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Monday May 09, 2005 10:29
by Home for the weekend - none
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Comments (47 of 47)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47A few points for your consideration.
1. The SEA is widely believed to be entirely controlled by the SWP. There is no evidence that anybody but the SWP has any control over policy.
2. The SEA vote is significantly down from the assembly elections.
3. 3.6% of the vote is very far from something to get excited about.
4. The UUP collapse happened across the 6 counties, regardless of whether the SEA was standing. If McCann did indeed attract Unionist votes, then he lost a hell of a lot more from the 'other side' - not exactly too encouraging.
5. "the SEA manages to include EVERYONE on the left in Derry" putting a word in CAPITAL letters is a rather poor way of passing off an obvious untruth. The SEA does not include, for example: anarchists, left republicans in SF (there are some) and probably many others.
6. Who are these 'autonomists' that are influencing youth in Derry. By the way this use of the word is a dead obvious giveaway of the SWP a-an-ana--anar-autonomist syndrome - an inability to utter the word anarchist due to a wish that 'they would just go away'. As you know there are no autonomists in Ireland but many anarchists - in Derry too.
7. "SEA people had been predicting about 1,000 votes" - post facto predictions which turn out to be surpassed are not very impressive. Were the SEA/SWP really predicting that their vote would only get a third of their assembly vote? That's very pessimistic comrade, ohmigoditssoexciting we might win. I challenge you to indicate a single place where such a prediction was made _in advance_ of the election.
Finally, I must add that I really really hate the way that trots seem to think the rest of the world is infinitely stupid. This is the most paper-thin see-throughable lame propaganda that I have seen in a while. Why can't you try being honest for once - nobody is fooled.
Yes Eamonn McCann and the trots are 'infinitely stupid' and 'dishonest' while the masked Mr Badman is a political genius and the last word on sincerity.
And the moon is green
And Micheal O Leary is a socialist
And GAMA are good bosses
And Michael McDowell is just
etc etc etc
At least Badman made cogent points. It is you who has resorted to blah blah blah. One nil to Badman on that exchange.
Not sure where Badman lives, but anyone in Derry will tell you there is only one active anarchist there [and think anyone in Organise! will agree]. However, there are lots of autonomists - mainly Italian, but a few Irish as well who would identify as autonomist rather than anarchist. Many of these are my friends and the people I hang around with when in Derry. SWP controlling SEA? From what I hear, that is not the case as there are too many SEA people and not enough SWP! As for Left Republicans, they are working with the SEA as well. I saw the leaflet put out by the "Independent Republican" who stood in Cityside and it read just like a SF one. In fact, people are describing him as "Independent Sinn Fein". No one in the North believes there is a single socialist in Sinn Fein anymore.
The prediction of about 1,000 votes was quoted in the local press before the count, so Badman cannot call it post-hoc rationalisation or whatever. Maybe none of this seems as exciting to people from the South as it is for those of us from the North. To be honest, I would consider moving back to Derry in order to get involved with the SEA!
"No one in the North believes there is a single socialist in Sinn Fein anymore."
I'm sure there are many in SF who believe they are.
If SWP do not control or heavily influence SEA, how many members of SEA stood for election in Derry, that are not members of the all controlling SWP.
answers on a post card, or if you don't know just send a polomint.
Nothing that you have said has any evidence behind it. You are exactly as anonymous as I am and have provided exactly zero evidence to back up any of your claims. If you were only home for the weekend (after the election) how did you see this exceedingly improbable quote in the local media? I don't suppose you have a link to it or a clip from it? A friend showed it to you, I suppose? Derry overrun with Italian autonomists?? Now that's a real laugh. And how about the IRSP? They don't count as EVERYONE I suppose?
Piffle, drivel and the worst brand of doubleplusgood propaganda that I can recall in a while.
5 standing?
