The Shutdown of Indymedia Italy

by Blair - Citizen Journalism/Open Publishing Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:07

It's called "predictive policing"

The police will be able to gain access to the IP addresses and details and thereby compromise what we know as Open Publishing. Bristol has basically closed up shop as the server is compromised.

Mr Savage, the media war-horse, is due to step down from the RTE board along with 6 others. UTV Ireland starts up in January 2015 with Pat Kenny taking the lead role.

Does Citizen Journalism have a future....the picture sure looks bleak when u look at the radical fall in Indymedia Ireland statistics for the past year.

Blair

by Joe Mc Thu Jun 13, 2013 18:34

RTE is the media wing of the free state I suppose , but if it were to be close down in the way that ERT has been , you could just imagine the type of media conglomerate that would be waiting in the wings to take over at Donnybrook !

by Comyn - Freedom of Expression; Power of Government Thu Jun 13, 2013 15:57

Does anyone know what RTE is paid from the licence fees it receives?

Does anyone know how many people have not paid the licence fees in the last year and who have been brought to court; and who have failed to pay again, and have been sent for a stint in our prisons? Some say as many as 200.

The closure within 24 hours in Greece of a state sponsored media with 2,500 staff should send shivers up the backs of Irish people because this is absolute power and the question is the origin.

We all know that the past few years have highlighted the over-payment to certain presenters at RTE and that reductions have occurred. Kevin Backhurst joined the team from BBC world service and improvements especially in investigative journalism mark his inclusion to the RTE team.

However, it would be most disturbing if there was a possibility of what happened to ERT in Greece in Ireland and we share near the bottom of the rung of the ladder with them, at the hands of the Troika. This EU/ECB driven war is not a military war but an economic war and those who have power need to be watched. Media is state sponsored and can be criticised but it is essential to observe the role it plays in our society.

RTE foreclosed like a private company being liquidated is not what the people of Ireland would sanction. Yes, we can ask that it is run in a more efficient, cost effective transparent way and this is about good business practice but we need it, as we need its competition TV3, because it represents Ireland's basic civil rights to being informed about what happens.

Indymedia is a contributor to the information pool and as we witness what could happen in Greece, let us ensure that citizen journalism continues to provide a platform that serves the people of Ireland and beyond.

by O'Malley - Citizen Journalism Wed Jun 05, 2013 16:08

Great debate these days on Indymedia and the fears of November 2012 fade deep into the distance.

The National Union of Journalists are hosting the 28th International Federation of Journalists world conference in Dublin this week. President Michael D. Higgins opened the conference with the strong words that it is "a time for reminding ourselves of the obligation to ensure and support press freedom around the world". Press freedom is about reform, making changes, abiding by the Rule of Law, tackling corruption, and creating democracies, reminding governments about the separation of power; the checks and balances that should apply.

Freedom of the press also is about the public good, about the personal safety of those journalists who report without fear and high risk war zones even to the extent of losing their lives and for over a decade now Indymedia Ireland has made a significant contributions, even one could say, ahead of its time. Citizen journalism is contested because of fear of those in commercialised media but it is necessary to create the competitive advantages associated with discourse from grass roots. The internet, the twitter, social media have made possible interactions between people beyond national borders and creates new possibilities to foster better human rights practices world wide.

President Michael D. Higgins subtlely but rightly so draws our attention to ownership of the media and the power vested therein. He said that "concentration of power of owners, cross-ownership, advertisers' pressure or even from the reticence of journalists to challenge perceived wisdom" is also a threat to press freedom and plurality. Indymedia is the outlier and for that reason alone deserves its place in Irish media. .

Today's Independent has a neat cartoon that sums up President Higgin's comment about the power of the internet search engines. It is an imperative for people who engage through writing etc to consider the power vested in these companies who have CONTENT and the fact that this is the "exclusive preserve" of large MNC's. Its about the paradox. You give content, you get paid or you give content for free.

The cartoon is simple.

A photograph

To the left is the Apple and domain

To the right is Ireland

Could it be that we talk Apple power entity in the future instead of Ireland? Apple is so financially endowed, it could possibly own Ireland and wipe the debt?

