


shortlist now seems to be:
for indymedia Ireland
Saormheáin na hÉireann
Saormheáin Éireann

for Independent Media Centre
Cumann na Meán Saor
Ionad na Meán Saor
Saorionad na Meán

by Duine Fri Jan 20, 2006 16:37

Maith thú, a RobbieS.

Chuir tú na driseacha cosáin díot.

Is maith liom an gearrliosta.

by Bricriú Tue Jan 24, 2006 00:05

"Connradh na Gaeilge (the Gaelic League) was founded by Dr. Douglas Hyde and Eoin McNeill in 1893 for the restoration of the Irish language which they realised was dying out completely at that stage".

Níl aon locht ar an abairt thuas: tugtar a hainm ceart don Ghaeilge ann. Maidir leis an ainm "Gaelic League", níl aon locht ar sin ach an oiread, Is teanga Ghaelach í an Ghaeilge, agus is teanga Cheilteach í freisin. Mar an gcéanna, is teanga Ghearmánach é an Béarla, is teanga Laidneach í an Spáinnis, is teanga Shlavach í an Rúisis, srl. Ach ní chiallaíonn sé sin gur chóir "german" a thabhairt ar an mBéarla, ná "Latin" a thabhairt ar an Spáinnis, ná "Slavonic" a thabhairt ar an Rúisis. Níor chóir "Gaelic" ná "Celtic" a thabhairt ar an nGaeilge ach an oiread. "Irish" is ainm di.

"Dictionaries aren't gospel, but consultation of one might be handy here. Scotts Gallic is nominative"

Ar mhaith leat breathnú i bhfoclóir? Ceart go leor más ea. Seo a ndeirtear faoi "Gallic" i "Chamber's English Dictionary": "relating to Gaul or the ancient Gauls; relating to France or the French". Níl tagairt dá laghad ann d'Albain.

"I'm writing in English here so that most can understand me,"
Sin é - géilleadh eile don impiriúlachas cultúir!

" and because I can't be bothered with attacks from people who confuse style with substance."
Baineann tábhacht le hainmneacha.

"An open transparrent debate is more conducive to issues relevant to everyone, than one controlled by gatekeepers."
Bíonn plé i mBéarla "oscailte" agus plé i nGaeilge "dúnta" - an é sin an rud ata á rá agat? Níl ansin ach seafóid. Tá an Ghaeilge gach pioc chomh hoscailte le teanga ar bith ar domhan. Is cá bhfuil an "gatekeeper" seo dar thagair tú? Cad is ainm dó? Cén smacht atá aige ar an bhfóram seo? Níl d'airm chatha agam anseo ach loighic is focail.

"The Irish language is the ultimate post-modern language "
Oh pu-lease! I mean really! Po-mo is sooo 1990s! Cacamas intleachtúil a bhí san iarnua-aoiseachas ó thús go deireadh, cacamas a d'oir do roinnt acadúlaithe a bhí ag iarraidh dréimire an hacadúlachta a dhreapadh sna 1990aí, ach ta a bport seinnte. Níl aon chreidiúint fágtha acu anois. Scientific empiricism rools OK!

"because it has resisted attempts at homogeneity; it embraces localisms; it is more figurative than literal; meaning depends on context."
Is fíor go bhfuil canúintí láidre sa Ghaeilge, mar atá san Iodáilis ags sa Ghearmáinis freisin. Seachas sin, níl sa mheid thuas ach rómánsachas gan dealramh. An saghas ruda a scríobhadh Matthew Arnold faoin "romantic Celt" sa 19ú céad. Chuirfeadh sé múisc ar thurasóir Meiriceánach na leathanta seo.