I thought E McCann's SEA vote was encouraging. First past the post, sectarian head count, SF-SDLP-DUP-UUP fight, etc are all real obstacles to mobilisng a progressive vote. Respect in England put in some good votes. SSP disappointing (although Scottish Assembly results wer very encouraging)
I think there is a feeling among leftists to come together, not shared by everyone (obvious from some comments here) not only in these islands but in other parts of the world.
I would like to see this sort of thing developed. I don't expect Anarchists to want to join an alliance which includes elections, or to see anything positive in examples where working together, leftist score votes that are not ridiculous, but others may want and find a way to pool their efforts.
Good luck Derry SEA
According to that site, the SEA have polled 3.9% in Derry City as a whole. Depending on how that is split between wards, it looks like McCann is in the running.
David McAuley SEA Eliminated.
McCann's vote will skew the figures.
Oisin Kehoe SEA Eliminated
Ironically, the worse his running mates have done the better McCann's chances are. If the other SEA candidates took a real kicking, then the 3.9% could well be enough for him.
McCann would win a seat if he wanted to. He could have run in the city area and not the rural area. But of course he didn't do this as he doesn't want to be elected as a councillor, he prefers writing articles and making the odd speech.
I haven't said anything about my hopes for the fortunes of the SEA in this election*. I merely did my duty and informed indymedia readers of a particularly transparent piece of propaganda on the newswire, written from a typical faux-naive point of view (ohmigoditssoexciting). I think that those type of dishonest posts are damaging to the site in general and the comments section is there to allow people to correct inaccurate posts as I have done.
*for what it's worth (not much!) I have always hoped for a good poll for the SEA in elections simply because it would be a sign that something was breaking through the sectarian mentalities in the wee north.
0.3 % beaten into last place by the workers party.
Pottinger ward
Tommy Black SP 163 votes
Joseph Bell WP 105 votes
Oldpark ward
Paul Traynor WP 60 votes
0.3% is on a city wide basis after 4 wards counted.
the
WP have one other candidate that will be included today, in Lower Falls (result not yet in)
Tomorrows count
1 SP candidate in Laganbank
2 WP candidates, 1 in Laganbank and 1 in Castle ward.
has now been eliminated
"According to that site, the SEA have polled 3.9% in Derry City as a whole. Depending on how that is split between wards, it looks like McCann is in the running."
That site now showing SWP/SEA on 2.1%. That skews it a bit more I'd say.
also eliminated with 168 votes
Back to 3.9%
Taking another look at the Derry results it appears that not all the wards are being counted. All the results so far refer to the Northlands and Waterside wards - which means presumably that the SEA 3.9% figure refers only to those wards.
It's hard to compare directly with the 2001 results because the SEA candidates appeared as "independent" on the ballot paper then and more importantly they didn't have the benefit of McCann's Foyle candidacy to associate their candidates with him. Still last time out they got less than 1% in Waterside and a little under 3% in Northlands. This time they have two candidates in Northlands, one of whom has been eliminated. The candidate from last time round, Colm Bryce is still in.
Colm Bryce SEA Eliminated
Tomorrow we get the counts of McCann (Waterside Rural) and Friel (Cityside) for the SEA in Derry. We also get Barbour (Laganbank) for the SP in Belfast.
It will be interesting to get the full breakdown of the votes for Dale (SP Enniskillen) and Bryce SEA Derry Northlands) who both appear to have done pretty well.
All left wingers eyes tomorrow will be on McCann of course. He has needlessly made life more difficult for himself by picking the Waterside Rural ward but he has the local celebrity to pull a vote. He won't have picked up enough votes in that ward in his Foyle tilt to give him a seat in the locals, but in the locals he has the benefit of PR and lower profile opponents.
SEA predicted they would win three seats, how many are they going to win? Would anyone have a view on how many votes the SWP members would get if they stood as SWP and not SEA?
When and where did the SEA predict they would win three seats?
the swp in derry is well enough known to get a vote even if they didnt stand as sea.
I'd say about the same but a slightly different reason - McCann is popular enough in parts of Derry to get a vote for himself and for his associates regardless of the label used.