To date these companies have got access to the data but they are in search of the analytics to use the data, and this is what must retain a value or even a form of copyright.

O'Malley

by Comyn - Indymedia: Freedom of speech/expression Tue May 21, 2013 15:55

But Indymedia continues in Ireland and it is time for acknowledgement of citizen journalism as a component structure that involves the Rule of Law, democracy, and the importance of connectivity among people at grassroots level who can access this form of media but in a collective way. People are free to use a variety of sources from internet cafes to libraries to their homes systems. It just takes a little bit of giving of time, and an interest in the society we live in.

Today's Independent reports that the 'NAMAwinelake cup runs dry'. Like Indymedia Ireland (but a far shorter time in existence) this anonymous but highly 'influential' site bites the dust. All of those who called themselves 'NAMA watchers' now need to look elsewhere and where better but to check out Indymedia Ireland search and start from now on to create a new dialogue on Ireland's greatest monopoly of property divestiture from the bankrupted Celtic Tiger developer delinquents and the inherent power that goes with the privilege that monopoly and state funds can create. They say the 'pen is mightier than the sword' and we need to keep watching and reporting.

NAMAwinelake quite rightly is described as a 'labour of love'. It concerned the web documenting of everything concerned with NAMA. Three and half years it has existed with as many as 2,700 separate articles posted on their website. What a shame that we must say good bye to this form of citizen journalism in a country whose press media is shrivelling and becoming more and more focused under their control of new elites who want to excel in their control of the print media. Ireland must open up the avenues to citizen journalism and dissuade the paid journalists from feeling challenged by it. We need that diversity especially now.

'NWL - as it became known to the aficionados - was notoriously dismissive of what they called the "old media" and happy to have frequent pops at named journalists......'. NWL became a great source of interest for all kinds of people, from the investor, to reporters, to ordinary punters, and even politicians (if the truth is known) - in fact anyone interested in NAMA ' since the toxic debt agency, shiny-faced asset manager was set up'.

The good news is that the Archive remains (as exists with Indymedia) and includes the posts and the comments. Therefore it becomes a feature in time that is a valuable resource thanks to the anonymous people go gave of their time, their resources, their education, their social commitment and so much more to keep the plain people of Ireland and beyond informed. This is a sad loss to citizen journalism.

However, they suggest there is a Book on the way....anybody ever think of creating an Indymedia book. Indymedia Ireland is now a decade reporting. So much was covered from the Peace Process, to Tara, to the Corrib.......

Comyn

ps it would be great if some form of editing applied to Indymedia archives for typos

by Blake - Perspective Thu May 02, 2013 16:05

How is Indymedia Ireland getting on these days? Is there any reason that it appears to shut-down every so often? Let us hope we are not heading the same way as Greece with the site feeling challenged by Government and power of the elites and forced into closure? If we take Labour Day in Ireland, we had such a poor showing of people in comparison to the rest of the world. Why have we such apathy? In the days of Tara, Shell and the Corrib, the fledgling Peace Process it was Indymedia contributors who reported on what was happening and it was consistent - the archives are proof of this. Sadly, writers on Indymedia have diminished to such a degree now that if Indymedia Ireland was to close down, it is probable that there would be no-one who wound march like in Greece or Italy to support citizen journalism. This is shameful. Take stock of this quote from an earlier posting; there must be ways of invigorating this citizen journalism mechanism.

'The main raison d’etre for Indymedia’s existence is no longer there. Correspondingly the usage has dropped significantly over the last few years. Those whose main outlet for their political documentation was Indymedia now use their own blogs or websites, twitter, flickr, demotix, youtube or vimeo and facebook."

There must be a way of encouraging people to return to Indymedia or for new people (where are the students, why so little engagement re Susi for example) to endorse citizen journalism. Why is it in Ireland that our newspapers are not following the trend of the Guardian with citizen journalism - this surely is a positive for Indymedia Ireland to continue to struggle to exist because there is a future for what it has done for independent reporting of events over the past decade. The Seomrai-Spraoi has been interconnected with Indymedia in the past - last week's Irish Times had a half page article on Seomrai Spraoi which appears not to have been reported by Indymedia Ireland.

