An Open Letter to Irish Writers

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Jun 21, 2010 13:15

Is this not all distracting from the fact that it is Micky mouseMartin that is supposed to be our Minister responsible for our diplomatic and passport rights and the rights of Irish shipping to free and safe passage on the high seas, particularly when on governmentally approved humanitarian aid missions to an ethnically repressed poulation?
Brian Friel or Seamus Heaney may be secret admirers of Israeli chutzpah, as are many Irish conservatives, or, more probably, otherwise concerned. Most 'writers' seem to be happy to pursue their careers at all costs, not unlike the average 'citizen'. We should not demand any more conscience from 'writers' than from butchers. In fact the ego inflation attached to such designations might suggest the opposite. Not much noise from Bono on the issue. Could be something to do with the investment portfolios. But instead of bemoaning the silence of the pens, let those who give a damn take up the scribing, whether on paper, placard, wall or website.

by non_voter Sun Jun 20, 2010 21:21

The policies of israel threaten jewish people in the region as well Skib. There are clear dangers of a regional war which could very well mean the use of nuclear weapons: The mighty IDF will not be able to save the jewish people of israel from the reprecussions.Even the good people of Skibereen would be affected if the nukes were to start going off:.

by Skibbereen Eagle Man Sun Jun 20, 2010 19:54

I would like to see an Irish creative writer pen a letter addressed to the Jewish people of Israel, appealing to them over the heads of their leaders, warning them of the terrible dangers that await the jewish people in the expansionist wars that their leaders are presently planning."

The mighty Israeli army will drop their rifles and run away scared from the comments of Irish writers I am sure.

by non-voter Sun Jun 20, 2010 15:45

Israel oppresses the Palestinians and not the other way around . This is not a tribal war but a colonial one , with Israel acting as the attack dog for America and its allies to secure imperialism´s access to and control over the energy rich region. Since its inception the racist zionist regime has acted as a military base from which the United States can project its power and as a bulwark against the development of any power in the region capable of challenging the US and its allies .

Fred has called for the breaking off of cultural ties with Israel , but we should in my opinion be careful to ensure that any campaign doesn’t impact on the important work of those living in Israel who support Palestinian rights and oppose Zionist racism . The artistic collaboration of Palestinian and Israeli film-makers in the production of such works as Ajami, for instance, should be celebrated and not in any way be impeded by a cultural boycott.

Irish writers might feel as if they don’t have an independent role to play any more than any other concerned people who support the Palestinian cause, but perhaps that points to a problem with current attitudes to creative writing – the mistaken narcistic view that writing isn’t any good if it is committed to anything other than its own limited world.

I would like to see an Irish creative writer pen a letter addressed to the Jewish people of Israel, appealing to them over the heads of their leaders, warning them of the terrible dangers that await the jewish people in the expansionist wars that their leaders are presently planning .

by Anti-Semanticism Sun Jun 20, 2010 15:41

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-an...96809

[Israeli] Prime Minister's office issues two statements, one in English announcing plan to ease blockade, one in Hebrew omitting to mention the decision.

The Prime Minister's Office announced on Thursday that the security cabinet had agreed to relax Israel's blockade on the Gaza Strip, but as it turns out, no binding decision was ever made during the cabinet meeting.

DO try and remember that the Israelis often SAY they are doing something when in fact they then go and do the exact opposite - so announcing the 'easing of restrictions' is what they SAY they will do - but in reality I doubt they will take any meaningful action in that regard - such as announcing 'Settlement freeze' (i.e.: stop stealing more land and building colonies upon it) and then they just continue building as if they had never said any such thing

For example they said a while back that they were going to remove some of the many many road-blocks they use to make life even more miserable for Palestinians - instead what they actually did was increase the the number of roadblocks - they lie all the time - never trust a Zionist

As expected, the announcement that Israel would 'ease' the blockade turns out to have been just one more lie in a looooooong list of Israeli lies- The Prime Minister's Office announced on Thursday that the security cabinet had agreed to relax Israel's blockade on the Gaza Strip, but as it turns out, no binding decision was ever made during the cabinet meeting.

