Complaint against Pat Rabbitte rejected

by Dublin Exile Fri Nov 25, 2005 13:34

The committee finding is not surprising. If it had gone the other way im sure Declan would have been the most surprised of all.

What is has shown is that the Party Leader handled this situation very badly indeed and hopefully has learned the lesson that the Labour Party is not the WP or the Democratic Left, we won't be shoved around by an overbearing or autocratic leadership style.

The Labour Party and its democratic instincts have been around for much longer than Pat Rabbitte or any of the micro groups who post here regularly. Pat won't be around for ever but the Labour Party will go on representing the interests of the working class in Ireland regardless.

I want to challenge Dave on one issue, calling John O Briens integrity into question is unfair and should be withdrawn. John is a lifelong member of the Labour Party unlike either Pat or Declan, he is also a life long trade unionist who has served the workers of this country very very well. You don't know what stand he took on either of the decisions made and its wrong to call his integrity into question.

Everyone who sits on the internal organising committees of the Labour Party be it at Branch, Constituency or National level does so voluntarily and at great personal expense, without people like John O Brien we would cease to exist.

by Gobsmacked Fri Nov 25, 2005 13:43

"I want to challenge Dave on one issue, calling John O Briens integrity into question is unfair and should be withdrawn. John is a lifelong member of the Labour Party unlike either Pat or Declan, he is also a life long trade unionist who has served the workers of this country very very well. You don't know what stand he took on either of the decisions made and its wrong to call his integrity into question."

Is there a hierachy of Labour membership? (lifelong etc,)
Of course I'm not surprised to hear this guff from Dermot's number 1 fan.
Did Dermot have a vote at the committee seen as how he the secretary?

by Dublin Exile Fri Nov 25, 2005 14:38

There is no hierarchy of membership, but 'lifelong' is a description of some peoples membership. Does that make you feel uncomfortable? I wonder why?

Secondly, im not a 'fan' of Dermot Lacey, I'm a friend. We have had our differences on issues in the past and we will continue to, we are both members of a party that allows things like that to happen!

Unlike the trots and the DL we both appreciate that a healthy political organisation can accomodate differences of opinion on policy, structures, and proceedures, and that we are all free to express our views as we work towards the success of the party at the ballot box.

Finally, if you really are 'Gobsmacked' by anything that appears in this thread perhaps you should take up some other less shocking interest than politics?

Crochet perhaps?

by Joe Take Fri Nov 25, 2005 14:40

"Pat won't be around for ever but the Labour Party will go on representing the interests of the working class in Ireland regardless."

- Course they will, handing the blueshirts a lifeline is in the best interests of the working class. Are you by any chance a certain leftie baiting ,bin tax lovin ex "Lord" Mayor in disguise?

by Gobsmacked Fri Nov 25, 2005 14:56

"Unlike the trots and the DL we both appreciate that a healthy political organisation can accomodate differences of opinion on policy, structures, and proceedures, and that we are all free to express our views as we work towards the success of the party at the ballot box."

Wakey, wakey DL don't exist anymore. In your perceived hierarchy don't you accept that. Is anybody who had any other political affiliation tainted by 'sins of the past'. Very Stalinist. I'm surprised you don't get on with the ex-DL members more.

"Finally, if you really are 'Gobsmacked' by anything that appears in this thread perhaps you should take up some other less shocking interest than politics?
Crochet perhaps?"

I am gobsmacked at your hierarchy of membership. You have your own version of purity that the trots would be proud of. Can I suggest that you take up croquet?

by Dermot Lacey Fri Nov 25, 2005 17:56

The answer to the question posed above is that I did not and do not have a vote as Secretary of the Complaints Committee.

by Kat Fri Nov 25, 2005 19:28

This is an extract from the Sligo Champion. Decaln Bree highlights the fact that Pat claimed that he had abused his 'position as mayor to stop an accommodation site going into his own electoral ward and sought to put it into the ward of a colleague that already has three such sites'. This has been proven to be untrue and Pat has not given any reason why he wrote these lies.

In his original letter of complaint submitted to the General Secretary of the Party, Cllr. Bree said: "That Mr Rabbitte would claim that the office of the Mayor of Sligo was abused for personal or political advantage is an allegation that cannot be ignored either by me or by the citizens of Sligo.

"I am proud of the fact that I was born and reared in Sligo. I have spent a lifetime since I was 15 years of age - involved in politics in Sligo. Apart from representing the Sligo/Leitrim constituency in the Dail for 5 years, I have had the privilege of representing the people of this city and county at local government level for over 31 years.

"During my years in local government I always respected and recognised the import and the significance of the office of Mayor of Sligo.

"On the 21st June 2004, after a wait of 30 years, I was privileged to be unanimously elected Mayor of Sligo. To be chosen as Mayor of ones own native town is a unique honour and in that context I pledged to fulfil my role as first citizen in a manner befitting the position.