Ireland Inc - in days gone by, it would have been said that if England gets a cold, then Ireland gets pneumonia. Now, it is Europe with its Euro that has caused the cold and we are swept up in apathy from the pneumonia without a capacity to communicate or interact to express how it is we truly feel. We have embraced the denial and not the anger that goes with the five stages of Grief. We need solidarity because what is happening in Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Italy is savage imposition on the vulnerable members of Europe and unemployment is the tool to destruction for many people and most importantly are young people. Bilderberg takes care of the elites but what about the ordinary person who needs to work to survive, they must represent themselves by expression and citizen journalism. Both sides of the coin are needed to blend the outcome.

Maybe there is a little hope as our President Michael D. O'Higgins possibly over-steps his Presidential role and urges people to engage with taking a stand about Ireland, the debt, and at least he suggests that maybe eurobonds (like George Soros) may be part solution. No doubt we don't understand what Eurobonds are but we should. The internet exists and Google explains and gives us access to what it is that Hedge Fund Manager's like George Soros (billionaire) has to say, a man now in his 80's with vast experience. The time is now for the people to engage with that basic human right of 'Freedom of Expression' otherwise poverty in our nation will become an all consuming source of disinetegration for our small open economy nominated one of the PIIGS....it is time to stand together.

Indymedia: what can we do?

Where is the momentum to tackle Trade Unions so cosy from benchmarking and aloof from so many made vulnerable in the retail/services sector. So much going on and so few really interested - makes it a country in denial. Yes we appear the exemplary student of our master Merkel but her game is re-election in September. We need to know what we want from Germany to enable us to be a survivor. We need write-downs of debt or eurobonds.

by Terence Thu Dec 06, 2012 21:01

I think the problem is not really that people would come back to Indymedia because at its height there was less choice than there is now. So you will find that many of these people have moved onto other projects which they are fully engaged in. Having said that maybe there could be some level of renewed interest and engagement with Indymedia.

What Indymedia needs though is content and good writers willing to do a bit of research because for any site, I think this is very important but it tends to be suffer either positive or negative feedback. I have always been surprised by how few decent writers they have. Perhaps they are on all the other sites. But there are surely many people out there who could even write 3 or 4 stories a year that really dig into an issue and present original analysis and perspective.

As regards fundraising, there is hopefully something planned for mid January. In the meantime if you care to make a donation, please see the donate page http://www.indymedia.ie/donate for details on making a lodgement

by Blake - Indymedia Wed Dec 05, 2012 14:15

Wageslave, Terence, Alec

Today the news is Ireland features considerably higher up the ranks of Transparency International in the index for corruption. The message here surely is that mainline media, RTE, Twitter or for that matter Facebook are not satisfying the niche in the market that once was held by Indymedia. Take Tara, the Corrib, the Good Friday Agreement, the Peace Process, Palestine, reporting by citizen journalists brought together interaction of people with like minds and views to engage in argument, discussion. Surely it excels in comparison to the personal blog or twitter where the other side has the right to accept you on their system or delete you. For instance someone who has had an interest in tourism for decades and has written on it on Indymedia can find themselves blocked from a twitter account of a Tourist bodies Twitter. The words of John Hume ring through in another dimension and that is citizen journalism and the importance of 'diversity in unity'

What can Indymedia do? Where there is a will there is a way? What about those people of a decade ago, can we not encourage them back for the Christmas period to go to the archives, retrieve some of the postings and say report what has happened over time. What about the politicians, the media that currently piggy-back, the young generation who need to tackle narrative, discussion versus pure sound bites.

Indymedia reported on the CAB, Corruption, Gardai, to name but a few. Now is the opportunity to kick start it back into action.

Is there anyway that Indymedia can advertise for more funding because I would like to help. Also in the past, there used to be a few gigs in various pubs. I believe this is worth looking into again. I deeply appreciate like many others the chance of airing my views with total aninomity and also I want to say the moderators on this site that give their time free and all the shit and hazzle they have to endure they deserve as much credit as possible and support too.

Blake

by Contributor to Indymedia Ireland - Endorsement Sat Dec 01, 2012 15:24

It is so easy to criticise and I agree and wholly endorse all that Wageslave has said in the previous posting.

