How open IS Indymedia ?

by James Roberts Thu Jan 20, 2005 19:46

Oh, not another 'perusal' ...

The answer's in the question....

---For instance, imagine if a centre-right information website posted news stories on such topics as 'Bush administration vows to protect the life of the unborn' or 'Ahern government builds strong links with US to boost Irish jobs' .

And WHAT is stopping someone researching and writing such a story on Indymedia? ( writing, by the way is not merely using 'cut' and 'paste' of someone else's story....

Is it only the thought that, unlike newspapers, or TV's it can be analysed in public by the public? Rather than the selected 'experts' on a media panel?

---If this fictional centre-right website allowed dissenters to post objections on their news stories, as does Indymedia, then how would this differ in practice from Indymedia,

Indymedia doesn't just allow people to post objections... it allows them to post their own news (again, not the same as copy and paste) even trolls... or articles that are so boring and self interested (like this one) that they would have little commercial appeal to advertisers (again... there's a difference... Indymedia isn't beholden to anyone's wallet, except the occassional fundraiser in a pub - not a E500 a plate affair...)

I read indymedia a lot, and I rarely ever post anything, but I know that if I want to I can.

I don't have to rely on a letters editor, or lobby someone to put spin on an op-ed... I can post my own news, or add my own opinion on comments ...

There's been some well informed local stories on indymedia Ireland, and there has and there's been some great exclusives, and nobody got paid for writing any of them. there's been rubbish, boring false debate, trolls - and outright hate and racism (most of which gets deleted pretty quickly).
But anybody who can use a mouse can publish on indymedia.

so YAAAAWNNNN.... if you really do want to ask this question... why don't you get of your @rse and go and make a story of it.... trawl through the archives, make notes, write up a piece, quote examples, make an argument, not a bunch of vague hypotethical questions like the above.

don't just be the latest person to come on a wonder aloud "ah, but how open is it"

If you REALLY want to, you can do it, and you'll get better with practise... (would the Indo, RTE or Ireland on Sunday allow you the same openess in subject matter and timescale ?)

by yawha? Thu Jan 20, 2005 20:00

----is it possible for Indymedia to be truly open, given that the overwhelming number of people who would use a forum like this are people who do so because they believe it is a better information forum than the traditional media fora, such as those controlled by privately owned print and broadcast organisations?

that's not a logical chain of thought.
"can the site be open" is not automatically linked to why people use it.
if the majority of viewers/ readers/listerners of a particular media outlet watch/read/listen because they think it's the best source of information, that has no bearing on how open it is... Some people think FOX news is the best source of information,,, but that doesn't mean that it will allow their point of view if it diverges from the editorial dictat...
and argued another way, who would read indymedia if they DIDN'T think it was a better source of information?

trolls? fools? or those who like to check different points of view... how do you factor this into your argument? you don't consider that people use more than one source of information, and some deliberately check sources they believe to be biased and unfair. (we're back to FOX again aren't we?)

like what's said above... don't just wonder "why", or "if"ask solid questions or maybe dig up your own answers

This country needs a "media-watch" type group, but it would need to be a damned sight more solid in its analysis than this offering. 2/10 for effort.

(if you disagree, then click the ADD COMMENT button... and again prove how open the site is... you'll even get to join in with the Lone Gunman in one of his various pen names)

by Go2it Thu Jan 20, 2005 20:09

Interesting question posed by Media_matters, it should be debated... James Roberts, if that is his real name, is correct when he, or she, says that Ireland On Sunday and RTE wouldn't allow you to write such a long article.

But people like James Roberts, and me, are also the problem with this site --- it is geared towards cranks who like to write any old commentary..

Other media, however flawed, are more structured and are accountable. For instance, I don't always believe what I read in The Irish Times or the Guardian newspapers but their articles are well written and accessible.
Most articles on Indymedia are amateurish and badly written, like my own writing skills. The 'bought and paid for' may be corrupt in some people's minds but few journalists would have a job if they weren't skilled writers and investigators, while the people who contribute to Indymedia, myself included (I use about 10 different aliases) are not so skilled.
For example, after writing his/her reply (which is not researched in any way - evidenced by the fact that it is written only 10 minutes after the 1st post), James Roberts tells Media_matters to:

'trawl through the archives, make notes, write up a piece, quote examples, make an argument, not a bunch of vague hypotethical questions like the above'

Ahem, ahem...

It is the acceptance of low standards in writing skills that is Indymedia's problem, not a lack of openess!!!

by an imcer Thu Jan 20, 2005 21:44

Anyone who wants to see deletions; They are all archived at this list - sign up and enjoy

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-ireland-newswire

Editorial decisions are taken on this list: Sign up: Lurk or contribute

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-ireland-editorial

Guidelines we Follow are here

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63220&search_text=dalek

More political party oriented 'competition' is here

http://www.politics.ie

by Curious Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:00

Why can't you enter through the admin page anymore?

by Chekov 1 of Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:52

The openness of indymedia is not just the fact that anybody can post their news within the guidelines. There is also the fact that all of the executive decisions are entirely transparent and accountable. Decisions about which stories get featured, what gets hidden, what the guidelines are, etc are all made on the publicly accessible email lists listed above. Anybody can take join these lists and argue their case.

