Where does The Mental Health Commisson stand?

by Angry Loaner with an Irrational Grudge Against Backpackers. - Working Worker Worker's Party (now incorporating Time Warner and 2000AD comic) Mon Jul 05, 2004 19:09

I think I read somewhere that the Commission were recently touting 'care in the community'. Isn't that a 80s term for leaving the vulnerable to the streets a la Thatcherism? I'm not sure but I think I cut the bit out of the paper and put it in my 'LITTLE FOLDER OF SUSPECT MACHINATIONS'. It's at home, I'll check it out and get back to you if it yields anything.

By the way, if you want to generate more feedback on this site I suggest that you don't discuss boring things like mental health, or if you do throw in an insult aimed at some bunch of lefties so the conversation can drift off up the cul de sac of in fighting that mars this otherwise fine facility. I've done it myself, I admit.

by pc Mon Jul 05, 2004 20:20

hmm i dunno
interesting comment

most of the posts about mental health on this site come from the one guy going on about too much drugs being involved.. which i think many agree on but don't know what to do about it...

the mental health system is in dire straits eveyone knows that so its not something that needs revealing on indymedia?

most of the posting on this site are somehow personal/personal involvement so im not sure people are keen to shout about the issues ie shout about their own mental health, not that people should be shy about talking about such things just i think people still are and im certainly not keen to do so?

if there is something that can be done to help people with mental health issues in irealnd from a "grassroots" perspective i'd love to know

by Angry Loaner with an Irrational Grudge Against Back-packers - The Working Worker Worker's Party (in association with the World Wrestling Federation) Tue Jul 06, 2004 21:13

A few months ago Mental Health Commission chairman Dr. John Owens spoke of a need for "community and home based care" and also said that a "move away from hospital treatment is needed". This smacked of Thatcher's Care in the Community to me, but that was a conclusion based on my own suspicious nature (can you blame me with the PD's in power?)

Owens wants increased spending on mental health (6.8% of the health budget at the time of his comments, a drop from 10.6% in 1990). Owens wants an increase in staff to help mentally ill people in the community. The Commission also say they are concerned about the rights of those who make up involuntary admissions. Ireland has the highest percentage of these in Europe.

This sounds a long way off from Thatcherism and, maybe I'm missing something, but it is hard to see the Commission as the problem here. The people who make up the board of the Mental Health Commission do not seem a dodgy lot to me either, three of them have suffered from forms of menatal illness themselves.

As for the drugs issue, schizophrenia, can (if the sufferer is very fortunate and the diagnosis is also correct) sometimes be treated with drugs. This must be a Godsend to the sufferers of the illness and those close to them.

Big Pharma are suspected of widening the scope of conditions that can be treated with drugs however, so that they can turn a greater profit.

The rights of acute sufferers is a very complicated issue as far as I can see. It is rarely discussed in the media. The realities of living with mental illness also seems to be off the agenda for the most part. It must be a taboo. Another one.

In a time when stress related mental illness (cause: capitalism, my diagnosis) is adding to the numbers of the suffering, maybe the varying types, differing causes, and possible treatments for mental illness should be coming higher on the list of priorities.

by guest Fri Jul 09, 2004 15:14

I just read up on some of Seans writings..... these are my favourite bits :

He proposes "Money Thereapy" for the mentally ill - this would involve giving them €200 per week. This is because he believes people with mental illness are "the last people on earth that employers would consider employing". And to think I thought money never makes you happy !

He wants the NDA to start "counting and tracking all disabled people in Ireland". It sounds like tracking animals or something.

He claims most mental patients are unemployed and overweight.

I have never read such outrageous slurs in my life. His organisation should be banned.

by Angry Loaner with an Irrational Grudge Against back-Packers - The Anti-social Socialists for Socialism or Something Wed Jul 14, 2004 17:13

Some questions for IMPERO.
I have been reading and thinking about IMPERO's concerns and, while I appreciate many of them, I do have some questions and observations for IMPERO.

1: How many members have you at present?

2: What's the exact story behind the founding of IMPERO?

3: Where, and in what context, did you hear about 'agressive outreach teams" and injections "over the sink"?

4: The allowance of 200 a week, is that on top of disability etc?

5: Did you ever think that the nature of your postings could alarm someone in an already vulnerable and distressed state, like a menatlly ill person for example?

And just some observations on your observations of the mentally ill. I've probably not met as many as Sean Crudden but I've known a few sufferers and I know one very well.

Is this person sedated? No.

Unhappy? I honestly wonder if happiness or unhappiness has any real meaning for this person.

Slightly uneasy? Very uneasy sometimes, maybe that could be classed as unhappy.

Overweight? Underweight.

Poor? Yes.

Passive? Hell no.

Pushed a bike up a hill? maybe.

Finally, 'spurned by nearest and dearest': Family relations with some mentally ill people can be very complex. Sometimes the sufferer will push away family members (screaming, being violent) to such an extent that families will have to negotiate how to help the sufferer and at the same time keep their distance. I've no doubt some people spurn their ill family members but as a generalisation it is a judgmental one. It is my observation that whole families suffer because of these conditions.