For a start there is a significant archive of material on Indymedia Ireland which exists via a google search and although not necessarily highlighted in bibliographies, the reality it is that it is a provocative source of material for media to be coerced into reporting on (that which otherwise would never come to the public arena). We need Freedom of Speech, we need contributions to citizen journalism to ensure all types of audiences are provided for. Twitter is a great means of making you think but don't forget you can make short comments but invariably tweets refer to news items/articles so this says we need 'ALL' kinds of sources and involvement in the media process. What we have over the past 10 years of Indymedia Ireland is contribution of people who place a value on what they choose to give by way of writing and the power of the written word for our society as distinct from those in paid media who base their contribution on cost.

Indymedia Ireland used to have a statistics indication of reading population. Is there anyway of finding out now how many hits it receives today? The standard is higher now than before with a lot of the old committed contributors writing once more. Contributions are essential and it is necessary to curb vicious and bullying trolls because their motive is based on maliciousness not the public good.

The archives are excellent and worth reviewing. However typos can be a problem, can old postings be edited? If so, how?

Encourage people to become involved and rest assured of the 'need to know' factor that can be provided for on twitter but needs further clarification at grass roots level ie from the people on the ground who know what is actually going on.

by wageslave - (personal capacity) Sat Dec 01, 2012 13:48

I'm defensive when people suggest we should fold, give up and leave it to fucking facebook. Rightly so.

Guess what? We KNOW how people are using the internet these days. You yourself admit that it's a mistake and they should know better.

to quote: "For what its worth I think facebook is a pile of dogshit, I hate it. And dont even get me started on Twitter."

Yet you actively take time to come here, not to post an article, not to comment informatively on an article or event, but just to post the tired old "indy is dying and should just give up and leave it to facebook" spiel. How exactly do you think that helps us?

Are you surprised if I don't welcome such unconstructive sentiments and insistence on repeating the obvious about how people use the internet with open arms when I and others are busy trying to keep this worthwhile site going?. Such posts don't really help.

If you were REALLY on our side, you would instead use the time it took you to write those comments to write a half decent article or maybe offer some encouragement or god forbid, make a small donation, not just make some cheap undermining drive by commentary.

People like yourself who in practice just can't be arsed making any real effort to support non corporate sites like this any more in any practical way and instead lazily migrate to the likes of corporate facebook instead of putting their efforts into supporting or building their own independent websites are actually part of the problem.

[ quote:"FB is a more reliable source these days for finding out about actions and what is happening in Ireland." So that proves that you evidently DO frequent FB ]

THATS why I don't respond as positively as you expected me to your "post". Not because there's something wrong with me, but because I see your lazy post for the poison it is, despite it's seemingly friendly tone. In fact it's that friendly tone that makes it all the more insidious as an undermining attack on this site.

If all you have to offer is stating the obvious about internet usage, and unconstructive and insidious poison couched in faux friendly comments which only serve to undermine our efforts, then we can do fine without that thanks.

And if you don't want to support our efforts in any concrete way, fine. Best of luck to you and off you go to your "dogshit" facebook or P.ie or whatever.

But don't expect me to welcome such lazy undermining sentiments coming from anonymous sources, even if they purport to be one of the good guys and are couched in otherwise friendly language.

"Aside from the architecture of the FB software being accessible & smooth, I think the non-anonymity thing (compared to here) equals a lot less trolls and sock puppetry, something which I feel pretty much trashed indymedia as a decent source; but then of course the idea of having people create a login was always shot down"

Probably true but its a bit rich after posting:
"IMC's ethos includes anonymity, yes? So take the rough with the smooth"

A login system was rejected to protect users and allow them to continue to post freely and anonymously. We aren't here to spy on our users unlike facebook or google.

Any trolling is the responsibility of users deliberately trying to harm us. Why blame us for the bad behaviour and choices of others ( and yet in the same breath complain that we moderate our comments too much)?

