6PM BRITISH EMBASSY-Protesting Shoot to Kill, Remembering Jean Charles de Menezes

by against police violence Wed Aug 03, 2005 16:54

How about moving to the Brazil Embassy afterwards and protesting against the deaths at the hands of the Brazilian Police - notorious for the killings of slum kids?

Embassy of Brazil, Harcourt Centre, 41-54, 5th floor Harcourt Street, Dublin 2.

by Ciaron Wed Aug 03, 2005 19:15

How about you do that...or is this another colonised confusion between being contrary and rebellious?

by Phuq Hedd Wed Aug 03, 2005 20:06

That thinks that they're being clever.

by against police violence Wed Aug 03, 2005 20:45

Jesus, is that the standard response these days on the wire to critical statements? "Troll! Troll! Delete! Delete!" I'm not a troll (or at least I dont like to think of myself as one).

I meant the above as a genuine statement. I think it is extremely shit that an innocent man is killed by the police in London, but it happens with alarming regularity in Brazil too, as has been pointed out by Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. I think that this should be highlighted as well - that each human life is just as valuable as another, and when the Police kill someone, it is state violence at its most extreme.

by Al Wed Aug 03, 2005 22:40

Put yourself in the shoes

A, You think the guy in front of you has a bomb. You shout to stop and he starts to run towards a train.

B, If he gets away it will explode killing dozens, perhaps more.

C, If he gets a second he will detonate it there and then, killing dozens, perhaps more.

D, If you hit him the the torso the bomb will explode, killing dozens, perhaps more.

What do you do?

Obviously what happened was a tragedy and the cops involved wont feel too good about it. A persons death on your conscience is a heavy burden but if its a choice between him or dozens of innocent people, what choice do you really have?

by D Wed Aug 03, 2005 23:55

Al, what about the case where a suicide bomber has a so-called dead man's switch, which detonates when the switch is released? In this case, incapacitating the bomber would effectively detonate the device.

by soundmigration Thu Aug 04, 2005 01:58

come on al

we heard that excuse ad nauseum. perhaps you should take a look at the facts.
1. NO witnesses heard any warning, so they must have whispered it...not a very effective warning
2. The police put out deliberate lies as an attempt to cover up what was a murder. Why would thery do that (he was not wearing bulky clothes as stated by the police. he did not jump the ticket toll as told by police, he used his ticket and walked through like everyone else)
3.He was held down by two plain clothes men and shot in the face eight times by a third.


Its all about the state hinding behind deliberately fabricated lies, as an attempt to make us avoid the reality



"A, You think the guy in front of you has a bomb.( because he ain't white and he came from a block of flats you where watching)

You shout to stop and he starts to run towards a train.( you don't shout stop, he uses his ticket and most likely runs to catch the train before the doors close)

If he gets away it will explode killing dozens, perhaps more.If he gets a second he will detonate it there and then, killing dozens, perhaps more. If you hit him the the torso the bomb will explode, killing dozens, perhaps more."( your physed up to the back bone to make sure none of those Arab/African/swarty skin murdering bastards detonate a bomb you dont even know exists. you've been given full protection of the state and justice system, your well used to pumping lead into people at close range and fuck this adrenalin rush is good sooo gooood...lets have the bastard now!!!!!hold him down hold him down......."

Perhaps not a feeling a million miles away from the rush you get when your next in command tells you to remove your police numbers from your sleeves and put on rubber medical gloves so you can kick and baton the shite out of unarmed people on Dame St. ( not tying to make any direct comparisons of injustice but merely a connection between organised and protected violent intent and actions masquerading as 'on the spot reaction'



It never was such a choice, it was the result of men TRAINED to be muderers outside (or more literally inside) the law a la FRU units used in the north. it just so happens that the focus is on people of colour and not catholics

by Ciaron - PSP/DCW (perosnal capacity) Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:35 087 918 4552

OK good to know that you are opposed to this killing.

The presence at the Britiish Embassy this evening has been initiated and organised by the Brazilian diaspora in Dublin. Its theme is to mourn the death and express concern about the shot to kill policy.

They aren't activists or campaigners, they are very much like the guy who was killed. Brazilians living a long way from home. Someone like them has just had 7 shots pumped into their head by the British police. No cop has been suspended or charged.

Shoot to kill was something the British used to be embarrased about as they practised it in the north of Ireland. Stalker was dispatched from Manchester to uncover it. Now "shoot to kill" seems to have been celebrated and mainstreamed as just another policing option for British police.

I've been standing in Dublin streets for 3 years in public witness against this war that Ireland is so deeply a part of and which the London bombings are a response to. If I had a dollar for everytime some dude has said, "yeah, but why aren't you somewhere else doing something else" the $US 2million the U.S. military say I owe them would be pocket change!.

We all choose things to be active and organise aorund, that choice is often pretty subjective. When others organise around their choice (Rossport, public space, commnity gardening, 3rd World solidarity issues like you suggest) we have an opportunity to show solidarity.

Our crew in the U.S. spend a lot of time resisiting the training of Latin American militaries at the School of the Americas (Assasins). Check out the link www.soaw.org

by Gustavo Thu Aug 04, 2005 14:14

Just a note in response to comments that mention violence in Brasil and other non-related issues:

No other violent act in any part of the world, Brasil included, will justify the murder commited by the the London Metropolitan Police.

The demonstration stands for 2 reasons:

1) To remember Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent man murdered by the London Metropolitan police due to their shoot-to-kill policy and racial profiling, which is basically another name for racism.

2) As a public response to the shoot-to-kill policy, its unlawfulness and the concern that this recent murder is one of many to come according to the London police announcements that they will continue with this policy.

Now the murdered man is a Brasilian national. The next could be of any nationality. Remember that most, if not all, nations at this stage have coloured people as citizens.

As already pointed out, this is not a new policy and has been used in the North of Ireland before to justify other murders.

It is time for it to end and for murderers to take responsibility. No apology and no large sum of money can bring one back to life. It has to stop.

by mms Thu Aug 04, 2005 14:58

I can not take part, as I will be working but I hope many people will attend

VIVA O POVO Brasileiro

Gustavo,
pode me enviar seu email
eu meu

sprisp.mms@pop.com.br
ate mais
obrigada

by Gustavo Thu Aug 04, 2005 15:18

Just one last note on this event.

It would be great if everyone could come. For solidarity, if no other reason.

To show disapproval of such cruel and racist policy and to start something that could maybe help avoiding that other people from any nation or part of the world, from any colour or social group, get murdered.

It is not that controversial.

by Al Fri Aug 05, 2005 02:34

Oh please, Dame street? Still on that are we? No justice? There were trials or werent you aware of that? As far as Dame Street goes, please change the record, its getting old. BUt if you must go down that road, I will defend thos involved. They were attacked and defended themselves. I wont apologise for an actions A, I wasnt involved in and B, An action I agree with.
You probable cried murder in Lusk as well, didnt you?

As for his colour, you are the only one that mentioned that, I didnt. But seeing as you did let me point something out, the majority of Al Queda operatives are Muslim, the majority are not white. Its not racism, its simple facts. Just because Im white and I arrest an african doesnt make me racist. African nationals can be racist, Asians can be racist. Its not exclusive to white Irish or English.

by Beige Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:48

He wasn't arrested dude, wake up and grow up....

Enough of that now, it's going nowhere.