Speaking of which, according to the BBC website WIlliam Hay of the DUP has been elected which means that they are now counting the Waterside Rural ward votes. According to the website the SEA are still listed on 3.9% which means one of the following:
(a) The BBC haven't bothered to update the SEA percentage since the new ward was counted.
(b) McCann got in or around the average of the SEA vote in the other two wards.
(a) seems more likely, unless McCann's choice of ward wasn't so much more difficult as suicidal.
I've just noticed that Eamonn McCann and Liam Friel were the last 2 SEA to be eliminated. Any details yet of how they fared. I think it has been a very good day for the left in Derry. This has been one of the most difficult elections for the left to fight and yet the SEA seems to have been able ro rise above the sectarien shite that absorbs the mainstream parties.
BBC site is now reporting the SEA at 3.7% of the votes cast in Derry, a drop which doesn't bode well for McCann if accurate.
McCann now being reported as eliminated.
It has to be said that the people who commented adversely on his choice of ward seem to have had a point. In the Westminster election he had dropped votes from the Assembly one but he still got a very respectable score. His 1,600 votes were always going to have come from urban Catholic areas however. They seem to have run him in a ward which he couldn't possibly have won.
I'm also interested. Well...
When and where, DD?
When and where did the SEA predict they would win three seats?
Leading members of the SWP in the North publicly stated they would win three seats in the run in to the election.
Has nobody here seen fit to comment that in Derry, the SEA/SWP ran an entirely male ticket? Their local election poster looked like the A team. Macho guys!! Have you a clue?
Leading members of the SWP in the North publicly stated they would win three seats in the run in to the election.
Who? When? Where?
please colm, tell us which party would do that, I could do with a laugh?
eliminated:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/nicouncil/html/2.stm
"It has to be said that the people who commented adversely on his choice of ward seem to have had a point."
Doh! It was kind of like, obvious.
I blame that poster personally. The reservoir Dogs of student politics
You said SEA predicted three seats would be won. You later claimed leading SWPers publicly said so. To the fair question when, where, who you are silent. Are you quite sure you are telling the truth?
Maybe SEA needed a blog?
''Slugger blogger tops poll in Omagh
Yep, after nearly three years of trying to prosleytise the art of blogging amongst the political classes north and south of the border, we finally have a politician blogger. He's the DUP's poll topping councillor in Omagh District Council Clive McFarland and one of Slugger's panel of politico bloggers.''
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/05/slugger_blogger.php
SEA Results
Derry - Northland
Bryce 353 - 3.46%
Kehoe 221 - 2.16%
Derry - Waterside
McAuley 194 - 2.06%
See for Derry wards in 2001:
http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/lgderry.htm
All my friends in Sinn Fein here in Belfast are truely socialists so please be more carefull when you do those statements. Why instead of being all the time throughing shit all over us, socialists in Ireland, don't try to come all toghether building alliances in social issues? I'm sick of these debates about who is the most socialist and who is not.
Fight capitalism!! Free the people!!
SF are not socialists. They are a right wing sectarian party. How do you thionk you can build real socialism without uniting with working class protestants? SF and republicanism wants a state in which working class protestants are marginalised.
This is complete crap about SF being socialist. When in power in Stormont they implemented Blairs neo liberal agenda without question. Remember Martin McGuniness putting the term Time workers out on strike and privatising schools? Remember De Bruin closing hospitals? Remember SF ministers signing up to water charges?
Of course now SF like the other sectarian parties claim to be against water charges. But they call on people to pay them when they are implemented! Gerry Adams wrote an article in opposition to Eamonn McCann and stated clearly that non payment was 'wrong' and 'people should not break the law'!!
Hardly the actions of a socialist!!
By Socialist's last dose of reality, doesn't it make you wonder how the grassroots of SF don't wake up to their parties con job? If the 'left' doesn't have a serious debate soon about merging as one, well we will all remain at 'SEA'! We have more in common than our differences. United we stand.....etc.
That shining example of socialism, the boul Bertie, must be having a great laugh?