Like most conditions in life though, my ultimate conclusion is that no two cases are the same. Helping mentally ill people is a complex business that probably has a lot more to do with listening to the sufferers and those close to them than anything else.

by Sean Crudden Wed Jul 14, 2004 22:02

Hi Angry Loaner. I have been reading your comments and am very grateful for them. You seem to me to have a good grasp of the scene - better than I have myself for I am no professional. If you contact me by phone or e-mail I will send you details of the foundation (15 years ago) and the founding policies of impero.

by Sean Crudden Thu Jul 15, 2004 21:48

Hi Angry Loaner.
I deleted a few e-mails today without opening them and without paying much attention - there may have been one from you among them. I am breaking in a new computer and I am quite paranoid about viruses and, indeed, I am receiving quite a few. If you have sent an e-mail perhaps you would consider forwarding it again or - better still - send another with "Angry Loaner" in the subject line so that I cannot possibly mistake it for something else.

by Anthony Thu Jul 15, 2004 23:45

Angry Loaner's questions (1-5) are valid queries and I think the answers to them would be newsworthy for Indymedia. You may prefer to communicate the answers to those questions through private correspondence but I'd imagine that other readers interested in this issue will also be interested in the answers. I myself would be interested in reading a summary of the background behind Impero. It might not be a bad idea to have such a summary (like an "About" web page) at the top of your current web page.

by guest Fri Jul 16, 2004 13:17

Yes, why are you prepared only to answer the questions in private? What are you afraid of?

I am especially interested in hearing how many members you have, specifically how many members have attended your last few meetings and how frequent are these meetings?

by Sean Crudden Fri Jul 16, 2004 21:49

Hi Anthony, Guest and Angry Loaner

It's just a question that I have a stock of hard copy here that outlines the origins of impero and it is standard practice with me to send it out to students or anyone who sends in an enquiry here about impero and I would without the slightest difficulty send the same pack out to each of the three of you if you would kindly send me in your details.

There is no secret about the fact that impero is, at present, a very small organisation - it never was big and, in recent years, no meetings or assemblies have been held. However we try in a limited way to preserve transparency about impero through our web page - humble and inadequate though it is. And all enquiries are answered promptly and as accurately as possible. We also have an internet mailing list (this too is underused).

There was a second web page for a number of years - more descriptive than
the "Sequens" page - which we were unable to preserve through different subscription changes that iol have put in place over the years.

If you could turn your talents to a little research you could find out more about impero by consulting the "Directory of Community and Voluntary Healthcare Organisations" published earlier in the year by The Wheel. And you will find details of impero in other directories at home and abroad.

Let me stress that impero is a totally voluntary organisation which has no intention of misleading or exploiting you or anyone else.

You will also appreciate that it is slightly distressing for me to take criticism which borders, in one or two instances, on contempt and bad manners from people who take little trouble to study the text available and who make little effort to think out for themselves what an organisation like impero might be about. The fact that you hide behind the anonymity of noms de plume also puts a question mark against the authenticity of your positions and your concerns.

by guest Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:39

Again, you have refused to answer the questions asked. So much for transparency.

So I'll ask again, how many active members have you got?

Does it not strike you as odd that you refuse to give out information about your group and expect us to "turn our hands to research" ? Do we need to learn a secret handshake before we can be trusted with this secret information or something?

Do not use a public forum to spread your opinion if you are not able to take criticism.

by Sean Crudden Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:54

Dear Guest

I am glad you asked me that question (and your charm is irresistible). But I cannot give you a simple number.

The only record of the membership of impero is on the last computer I used - which belonged to impero. That computer was disassembled about three weeks ago when a new computer replaced that old one which had been in use since 1996. Unfortunately I forgot to get the database of the impero membership loaded up on this new computer and I think it could be a few months before I eventually succeed in doing so.

It is about a year since I last looked at the list so what I am going to outline to you is taken from memory (and my memory is not great at this stage in my career).

There are about 123 names on the list which records everyone who formally joined impero as either a member or an associate member since impero was founded on 1 April 1989. About 5 of these people have died (and they were some of the most supportive members of impero). Requiescant in pace. One person formally resigned from impero a few years ago. He is still recorded on the list and he maintains contact with me.

There are people from all corners of Ireland north and south recorded on that list and we have two associate members in Wagga Wagga in Australia.

To be precise I doubt if any of the members could be described as "active" now. That is not to say that rigor mortis has set in. A charitable way to describe it is to say that the organisation is in sleep mode. So the literal answer to your very profound question is probably "zero."

The committee of impero have left it largely to me as secretary to run the organisation any way I like and it has not been a difficult task over the last 15 years - although I have had to do a good deal of correspondence and writing (which is appropriate enough work for a secretary to do).

At the moment impero is as little trouble as a sleeping child.

It may well be that impero’s most important days are history. On the other hand there is no pressure on impero - financial or otherwise - and it can continue at its present level of (in)activity for as long as I can keep my faculties (I celebrated my 60th birthday on 9 April 2004).

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Wed Sep 22, 2004 22:45 archbishophynes at eircom dot net Greenore Co Louth 0871389426

Well Sean

I think it is lying down literally. It reminds me of a scared dog that was battered by a previous master and the new owner is trying to train it. Well be gorrah he has some hell of a job on his or her hands.

+Michael D