And the announcement was only made IN THE ENGLISH version of the press release regarding the meeting.

Therefore you'd have to be an idiot to believe them - never trust a Zionist

Maybe I should have some faith in their 'good intentions', but I doubt they have any 'good intentions' the announcement is merely just to appease others - they have NO intention of doing anything meaningful ,

And personally I've long lost any faith in Zionist/Israeli public promises - it's like a tap - they can switch it on and off at will -as soon as the eyes of the world get turned elsewhere they will find a reason to roll-back any changes they make now - pure PR - never EVER trust a Zionist -

by Wally B Sun Jun 20, 2010 00:35

There are fixed certainties, fears and hatreds in the tribalist Middle East, sure. If I remember rightly good King Solly ordered a baby to be cut into two equal halves and its real mother asked that the whole live baby be handed to the false mother so its life would be spared. In the middle east today the rivals are subjecting the baby to death by a thousand cuts.

In Northern Ireland for thirty years the problem seemed insoluble too and solomonic interventions got nowhere. I heard learned folk describe the situation thus: the problem of Northern Ireland is that there is no solution. Two Quaker writers brought out a book with the title: Northern Ireland - a problem for every solution.

The Palestine-Israel problem will have its solution too some day; I've no idea when. The recent aid flotilla, in which some Irish interventionists were involved including nobel laureate Mairead Corrigan-Maguire, resulted in President Obama exacting from the Israeli Government a partial easing of the Gaza blockade.

by Scientist. Fri Jun 18, 2010 21:20

"Have any Irish scientists written to the newspapers about the Palestine-Israel issue?"

A tribal dispute has nothing to do with science.
Not a cop out comment.

Mutual hatred and loathing and fear and uncertainty is what the Middle East is all about.

Each side is self-certain in their beliefs............Beliefs drilled into them in childhood.

Scientists do not have "The Wisdom of Solomon".

by Wally B Thu Jun 17, 2010 00:27

This thread has been about ' writers' (poets, dramatists and novelists) and whether they should put their names to newspaper letters in support of the flotilla that tried to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, and to letters on public issues of the day generally. Fred Johnston, a published poet and novelist, says emphatically that Irish writers, especially those who benefit from arts council subsidies, travel grants or bursaries, have public duties as citizens apart from their artistic lives in literature. (Some writers like Dermot Bolger have, in their literary works, articulated the pain of the inarticulate victims of social injustice.) My assertion has been that writers can take public stances on issues of the day, but it is an individual moral choice for each writer as a citizen.

At no time was the philosophy of postmodernism invoked. I am not a postmodernist. If anything I'd harp back to elements of existentialism especially the emphasis on freedom and self will and the desirability of living an authentic existence in opposition to inauthentic existence. (I reject the despair and life-is-absurd elements, while granting that people are vulnerable to contingent tragedy.)

If ' Scientist ' wants to promote scientific empiricism so be it. It has a valid and honoured place in the progress of humanity, although the twentieth century saw examples of quasi-science and the uses of science for abusing and annihilating people.

Scientific empiricists can, as moral individuals, also lend their names to issues of the day and I would say it is an individual moral choice, not a necessity. Albert Einstein and Bertrand Russell were philosophers as well as scientists/mathematicians, and they actively entered the arena of public debate. Scientific enquiry has often led on to philosophical enquiry in the history of ideas.

Have any Irish scientists written to the newspapers about the Palestine-Israel issue?

by Scientist. Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:07

"If I were in the driving seat I'd invite some flotilla veterans, orphanage survivors, whistleblowers, relatives of murder victims, the long term unemployed, convicted abusers and other less predictables to share platforms with the RTE and UCD old hands. Bring on the fireworks."

You would really bring on the fireworks if you invited in some of the Scientific Community Wally B.

They would question whether what you represent is merely glorified fashion.

Post-Modernism has not yet been replaced by the next fashion:

"Post-Post Modernism."

