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offsite link Alternative Copy of site is available Thu May 25, 2023 14:38 | Ice-Saker-V6bKu3nz
Alternative site: Site was created using the downloads provided Regards Herb

offsite link The Saker blog is now frozen Tue Feb 28, 2023 23:55 | The Saker
Dear friends As I have previously announced, we are now “freezing” the blog.  We are also making archives of the blog available for free download in various formats (see below). 

offsite link What do you make of the Russia and China Partnership? Tue Feb 28, 2023 16:26 | The Saker
by Mr. Allen for the Saker blog Over the last few years, we hear leaders from both Russia and China pronouncing that they have formed a relationship where there are

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Pepe Escobar for the Saker blog A powerful feeling rhythms your skin and drums up your soul as you?re immersed in a long walk under persistent snow flurries, pinpointed by

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Public Inquiry
Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005

offsite link RTEs Sarah McInerney ? Fianna Fail supporter? Anthony

offsite link Joe Duffy is dishonest and untrustworthy Anthony

offsite link Robert Watt complaint: Time for decision by SIPO Anthony

offsite link RTE in breach of its own editorial principles Anthony

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Human Rights in Ireland
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Lockdown Skeptics

The Daily Sceptic

offsite link If Covid Vaccines Saved 20 Million Lives, Why Did so Few Unvaccinated Die in Winter 2021? Wed Jun 12, 2024 19:00 | Nick Rendell
Media figures continue to claim that Covid vaccines saved 20 million lives. But it's just modelling, says Nick Rendell ? and it's contradicted by the data, which show the unvaccinated didn't die at a greater rate.
The post If Covid Vaccines Saved 20 Million Lives, Why Did so Few Unvaccinated Die in Winter 2021? appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link It?s Not ?Advocate For?. It?s ?Advocate? Wed Jun 12, 2024 17:00 | Will Jones
It's 'advocate', not 'advocate for'. Just because an error is common, doesn't stop it being wrong. And no, you can't 'advocate against'; that's an oxymoron. Can we at least get our words right, pleads Will Jones.
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offsite link How Jacinda Ardern Left New Zealand on the Brink of Blackouts ? But Starmer Wants to Copy Her Wed Jun 12, 2024 15:30 | Will Jones
Sir Keir Starmer is standing by a pledge to ban new drilling in the North Sea, despite New Zealand abandoning a similar policy made by ex-PM Jacinda Ardern amid blackout fears.
The post How Jacinda Ardern Left New Zealand on the Brink of Blackouts ? But Starmer Wants to Copy Her appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Cochrane?s Race to the Bottom Wed Jun 12, 2024 13:26 | Dr Carl Heneghan and Dr Tom Jefferson
In 2020, the Cochrane Collaboration delayed its review of face masks and NPIs for six months while pushing out on-message rapid reviews based on low quality evidence. It still won't admit it was wrong.
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offsite link Mark Steyn Takes Ofcom to Court Saying Regulator Killed His Career Over Covid Vaccine Claims Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:10 | Will Jones
Mark Steyn, the former GB News presenter, has taken Ofcom to court accusing it of "killing his career" after he questioned Covid vaccines on air, with the regulator saying his programmes caused "harm to viewers".
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A Litany of Abuse, Abuse, Abuse – Part 1

category dublin | rights, freedoms and repression | feature author Saturday November 28, 2009 01:06author by Mark C Report this post to the editors

Report by Commission of Investigation into Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin

featured image
Cover of Part 1 of the Report

This is part one of a two part report, based on the Report by The Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin. Part One deals with the generalities of the report – a damning indictment of the church in general for its handling of the reporting of clerical child sexual abuse, its cover up, and the comlicity (or otherwise) of the Gardaí. Part Two will look at the abuse, abuse, and more abuse handed out by individuals. Prepare yourself for some pretty sickening reading.

It begins, the Report by The Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, like this: 'the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation was established to report on the handling by Church and State authorities of a representative sample of allegations and suspicions of child sexual abuse against clerics'.

By page two, matters have gotten very serious indeed, as we are told that complaints were received about 172 named priests and 11 unnamed (though these may be part of the 172). One of these priests admitted to abusing over 100 children, whilst another admitted to abusing on 'a fortnightly basis' over 25 years. In total, there were over 70 complaints made against these two priests alone – and, remember, we're still only on page 2.