by Seán Mon Jan 30, 2006 18:56

Tá politics.ie an mhaith don Ghaeilge.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/viewforum.php?f=96

by Gaeilge Tue Jan 31, 2006 14:37

You should ask the professionals to provide appropriate Irish-language titles (rather than translations as such) for Indymedia, etc. An Coiste Téarmaíochta are the official creators and verifiers of Irish terminology - some of their work can be viewed at www.acmhainn.ie - they have a board and full-time terminologists who do this for a living and you might even see "indymedia" making its way into the dictionary! Any queries can be sent to: An Rúnaí, An Coiste Téarmaíochta, Foras na Gaeilge, 27 Sr. Fhreidric, Thuaidh, BÁC 1 or e-mailed to: tearmai@forasnagaeilge.ie
"

by An tUasal Íseal - Na Comhluadair bheo Tue Feb 21, 2006 20:50 reamonnlss at eircom dot net 205 Br Chluain Life BÁC3 0879226669

Bhuel a Chairde chóra -

Aistriúchán den teideal go Gaeilge? 'Saor' as a prefix is OK. {m.sh. (e.g.) Saorstát Éireann}. 'The media' is 'na meáin' ('chumarsáide' being understood). A prefix aspirates - so 'Independent Media Ireland' becomes (pretty well as suggested b4): Saormheáin Éireann
Go soirbhí Dia díbh.

by Darren Mac an Phríora Tue May 30, 2006 02:11

Chekov,

Any developments on making the heading of the site bilingual?

Beannacht

Darren

by RobbieS Tue May 30, 2006 05:43 robbiesin at gmail dot com

I've begun an indymedia translation. Constructive criticism welcome as usual.

comma "," is another suggested alternative.

features = barrscéalta, gné-ailteanna
newswire = nuachtlann, nuachtán, nuachtamhairc,
events = imeachtaí
publish = foilsigh
about us = maidir linn
contact us = labhair linn, teagmhaigh linn

enter search text here = cuir téacs á iarraidh anseo

navigation = stiúradh, treonna, treoir,

opinion & analysis = tuairim & léirmheas

latest comments = trácht is déanaí

gallery = pictiúrlann
archives = cartlann
search = cuardaigh
IMC network = líonra IMC
openwire = oscaltán, oscaltamhairc, ár scéalta ar lug,

Documents = Doiciméid
…
editorial guidelines = treoirlínte eagarthóireachta
privacy = príobháideacht,
disclaimer = ar dliteanas
get involved = bí linn
donate = bronn
open publishing = foilsiú oscailte, foilsitheoireacht oscailte
upcoming events = dialann imeachtaí [i.e., events diary].
new events = imeachtaí nua
other press = meáin eile
more>> = tuileadh>>, níos mó>>
user preferences = sainroghanna pearsanta [personal preferences]
language = teanga
text size = clómhéid

Make this my indymeida front page = Bíodh seo mo phríomhleathanach ar saormheáin

feeds = fothaí

full story & comments = scéal iomlán & tráchta

last = deireanach

Monday = Luan
Tuesday = Márt
Wednesday = Céadaoin
Thursday = Déardaoin
Friday = Aoine
Saturday = Satharn
Sunday = Domhnach

January = Eanáir
February = Feabhra
March = Márta
April = Aibreán
May = Bealtaine
June = Meitheamh
July = Iúil [capital i]úil
August = Lúnasa
September = Meán Fómhair
October = Deireadh Fómhair
November = Samhain
December = Nollaig

stories>> = scéalta>>

view stories by date = brean ar scéalta ó thaobh, de réir dáta
view features = brean ar barrscéalta
view latest comments = brean ar tráchta is déanaí
view images = brean ar íomhánna

© 2001-2006 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not

©2001-2006 Lárionad Meán Neamhspleách na hÉireann
Mura bhforáleann an t-údar a mhalairt, tá gach uile inneachar saor chun athúsáid, athchló agus athchraolú neamhthráchtála a bhaint as, ar an idirlín agus in aon áit eile.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I've literally just got half of front page done. Will get round to other half soon, I hope. Someone else might have a go before I get round it it, or there might even be co-operation by email meitheal-style.

Thoughts on why should we be bothered with Irish will prob'ly follow some time /afte/r that. It won't be absolutist, nor hierarchical, but a /post/-modernist view of the relevances and levels of meaning in Irish Gaelic today.

by Darren Mac an Phríora Tue May 30, 2006 20:59

Its very hard to translate languages directly. You've done a good job. I think the above should be gone with.