And after that:

"Post-Post-Post Modernism"

Not yet anyway.
.

by Wally B Tue Jun 15, 2010 23:00

You are right when you imply that the usual personalities get invited to the summer schools held around the country. I once heard a friend referring to these events as "UCD and RTE going down the country on their holidays". Academics and journos are not the only people who know what's going on. I am in favour of the 'less predictable' loose cannons being invited to summer schools. Their voices can inject a livelier sense of debate into the proceedings.

The Status of the Writer in Society; Can Irish Poetry make Anything Happen?; Does a Writer's Opinion count for Anything?; Does Literature have a Social Responsibility? Literature, Engagement & Propaganda; Writers and Public Issues. I can think of such topics for summer school and other outings. If I were in the driving seat I'd invite some flotilla veterans, orphanage survivors, whistleblowers, relatives of murder victims, the long term unemployed, convicted abusers and other less predictables to share platforms with the RTE and UCD old hands. Bring on the fireworks.

by Fred Johnston Tue Jun 15, 2010 14:24

And why wouldn't the 'big names' wish to share a platform with poor lil' me, Wally? I am sure that poets and writers have managed to tackle or comment upon a variety of issues. It is always assumed that this is what I am aiming at. But it isn't. I am asking that writers pen letters to newspapers on social and political topics. This is a much more undisguised, less coded way of doing things and certainly of registering a protest; in a sense one can 'hide,' if that is not too strong a word, behind one's writing, one's art. Remember that Zola's 'J'accuse' was NOT a novel, as you know, but a published open letter in a newspaper, in the form of an essay. There is a phenomenon of taking refuge behind a work, particularly poems: 'Oh, that was a poem, I don't really believe that. the character in the poem believes that. I believed it only for the poem's sake.' And that sort of thing. Nothing in my view beats the signed published letter, where one is oneself printed raw, as it were, with no fictional creative motivations to dive behind if the flak gets thick. A good panel discussion would be very welcome but you are right, I would not be invited to it; in fact, we both could easily draw up a list of contenders for such a panel! But I think it is just possible that a debate is long overdue, and someone should take the risk and ask the less predictable people to attend.

by Wally B Tue Jun 15, 2010 03:51

I know that few Irish writers have said anything about the Palestine-Israel issue - an issue that fires much of the geopolitical tension in the Middle East, not forgetting impact of the strategic oil resources. My own view is that writers as citizens can choose to say things about public issues or they can choose to remain silent. They can also choose what issues they wish to sound off on. Roddy Doyle has backed asylum seekers. In the 1960s the regional novelist, Peadar O'Donnell (also notable for being former business manager/editor of The Bell magazine), chose to be active in the Irish campaign against the Vietnam War. (O'Donnell had a track record in republican-socialist politics during the 30s).

Other novelists and poets can speak in their literary writings about the problems of the voiceless and inarticulate, as Fred said above. I think a strong example of this would be the novelist Dermot Bolger. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermot_Bolger

Bolger has certainly tried to articulate the pain of working class city youths left behind by the national economy, in The Journey Home. His biographical novel about a west of Ireland freethingking protestant family whose members become attracted to marxism and-or the Spanish Civil War during the turbulent 30s is also a good read. Bolger, like the 19th century English novelist Dickens, lets his works speak effectively and with literary flair about social dispossession.

In passing I should mention that Patrick Kavanagh's long poem The Great Hunger (1942) spoke about the social and spiritual frustrations of farming people. Kavanagh as a citizen doesn't appear to have written letters about current issues. I don't think he backed Clann na Tamhlan or the political personalities involved in forming the first inter-party government of 1948. Paul Durcan's individualist-style poems have spoken wryly about catholicism, anti-intellectualism and cultural isolationism among other topics, and he came out in support of Mary Robinson during her presidential election campaign.

I am reluctant to say flatly that ' writers' (poet, playwright or novelist) should, because they are writers, put their names to support for causes. I know that Northern Ireland writers like Heaney chose to speak cautiously and through symbols about the conflict up to 1994 - he didn't want to side with either of the armed opposites then fighting a deadly war. I am also reluctant to say that 'writers' should write about social and political oppression. Every writer is an individual and should be free to choose his/her themes. After that it is a personal moral choice whether they go public on the issues of the day.