On page three, the report states that it 'examined' 320 complaints against 46 priests as a 'representative sample'. One wonders wonder what would a full disclosure include. (It is important to note, that at least one priest – Fr Ricardus – was falsely accused.)

And so the report goes on, through a number of headings, becoming more and more harrowing as each paragraph is read. Allow me to present my own representative sample.

The Archdiocese and Church authorities
The report could not be more clear on the failures of the Archdiocese and the church authorities: “The Dublin Archdiocese‟s pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets. All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities.” But did they really know what was going on?

Knowledge of Clerical Child Sexual Abuse
The report tells us that those men dealing with the complaints were all “very well educated”, many with degrees in canon law and some with degrees in civil law. That they might plead ignorance of the law, the authors “find very hard to accept”. It is claimed: “All the Archbishops of Dublin in the period covered by the Commission were aware of some complaints. This is true of many of the auxiliary bishops also. At the time the Archdiocese took out insurance in 1987, Archbishop Kevin McNamara, Archbishop Dermot Ryan and Archbishop John Charles McQuaid had had, between them, available information on complaints against at least 17 priests operating under the aegis of the Dublin Archdiocese. The taking out of insurance was an act proving knowledge of child sexual abuse as a potential major cost to the Archdiocese.”

Responsibility for Clerical Child Sexual Abuse
There have been calls for the resignations of Bishops over this report, but it must be remembered that “Priests who abuse children are directly responsible for their actions. That responsibility cannot be transferred to their bishops or the heads of their orders or societies”, as the report states. However, the report also says that the church authorities have a duty of “ensuring that offending priests are not protected from the normal processes of the civil law”.

Cover Up
That there was a cover up is without doubt, with the church trying to ensure that “as few people as possible” knew. “There was little or no concern for the welfare of the abused child or for the welfare of other children who might come into contact with the priest. Complainants were often met with denial, arrogance and cover-up and with incompetence and incomprehension in some cases.”

Contact between the Abusers
There was no evidence discovered of a paedophile ring in the Archdiocese. “However, as can be seen from the chapters on the 46 priests, there were some worrying connections. Fr Carney and Fr McCarthy abused children during their visits to children‟s homes. They also brought children on holidays and shared accommodation with two separate complainants. A boy who was initially abused by Fr McCarthy was subsequently abused by Fr Carney. Fr Carney abused children at swimming pools and was sometimes accompanied to swimming pools by Fr Maguire.” So, whilst there was not a “ring” there was certainly duplicity, it would seem, and networking.

State Authorities: The Gardaí
The reports remarks that there were “a number of inappropriate” contacts between the Gardaí and the church authorities. The handling of one particular case being deemed “totally inappropriate”. On top of that “A number of very senior members of the Gardaí, including the Commissioner in 1960, clearly regarded priests as being outside their remit. There are some examples of Gardaí actually reporting complaints to the Archdiocese instead of investigating them. It is fortunate that some junior members of the force did not take the same view.” One hopes that our young Gardaí of today are as moral.

The Complainants
The bravery and pain of those who came forward is, rightly, paid tribute to: “The Commission would like to pay special tribute to the complainants who gave evidence before the Commission. Reliving their experiences was extremely painful, and the Commission was left in no doubt about the devastating effect child sexual abuse can have not just on victims but also on their families of origin and the families they create subsequently. Their evidence was also instrumental in helping the Commission to properly examine the catalogue of secrecy, cover-up and inaction which the Church authorities indulged in during the vast majority of the period covered by this investigation.”

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author by lulupublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 14:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In hiding all these shameful acts, the Church has all but destroyed the Faith, & brought unwarranted disgrace on innocent priests & religious. Yet spirituality is a way to get free of the emotional débris of the past: not a facile forgiveness that pretends it's tolerable to abuse children, but a refusal to carry the blame or deep grudges for what was done.
I've known only kindness from nuns, & some good, hard-working PPs, but too many people have a very different experience of the Church; the cover-up & lies hugely exacerbated the original offences. This isn't a purely Catholic phenomenon, as 'secular' abuse of children 'in care' (hah!) went on in England, & few children even thought of complaining. To this day, in speaking about what was done to us, we feel we're confessing our own faults, & it's treated with dishonest manoeuvring by Social Services.

author by Colm O'Gorman - Amnestypublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 15:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Today’s Dublin Diocese report into allegations of clerical child abuse underlines the urgent need to put children’s rights into the Constitution. Amnesty International Ireland is calling on the Taoiseach to set a date for this referendum immediately.

