Irish Immigrant Nation and Racism

national | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Thursday October 14, 2004 23:40

by Michael Hennigan - Finfacts.com

There is a significant minority who oppose non-white immigrants. The asylum system shambles is used by some to paint immigrants on work permits as spongers.

Based on both polls and extensive anecdotal evidence, it is useful when discussing attitudes to immigration, to accept that there is a significant minority of Irish people who are opposed to immigration by non-whites. The percentage may well be in the range of 30%-40% of the population. This group of people comes from all sectors of society and vary from hard racists to individuals who pine for the simpler days of a one- colour Ireland.

I met a countrywoman near Dublin’s St. Vincent’s Hospital recently anxiously enquiring about buses into the city centre. Her neighbour had told her that the bus drivers are of no help because most of them are foreigners. The neighbour was mistaken and I would put her reaction on the benign spectrum of attitude to non-white foreigners.

What is striking is the passive reaction of Irish people to the revelations of extensive corruption while the claims of immigrants milking the system evokes such a response of indignation. The RTE exit poll during the citizenship referendum where 36% said they had voted because 'the country is being exploited by immigrants,' is worth highlighting again.

Economists say that Ireland needs immigrants to maintain economic growth. Nevertheless, when arguments are made about benefits paid to immigrants, there is seldom a differentiation made between legal immigrants on work permits and asylum seekers.

Change from Emigration to Immigration

In the 1980’s the then US Congressman Bruce Morrison led a successful effort in the US Congress to have special visas issued to Irish nationals many of whom were working illegally in the US. Some 48,000 were granted these visas. This was a great help to Ireland during a period of high unemployment. It wasn’t that the American economy needed our people compared with Indians, Malaysians etc. Morrison has said that many of the former ‘illegal aliens’ have become US citizens.

We became an immigrant country in the 1990’s and the following shows the increase in asylum applications as the Celtic Tiger took off:

Year Total
1991 31
1992 39
1993 91
1994 362
1995 424
1996 1,179
1997 3,883
1998 4,626
1999 7,724
2000 10,938
2001 10,325
2002 11,634
2003 7,900
2004 2,118 – to June

Recognised as refugees in 2003 1,170; 345 at first instance; 825 at appeal stage

Recognised as refugees 1994 - 2003 5,600

Unsuccessful applications 2003 2,410
Deportation orders effected in 2003 590
(less than 25% of those who received a deportation order)

Backlog of unprocessed applications at 31/12/03: 7,390 ; 4,554 first instance ; 2,836 appeal

Dispersal and Direct Provision

At 31/12/03, 5,500 asylum seekers were resident in 63 centres in 24 counties in the Republic.

In 2003, the statistics for Work Permits were as follows

47,551 21,965 -New Permits; 25,039 –Renewals

In an interview in the Irish Times last April, Bruce Morrison referred to the Republic's asylum and immigration system as "hopelessly inefficient."

As legal immigrants will form the bulk of immigrants in future years, including Eastern European citizens of the EU, racists will continue to view them all as part of the asylum process.

The figures above show that 5,600 were recognised as refugees compared with about 59,000 applications. As only a fraction of those refused asylum are deported, it is clear that the Government’s administration of the process is a shambles.

As to the bar stool experts’ view of the gilded services on offer for asylum seekers- on arrival accommodation is full board, which includes bed, breakfast, lunch, and evening meal. Each adult receives a personal allowance of 19.05 euro per week and 9.52 euro for each child plus child benefit. There may also be assistance towards clothing cost.

The annual cost of the asylum service in Ireland is about €350 million.

This is what Bruce Morrison said in a speech on immigration to a conference last December:

‘Being a destination country is an honour. You do not get to be a destination country until certain things are true about your society--prosperity, a general sense of openness and confidence, respect for democracy and human rights. These traits make it worth trying to get into such a country. I used to say during the Cold War that there were two kinds of societies in the world: the ones you needed a visa to get into and the ones you needed a visa to get out of. And the list of the first group was short but really quite elite. It is very special to have people line up at your door because they want to visit or stay. That is how people vote with their feet about what kind of nation you are. So when Ireland joined the list of destination countries, it graduated from problems of the past to problems of the future. But those problems of the future are problems of success. And we should all want to have those problems to confront because it means we have the resources to respond and solve them. So this is a happy day.’

