Irish Immigrant Nation and Racism

by Terrorised subversive Thu Oct 21, 2004 16:05

What about all the free nappies they get



when they are still in mosney and what about the 'buggy' prams for each child? Then when they leave the special needs grants for white goods, furniture, used cars, driving lessons. then rent alowance for any thing from 500- about 15-1500 per month, oh yes all the free health care, back to education allowance, college grants ----350 million euro in 2003?


A very conservative estimate i'd say!!!

if you need to conclean the truth to make your case then you ain't got one!!!

by King Amdo Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:19

...because of the precceding 'fuss' in the British media (agent provacation by the National Front element)...and as the Irish premier said, what happen in britain first, will inevitable follow in Eire.

You have a worthless and weak leadership Irish.

King Amdo.

IRISH TRIBAL SOVERIGNTY!

by Tony Sun Oct 17, 2004 14:36

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by Tony Sun Oct 17, 2004 14:16

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by terrorised subversive Sat Oct 16, 2004 20:33

Familiar with the term ‘to compare apples and oranges?

You’re forgetting though that they also pay ahem… ahem ‘travel specialists’ a fee. This even by Irish underclass standards would be quite a lot.

Frankly anybody who could believe that the African ‘asylum seekers’ who land here (eventually!, in many cases after stops in at least one other place) aren’t generally amongst the wealthier of their Country must be incredibly gullible.

by Michael Hennigan Sat Oct 16, 2004 20:21

If you're Irish there must be economic migrants in your own family's background.

During the Irish famine and its aftermath, the poor went to America and the very poor tended to end up in England.

In many cultures, the extended family network is still strong- people beg and borrow if they haven't the transport fare.

When thousands of Irish people couldn't find work here in the 8o's, how did they manage to get to the US??

by JJ Sat Oct 16, 2004 17:25

Can someone explain how, if these ilegal aliens are so poor and are escaping poverty and opression in their homelands, that they can afford to come here? The truly poor of the world, people like those in Darfur or in Bolivia, Laos or wherever, couldn''t dream of putting together the money needed to buy an air ticket to Europe.
Yet people from Nigeria and other African countries are arrivng here all the time. They don't walk here, so how can they be so poor if they are able to go in a travel agency in Lago and buy an air ticket, often including tickets for a couple children ? That's several thousand euros.

The answer is clear, of course. They're not poor, and they're not fleeing oppression in their own countries.

by Tony Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:00

Indymedia guidelines on posts request that posters "play the ball and not the player"

Despite the extensive publicity given to "facist" sites here, I am still not tempted to view or participate in them like yourself.

If anyone can prove otherwise - please do.

I know this hugely dissappointing to you as it leaves you with little to post and in your own mind, excuses you for not addressing my points.

So to borrow a line thrown around here so often by those with nothing to say - put up or shut up.

by Joe Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:43

"I'd rather stay on topic and in context if that is ok with you"

Nope its not.

Your obviously someone coming here via the links posted on the fascist sites. Your obviously going to try and twist the figures to whatever suits your posioned ideology. So I'll mention the evidence for this when it suits me to do so. And your attempt to give a scientific base to 'race' is a giveaway if ever there was one.

by Tony Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:40

QUOTE Because an asylum seeker doesn't manage to prove their claim to the state bureaucracy, doesn't make their claim a false one. Trying to assemble paperwork from the same state you are escaping from whilst fleeing for your life must be nearly impossible.

Interesting point Badman, after all to do all this and navigate your way to another continent, via numerous countries, well that just could not be explained by organised rings, forgerers, traffickers, elaborate preparations, manufactured claims, targetted soft spots or clandestine activity now, could it.

by Tony Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:35

Joe, once again proving Godwins law works in reverse on Indymedia.

I'd rather stay on topic and in context if that is ok with you. If you wish to comment on anything I say in any other thread, then be man enough to post on that thread or get lost.

Your post makes the common assumption that when a claim is processed that the game is over. In fact, it is only the beginning.

Rejection of an asylum claim and appeal triggers humanitarian appeals to stay and interminable judicial reviews to every aspect of the claim right down to the letter instructing their removal. Thus, a rejection after a month holds out the prospect of perhaps years of remaning, funded by Irish taxpayers, merely by playing the game. So frankly, your figures do not stack up.