“This report makes for deeply shocking reading, even after all that has gone before it,” said Colm O’Gorman, Executive Director of Amnesty International Ireland.

“Bishops in Dublin colluded with child abusers, protecting them and hiding them, enabling them to prey on the innocent. Children were deliberately sacrificed to protect the Church. Dozens of priests and members of the clergy were involved.

“But we cannot simply blame the Church. More than three years ago the Ferns Report revealed that the HSE has no powers to prevent abusers outside the family from having contact with children. Nothing has changed. While she was Minister for Education, Mary Hanafin announced that the Government has no legal responsibility for what happens to our children in our schools. Nothing has changed there either.

"Where the State fails to defend the rights of children and abdicates responsibility for their care, then abuse and exploitation are all too often the result. Our children are our responsibility, and not the responsibility of any agency that places itself above the law. Today we see the consequences not only of cover up on the part of the Catholic Church, but also of State failure to guarantee children’s rights and child protection.

“We had the Ferns report in 2005, the Ryan report in May and now this. We have more than a decade of broken promises from this Government. Unless our most fundamental law demands that we put children’s rights at the heart of the decisions we make they will remain targets for abuse and neglect.

“The Government must fulfill its commitments and deliver a referendum on children’s rights. A fitting response to the report published today would be for the Taoiseach to set a date.”

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author by Con Carrollpublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 18:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

rightly so we have a right to our anger and feelings of horrific evil.
we have also to stand and say never again.

taking a stand in demanding proper education for children
the rights of children to be taken seriously
that no child should be forced to live on the steets/
children who experience voilence have a right to justice.
no child should have to live jn alchol addiction in their lives

author by lulupublication date Sat Nov 28, 2009 09:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Any organisation with power that's unquestioned tends to corruption; on a larger scale, the State will abuse its people as much as it can get away with it, & p*** on the hard-won Constitution. Accountability is needed from all public & private bodies.

author by sorchapublication date Sat Nov 28, 2009 22:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Lulu wrote: "few children even thought of complaining. To this day, in speaking about what was done to us, we feel we're confessing our own faults"

Could everyone please try to take on board that it was the fault of the abusers and the fault of of the prelates of the church and the Gardai who covered it all up !

However, I have a few more questions the report raised in my mind .

What brainwashing went on to make children and adults think that the abuse they suffered (sexual, physical, emotional and psychological) was their fault?

Who made sure that shame was internalized by victims, families and neighbours and how was it done?

What abuse was done to the entire population when almost no one ever questioned anything?

When and how are Irish people going to rid themselves of these mental shackles?

author by sorchapublication date Sun Nov 29, 2009 00:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some more thoughts on child abuse. In the Times online Sally Brampton replies to a letter from a 16 year old girl complaining about her abusive father. Could the following points be extended from the individual to the nation?.

"It is not your fault. Please understand that. And nor is it your imagination. Physical abuse is often followed by apologies and being “nice”, because the abuser feels so guilty and ashamed, they go into denial about what actually happened.

It’s also manipulation, because it implies that you are in the wrong for not accepting an apology.

When an abuser acts reasonably, it is because they are desperately trying to reason to themselves that it was the other person’s fault, rather than their own. In other words, “it wasn’t my fault, she made me do it” — hence the way your dad hinted that you have mental problems".

"That’s the trouble with bullies. People are scared to confront them, because the consequences are so frightening, particularly if they are trapped in a house (State?) with them".

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author by Michael Larkinpublication date Mon Nov 30, 2009 08:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Catholic Church should hang its head in shame.
What a nation of cover-ups, crooks, abusers and gangsters Ireland has become. The present scandal in the Catholic Church to cover up abuse of innocent children is a mortal sin in my view. I read the novel Truth Behold by an Irish author Chris Barry during the summer and it certainly exposed what the abused victims really suffered while in care of the Religious orders. I think this novel has the makings of a film and it’s only time before a film society will pick it up.... the Catholic Church should hang its head in shame.
Michael Larkin

