Citizens Defense Committee (CDC) Meeting

by CDC - Citizens Defence Committee Sun Mar 20, 2011 19:50 citizensdefence at hotmail dot com

Meeting report:

The inefficiency of the capitalist economic system is crystal clear for us to see here in Ireland since the so-called Celtic Tiger has been neutered. Vacant apartment blocks, crumbling half finished ghost estates, deteriorating infrastructure, zombie hotels and unused industrial units plague our cities and landscape. A consequence of a market system which allocates human and material resources for the purposes of profit and a quick buck. However, beyond the physical structures which we see wasted are the hundreds of acres of land in the Dublin area alone which was purchased by the Irish entrepreneurial class and primed for the construction of yet more Lego blocks, and but is now left idle due to a downturn in the capitalist market.

The working class which has been left to pick up the pieces and bail out these entrepreneurial parasites are facing mass unemployment and significant increases in the cost of their weekly shopping bill. With increasing mortgage repayments, fuel and heating costs, many people in Ireland, beneath the glitz and glam of existent societal wealth are in fact going hungry. As but one recent example: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056198...#8243;

The Dublin Citizens Defence Committee believes it is both politically and morally just to liberate these idle lands for the purposes of helping communities grow their own food in these increasingly desperate times. It is no good to simply distribute food to those in need, as many charitable organisations do. It has been decided that the CDC, as one of its initial initiatives to be implemented, will attempt to organise communities towards empowerment and activism through an urban agricultural scheme. This Urban Agriculture Initiative will be implemented in tandem with other initiatives to encourage and develop community involvement. The CDC has set about working towards this immediate aim.

by Curious Sun Mar 20, 2011 20:06

Where do you get your mandate from? Were some of your members elected to the Dail or do you have hundreds of activists attending your meetings?

You would have to be a very powerful movement with deep roots in the community to carry out what you suggest. Yet no group or recognised activist will admit to being involved in your hare brained schemes.

by CDC - CDC Mon Mar 21, 2011 15:02

Forward all queries to citizensdefence@hotmail.com or attend the next meeting when announced. I have no desire to debate with an anonymous nay sayer like yourself on indymedia.

by Joe Mc Mon Mar 21, 2011 20:02

I couldn't get to the meeting , but it's good to see this initiative from the CDC . In my view it has great potential . Calling it hare brained is an insult to people who have put a lot of effort into self-enpowering working class communities affected by the collapse of the economy .

I'd like to know where "curious" gets the idea that no group or recognised activist will admit to being involved with the initiative.Just because "curious" isn't in the know it doesn't mean that the CDC doesn't have roots in the community . Perish the thought , but if there is any register of recognized activists kept by the likes of "curious" , I for one wouldn't like to be included on it , thank you very much . Where did the Reclaim the Streets initiative get its mandate from , who gave indymedia ireland a mandate to set up an alternative to the corporatist media?

by Curious Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:47

You use Indymedia to advertise your meetings so you should expect questions. If you are not prepared to say who is involved then people will begin to wonder if you are just a small non-representative group.

You have far reaching plans which encompass several areas of work yet not a single named political or community activist has openly supported you. No political or community group has given its support.

I've come to the conclusion that you represent no one. You come across as a few cranky individuals who won't be taken seriously in any of the existing groups or campaigns.

by CDC - CDC Tue Mar 22, 2011 16:35

You do not know our plans and are therefore not in a position to comment how far reaching they are. If you want names, attend an announced meeting. Otherwise people will just see you as an anonymous crank on the internet who nobody takes seriously.

by Curious Tue Mar 22, 2011 18:35

You publish your minutes on Indymedia as well as your far reaching plans. Why are you so shy about letting readers know if you have the support of known activists and/or groups?

Your plans suggest that you are going to set up what sounds like a vigilante group to deal with anti social behaviour. What mandate do you have for this?

by CDC - CDC Tue Mar 22, 2011 19:57

We have no such plans. You are making things up. Attend the next announced meeting and inform yourself on both the plans and those involved, otherwise remain an anonymous internet crank who nobody takes seriously.

by Curious Tue Mar 22, 2011 20:25

This is from your own blog. Do you think people are too stupid to check on what you publish?