Some living Irish writers may, incidentally, sympathise with the state of Israel, and they may feel deeply suspicious about Hamas. Maybe Irish writers could be nudged into summer school discussions on the theme of Writers and Politics (title of one of CC O'Brien's books) or Literature of Social Engagement; though I doubt whether some of the big names would want to share a debating platform with you, Fred.

by Fred Johnston Mon Jun 14, 2010 19:15

Lots to agree with there. I was in a bookshop today and came across 'The Gulag Archipelago,' by Solzhenitsyn. I read it years ago. I thought also of Zola's ' Vérité,' which exposed the scandal of priests abusing children in 19th century France.

I sincerely wish an individual writer or literary or arts organisation would publish a letter in a newspaper (no, not online!) saying that I was mad, out of touch, a throw-back to another age, even 'how dare I' ask that writers comment on politics. But this is the catch: no one will even do that! It's as if those who have clung however spuriously to notions of being 'Lefties,' revolutionaries as a form of public image (but not as a political reality) or those who would wish to be considered as being in touch with the 'street' or, God help us, the world, yet dare not for fear of upsetting someone or wrecking a career, find themselves caught inconveniently in the net that the question opens up. It's no longer enough to say: 'I was a Socialist, a Marxist, and still am!' as the audience giggles; there are people being starved to death by Israel, so show us how much of a Believer you really are! What a dispiriting appeal that must be!

I know pretend socialists who have behaved in ways that would make any fascist blush. Yet all of these are silent when the time comes for real public action, or the crafting of a real and true public statement. What too many of our artists and writers wish for is the maintenance of a kind of walled-in private city in which they can nurture each other without interference from the outside world.

But for many, the outside world pays their pensions, their grants, their travel-bursaries. This is the kicker - artists and writers' OWE US! The outside world which they would rather asked nothing of them in return, pays through taxation so that they may live as writers and artists behind invisible walls. One is reminded of what it was like to run about as a child in the street believing one was a cowboy, a soldier, even a great football player - and how much one resented one's Mum leaning out of the window and reminding you your dinner was on the table. Worse, how much we resented her when she asked us to do something for her!

Now when our brothers and sisters are murdered and starve, how much, how utterly, we resent being asked to do something for them!

by Wally B Mon Jun 14, 2010 15:45

Real Writer above may gloat when saying that less than twenty living Irish writers, including half a dozen poets, are currently selling well at home and abroad in the English-speaking world. Those lucky enough (and good enough) to hit the best seller lists know that they come from a country (I include Northern Ireland) that has an established literary tradition that has drawn sustenance from the bilingual heritage. They know that trying to write poetry and fictional prose is an accepted trait in Irish culture. Without the social pool of writing the big names could not hope to get to where they are. Those still in obscurity are encouraged to go on because they draw inspiration from their big name role models. BTW most of the lesser knowns hold down day jobs, as teachers and other workers. They are not layabouts.

Fred Johnston's comments about literature and propaganda are noted. He has said previously that many Irish writers shy away from controversial political issues in their poems and novels. I think the legacy of late 19th century aestheticism may have something to do it; that a preoccupation with skillful and innovative language satisfies many writers and their readers. And comic writing. This wasn't always so. The fili in Gaelic Ireland were expected to have wise insight into their society and advise chieftains, and the 18th century Munster Gaelic poets wrote laments, occasionally bitter satire, on the theme of land dispossession and cultural imperialism. From the disturbed 1970s onwards, Brian Friel's plays, The Freedom of the City and Translations treated on political oppression and cultural imperialism. He also founded the Field Day group to explore aspects of culture and politics. Some writers like Roddy Doyle have supported asylum seekers. The poet Brendan Kennelly gave poetry workshops in Mountjoy Jail and encouraged prisoners to publish an anthology of poetry. He also, as a nonpolitical humanitarian, did a lot during his tenure at Trinity College to encourage the poetry writing of disabled writers like Davoren Hanna and Christy Nolan. Irish writers have published amusing collectively-written novels to fundraise for Amnesty International.