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 15:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Catholic Church can do what they like to their priests ,it's all pie in the sky ..Repentance hang their heads in shame tell them they will suffer the everlasting torments of hell etc . That's their business ,it's up to them. People who sufered the abuse don't really care about what the church authorities and the abusers do amongst themselves . I personally don't want or care about church justice . You can call it a mortal sin if you like Michael , tell the abusers to go to confession and give them three Hail Marys or even four . What took place in these industrial schools was a CRIME . If I went out and robbed a bank and got caught , I would be brought up in front of a judge . If I said that I was very sorry and was very ashamed that wouldn't stop me from getting locked up in prison. That's where a lot of the people who were in Artane ended up in prison . We want to see these people treated as criminals not as sinners .In 1954 my brother Micky at the age of twelve was beaten up by a grown man , a Christian Brother .His arm was broken ,his head busted open ,he was left two and a half days locked in a shed and my parents were not told. To this day the name of the Christian Brother who did it has not been made public . The church authorities had all the files , so they know the name of this CRIMINAL but refuse to disclose it. .

author by Muruchupublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 16:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I remember hearing stories when I was younger in the late eighties early nineties about the power that the church had over society in Ireland. I also remember how tough and resilient the older people in my community appeared to me , it baffles me how a race of people so renowned for their hatred of injustice could be so afraid of the wrath of the church that they couldn't physically stop these people from molesting kids!! Is it a case of the dog beaten so much that he bows his head expecting another slap everytime someone approaches him?. I think we're facing our shadow here , we have a weakness when it comes to covering shameful acts to preserve an outward appearance of piety. But to stand by when children were being abused and sometimes murdered is inexcusable. This is an opportunity to exorcise the demons that we have , everything has a root cause.
Why did these men abuse these children? Was it too much power? Were they molested themselves? Why did such otherwise strong people turn a blind eye to the problem? I see a lot of the behaviour during the 'Boom' as an attempt to compensate for our inner shortcomings as if the flashy car and garrish three storey house would somehow cleanse us of our dark secrets. I think we have this collective illusion that if we project an outward appearance of wealth and success to the world that we can sweep the dirt under the carpet. I'm sorry to say the problems are still there and we're far from fine , sexually , mentally and emotionally.

author by annepublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 17:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For Kevin - so sorry to hear about your brother's ordeal and inability to obtain redress. I don't want to rub salt into our wounds but we need to ask if a boxing coach can be sentenced, why can't a cleric and those who aided and abetted the cleric?

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author by Fred Johnstonpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 20:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sickeningly, yet somehow predictably, Brian Cowen has rushed to defend the Vatican.

According to the RTE news website this evening, "The Taoiseach has defended the Vatican's dealings with the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, saying its approach was consistent with normal diplomatic procedures. Brian Cowen said he believes the Holy See acted in 'good faith' in its dealings with the Commission, even if the best outcome was not achieved. . . . . He said it was not unreasonable to assume that the Vatican would have been prepared to respond to requests for information through the proper channels. . . . On the failure of the Papal Nuncio to respond to requests for information, the Taoiseach said it was 'regrettable' that this gave the impression of non-cooperation."

Cowen's rustic terror of the Vatican and of the Catholic Church in general is palpable and harks back to the days when the appalling Archbishop McQuaid could destroy Noel Browne's political career. In the face of all the evidence that the Vatican and the Papal Nuncio, who should rightly be expelled from the country for his brazen refusal even to reply to relevant inquiries, turned their backs on the children of Ireland, the leader of our country bows yet again with his forehead to the ground and caves in.

Despicable doesn't cover it. Fianna Fáil MUST go. How can they be relied upon to manage any investigation of the church to which they bow and scrape? How can they be trusted?The culture of FF is rooted in unquestioning, church-compliant rural mores, the same mores that turned blind eyes and deaf ears to what was going on as Irish children had their lives ruined at the hands of men who disgraced their church and yet could dispense 'forgiveness' in a darkened confessional to poor girls afraid of getting pregnant through kissing. Can anyone doubt that this socio-political culture of the beaten Irish peasant contributed to the human destruction going on all over the country?

How can anyone vote for such hollow politicians? 'Good faith' crows Cowen, 'impression of non-cooperation;' even as the hardiest of apologists for the Catholic Church turns his head away in shame. What a truly little man.

author by Kevin Higginspublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 20:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"harks back to the days when the appalling Archbishop McQuaid could destroy Noel Browne's political career" The main reason McQuaid and co could destroy Noel Browne and sink the Mother and Child Scheme in the way they did was because his partners in the 1948-51 Inter-party coalition, Fine Gael, Labour (then led by William Norton) and Browne's own party leader, Sean McBride all collapsed under the pressure. There is no excuse for the way they behaved, and the cross party silence about these issues was the problem.