You say that some other IMC's "look like a regurgitated dogs dinner". It's only our strong moderation of comments that prevents this happening here. Well this is necessary because the fact is, people seem to behave somewhat better on the likes of the Guardian site than they do on IMC sites. Perhaps that's because on the Guardian site, there IS a registration / sign in procedure, logs of IP addresses are retained, commentary is only allowed on selected articles not every article, and perhaps the trolls realise there will never be any legal repercussions for any bile they might post here wheras this outcome is not quite as certain if they post on a large corporate site like the Guardian

Ironically you post:
"This site is actually one of the best remaining IMCs around."
and in the same post:
"For what its worth I think facebook is a pile of dogshit, I hate it. And dont even get me started on Twitter."

The obvious question then arises: So why not actually continue to support it then, maybe by posting the occasional article and linking to it instead of unconstructive drive by undermining commentary??

Sadly, I think the true reason is likely just plain human laziness. FB is much more convenient. Probably because the corporate millions poured into coding it make it more streamlined, accessible and easy to bang up a page on it or comment with minimum effort. It takes real effort on the other hand, to pen a decent substantial article. The structure of Facebook encourages shorter posts, trivial comments etc. Same goes for apps on our mobile phones only more so. After a while that's all we're able to do anymore. The medium IS the message.

I know this response might seem somewhat harsh but I feel sure you'll (in your own words) "take the rough with the smooth"!! ;-)

by ex Fri Nov 30, 2012 19:26

@wageslave
I hope you're not insinuating I'm some sort of infiltrator just because I happen to think that Indymedia has run its course.
You cant throw that out there when someone has a disagreement about something with you, its a low blow. Deal with the comment at face value please.
I'd always question who funds any media organisation, regardless of its orientation.
If you cant deal with a fairly basic question like that without raising your guard so much and making accusations then you have a problem as a media creator/editor/etc.
IMC's ethos includes anonymity, yes? So take the rough with the smooth. Without calling people cops.

IIRC in 1999, IMC was set up to encourage people to "[not] hate the media, become the media". And the commenting on stories as well (akin to that of a forum, allowing input from others apart from the gatekeeper) was fairly revolutionary for a news website. And as I mentioned, the 2002 example of RTS, where a story was carried one night on the news about people rioting in Dame St, and then IMC vid footage changing the 'truth' about what actually happened was a good example of 'citizen journalism'.
You didnt need much - just a video camera, a decent broadband connection, and a bit of working knowledge with FTP and video conversion software to stick it up on video.indymedia.org (rip)

In hindsight, thats actually quite a lot of tech know how required, hardly accessible to the average joe, but still a lot more horiztonal than a news crew and TV station.

So whats changed in 13 years? Or even the 10 or 11 years since imc.ie was set up? Indymedia's aim of encouraging people to "become the media" has come to pass. Every phone these days has a camera. Video sites like Youtube and Vimeo are easy to use in terms of a low tech barrier for access, and you dont need to process your footage from the phone. As I said, sites like that, the corporate media if you want to call it that, can handle way more traffic than a video imc site ever could - thus opening access up to large amounts of footage going up at once, documenting an incident, protest, movement or even entire revolution. The media revolution that IMC wanted happened, it just didnt stick with indymedia as its lone source for citizen publishing and comment.

Other "mainstream" news sites nowadays have comment engines, driving traffic - something which was not there in the past. In fact I dont think its a stretch to say that most of the time if you make a comment on here that "isnt news" (yawn, an outdated, old-media paradigm, conservative as hell), the same comment you make on a site like the Guardian, IT, etc will not be deleted at all, whereas on IMC.ie it just vanishes into the ether... sorry the 'hidden articles' list. And I know that commenting on editorial policy in the comments 'isnt allowed' either, but I hope you'll leave this one. If the BBC had not allowed any commenting about its recent Newsnight actions on its own site, would you think that was reasonable?

For what its worth I think facebook is a pile of dogshit, I hate it. And dont even get me started on Twitter. But if they're so awful then why do left groups, whose natural home should be here, use them? Aside from the architecture of the FB software being accessible & smooth, I think the non-anonymity thing (compared to here) equals a lot less trolls and sock puppetry, something which I feel pretty much trashed indymedia as a decent source; but then of course the idea of having people create a login was always shot down. But I dont use FB to organise or publicise actions - maybe some of the people who do can tell you. Maybe you should ask them - especially those who you work alongside or know.