So the asylum issue should be resolved to avoid other immigrants being stigmatised. For some who shrug their shoulders in response to revelations of massive tax evasion and corruption but who make a big issue of the cost of the asylum process- 25% of what we received in cash aid from the EU in 2003, it is reasonable to question the motivation.

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Comments (20 of 20)

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thinly veiled prejudice

by Paul McAndrew

Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:18

ardhanishvara at vodafone dot ie

All the above sounds like thinly veiled prejudice to me. Same kind of drivel homophobes come out with

Anti- the racists

by Michael Hennigan

Fri Oct 15, 2004 08:55

Prejudice against racists maybe??

Read the post again. I'm arguing for immigration.

Bruce Morrison has said:

You should not use asylum as a backdoor way of doing immigration, because it gets you smuggling. Smugglers figure out what your Achilles heel is as a country, what you do not enforce, how you let people in against the rules. They then charge people huge amounts of money to get to such a place--like Ireland--to be paid back over a lifetime, enforced by a kind of criminal enterprise. And then you have got a real mess.

So as with every other part of immigration, tough as it sounds, you have got to live by the rules. And if the rules are preventing people from immigrating who you think ought to be able to come to your country, then you ought to set up rules that allow them through the front door of immigration, not the back door of failed asylum claims.

-This is the guy who got us 48,000 US work visas

woman at bus stop

by p flynn

Fri Oct 15, 2004 09:48

Thats countrywomen for ya.

Pat McAndrew

by Leon (Anarchist Drivers)

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:20

Then read it again.

Addendum on Griffith College

Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:25

One of the 'backdoor' immigration routes is for example enrolling in a commercially run operation such as Dublin's Griffith College.

We can all have a dream but dreaming of nirvana in the first world can be costly and far away hills are green.

Last year, I met a guy from a developing country who had been awarded a Master's Degree in IT from a home university. He wasn't from a wealthy family and borrowed from many relatives to raise funding of €10,000 to attend Griffith College. The amount would be equivalent to an Irish person borrowing $50,000 to attend a US university.

The course he enrolled on, in Griifith was far below his competence. His plan was not to study but to get a job and work up to the 20 hours per week, which holders of student are allowed do. The guy's main objective was to get an offer of an IT job and work in full time employment on a work permit.

While this system may work out for some, as with payments to smugglers, raising huge debt in local currency terms and possibly ending up with nothing is quite a risk. Besides, there is the serious issue of the brain drain from a relatively poor country.

The Philippine health service has been ravaged by the recruitment campaigns of wealthy countries such as the UK, US , Ireland and the Gulf countries.

-anyone who may think that I'm anti-immigration, read my first post!

Bar Stool Expert

by Tony

Fri Oct 15, 2004 13:27

QUOTE As to the bar stool experts’ view of the gilded services on offer for asylum seekers- on arrival accommodation is full board, which includes bed, breakfast, lunch, and evening meal. Each adult receives a personal allowance of 19.05 euro per week and 9.52 euro for each child plus child benefit. There may also be assistance towards clothing cost.

Now Michael, I agree with you 100% on seperating the asylum system from the legal immigration however, this statement has a problem.

How many places are there in the direct provision system?

I think if you pop off your own bar stool, you will find it is about 3500. Now how do you reconcile that with inward levels of up to and over 10,000 "asylum seekers" annually, not to mention the fact that cases have taken years to decide?

I think you might want to consider that the majority of direct provision places are simply "reception" and the ticket to the full welfare goodies and the rest is only around the corner.

When you stop operating under the pretence that people come here to "claim asylum" Michael, you must ask the very simple question, what the hell are they really here for?

QUOTE "For some who shrug their shoulders in response to revelations of massive tax evasion and corruption etc"

Sorry Michael, but when you descend from your elevated height into communities, they do not SEE their community changing with tax evasion and corruption. A thousand politicians and businessmen can go before tribunals and they really will not care. There lives will go on.

However, you are asking them to be equally indifferent to the arrival of perhaps thousands of immigrants into their neighbourhoods from Countries, thousands of miles away, of radically different cultures, many non English speakers, claiming "asylum", screaming "racist", with their hands out, living a pathetic lie and you expect them to be indifferent? never mind "welcoming" God forbid "celebrating" like the useful idiots do albeit, strictly on their own terms.