Fine Gael were no better on these issues. And the Labour Party of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 1980s bears a huge responsibility for failing to take these issues up.

Fianna Fail deserve to be hung out to dry for their role in this. But Fine Gael and Labour and dear old Sean McBride colaborated by offering nothing but decades of silence and cross party agreement that the church were untouchable.

author by Blazes Boylanpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 21:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Aren't we all assuming a rather high level of sophistication and decency that has rarely been found on this island?

If you buy the line that saying the rosary enough times is going to get you into heaven, or cure auntie Maggie's cancer, and thus effectively allowing little old you to put one over on "God" (who created the whole universe), then you will be in for a big surprise sooner or later.

If your surprise takes the form of your child being abused by a priest, whose life is devoted to serving that "God", it's likely that you are missing the Big Picture.

Where an organisation has for decades shielded dozens of child abusers who have abused hundreds of Irish children, and the government doesn't move to close it down, and prosecute all those involved, you might also be surprised. But not if you live in Ireland.

author by iosafpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 21:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

First of all thanks to Mark for this article which is excellently written & I look forward to the next installment.

One thing which has struck me from afar (living as I do & have done for a decade in Catalonia) is how Irish media has limited this scandal to the shores of the island & even more - to the parameters of the Eire state. We have seen some remarkably small evidence that collusion and complicity were at work amongst the paedophiles which hints at a a ring . However, we have not seen much exploration of how the RC church moved its troublesome employees out of jurisdictions, across borders and often across continents to not only evade investigation, capture or embarassment but also to ensure that non-rehabilitated sex criminals were allowed (& often facilitated) in the continuation of their predation elsewhere.

I am aware of one case of a New Zealander priest who when found molesting in New Zealand was offered a get out package by which he was housed by his religious order in Ireland for the few years it would take him to adjust to life as an ex-priest rather than X-priest. I am aware that his case nor the countless thus far undocumented or investigated by nation-state jurisdictions fell under the remit of the inquiry with which this article is concerned. But I do know that after spending several years housed and fed by a religious order in Dublin during which the man was not discouraged from contact with minors (& tellingly did so in the plain-clothes garb and beneath the glib sophistry of liberation theology & outreach) the man was finally released from his vows as an ordained RC priest.

He moved to London and sought employment in psychotherapy, no doubt in part thanks to the references provided by his former religious order and the Roman Catholic church, he found a job counselling children ( of both the generally squally panicking kind and the yet more vunerable abandoned or quasi-orphaned illegal migrant kind) at Heathrow airport.

It only took him six months to get arrested & he is still serving his prison term for raping children in his care.

We can look at his case and wonder at the wickedness of predation & ponder the difficult question of how we prevent it & to what extent we can suspend the human rights of paedophile abusers in order to protect potential victims through chemical castration, naming, restriction orders etc...

Or we could stop being bleeding heart liberals and simply wonder why the Roman Catholic church doesn't dispose of its trash in a better way?


I leave no name with this comment because I don't feel I have to. I remember when big swinging Mickey Mc Dowell of law reform fked up his child protection laws and almost let out the paedophiles from prison in 2006

I remember that one individual involved had been convicted on more than 60 counts of child rape
+ He was a priest
+ He was never asked to renounce orders
+ He was never put in plain clothes
+ he never acted the trendy and talked up liberation theology or folk masses amongst the poor of dublin's slums.


He just got a letter instead of a name...............................just like his victims

& more than that.......................

He got moved out of the Eire state jurisdiction.

Oh well, considering how many Nazis the RC church got out of Europe in the 1940's it's hardly surprising they guaranteed & guarantee their Irish nonces somewhere else...............& more to my point........................brought other nonces into Ireland.

the light is on for you.....................shame the devil & confess.
the light is on for you.....................shame the devil & confess.

author by PaedofinderGeneralpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 23:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

stop tiptoeing around these child molesters and facilitators and feck them into prison. There is no afterlife, only this one. I for one want to see them treated like the common criminals they are and to face real tangible justice in this life.

Also they should pay compensation. Real hard cash. And people who were victims and are now taxpayers should not have to help pay for the compensation costs of the people who molested them. What kind of twisted irony is that?

