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dublin |
anti-capitalism |
news report
Tuesday December 02, 2003 15:02
by Attender
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Comments (34 of 34)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34Was there anything worth reporting on in detail?
'Marxism', like 'stalinism', 'maoism', communism, etc, etc is an obsolete term and an obsolute ideology. I'm not saying that the principles are wrong - its just that any group that clings so desperately to the same old names and words and slogans and examples just is not relevant. Those 90 people have been running on political autopilot for decades. They should wake up, have a good think about their basic principles, then communicate them in an accessible and creative way.
Actually Marxism probibly serves some weird social or psychological need in these people - like trainspotting does - and really has nothing to do with politics at all.
Any opinions on this?
That makes about one attendee per 100,000 posters. Certainly justifies the SWP's decision to go all out with promoting this recruitment fair, rather than putting up a single poster or anything else promoting the Shannon blockade. The good news is that they appear to be heading swiftly towards the status of the Sparts or Socialist Democracy - a small bunch of dogmatic loonies. Full speed ahead I say!
I was at a meeting with eamonn Mcann on Saturday that had about 200 at it and i guess a lot of people like me didn't hang around for the whole weekend. There seemed to be a lot of people coming and going. I went to a few excellent meetings, The one on Sunday on Church, State and Child abuse had a member of the Magdalene memorial committe speaking and that was well attended as well. But the one i most enjoyed was the debate between Patricia Mckenna from the greensand Owen Mcormack on Saturday. I would say the best speech was on Friday night though from the American Socilaist and author MIke Davis. He talked about how the UN is predicting that over half of humanity will live in slums by 2020 and that this poses enormous challenges for activists. Overall a great weekend of debates and ideas.
I wasn't at the rally with McCann at it, but judging from your breathless SWP tone, Bart, you will have to forgive me if I apply the standard skepticism to your attendence count.
I was at the final rally. There were 90 or a few less people at it. I counted but I can't be precise because some people left. I was at a number of other meetings over the weekend and my general impression was that it was a lot smaller than the last one I was at.
Anyway, was there any actual debate at any of the sessions you were at?
sorry steelie but personally i've put up hundreds of posters for the shannon blockade as have every other branch of the swp. Anyway i guess you haven't the slightest bit of interest in facts. But the internet, particularly this site, seems the perfect place to bullshit. Now i'm off to put up some more posters so by the tome i get back to this i guess evey other eejit with an internet connection will have consigned the swp to history. Good thing all that shites of no consequence in the real world.
You've been hiding them then, I suppose? Putting them up in sewers and at the bottom of wells?
At least In Dublin, the only IAWM posters have been put up by the GNAW. Maybe elsewhere SWP people have been putting them up, but the SWP are at this stage only really relevant in Dublin anyway. Oh the lucky culchies!
You are being very unfair to trainspotters in making that comparison. At least trainspotters don't stick posters up everywhere, making the place generally untidy.
And they don't go around with megaphones, inflicting crappy slogans on the general public.
MEMORANDUM
3.12.2003
Marxism, like any political or ideological dogma is very like to fail for one simple fact; you can always control your own thaugs, but you can not seen, what is an other man's mind.
Besides, I think it is far and much better for all of us commit our acts as much in a human way as possible.
In Marxism like in capitalism people become corrupted; the only difference is the people, who really care.
You can not share everything in an equal way, but basic should be quaranteed toeveryone. Who needs to make more and is talented should be given a change.
As I have seen how Marxism works in practise, I can not support such an idealogy. As I have also seen, what does an irresponsible capitalism do, I can not support such an idealogy either.
If one undestands democracy, then he or she is able to undestand its weaknesses id est lapsus, and I must say, I do not support deamocracy either; it is an other idealistic model, which human beings always ruin. Democracy need to be controlled by those, who has got higher moral and ethics, that human beings (or at least most of us), and by those who understand more, than more of us.
So, it is a pretty hopeless situation (for all of us).
Tell U one thing; Do you have a wife, a child, a house, a work and an education? Or some of these? Well, these Finnish Socialists took them away from me, that's I do not not believe Socialism.
It a bit opposite, that your red wing IRA? That is why I do not believe in politics. In the end people start figting... But maybe I do believe to Irish as human beigns... either way, better not to comment on something I can not fully understand (you circumstance). I just want to say, all politics seem to stink.
God just wished to say his regards, that no one has not really seen him... I really could not be either one of your religion, since I know someone directly.
I wonder why marxism is so umpopular.
Has it got anything to do with Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Chomsky, Kim in North Korea..
etc. etc.
Yawn.
One of these things is not like the others...