Tony

by Joe

Fri Oct 15, 2004 13:58

Ah but Tony the figures provided in the article show you to be lying above. There are not upwards of 10,000 a year, rather there are only 3 years when there were 10,000 or more applications. And the actual outstanding figures are as follows

---

"Backlog of unprocessed applications at 31/12/03: 7,390 ; 4,554 first instance ; 2,836 appeal

Dispersal and Direct Provision

At 31/12/03, 5,500 asylum seekers were resident in 63 centres in 24 counties in the Republic."

--

7390 - 5,500 = 1890 for those who can't or perhaps won't subtract.

So the racist lie that most Asylum Seekers are not in the miserable conditions of direct provision is simply based on the fact that when a racist sees a black or asian or north african face they see 'one of them'. So the guy in the estate with the car is not seen as hard working and quite legal migrant but as an asylum seeker. And of course some of those 'asylum seekers' are actually people born here in the 1950's and later. Younger racists who see Paul McGrath probably reckon 'there goes another asylum seeker in a big car that must have been paid for by the health board' All the racists see are those 'non Irish' faces and off we go with the urban legends that are dumbly repeated by people who should know better.

I'm just making this distinction to reveal the racist nature of these urban legends. As far as I'm concerned no one is illegal and it is disgraceful that we have 5,500 people in this country who are being held in the equivalent of open prisions. But Tony whp has worked so hard in the last few days to 'prove' that races have a solid genetic basis obviously has an agenda that goes beyond what the actual figures are so I don't expect he will agree.

Destination or Departure?

by F

Fri Oct 15, 2004 15:27

newsforthedeaf at yahoo dot com

Is it really the problem of irelands "success"?
Or is the problem global inequality?
I heard on the news something about Ireland cutting its overseas aid...

Capitalists claim to be arguing for immigrants.
What they are really arguing for is the 'commodity' of cheap labour.
I don't hear them arguing for people
I hear them arguing for economic growth.
Judge John Coughlan sentencing Jay Ugi Image said:
"People who are guests in Ireland should not be obstructing or causing hassle to gardai and his friends should be told that as well"
This statement does not fill me with the sense that Ireland is a country with "a general sense of openess and confidence, respect for democracy and human rights."

Where's the democracy
when you're basically warned to keep your head down and your mouth shut?

Racism is the problem, not "too many foreigners"

Fri Oct 15, 2004 15:28

Hi Michael,
thanks for the moderate-ness of your e-mail to me in response to my comment.
However, trying to shift the heat onto "bogus" asylum seekers and away from "respectable" non-white people reminds me of the "those .drag queens give us nice butch gay men a bad name" kind of argument.
Because an asylum seeker doesn't manage to prove their claim to the state bureaucracy, doesn't make their claim a false one. Trying to assemble paperwork from the same state you are escaping from whilst fleeing for your life must be nearly impossible.
Even in the case of economic migrants, the underlying problem is global economic injustice. Its just not realistic to maintain an unbreachable barrier around the corner of the world that has stolen so much of the world's wealth, The West created and carefully maintains global poverty using unfair trade laws, and regime change when neccessary.
The bosses can move their factories to the other side of the planet whenever they feel like it, and workers should be able to travel to where the work is. A badly paid worker in who is still in the Phillipines is just as much "in competition for our jobs" now as she would be if she could come to Ireland. The continued existence of global poverty is used to keep Western wages and conditions down, and its global poverty that must be destroyed.
As far as I'm concerned we are all citizens of the planet, and I welcome the arrival of so many people from different cultures. Just on an economic level, look at all the thriving businesses set up by Nigerian people, which are contributing to the Irish economy.
In fighting racism we need to clearly oppose all the fear and hatred, not just attempt to restrict the effects of racism to people we disapprove of. Racism is the problem, not "too many foreigners"

MoJoe

Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:35

Joe, once again proving Godwins law works in reverse on Indymedia.

I'd rather stay on topic and in context if that is ok with you. If you wish to comment on anything I say in any other thread, then be man enough to post on that thread or get lost.

Your post makes the common assumption that when a claim is processed that the game is over. In fact, it is only the beginning.

Rejection of an asylum claim and appeal triggers humanitarian appeals to stay and interminable judicial reviews to every aspect of the claim right down to the letter instructing their removal. Thus, a rejection after a month holds out the prospect of perhaps years of remaning, funded by Irish taxpayers, merely by playing the game. So frankly, your figures do not stack up.

In the case of certain countries - dare I say for example - Nigeria, it is notoriusly difficult to procure documentation from their embassy to remove them. Hence a backlog builds up that has nothing to do with the asylum sytem that has already said their claims are FALSE, or the legal system that has used illegal immigrants as cannon fodder for testing the fine points of immigration law at our expense.