I'd agree that artists and writers can, as concerned citizens, add their voices to those campaigning on justice, conservation and other issues . Irish literature did produce a biting satirist like Jonathan Swift ( A Modest Proposal) in the 18th century, but Irish literature since Joyce's Ulysses (1922) hasn't produced anything remotely resembling J'accuse by Zola.

by Fred Johnston Mon Jun 14, 2010 13:54

Wally B. raises a very good point and one worth examining, viz. the separation between the 'writer' and the individual - whom the writer also is - living in society. This is not being debated, for example, and should be. It occurs to me that (1) creative writing such as poetry and novels directly aimed at proving a point can, unless skilfully composed, err on the side of propaganda, or at least run the risk of doing so, and (2) writers, novelists, poets and playwrights represent elements in society who cannot speak for themselves or who cannot articulate in a public way their own view of the world; and therein lies the responsibility. Writers, poets and playwrights should be prepared to write and sign letters and make public statements and in fact have a duty as public figures to do so. They have no obligation to turn their creative work into propaganda. Obviously if they wish to do so, fair enough. But when one witnesses national and international crises and not a letter in any newspaper from a writer or a poet expressing any sort of view, one wonders how these same people who crave audiences and reviews and articles and public acclaim for their work, can ask for it when they so readily fall into silence when their opinions are called for.

by Real Writer. Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:55

"A dozen or so contemporary Irish novelists are being read in the English-speaking world. Half a dozen living Irish poets............"

Less than twenty.

More people are engaged in sweeping the streets of Galway than that pathetic number.

by Wally B Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:45

Nobody reads the 'drivel' published by many poets and novelists? If published book sales are anything to go by, then a dozen or so contemporary Irish novelists are being read in the English-speaking world. Half a dozen living Irish poets get sold and widely reviewed in the UK and North America. Dunno about all the rest - I am aware that some poetry titles may have print runs of 300 copies. Maybe you're referring to them?

I think one may criticise the non-politics of published writers, but consider that the literary worth of their poetry or prose should be judged apart from their political or nonpolitical stances as citizens i.e. according to literary standards.

I am asking that poets and novelists - generally called ' writers' - be considered as leading two kinds of lives: the life of writing (a hard lonely and poorly rewarded grind at times) and the life of living in society. An engineer works as an engineer; sometimes an engineer may sound off publicly on political issues of the day, which doesn't make him/her a better or lesser engineer. The same goes for teachers, postal workers, nurses or housewives.

I don't think a poet or novelist necessarily has a deeper insight into political issues than any other professional.

by Real Writer. Mon Jun 14, 2010 09:47

Everybody who contributes to Indymedia is a "writer".

The narrow specialists in the "Literary Establishment" have a different version of what constitutes a "writer".

Writers are "them" and "them" alone.

And almost nobody reads their drivel.

by Fred Johnston Mon Jun 14, 2010 01:14

Guess now that we're all a million miles off the original point, the question as to why Irish writer's don't involved themselves with politics will never be asked or answered.

by opus gluteus Mon Jun 14, 2010 00:06

Without the American Marshall Plan Dublin might now be festooned with images of Comrade Stalin.

This sentence hurts my brain. Would the progenitor of such embarrassing inanities please cease and desist., for his own sake if not for the sake of others. His utter lack of anything approaching a clue is almost palpable. I am reduced to literally cringing on his behalf, just to have to view the products of his reasoning in an otherwise interesting comment thread

by American Sun Jun 13, 2010 20:01

The Marshall plan was in the selfish interest of us Americans.
Europe was ruined.

The Red army could easily have pushed westwards to Mizen Head and Slyne Head.

Without the American Marshall Plan Dublin might now be festooned with images of Comrade Stalin.

Americans do not care much about Europe.