"CDC Meeting Report (12/02/2011)
Posted on February 12, 2011 by defencecommittee

On Saturday the 12th of February political activists gathered at a meeting in Capel Street, Dublin 2, to discuss the formation of a Citizens Defence Committee. Members of organisations such as eirigi, the ISN, Sinn Fein and the WSM attended in a personal capacity, while many independent activists from different left wing political tendencies also attended. Various practical initiatives were discussed including the waste relief initiative, household rainwater harvesting systems, community gardens, housing initiatives and initiatives around anti-social behaviour."
http://citizensdefence.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/cdc-mee...2011/

You have some nerve. You are the anonymous one despite your grandiose plans.

by CDC - CDC Tue Mar 22, 2011 20:41

You said - "you are going to set up what sounds like a vigilante group".

We have no such plans. Only in your narrow mind does mention of the term anti-social behaviour equal vigilantism.

Attend the next announced meeting and stop making things up.

by an opponent of slander Tue Mar 22, 2011 21:10

“Curious” uses indymedia to demand that activists posting to the site answer questions about their identity without identifying who s/he is or represents . It's no wonder that people have already begun to wonder who “curious” might possibly be .

"Curious" writes - using quotation marks - the following in his/her latest post : ' You said "you are going to set up what sounds like a vigilante group"'.

"Curious" should either say where s/he took that quotation from or else withdraw the allegation.

by Curious Wed Mar 23, 2011 14:21

This what is in your minutes: "initiatives around anti-social behaviour". Now what does that mean? You answer it. I drew my own conclusions. Prove me wrong.

Also, you would come across as less sinister if some known and credible activist publicly spoke on your behalf.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Mar 23, 2011 15:10

But we dont all live in duballin. It sounds like an interesting initiative, but I dont understand why you cant adress queries on this site.

Its posted here, so why not use the forum to enlarge on your plans?Would it not spread your ideas?And my understanding is that all comments, unless actually disruptive or self-serving, are valid. Take your time, but do elaborate.

by Joe Mc Thu Mar 24, 2011 16:27

I have been following the threads started by the Citizens Defence Committee on indymedia and there has been no mention of forming a vigilante group from CDC .Somebody calling him/herself "Curious" who is obviously hostile to the group's formation has accused the CDC of wanting to set up a vigilante group and of being a sham organisation describing it as “an anonymous cabal” that has no backing from what Curious refers to as "recognised activists”.

I agree that the newly-formed CDC should be given the chance to use Indymedia to enlarge on their plans . But the first thing that needs to be done on this site in my opinion is to defend the group from the false accusation that it is a vigilante group or that it aims is to set up a vigilante group.

CDC supporters have replied politely to Curious as far as I can see , despite the various insults directed against them including the claim that CDC may consist of just one person “with delusions of grandeur” . CDC has published photos on this site (see http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=98839) of its first meeting in Dublin in which I see two activists who I personally recognise . Neither of the two are in the left-wing political limelight - they are not the type of high profile activists that appear on the platform at every political meeting and rally , so it really shouldn’t come as a surprise that they aren’t recognizable to everybody . But surely the fact that people who aren't “recognized activists” are taking this initiative is the very thing that is needed . People should see it as a welcome development that advances working class grassroots democracy and not as some sort of a threat.

At a demonstration in support of the Middle-East and North African uprisings last month I met two members of the CDC group and one person who had attended their recent public meeting .They all impressed me by their seriousness and non-sectarian attitudes . We discussed amongst other matters the question of the anti-social behaviour proposal that had been raised at CDC’s first meeting. None of the three wanted to become involved with anything that smacked of vigilantism . Some CDC organizers ,like Dónal from North Dublin who wrote on the thread I linked to above , are ULA voters as was one of the members I spoke to last month. The fact that the group has stated - “We do not believe an over concentration on gaining seats through elections will help our socialist ends, nor empower the working class. “ should not put them outside the pale .

There are different ideas amongst those who consider themselves to be left-wing activists about the best way forward in the present crisis . Some believe that the way to defend workers and working class communities in the current slump is by electing left-wing TDs to the Dail , others think that working through the trades union movement is the best way to go . Others like myself believe that such approaches are doomed to failure and that the working class in this country as in all countries needs to start organizing independently of all institutions of the capitalist state so as to defend their communities at grass root level against the savage cuts being imposed on them at the behest of the international bankers .

“The focus for the immediate future is for the development and implementation of the housing, waste and community garden/agricultural initiatives” ... CDC

These are practical plans . If they are to be successful they will obviously need many more people than the CDC has at the moment to implement them .But the housing and waste plans address genuine and urgent needs . They therefore have the potential to draw masses of people into action and activism . The garden/agricultural initiatives may sound "grandiose" at the moment to the likes of Curious , but that situation could change rapidly over the coming period .