Nigerians success at asylum claims incidently, runs at 1% yet they make up 50% of claims. Perhaps you can explain why this country attracts 50% of all Nigerian claims in Europe with such a dismal prospect of success.

Your line "As far as I'm concerned no one is illegal"

Has been dealt with here before - so for the slow of learning - Commiting an act that is contrary to a law is illegal.

Thats includes immigration law.

BadPa

Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:40

QUOTE Because an asylum seeker doesn't manage to prove their claim to the state bureaucracy, doesn't make their claim a false one. Trying to assemble paperwork from the same state you are escaping from whilst fleeing for your life must be nearly impossible.

Interesting point Badman, after all to do all this and navigate your way to another continent, via numerous countries, well that just could not be explained by organised rings, forgerers, traffickers, elaborate preparations, manufactured claims, targetted soft spots or clandestine activity now, could it.

re: Tony

Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:43

"I'd rather stay on topic and in context if that is ok with you"

Nope its not.

Your obviously someone coming here via the links posted on the fascist sites. Your obviously going to try and twist the figures to whatever suits your posioned ideology. So I'll mention the evidence for this when it suits me to do so. And your attempt to give a scientific base to 'race' is a giveaway if ever there was one.

Joe

Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:00

Indymedia guidelines on posts request that posters "play the ball and not the player"

Despite the extensive publicity given to "facist" sites here, I am still not tempted to view or participate in them like yourself.

If anyone can prove otherwise - please do.

I know this hugely dissappointing to you as it leaves you with little to post and in your own mind, excuses you for not addressing my points.

So to borrow a line thrown around here so often by those with nothing to say - put up or shut up.

Explain this

by JJ

Sat Oct 16, 2004 17:25

Can someone explain how, if these ilegal aliens are so poor and are escaping poverty and opression in their homelands, that they can afford to come here? The truly poor of the world, people like those in Darfur or in Bolivia, Laos or wherever, couldn''t dream of putting together the money needed to buy an air ticket to Europe.
Yet people from Nigeria and other African countries are arrivng here all the time. They don't walk here, so how can they be so poor if they are able to go in a travel agency in Lago and buy an air ticket, often including tickets for a couple children ? That's several thousand euros.

The answer is clear, of course. They're not poor, and they're not fleeing oppression in their own countries.

re: Explain this

Sat Oct 16, 2004 20:21

If you're Irish there must be economic migrants in your own family's background.

During the Irish famine and its aftermath, the poor went to America and the very poor tended to end up in England.

In many cultures, the extended family network is still strong- people beg and borrow if they haven't the transport fare.

When thousands of Irish people couldn't find work here in the 8o's, how did they manage to get to the US??

compare apples and oranges.

by terrorised subversive

Sat Oct 16, 2004 20:33

Familiar with the term ‘to compare apples and oranges?

You’re forgetting though that they also pay ahem… ahem ‘travel specialists’ a fee. This even by Irish underclass standards would be quite a lot.

Frankly anybody who could believe that the African ‘asylum seekers’ who land here (eventually!, in many cases after stops in at least one other place) aren’t generally amongst the wealthier of their Country must be incredibly gullible.

Deletion.

Sun Oct 17, 2004 14:16

Note:

Anyone who wishes to view censored posts may go here and use the username/password combo of uncover/please.

http://www.indymedia.ie/admin.php

Once logged in, navigate the site as normal.

Terrorised subversive

Sun Oct 17, 2004 14:36

You might enjoy this article. Registration required.

No, There's only been this fuss here....

by King Amdo

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:19

...because of the precceding 'fuss' in the British media (agent provacation by the National Front element)...and as the Irish premier said, what happen in britain first, will inevitable follow in Eire.

You have a worthless and weak leadership Irish.

King Amdo.

IRISH TRIBAL SOVERIGNTY!

post mosney benefits??

by Terrorised subversive

Thu Oct 21, 2004 16:05

What about all the free nappies they get

when they are still in mosney and what about the 'buggy' prams for each child? Then when they leave the special needs grants for white goods, furniture, used cars, driving lessons. then rent alowance for any thing from 500- about 15-1500 per month, oh yes all the free health care, back to education allowance, college grants ----350 million euro in 2003?

A very conservative estimate i'd say!!!

if you need to conclean the truth to make your case then you ain't got one!!!

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