But Americans know who to fight.
.

by Historian Sat Jun 12, 2010 18:13

If it's so important to you to insist on such a minor inconsequential point, which has little to do with the matters under discussion, then I have no problem agreeing. Although your need to insist that it is utmost importance seems a little parochial to be honest. Almost as if you were wearing a star&stripes T-shirt and constantly chanting 'USA! USA! USA!' for no reason other than that you can.

by American. Sat Jun 12, 2010 17:41

"The economic and financial strength of the Germans in the post-war period was as such the result of German ingenuity and sheer hard work as it was of any influx of US capital."

It was the Americans who made the choice.
Reduce Germany to serfdom..

Or:

Use the impoverished Germans as a bulwark against the Nascent Superpower called the USSR.

by Historian Sat Jun 12, 2010 17:03

you are confusing your wars - I am talking about the aftermath of WW1 not WW2

and the Marshall plan was enacted only for one half, West Germany - the other half was handed to the Soviets by the 'allies' at the Potsdam conference - the Marshall plan was used to create what the allies considered to be a bulwark against communism. It was not done from any sense of altruism on the part of the US. Indeed right up until the last minute they were considering the exact opposite - known as the Morgenthau plan which would have involved complete and rapid de-industrialisation of West Germany. This would have created further untold economic and social destruction of an already decimated German society.

Many have speculated the Morgenthau was motivated mainly by revenge when he produced his plan. The Allied victors eventually rejected Morgenthau's destructive plans, reasoning that such vindictiveness in the post-WW1-era had resulted in creating the socio-economic circumstances which resulted in Hitler and the Nazi rise to power, and that it was better not to repeat that same mistake.

Thanks to the American Martial Plan Germany was the richest country in Europe in 1955.

The economic and financial strength of the Germans in the post-war period was as such the result of German ingenuity and sheer hard work as it was of any influx of US capital - though admittedly such rapid rate of regeneration would not have occurred were it not for the initial impetus of the Marshall Plan. That said, life for the average German in the post-war period was by no means a bed-of-roses - before and during the regeneration there was much poverty and, for a numbers of years, wide-spread malnutrition and in some cases even starvation

by Fred Johnston Sat Jun 12, 2010 16:22

I think we've strayed significantly off the point, folks. It still strikes me as curious indeed that Irish writers' organisations and the greater majority of Irish writers have not had a word to say publicly, with the exceptions of Richard Tillinghast and Dave Lordan, about the atrocities committed by the IDF on the relief flotilla. An examination of the whys and wherefores of this might lead us to an understanding of why, for example, writers here do not protest about political corruption at home or failure of government. Apart from the suggestion, valid in my view, that some writers either have visited Israel to participate in events or would be willing to do so, there is a fear of offending the conservative cultural structures and ethos of Ireland itself, where protest in art is usually acceptable only when it is comedic.

by American. Sat Jun 12, 2010 15:47

"3 million Germans died in WW1 - it happened. Afterwards the country was economically ruined by the greed of the victors of WW1."

More than three Germans died.

Six million German deaths would be a better guess

Thanks to the American Martial Plan Germany was the richest country in Europe in 1955.

Just 10 years.

American money resurrected Germany.

by Historian Sat Jun 12, 2010 15:18

The Jews think that everybody wants to kill them.


The Germans thought that the Jews were out to get them

They have good reason

The Germans too thought that they had good reason


It happened.

3 million Germans died in WW1 - it happened. Afterwards the country was economically ruined by the greed of the victors of WW1.

The Germans felt that they had been forced into the war (which they kind of were) they felt that they had been betrayed by Jewish Zionists who sided with the British, French and US (which they kind of were - that's why the Balfour Declaration was considered so significant. Germans considered it a monumental betrayal because in their opinion Jewish people had been treated better in Germany than any other country in the world - they had definitely prospered economically and were generally accepted members of society.)

After the war unknown, but significant, numbers of Germans were callously starved to death as a direct result of the conditions imposed upon the Germans by the winners of WW1 and their financial backers.

None of this excuses the events under the Nazis - equally nothing in the past can excuse the actions of the Zionist regime in Israel - all you are doing is making excuses for racists and fascists.

The Israels are not the totality of Judaism BTW.