The contribution of FB & Twitter in the Arab Spring is probably over stated... but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. People use it as a tool and it works for them.
They also use it as a publishing, commenting, and media distribution site. It gets results and publicity for them.
They can upload their media from protests, comment freely, link to others with ease.

This site is actually one of the best remaining IMCs around. Even the .org site, which looks the exact same as the day it went up, as far as I can tell, looks like a regurgitated dogs dinner. Looking on their main wire, they didnt update a feature between May and November this year.
Why would anyone visit that as a "news" site?

Even regular contributors, editors, and organisers of this site have left, with no replacements. Is that not a cause for concern - or a point at which you should take a good long look in the mirror? I'd think so.

Of course, I'm here commenting right now, so I'm aware of the irony of saying the site is of decreasing use! :-)
But honestly, I come here less and less, and as mentioned before, FB is a more reliable source these days for finding out about actions and what is happening in Ireland.

by (A)lec Fri Nov 30, 2012 13:46

Errata Corrige:

the name of the Italian Fascist Lawyer who has censored Indymedia Italy is Giulia Bongiorno, not Giovanna Bongiorno.

by wageslave - (personal capacity) Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:46

The answer to your question "ex" is that Indy still needs funds badly and is not funded by anyone externally.

I find your comments, while couched reasonably, somewhat troubling. The implication is that we are being funded by someone outside the collective and cannot be trusted. We're not and paying our bill is currently a serious problem for us.

Ironically, Facebook and the like get only token criticism in your post. Yet for certain they clearly serve corporate and government masters, have huge funding from dubious people and are clearly no friends of any effective campaign of activism that does not serve the goals of their benefactors. I seem to remember shell to sea facebook page being closed on a technicality, just one example close to home. There are quite a few.

There's nothing the powers that be would like more than to be able to shut down any campaign that irritates them with a phone call or a few key clicks of a mouse at any time. Facebook will comply. Paypal will comply. Twitter will comply. Ask Julian Assange about how such corporate infrastructure on the internet colluded and co-operated to stifle wikileaks and it's funding sources.

It's at least a little harder to shut down an independent site than one hosted on facebook or other such sites.

Sure, it's not being utilised enough. But if we manage to hang on it'll hopefully be still here when people finally wake up and realise that corporate sites can't really be trusted with their stuff and they need more independent sites to speak from.

but If it does go the way of other indy sites such as London, it will indeed be through lack of support and funding from the public. That's their own choice and they can currently still make it themselves. We will do our best to keep that choice open as long as we can but candidly it's not looking too great right now.

I also suspect many indy sites have been infiltrated at this stage. I'm sure the most logical approach from an infiltrator would be to quietly but firmly push from within the idea of closing the site because "it's no longer relevant" or "it's not worth it" or "it'll come back if it's needed" or "facebook is doing our job now". And we've certainly had that line from people. Such attitudes make me uneasy.

Personally, I think a site like this is more relevant than ever due to developments on the internet and technology over the past decade or so and the continual erosion of digital rights and privacy. Also socially I think we are at a turning point in history and it's not looking good.
Movements will need focus points, aids to organisation and a place to tell their stories not under easy state or corporate control. Places that don't spy on their location, their identity, and their movements.

Lets balance this rehash of the "poor ailing indymedia, who is funding you any way? you should just lie down and give up" conversation with a closer look at the alternative most people currently use

Here is some criticism of facebook from someone who knows:
http://stallman.org/facebook.html

Indymedia doesn't really look quite so bad after reading this. Personally I still believe in this site, despite it's shortcomings. And I think it still has a role to play. I'm not giving up on it without a fight.

by Terence Thu Nov 29, 2012 21:50

You've raised some good points. First off the previous fundraising covered the costs for quite a while and there was a change of the website hosting to a much cheaper option and currently our own contributions are filling the gap. There is a plan to do another fundraising drive in Jan.