In the case of certain countries - dare I say for example - Nigeria, it is notoriusly difficult to procure documentation from their embassy to remove them. Hence a backlog builds up that has nothing to do with the asylum sytem that has already said their claims are FALSE, or the legal system that has used illegal immigrants as cannon fodder for testing the fine points of immigration law at our expense.

Nigerians success at asylum claims incidently, runs at 1% yet they make up 50% of claims. Perhaps you can explain why this country attracts 50% of all Nigerian claims in Europe with such a dismal prospect of success.

Your line "As far as I'm concerned no one is illegal"

Has been dealt with here before - so for the slow of learning - Commiting an act that is contrary to a law is illegal.

Thats includes immigration law.

by Paul McAndrew Fri Oct 15, 2004 15:28

Hi Michael,
thanks for the moderate-ness of your e-mail to me in response to my comment.
However, trying to shift the heat onto "bogus" asylum seekers and away from "respectable" non-white people reminds me of the "those .drag queens give us nice butch gay men a bad name" kind of argument.
Because an asylum seeker doesn't manage to prove their claim to the state bureaucracy, doesn't make their claim a false one. Trying to assemble paperwork from the same state you are escaping from whilst fleeing for your life must be nearly impossible.
Even in the case of economic migrants, the underlying problem is global economic injustice. Its just not realistic to maintain an unbreachable barrier around the corner of the world that has stolen so much of the world's wealth, The West created and carefully maintains global poverty using unfair trade laws, and regime change when neccessary.
The bosses can move their factories to the other side of the planet whenever they feel like it, and workers should be able to travel to where the work is. A badly paid worker in who is still in the Phillipines is just as much "in competition for our jobs" now as she would be if she could come to Ireland. The continued existence of global poverty is used to keep Western wages and conditions down, and its global poverty that must be destroyed.
As far as I'm concerned we are all citizens of the planet, and I welcome the arrival of so many people from different cultures. Just on an economic level, look at all the thriving businesses set up by Nigerian people, which are contributing to the Irish economy.
In fighting racism we need to clearly oppose all the fear and hatred, not just attempt to restrict the effects of racism to people we disapprove of. Racism is the problem, not "too many foreigners"

by F Fri Oct 15, 2004 15:27 newsforthedeaf at yahoo dot com

Is it really the problem of irelands "success"?
Or is the problem global inequality?
I heard on the news something about Ireland cutting its overseas aid...

Capitalists claim to be arguing for immigrants.
What they are really arguing for is the 'commodity' of cheap labour.
I don't hear them arguing for people
I hear them arguing for economic growth.
Judge John Coughlan sentencing Jay Ugi Image said:
"People who are guests in Ireland should not be obstructing or causing hassle to gardai and his friends should be told that as well"
This statement does not fill me with the sense that Ireland is a country with "a general sense of openess and confidence, respect for democracy and human rights."

Where's the democracy
when you're basically warned to keep your head down and your mouth shut?

by Joe Fri Oct 15, 2004 13:58

Ah but Tony the figures provided in the article show you to be lying above. There are not upwards of 10,000 a year, rather there are only 3 years when there were 10,000 or more applications. And the actual outstanding figures are as follows

---

"Backlog of unprocessed applications at 31/12/03: 7,390 ; 4,554 first instance ; 2,836 appeal

Dispersal and Direct Provision

At 31/12/03, 5,500 asylum seekers were resident in 63 centres in 24 counties in the Republic."

--

7390 - 5,500 = 1890 for those who can't or perhaps won't subtract.

So the racist lie that most Asylum Seekers are not in the miserable conditions of direct provision is simply based on the fact that when a racist sees a black or asian or north african face they see 'one of them'. So the guy in the estate with the car is not seen as hard working and quite legal migrant but as an asylum seeker. And of course some of those 'asylum seekers' are actually people born here in the 1950's and later. Younger racists who see Paul McGrath probably reckon 'there goes another asylum seeker in a big car that must have been paid for by the health board' All the racists see are those 'non Irish' faces and off we go with the urban legends that are dumbly repeated by people who should know better.