Chomsky: "If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism"
They had a talk at Marxism entitled "The politics of Noam Chomsky". I'd say the odds of them actually mentioning anything about Chomsky's politics are zero. I'd say that even the most far-right capitalist wouldn't have the gall to give a presentation on Chomsky's politics without even mentioning them - just shows you how great the SWP are when mainstream politicians consistently surpass them in honesty and ethics. I'm sure the talk went "Chomsky says capitalism is bad, therefore we all have to join the SWP." If anybody was at the meeting, they can correct me if I'm wrong.
The live one, or the stuffed one?
Aren't dynasties great?
there were 200 people listening to McCann, Marxism was a total failure. 120 people + attended the Grassroots Gathering in Galway, i.e. went to a gathering with no big names, far away from Dublin and organised with little or no resources.
It is clear that activists are starting to see through the hypocrisisy of SWP revolutionary rhetorics. People who have seen them acting as the first line of police at demo after demo are not likely to impressed by the
RRRevolutionary pontifications of Allen, Barrett and Co.
i heard amongst one of the issues debated was "world trade and WTO" etc.
it was on at the same time as
"Global Democracy:Role of the WTO, IMF,World Bank" organised by debt and development coalition and trade matters.
there was hardly any activists, of any kind at it, there was about 40 NGO`s.
its a pity as this serious issue was not attended, different sides explored, alternatives created.
just like to know why so little people attended
and also why there has been no comment to the article
?
dunk
It only encourages them
is where lots of people live: 5 million in Ireland. 1 million in Dublin.
But in the West there are more sheep than people. Happy days for you I guess.
how would we even know what trade agreement was being discussed & where if somebody wasn't willing to plough through reports & sit through frustrating meetings?
to dismiss anyone as reformist without even knowing what they do is way too easy.
the ngo's can provide facts & figures, great up to date info was available at the meeting last sat.
we can provide action.
our existence strengthens their bargaining power & they have general respectability based on not having a political agenda.
2 pronged approach.
if a couple of activists hadn't gone to the wto conference last sat. the question
"are these organisations reformable or should they be scrapped" wouldn't have even come up because ngo's don't seem to see an alternative. they 're trying to deal only with what exists & reckon there'll always be similar organisations to the world bank, wto etc so they need to deal with them.
if there had been more of us it would've come up faster & sparked a useful discussion.
as it was we went for lunch with the speakers to discuss it., including the possible problems of unilateral agreements if the wto is scrapped without an alternative , leading to even less information & accountability .
a good point, illustrating the need to talk to the people who have the info we need.
If, as one person has suggested : "The good news is that they appear to be heading swiftly towards the status of the Sparts or Socialist Democracy - a small bunch of dogmatic loonies" - then how can they possibly be dominating every single campaign within a thousand miles of here, as lots of people on Indymedia seem to think?
Well in the black North the Sp are as irrelevant as the sparts or SD.
If the Socialist Party are so irrelevant why are people such as yourselves spending so much time on numerous threads attacking us.
167 votes for Barbour show how irrelevant the SP are.
"black north"
Stop that shite you bigot.
Why have the SP got no sense of humour or irony?
silly me.
Bigot = humour
how could i have missed it???
Saying that the Orange Order have the right to march down "Arteriel Routes" (including the Garvaghy and Lr Ormeau) is bigotry.
Calling the SWP sectarian because they supported the parishoners at Harryville is also bigotry.
Thank god I can see the light at last.
If the OO are bigots that is enough reason for people who use this site to be bigots as well.
Is that it?
Its the SP who describe the Garvaghy and Lower Ormeau Roads as Arteriel routes. Its the SP who called the SWP sectarian because they supported the Harryville parishioners.
Its the SP who are the bigots.
SWP member "Irony is Dead" responds to reports that his/her organisation's showpiece annual event was very poor by... defending the event? No... Explaining why the event was poor and how it will be better next year? No.... Throwing bizarre allegations at another left wing organisation? You got it.
I'm glad to see Irony is Dead adapting to the general culture of this place.
SWP uncritically called for a vote for SF in nearly every election in the past 20 years.
SF are a right wing nationalist sectarian party that when in power have implemented Thatcherite policies.
how do the SWP think that Protestant workers woulf be won over to socialism or your party when you are supporting SF
The SP refer to the Garvaghy & Ormeau roads as Arteriel Routes; when the SWP organised a counter picket at Harryville to oppose the Loyalist Bigots, the SP condemned the countr picket as sectarian.
Bullshit. Where are your references?
The fact is that the SWP give support to Sinn Fein, a right wing nationalist party. Whn in power they have implemented a neo liberal agenda. How do the SWP think they will win over Protestant workers?
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62261&results_offset=150
Dispelling myths
by SPer Tuesday, Nov 25 2003, 12:38pm
2) The SP opposes secterian marches. The SP especially opposes marches through residential areas that have no rhyme or reason. However when it comes to aerterial routes, main thouroughfares and town centres it's a different kettle of fish. In this case dialogue is proposed about the conduct, route etc of the march.