"During my year in office I carried out my duties as Mayor to the very best of my ability and I particularly ensured that the office of first citizen was not used or abused for personal or partisan political purposes. At the conclusion of my term I can only say that I was overwhelmed at the positive and warm messages of thanks and congratulations I received from all sectors of Sligo society - community groups, chamber of commerce, voluntary organisations and from every member of the Borough Council regardless of political affiliation.

"In all my years as a political activist and in my 31 years as an elected representative I am proud of the fact - and the record will show - that I have always striven to protect the rights of minorities, whether immigrants, travellers or other groups," Clr. Bree said.

by Jo Fri Nov 25, 2005 21:16

What is extraordinary about this decision is that this the same complaints committee which just weeks beforehand had upheld a complaint against Clr Bree for refusing to apologise for publicly criticising a decision of his colleagues to vote against Sligo's Traveller Accommodation Programme.

What is worse, criticising public representatives who voted to keep local traveller families in Sligo in appalling conditions on the side of the road; or publicly slandering a long standing party member, before an internal party inquiry was due to sit to hear a complaint about that same party member.????

by kintama Sat Nov 26, 2005 02:13

Very helpful of Dermot Lacey to clarify his position which must be presumed to be correct. In the absence of any clarification from Mr Allen, despite a request in a previous post now wiped, it would be nice if Dermot could do a spot of further clarification in relation to the following:-
what does random selection mean in Allen's terms:
what standards need to be reached in order to breach the constitution and exactly how did Bree's complaint fail to meet these standards.
The fact that the complaint was investigated at all was used by some Rabbitte worshipers to 'prove' that the party was open and democratic. That being the case clarify exactly how and why the decision was made for the less enlightened of us. Otherwise some might believe that the party is turning Stalinist and those who defy the glorious leaders line could be purged. Oh how Pat must long for his old Stickie days when upstarts like Bree would have got a kicking and f^*k any investigation.

by JJ Sat Nov 26, 2005 18:29

The following are the guys who sat on the internal complaints committee which made the disgraceful decision to reject Declan Bree’s complaint against Rabbitte:-
Barry Desmond, John O’Brien, Paul Quinn, Pat Brady and Gina Doolin

While Desmond and O’ Brien stand on the far right of the Party, what info is there on the others?

by Spartacus Sat Nov 26, 2005 19:05

He used to be a TU official maybe still is. He came into Labour with DL. A real Stalinist in his early days. Extremely arrogant, when he was a TU official with the FWUI he could hardly hide his fury if Union members wouldnt accept his opinion. hre left the FWUI and went to work for the Pharmicists Society or some similar body. Didnt last long there and got a job with ITGWU.

by Son of Honeker Sun Nov 27, 2005 15:55

Pat Brady is a Northerner who was a member of Official Sinn Fein/SFWP/WP/DL from the 1970s. Along with many of his comrades he was active in USI and latter became a full time trade union official. He was a prominent member of the GDR (East Germany) Friendship Society and was a regular singer at WP socials, where he dished up many's the revolutionary ballad, including, ironically given the above information, a song he had written himself attacking reformism, which actually mentioned Barry Desmond by name (I'll try to get the words and post them up). He was the WP candidate in Dublin South for a brief period but never made the electoral headway that Gilmore, Rabbitte etc. made, simply cos he was'nt willing to do the constituency work necessary. He never played a prominent role in the WP/DL but he's obviously been rewarded for his loyalty.

by Dermot Lacey Sun Nov 27, 2005 16:13

As Secretary of the Committee I am willing to give some factual answers I am not prepared to debate any of the political comments. The members of the Complaints panel are approved by the NEC and represent the broad range of Party opinion and members. At the commencement of a complaint process all names are put in a hat and drawn absolutely randomly. Secondly members are not rewarded in any way. They serve voluntarily and often at expense and inconvenience to themselves.

by BS Sun Nov 27, 2005 18:42

I note that Mr Lacey is prepared to give some factual answers.

Back in February, Declan Bree in a Sligo newspaper described a decision by councillors to vote down Sligo’s Traveller Accommodation Programme as disgraceful. When Bree refused to apologise for making the statement a
complaint under Section 14 of the Party Constitution was forwarded to Labour Head Office by Peigin Doyle.

The Complaints Committee which considered the matter in the absence of Bree upheld the complaint.

Among the four people who decided to uphold the complaint were John O’Brien and Gina Doolin.

In September, in a letter to the Irish Times, Pat Rabbitte made a scurrilous attack on Councillor Declan Bree on the basis of unfounded allegations.

When Bree submitted a Complaint to Head Office a Party Complaints Committee rejected the complaint as “the facts as alleged in the complaint came nowhere meeting the standard for complaints set out in Article 14 of the Party Constitution.”

Among the five people who decided to reject Bree’s complaint against Rabbitte were John O’Brien and Gina Doolin!!!!

Perhaps Mr Lacey can now provide us with some factual answers.