I'm just making this distinction to reveal the racist nature of these urban legends. As far as I'm concerned no one is illegal and it is disgraceful that we have 5,500 people in this country who are being held in the equivalent of open prisions. But Tony whp has worked so hard in the last few days to 'prove' that races have a solid genetic basis obviously has an agenda that goes beyond what the actual figures are so I don't expect he will agree.

by Tony Fri Oct 15, 2004 13:27

QUOTE As to the bar stool experts’ view of the gilded services on offer for asylum seekers- on arrival accommodation is full board, which includes bed, breakfast, lunch, and evening meal. Each adult receives a personal allowance of 19.05 euro per week and 9.52 euro for each child plus child benefit. There may also be assistance towards clothing cost.

Now Michael, I agree with you 100% on seperating the asylum system from the legal immigration however, this statement has a problem.

How many places are there in the direct provision system?

I think if you pop off your own bar stool, you will find it is about 3500. Now how do you reconcile that with inward levels of up to and over 10,000 "asylum seekers" annually, not to mention the fact that cases have taken years to decide?

I think you might want to consider that the majority of direct provision places are simply "reception" and the ticket to the full welfare goodies and the rest is only around the corner.

When you stop operating under the pretence that people come here to "claim asylum" Michael, you must ask the very simple question, what the hell are they really here for?

QUOTE "For some who shrug their shoulders in response to revelations of massive tax evasion and corruption etc"

Sorry Michael, but when you descend from your elevated height into communities, they do not SEE their community changing with tax evasion and corruption. A thousand politicians and businessmen can go before tribunals and they really will not care. There lives will go on.

However, you are asking them to be equally indifferent to the arrival of perhaps thousands of immigrants into their neighbourhoods from Countries, thousands of miles away, of radically different cultures, many non English speakers, claiming "asylum", screaming "racist", with their hands out, living a pathetic lie and you expect them to be indifferent? never mind "welcoming" God forbid "celebrating" like the useful idiots do albeit, strictly on their own terms.

by Michael Hennigan Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:25

One of the 'backdoor' immigration routes is for example enrolling in a commercially run operation such as Dublin's Griffith College.

We can all have a dream but dreaming of nirvana in the first world can be costly and far away hills are green.

Last year, I met a guy from a developing country who had been awarded a Master's Degree in IT from a home university. He wasn't from a wealthy family and borrowed from many relatives to raise funding of €10,000 to attend Griffith College. The amount would be equivalent to an Irish person borrowing $50,000 to attend a US university.

The course he enrolled on, in Griifith was far below his competence. His plan was not to study but to get a job and work up to the 20 hours per week, which holders of student are allowed do. The guy's main objective was to get an offer of an IT job and work in full time employment on a work permit.

While this system may work out for some, as with payments to smugglers, raising huge debt in local currency terms and possibly ending up with nothing is quite a risk. Besides, there is the serious issue of the brain drain from a relatively poor country.

The Philippine health service has been ravaged by the recruitment campaigns of wealthy countries such as the UK, US , Ireland and the Gulf countries.

-anyone who may think that I'm anti-immigration, read my first post!

by Leon (Anarchist Drivers) Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:20

Then read it again.

by p flynn Fri Oct 15, 2004 09:48

Thats countrywomen for ya.

by Michael Hennigan Fri Oct 15, 2004 08:55

Prejudice against racists maybe??

Read the post again. I'm arguing for immigration.

Bruce Morrison has said:

You should not use asylum as a backdoor way of doing immigration, because it gets you smuggling. Smugglers figure out what your Achilles heel is as a country, what you do not enforce, how you let people in against the rules. They then charge people huge amounts of money to get to such a place--like Ireland--to be paid back over a lifetime, enforced by a kind of criminal enterprise. And then you have got a real mess.

So as with every other part of immigration, tough as it sounds, you have got to live by the rules. And if the rules are preventing people from immigrating who you think ought to be able to come to your country, then you ought to set up rules that allow them through the front door of immigration, not the back door of failed asylum claims.

-This is the guy who got us 48,000 US work visas

by Paul McAndrew Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:18 ardhanishvara at vodafone dot ie

All the above sounds like thinly veiled prejudice to me. Same kind of drivel homophobes come out with