Your use of the phrase 'The Jews' in this regard is misleading, deliberately so in my opinion.

Equating 'The Jews' with the racist Zionist State puts you on the same level as both Anti-Semites and Zionists

by Philistine. Sat Jun 12, 2010 13:08

"All it takes is a skillfull enough team to harness that sense of injustice."

Good idea, But.......

The Jews think that everybody wants to kill them.

They have good reason.

It happened.
.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:39

Stop grinding your teeth. The boss will lose his confidence in you. Sloppier you are getting.

by Anti-Semanticism Sat Jun 12, 2010 00:49

ll it takes is a skillfull enough team to harness that sense of injustice and direct it onto a chosen enemy.

I agree with my good friend and colleague Opie's thoughts on this matter.

And furdermoaar: Mr Michael Martin has been utterly negligent in ignoring this `abhorrent program of Fascistic indoctrination in hate-therapy as practised by the Zionist regime in Tel Aviv. Until Mr Michael Martin takes a principled stand, in the name of the peace-loving people of Ireland, of which he is an elected representative, against this reprehensible practice of forcible indoctrination in Zionist fascism, by the use of psychological-traumatization techniques, the situation can only deteriorate - wouldn't you agree, Opie??

by Anti-Semanticism Sat Jun 12, 2010 00:38

Nobody had butchered the German Nazis just before they set up the Third Reich.

O'Rly??

You might want to go back and re-examine your little history book there, Philistine. Last time I checked nearly 3 million Germans had been slaughtered not too long before Nazis formed themselves into a recognizable grouping. Then immediately after the physical human slaughter they were economically slaughtered for another few years, during which time many more Germans died of actual real-live starvation, callously and needlessly forced upon them by outside forces.

[Israelis] still have the mentality of being butchered by others to this very day.

yes - I know all about the psychologically traumatizing foreign torture-trips the Zionist Regime in Tel Aviv forces upon it's teenage citizens. The Zionist Regime's indoctrination methods are second-to-none apparently

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 12, 2010 00:12

The nazi myth of the infectious enemy within preyed on the sense of betrayal of the demobbed troops from the trenches of the imperial collision in their great war and the versailles victor's justice that the nazis honed as opportunistically as the Zionists parasite on the Jewish peoples rightful memories of persecution.All it takes is a skillfull enough team to harness that sense of injustice and direct it onto a chosen enemy.There are differences, but there are definite parallels.for several generations the german people had been fed a sense of exclusion from the imperial feast their misbegotten leaders felt they were entitled to.

by Philistine. Fri Jun 11, 2010 23:34

You would be fairly on the mark there Anti-S.

You miss one point though.

Nobody had butchered the German Nazis just before they set up the Third Reich.

The Jews had just been butchured by the Nazis when they circled their wagons in Israel.

They still have the mentality of being butchered by others to this very day.
.

by Anti-Semanticism Fri Jun 11, 2010 22:48

Letter From ALBERT EINSTEIN 1948. Mr Einstein felt compelled to inform others that Menachim Begin was in fact a representative of a Political Party which was (this is an actual quote from Einstein's letter) "closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties." - Mr Einstein recognised that, far from being the opposite to the Nazi State, the Zionist State of Israel was in fact it's twin.

http://www.archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTh...41948

Letter From ALBERT EINSTEIN 1948, comparing Political Zionism to Nazism

by Philistine. Fri Jun 11, 2010 19:15

The literary set don't have a great record for supporting democracy in times of crisis.

Only some of them distinguished themselves in this regard during the 1930s .

In 1931 some of the best of the literary crowd in Germany wrote a book called
"One Hundred Authors against Einstein" .
(Sometimes mistranslated as "100 scientists")

Einstein's famous reply?

"Why 100 authors? If I were wrong, then one would have been enough!"

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Authors_Against_Einstein

James Joyce famously said about Hitler during the 1930s:

"Give him Europe."

