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The Citizenship Referendum – The Government’s Proposals
national |
rights, freedoms and repression |
opinion/analysis
Tuesday June 08, 2004 20:36 by Margaret
How the Givernment plan to legislate on the citizenship issue "Once the Referendum is passed". The Citizenship Referendum – The Government’s Proposals |
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Comments (12 of 12)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12we both come from the Levant, the occupied territories of the Palestinian authoritiy to be precise.
Will our baby, we haven't a name yet but we're thinking about "jayzus" be able to leave Ireland, as we neither of us have citizenship rights in our country along with three million of our fellow nationals.
Now Mikey who is the pharasee?
Might I just add, that maybe I should have had an abortion.
Now Mikey who is the saducee?
Are we being obtuse? It would cost less than two months of a MEP's salary to bring a pregnant Palestinian to Ireland. You want to expel them thereafter?
The reason students' time in the country doesn't count is because if you travel to most countries on a student visa, your status is that of "non-resident".
I guess it's the same with asylum seekers, in that they are strictly not resident in the state until they have been regularised i.e. granted refugee status, but I'm not sure about this.
Basically between citizenship, nationality, residency, permission to remain, etc. there is a real choice of ways to discriminate against anyone new to a country.
Although I agree with you that the issue of the referendum should have been given more time for discussion, the government have been pretty clear from the time they proposed the referendum what they planned to do if it was passed. The fact that you only found out this week isn't really Michael McDowell's fault.
Knowing full well that the voters do not tend to make discerning choices when presented with so many important decisions in such a short time.
Meanwhile, Mc Dowell has proposed a new fund for Asylum seekers in Europe.
Asylum law, is based on the Medieval common law concept of Sanctuary.
This is still held to be common law in most European countries, though France did legislate against it.
Of the 1600 people in the Cathedral, last weekend in Barcelona and the 250 others in the Church of the Pi, the majority were as is observed muslims, many from Pakistan, a country which is subject to many difficulties, and could arguably be a "political refugee" starting point.
Under the 14th (or is it 15th*) article of the Universal Human Rights declaration, no person may be refused asylum if they are genuinely at risk of persecution.
It is not clear whether the majority of Pakistani (and it must be said those of Afghanistani origin who have found Pakistani documentation) would qualify as such.
It is interesting that so many people from this very troubled corner of Asia, are choosing Spain in general and Barcelona in particular.
One might think that they would choose England or for that matter Ireland, sharing a common "post-imperial lingua franca". That increasing numbers are choosing to enter Spain suggests that asylum entry to the UK has effectively closed that "natural post imperial option" to these people.
Of the 1850 migrants who protested less than 20 were detained, and subsequently deported. And that's that.
* (i don't memorise universal declarations, I didn't go to that type of school )
"the government have been pretty clear from the time they proposed the referendum what they planned to do if it was passed."
I heard that this is the first time people are being asked to vote on a referendum in which the details will be worked out later - if it gets passed.
This sounds dodgy and not "pretty clear" to me.
Also
The Referendum Commission were slow off the mark, getting info out to the public.
Who's fault is that?
The referendum stinks.
**I heard that this is the first time people are being asked to vote on a referendum in which the details will be worked out later - if it gets passed.**
The details of the legislation will be worked out later, those of the referendum have be available since it was announced.
The legislative details have to be "worked out later", because until the constitution is changed via the referendum there can't be any legislation.
That's how these things normally work, although usually, and this time is no exception, the government will have proposed measures they intend to legislate for in the event that they can.
Lots of things stink about this referendum, but that's not one of them.
not only does the proposal say that anyone born on the island whose parents are not entitled to citizenship are also not entitled to be irish citizens, naturalization can happen after 5 years of being legally resident, not including time spent applying for residency and worst of all:
naturalisation -the giving of citizenship, will be at the sole discretion of the minister and can be revoked by him/her at any time for a variety of reasons including not being faithful to the state.
this would put internationals entirely at the mercy of the minister for justice & make their citizenship precarious always.
this is incredible. in other eu countries after a period of residency people can apply for citizenship but i doubt if it comes from a minister or can be easily revoked. anyone know for sure?
this is even worse than what i imagined.
there will be no clear criteria for who can get citizenship if this is passed & no way of proving discrimination.
citizenship will be at the whim of bigoted right wing idealogues.
help get this info out.
now!
"The legislative details have to be "worked out later", because until the constitution is changed via the referendum there can't be any legislation."
This sounds like a lame excuse.
Why aren't these details available in advance?
In general, concerning the referendum process,
I'd be concerned that some of these legislative 'details' could give the govt. powers.
that were not forseen in more broadbased debates.
Jayzus is a perfectly nice indigenous name to honour the birthplace of your offspring (I presume yez are at the book larnin' in Dublin?). But I think your condition is making you a little hysterical or you wouldn't contemplate the sin against God that is the genocide against babies.
Now, this hysteria also applies to your worries about residency in Ireland. It is quite obvious that you will be able to live here illegally and that your chances of being caught are fairly low -- after all that's been the pattern of illegal immigration everywhere else in the world. If you find a suitably corrupt Irish employer (shouldn't be too hard, actually I'm looking for a nanny meself) then you will be able to live out a long, unpleasant and inhumane life. Top o' the mornin' to ye!
The CIA has instructed all of it's puppet states to crack down on freedom of movement. First they crack down on immigrants, then the crack down on all Irish people.
Bertie and McDowell are powerless against the CIA interfrence, they could ruin the Irish economy in a matter of weeks.
I think that students should be classed as resident while they are here for study. So what if that then qualifies them to be citizens by naturalisation?! What do you think they are doing when they're here. They are not in some compound away from the rest of Irish society. They are living here and are playing an active role in Irish society. I think foreign students should have full residency!
What will happen next? New catagories of non-resident visas willl be created so that the GOvernment don't have to give citizenship through naturalisation. It may come to a situation where non EU citizens come here with "non resident visas". It's disgusting!
VOTE NO
07:44 Saturday January 1st 2005
Changes in the Irish citizenship law, resulting from last June's referendum, are to be implemented from today.
The changes affect children born in Ireland on or after January 1st to parents who are not Irish citizens.
They will not be entitled to citizenship unless one of the parents has been officially resident in Ireland for at least three years preceding the child's birth.
just think
this time next year we may be back to the old tradition of reporting on the first child born of the new year without opening a running sore.