The "holy orders" are cynically squirrelling away their hard assets into trusts to try and protect them from victims of their wide scale crimes of paedophilia abuse and facilitation as they tried to do in canada. That should be stopped also. It is quite clear that they knowingly negotiated a limiting clause for compensation so that should be annulled. As an innocent citizen, I did nothing to anyone's kids nor was I complicit in such abhorrent actions so why should I have to pay anything to cover the asses of these criminal perverts.

These orders have lost all moral authority to be having anything to do with children on this isle ever again. They should relinquish all control over primary schools and hand them over to the state to be run as secular schools as compensation for their evil doings.and abuse of position.

If I had my way, I'd set the Paedofinder general on them all (see link) :-)

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author by Brian O' Sullivanpublication date Wed Dec 02, 2009 09:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Blatant Wrongdoings

I read the novel Truth Behold by Chris Barry, a great book that tells the facts as they were. The Catholic Church will never be brought to answer for their horrific crimes in the courts of our land; they are a law onto themselves. I was once a churchgoer but now my eyes have been opened to the blatant wrongdoings of the Catholic Church. There were no mistakes in the church but blatant wrong doings and that is simply how it was, that is how it is and that is how it will always be!

Brian O' Sullivan

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Wed Dec 02, 2009 09:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

anne thanks for your response its not the people to be sorry the church and goverment are the ones they are the ones as for redress for me from day one it has been about justice and thats whaT WE HAVETOfight for justice for all

author by lulupublication date Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That we should not initiate 'knee-jerk' hostility to priests & religious because of the gross sins & lies of others of the cloth, which would be another injustice; the innocent members of the Church are also betrayed by the bad apples & filthy, rotten liars.

author by PaedofinderGeneralpublication date Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm surprised any decent member of the clergy would actually want to stay in an organisation so rotten as the catholic church has shown itself to be. Wouldn't they be better off having a direct relationship with their god than having dealings with and helping to create revenue for evil men who colluded in the systematic rape and abuse of children such as those that exist in the catholic hierarchy.

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author by lulupublication date Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well, the priests I know feel a duty to their parish & the wider world, besides their vows. Each person has to make individual choices.
To make a lame comparison, many charities or voluntary organisations are corporate money-suckers & may have some dodgy staff, but are all that exists for their 'clients'. English Social Services, among other organisations, hid some horrors.We mustn't start a general witch-hunt on the basis of some very rotten apples, or we risk injustice & flawed perception.

author by A McCabepublication date Sat Dec 05, 2009 15:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ireland is deeply corrupt, will we all leave? No one ought have power over our lives to the degree they can get away with anything and keep their jobs and retire on a fat pension, politicians, gards, bishops or lawyers

author by Fred Johnstonpublication date Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We can be absolutely sure of one thing; rogue bankers, rogue developers, rogue bishops - NONE of these will ever be brought to account in this country. Now repeat that over and over until it registers. They are all three still considered by certain elements to be the mainstay of a 'stable' Irish society. And certainly in some political quarters, survival depended on their patronage. Generations will have to pass away before we begin to understand the nature of justice and individual freedom; the nature of where the individual stands on morals, ethics in public life and so on.

Remember that Maynooth is throwing a Professorship at Bertie Ahern, a gent who still has a question or two to answer regarding his Sterling deposits, and whom some are shamelessly pitching at the Mayoralty of the City of Dublin. The notion of 'reservation' is not merely a mediaeval ruse used by fidgeting bishops. One wonders how often our tribunals were treated to variations on the 'reservation' theme from the witness box over the decades.

The change needed to make us a moral country in any sense will not come with the generation now in power, who have been raised in a society where even the religious had an argument for not telling the truth. Ordinary people need to be told, in village and housing estate, the extent to which moral corruption in politics as well as in the church has damaged and effected them; in their way of seeing the world, in their power or lack of it in their own society. Even in the Arts, wink-and-nod and 'reservation' is the norm in administration and anywhere where grabs for power are the motive.