The points raised about the dramatic change in the web landscape are certainly true and the corporate world for the present seem to provide much more powerful and extensive tools from Youtube, Twitter, Facebook and others. But I think it is wrong for activists or people in general to give up their independence and rely 100% on the corporate sector. Actually a good article was written here about how Facebook has already made their service less effective in using it for events and campaigns in order to help increase their revenue. http://www.wsm.ie/c/political-implications-facebook-pag...ising

On a related point, I sometimes don't understand why people don't use www.politube.org instead of YouTube. It's not that hard to provide a different link and continuing on that thread the point about activists using Facebook and other tools (where I might add there is no comprehensive archive), and "who should know better", they are bound to pay the price in the end for effectively being willfully ignorant about these types of practices. The wolf is not there to protect the sheep. On a related note, the big drive and push to shift Internet usage to smart phones and smart devices where there is less freedom to control the software and thus the parameters of the game is not good. The "freedom" of the Internet ultimately arose from the nature of the infrastructural software which is free and without it, it would never have developed the way it did. So while many Indymedias have closed and many more hang by a thread and I quite often wonder what is the point of continuing given the decline overall, I do think that letting it go may not be such a good idea. It does though need to change and evolve in something else. And I guess that gels with your last point where you say: " If it needs to be reborn sometime in the future, it will happen" -although I am not sure it will spontaneously re-arise in a new form on its own because all movements and projects are based on historical roots of other work.

by ex Thu Nov 29, 2012 19:13

@wageslave: I remember there was a funding donation request on the front of the site fairly recently - the deadline had passed for the payment of the bills, and the total goal was only about 50% reached. The bills were obviously sorted out in the end - how? Or by whom? (If its an independent media outlet, then I hope you'll understand why I'm interested in who, if anyone, is financially backing it).

Regarding the original news - related, IMC London folded recently. Voluntarily I might add. I think their statetment (link below) was stating the obvious, which many people felt, but did not necessarily vocalise. I think this paragraph from the statement summed it up best:

"The landscape of the internet changed and so too its usage by both individual participants, activist and campaign groups and indeed the mainstream media. The inexorable rise of corporate blogging tools and the mass adoption of facebook, twitter, flickr, youtube and third party curation and sharing tools has created new complex communities of interest and empowered the production, organisation and distribution of content as never before. The main raison d’etre for Indymedia’s existence is no longer there. Correspondingly the usage has dropped significantly over the last few years. Those whose main outlet for their political documentation was Indymedia now use their own blogs or websites, twitter, flickr, demotix, youtube or vimeo and facebook."

Some political activities / protests get published on FB and never on IMC.ie. And there are certains groups and organisations that should know better. But it is reality. And actions often get posted up here and then the people who use the site to advertise their events dont so much as bother as to write up a five or six sentence report, never mind record it or take pics at it.

IMC.ie was good in the past - I mean the prime example being the RTS footage in 2002, that was amazing, pure citizen media breaking through onto the mainstream and changing the perception of "reality", but as that Indymedia London statement says, now anyone has a camera phone with a 3G connection, and there are a million and one video uploading sites that can handle mass traffic better than any indymedia site could ever dream of. But now even good articles are few and far between, nothing to generate any serious, more light than heat debate. Writers just arent attracted to the site - look at the Blog Feeds in the left corner - why dont these people contribute their pieces directly onto the newswire? Because they dont value it as a good place to publish.

My advice is: let it go. If it needs to be reborn sometime in the future, it will happen. If not, c'est la vie.

by wageslave - (personal capacity) Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:46

link to site:
http://italy.indymedia.org/

it is indeed down. No info why except this notice. Guess we have to wait and see. However, most indymedia sites struggle to stay alive, pay their hosting charges and deal with tech issues at the best of times. This one is barely surviving and cannot manage to pay it's bills. We don't accept any corporate advertising and get little help from the general public who don't seem to appreciate sites like these until they are gone and they have nothing left but corporate facebook, a very fragmented blogosphere and RTE.

Help is always needed. If we continue not to be supported then likely you'll wake up to a similar notice here one day soon. Much to the glee of the current government, zionists, racists, warmongers, bureaucrats, police, corporations, banksters, financial terrorists and other such people the stories people freely publish here throw light on.

previous raid on indymedia italy:
http://stallman.org/italy-indymedia.html

Some further info on harassment of indymedia sites:
https://www.eff.org/search/site/indymedia