In terms of the quality of the writing and the research, there is obviously huge diversity. It was never intended to be a repositry of the finest prose and we do not make value judgements on the technical skill involved in putting together a story. The concept behind this type of information model is to empower anybody to tell their story, as the information that people have to share is more important than the presentation. Personally, I'd place very little value on the standard writing approach of a professional journalist - which at essence is nothing more than an ability to present a subjective and biased view of events as if it were completely disinterested and objective. The type of opinionated and personalised accounts that we get on indymedia is just much more honest.

Of course, not everything that appears here is interesting. Some of the articles are simply half-baked opinions of people who write off the top of their heads and don't bother to even think about the subject, never mind research them. Others show evidence of a lot of time, energy and thought on the part of the author. But to those who have followed the site over a period of time, the standard has consistently improved. A couple of years ago, many of the articles on the site had titles like "10 reasons to hate the SWP" and so on. This is evidenced in the continued rise in readership. For example, yesterday, we had 102,228 hits from 6563 different IP addresses - which probably equates to something like 10,000 different readers looking at between 1 and 10 different articles each.

by Curious Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:07

But - Why can't you enter through the admin page anymore?
Is uncover - please gone?

by Chekov - 1 of Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:08

I believe that the reason is (I was otherwise occupied during the period when it was debated) that certain of our bonehead and trollish friends were using threads to pursue hidden debates with each other - including all sorts of obnoxious abuse against named individuals.

by dunk Fri Jan 21, 2005 13:37

"be the media"

theres more to indymedia than than the website where you can tell your truth and read others views.
images can be viewed and put on,

audio pieces can be listened to and also put online by you. this is a fine resourse, in many parts of the world indymedia put out a radio program live which is recorded and later uploaded.
http://radio.indymedia.org/
local = http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66365&search_text=muralismo#comment85274

indymedia globally also has many printed papers which are freely distributed, you can get invovled with that.
global= http://print.indymedia.org/
local = http://www.indymedia.ie/printflare.php

there are live broadcasts of events, setting up of media centres, as was successfully done for the first time here for mayday
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64293

so as things evolve who knows where all this will lead
take a view at the amount of diverse and open stuff that went on in london a few months back for the european social fora (plural due to breakaway due to political differences and not abiding by certain principals, anyway.....) check them out

as well as the current stuff in discussion on the website, people like myself are constantly using old pieces in new projects, linking up to develop themes or ideas....

part of the beauty, maybe for others part of a problem: anyone can do what they feel is appropriate?
indymedia communication actions on streets, in art galleries
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65045&search_text=red%20archive
Indymedia.ie Taken Offline & to the streets!
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64799&search_text=facts%20vs%20facts#comment72851

1999- 1 IMC
2005 - 150+ IMC`s in 90 + countries

its open, it evolves, its unending.
its not stuck
get invovled, if your not already

Indymedia.ie Taken Offline & to the streets!

by dunk Fri Jan 21, 2005 13:40

sorry forgot link to ESF('s)
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=67091#comment90225

by jsr Fri Jan 21, 2005 16:58

This is an open forum and it is for this reason that it is full of politically driven rubbish, because anyone can put stuff everybody does.
Most of it is badly written rubbish but its great that if you have something good to share (or think you do) you have a common space on which to do it. That said some of the stuff is well written and well backed up with fact you just have to sift through the muck....bit like anyother paper/online forum. Oh & The trolls are good for a laugh too. Indy abu.

by pc Fri Jan 21, 2005 20:12

....

by Fuse Tue Jan 25, 2005 03:58

I use this site as a news source. If it were the only one I checked I'd be a mug.

I get uptight at times by the slant when it differs from mine. But so what? That's the nature of a public forum. I'm glad it exists.

by DED Tue Jan 25, 2005 23:09

I'm glad the right of people to criticise it exists. The sad crowd who run it don't-especially when it's over their censorship and one-sidedness.

by pc (1 of IMC) Tue Jan 25, 2005 23:13

the right to criticise does indymedia.ie does exist but on the public mailing lists, (see get involved above), not on the site as then the whole site would be taken up by arguements over indymedia rather then news ok!

by pat in donegal - Part of General Right Wing Establishment Wed Jan 26, 2005 20:38

First off, there are plenty of right of centre equals to indy in the mainstream media. Just in the mainstream professionals who know how to word an opinion so as not to make it libel write them. By writing in an objective manner, they can report facts without showing sympathy for or against the gist of the issue (E.G. Niall Strange - Thepost.ie reporting on George Bush's stance on anything).

I am from a relatively right wing political background, and use indymedia for researching public opinion, and it is an excellent resource.

Many journos use the site to garner fresh stories, though the responsible publishers will make sure they are researched properly before print.

Yes it does allow cranks, etc. to have a free run, but this gives a valuable gauge to public opinion, only those who feel strongly enough about a matter will write (that is why I am writing to defend indymedia even though I disagree with large tracts of its content and sympathy) and also opinion formers can predict public reaction by leaking news to a source like this to test the waters.

If the reaction is according to expectation, the allegation or action may become reality or not.

I will try to demonstrate this in a later posting on another topic( I will use a different alias and give details afterwards).

So please try to understand the purpose of free speech is not always the same as what is required by business / professional concerns in the establishment 'fourth estate'.

by DED Wed Jan 26, 2005 21:14

Quote :Yes it does allow cranks,"

But only of certain ideological hue, my friend- which makes it a highly unscientific measure of anythi"g.