How could Mr O’Brien and Ms Doolin or any Complaints Committee believe that Cllr Bree was in breach of Labour Party rules by stating in a local newspaper that a decision by councillors to vote down a traveller accommodation programme was disgraceful, while at the same time rejecting a compliant against a Party member (Pat Rabbitte) who attempted to smear and vilify a colleague in the letters page of the Irish Times?

Can Mr Lacey tell us does the Complaints Committee apply one set of standards for ordinary Labour Party activists and another set of standards for the Party Leader?

by kintama Mon Nov 28, 2005 00:42

Once again Dermot is to be thanked for providing some clarity but for some reason he remains reticent to comment on the standards used and how the complaint failed to meet these. I am not sure how such questions could be deemed to be political comments I do however understand his reticence to comment on the view of several posters that the Dear Leader is somewhat Stalinist.

by BS Mon Nov 28, 2005 18:42

A deafening silence from Mr Lacey.

Where now are the factual answers ?

by kintama Mon Nov 28, 2005 22:12

Yes a bit disappointing Dermot promised 'some replies' but only made one reply. The really relevant questions have gone unanswered and it must therefore be fair to assume that info on standards won't be released as it will expose the shafting of Bree by the Party.

by Amused Wed Nov 30, 2005 16:22

[extract]
Though Mr Rabbitte has made a habit of criticising the Ceann Comhairle for ensuring the rules of Dáil Éireann are implemented, it is an amazing double standard that in 2003 the same Pat Rabbitte refused to criticise Joe Higgins TD for defying a High Court Order.
Both our courts and the Oireachtas are at the very fabric of our democracy. It is irresponsible for elected members to belittle these institutions as part of a point-scoring exercise.
By his unacceptable behaviour, Mr Rabbitte has given yet another indication that, although you can take the man out of the Workers' Party, you will never take the Workers' Party out of the man. - Yours, etc,

JOHN O'DONOGHUE TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Dublin 2.

by kintama Wed Nov 30, 2005 21:45

John is no mug he knows the 'Dear Leader' is not one to tolerate dissent. That might explain why Dermot has not been back with further clarity on how the complaint against the Party leader was so casually dismissed. Has Dermot been scared off ?

by Colm Thu Dec 01, 2005 13:45

I see that Dermot Lacey has still not given factual answers to the questions raised by BS.

Perhaps he is now beginning to recognise the extent of the sf/sfwp/wp/na/dl “democratic centralism” in comrade Rabbitte’s new labour party.

Any activist who questions the “Great Leader” is considered an enemy and must be shafted. (They hadn’t reckoned on Brees tenacity and stubbornness)

Were Mr Brady and Ms Doolin not members of the DL clique?

It is interesting to note that it was a Peigin Doyle who prepared and submitted the official complaint against Bree when he criticised councillors for voting against Sligos traveller accommodation programme.

When Doyle and her husband Hugh McConvile joined Labour in Sligo they told no one of their background in sf/sfwp/wp/na/dl

Given McConviles activity with the Presidents Awards and Doyle’s P.R. work with Sligo I.T. they obviously wanted a low profile and were anxious not to draw attention to themselves.

It was only when the matter of the complaint against Bree became public knowledge that Doyles name became associated with the party. (The complaint process was to be an internal one - and Doyle never figured that her name and the complaint against Bree would be revealed in the press)

One wonders how many other sf/sfwp/wp/na/dl “sleepers” are now “active” in the labour party in other parts of the country. Any factual answers Mr Lacey?

Peigin Doyle’s PR skills will be strongly stretched in attempting to present the Blueshirt McGarry as a Socialist and defender of travellers rights

by BS Fri Dec 02, 2005 14:10

Perhaps Dublin Exile (25th November strand) can enlighten us.

He tells us that John O'Brien is a lifelong member of the Labour Party and that we don't know what stand he took on the decisions made by both Complaitns Committees.

Is it not the case that the decisions against Bree were unanimous and that O'Brien upheld the complaint against Bree and yet rejected Brees complaint against Rabbitte.

It this not typical of the attitude of trade unions bureaucrats.

by Anthony - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 02, 2005 23:04

Mr. Lacey recently posted a comment on this article - since been hidden as it contained no news - merely an assertion that he had "twice submitted replies to this which have mysteriously not appeared on the thread" - along with an accusation of censorship.
However both of his comments on this article are plainly visible at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=73163#comment129373 and http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=73163#comment129511

If any of his comments on any other article have been hidden, Dermot - or any other interested party - can check through the newswire archives and query the stated reason for the editorial action by using the contact form or by subscribing to the editorial list where all editorial discussion is carried out in the open.

by Jimmy Sat Dec 03, 2005 18:19 Sligo

Pat Rabbette would of course do this. But does he expect the voters not to know about this too? It would raise a lot of questions about his definition of civil liberties. Labour have not got a good reputation of civil liberties, have they?