That quote is from Ulick O'conner's book "The joyce we Knew".

http://books.google.ie/books?id=AjGsAAAAIAAJ&q=%22Give+...urope!%22+James+Joyce&dq=%22Give+him+Europe!%22+James+Joyce&cd=5

The Arts are not a paradigm of rational thinking at the best of times.

Literary writers write fiction after all.
.

by lazy Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:40

This formula defines both the media and their political partners for whom they regurgitate :

mushrooms+shit+dark = infantilising a population

I am sure they could sell it abroad, thus relieving many countries of the burden of worryig about such *nasty* things as thinking etc.

M+S+D = P

its highly important to buttress the status quo and other elements of paralysis , as this has led us to where we now are; watching an impotent opposition flail in an impotent Dáil , as they allowed it to happen

:-)

by Fred Johnston Wed Jun 09, 2010 19:15

Solidarity is required now more than ever.

by lazy Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:14

evidently so, there was more protest momentum amongst UK writers,
that or they are more familiar bunch than our lot of ne'er do wells.

;-)

(busy drafting letter and thinking Ma'am won't be pleased @ all )

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:13

Surprise surprise,no squeak from the well oiled wheels of Aosdana.What do you think was CJ's logic when he institutionalised his arts posse but to keep his potential enemies tied in close to the feeding hand?The 'newspapers, radio stations talk shows' are similarly safely inside the corporate tent.Our energies should be focussed on making our elected representaives fulfil their democratic responsibilities.Martin is vulnerable, he is after Cowen's chair and if the spot swings on him he could take long-term damage in his ambitions.He is happy to have the attention focussed on the Israeli embassy,while Evrony laughs all the way down the fairway,or wherever he spends his shekels.You might as well exhort Enid Blyton to action on this issue as our 'craven' academics and writers.As the man said, ...'if you are not part of the solution...you must be part of the problem.'
Besides this is the new literacy, and literature is returning, from being a parlour-game for the affluent, to its beginnings as real-time political player,as it was to former practitioners like Swift.Think samizdat come west.Just as Banksy broke the cage of the gallery, we must lose our precious approach to writers.There are multiple wave-lenghts in literature,but the crises of our times are shortening their shelf life.If 'writers' cannot compete with, and beat, the ad-men at their mindless games, then they should stick to the knitting and embroidery that provides their occupational therapy, just as our academics will stick to their careering chair-chases.

by Fred Johnston Wed Jun 09, 2010 03:23 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

I would appeal to individual writers and academics to compose their own letters calling for a cultural and academic boycott and send them to newspapers, radio stations, talk shows, TDs (if you can find one!) and Senators. Sending round a circular letter takes, with amendments, time and loses the necessary momentum. Our own government has permitted us to be slapped in the face over the issue of Mossad's use of Irish passports and the arrogant response of the Israeli ambassador to a request to appear before the Oireachtas. Australia is the latest country to exercise certain relevant economic disengagements. We, sadly, can expect nothing from our own craven government.

by Fred Johnston Wed Jun 09, 2010 03:17

I would have thought that by now individual Irish writers would have made their own public comments, but it seems this is generally not to be. Organising anything like a circular letter is difficult and takes time, which is why I would appeal to writers and writers' groups and organisations to organise and word their own and send them to newspapers,TDs, radio stations. I wrote a letter on this very subject a week or so ago which appeared in The Irish Times. For even bringing the subject up I have been villified on various forums. I would appeal to writers to get out there and send their letters to newspapers. I would appeal likewise to academics to do the same. A genuine academic and cultural boycott will send a message. We can expect nothing from our own craven government.

by lazy Tue Jun 08, 2010 22:57

I would consider that Mr Johnson may supply us with a draft letter
which could be blog-circulated so that it could be hereby amended
to suit the finicky tastes of the Irish writers.

If it is all agreed and linked through the varied blogs and other interweb facilites
then I'd sign it- if he let me.

or is only the madly famous writers he wants ??

by non-voter Tue Jun 08, 2010 21:41

I have no doubt that Irish writers do share the outrage, Fred .Joint statements like the one from the British writers take organising though .You seem to be taking an initiative on that score and I wish you well . Please keep us updated.