What we need is some way of re-educating people in the duties of citizenship; to teach them to protest, to ask questions, to employ the Freedom of Information Act in dealing with local as well as national government. Let's revisit the methods of the United Irishmen and start local reading and political discussion groups; in shops, on the factory floor at lunchtimes, in local halls once a week. People need to know that rogue politicians, 'Three Monkeys' religious leaders and bankers are subject to the ordinary worker, the people, that the man in the street has a duty to see that they are brought to justice. Forget poetry readings: let's have political readings and lectures on civic duty.

author by Annepublication date Sun Dec 06, 2009 21:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fully agree with Fred's suggestion "Let's revisit the methods of the United Irishmen and start local reading and political discussion groups; in shops, on the factory floor at lunchtimes, in local halls once a week. People need to know that rogue politicians, 'Three Monkeys' religious leaders and bankers are subject to the ordinary worker, the people, that the man in the street has a duty to see that they are brought to justice. Forget poetry readings: let's have political readings and lectures on civic duty."

Would also like to ask whether there is no way the Catholic Church can be held accountable? As stated on another thread Ireland is not the only country whose children have been abused by the clergy of the Catholic Church. Surely a hierarchial/govermental system that has become so corrupted as to be guilty of putting children at risk in countries around the world must be held accountable. Would a pandemic of child abuse like this justify charges being brought against the Vatican State, which is a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child?. Would any lawyer that is reading think it is is worth looking into and explainng why it can/cannot be done?

author by Fred Johnstonpublication date Mon Dec 07, 2009 14:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It strikes me that (a) a thorough examination of named priest and accusations followed by (b) files to the DPP followed by (c) trials would be sufficient, as it would be in pursuance of any other form of criminality. But this requires political will. Cowen has already demonstrated that he has no such will too tackle the Catholic Church.

author by Robert Mpublication date Wed Dec 09, 2009 16:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a man who was once proud to be rc and irish these so-called followers of christ turned me off faith, and for people to imply that being rc must go hand in hand with irish nationality is more than an insult. My family and friends have been deeply affected by what has happened.
The vatican knew many years that these crimes were going on and almost if not all bishops also.
This wicked organization does not represent me as an irishman or a christian and should not be called 'the church' any longer but a religious entity!
Who is worse the one who abused or the one who knew and said nothing?? ask me as a victim or any other victim. You know the answer. Time now for this island to get up and busy in seeing this to the end!! we are waking up but need to do more, much more to punish this evil religious entity.
Thank you,
Robert m

author by Andrewpublication date Fri Jan 22, 2010 18:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

CHILD SEXUAL abuse was covered up by the Dublin archdiocese and other church authorities for almost 30 years, according to the report of the commission of investigation. State authorities facilitated this cover-up by not fulfilling their responsibilities to ensure that the law was applied equally to all, and by allowing church institutions to be beyond the law, it says.

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author by Andrewpublication date Sun Aug 01, 2010 18:00author email theknitter at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Still no bishop, ex-bishop, archbishop or cardinal has been questioned about the cover-up and facilitation of child rape.

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sun Aug 01, 2010 20:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

To Robert M, above.

You suggest the the Roman Catholic institution no longer be called 'the church', but rather 'a religious entity'.
I, who was also indoctrinated into their certitudes, will continue to refer to it as a mega-cult.
Bring on the theologians.

author by Atheistpublication date Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We atheists always call them the church Opus.

Those propagandists of crass superstition were ever thus.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Aug 02, 2010 13:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But I think the title 'the church' bestows an unwarranted elevation and even confirms the legitimacy for the inculcated..
By calling them cults I feel it better exposes the nature of the superstition to critical reassessment, leveling their self-serving appropriation of the term 'cult' to designate competing sects of 'heretics'. I have no problem with people having odd convictions, it goes with the territory. Its those vulnerable to evangelisation I would be trying to flag the reality(as I subjectively assess it) of psychological predation to.
Religious belief can be useful as an introduction to ethical behaviour and has a mixed history as means of socialising the young and naturally feral hominids.
Its usually only when it becomes totalitarian and monopolistic it becomes toxic. Atheism can also degenerate into portentious conviction of the superiority of one's opinions just because we've seen through some of the delusions of others. I prefer the agnostic response, that there is no way to know, to the atheistic conviction of self-organising random chaos. It just hits my head as another verbal evasion of our fallibility in the face of such abstract speculative excercises. I doubt it will engage the imaginations of the religiously inclined, and suspect it is more likely to entrench them in their clutchings at comforting rituals.A sterile excerise in face of the real problems confronting our evolving understanding, and pending dilemmas.

author by Crazy Catpublication date Thu Dec 01, 2016 08:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A very moving and thoughtful article found on the Irish times:

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