Youth Defence to Organise in UCD

by Spanner Wed Apr 09, 2008 17:38

Is that really something to get so worked up about? Just how insecure do you have to be to be threatened by an opposing view being expressed?

Incidentally, "Anti-fascist activists" may have torn down posters advertising the film, but posting the details on here has given broader coverage to a local college film showing. It almost makes me wonder whether it was a protester or a promoter who filed this story.

by Don Wed Apr 09, 2008 18:42

Last I heard YD are not a fascist group. Further more, whats wrong with them showing a film? The e-mail I was sent about was from the Newman Society.

by Al Wed Apr 09, 2008 18:43

To each their own, everyone is entitled to a view and you dont have to go watch the film. I think its a freedom of speech issue both sides should be able to put their point.

by Mis-informed Wed Apr 09, 2008 19:26

Its an opportunity for pro-choice to leaflet on rogue agencies, abortion legislation.
legislation for 'X" and to look at the use of image and propaganda in the highly
organised 'Life' movement, (which has at it's tell-tale heart a deep fear and dis-respect
of issues of privacy).

or ignore them...

by ajh - ISN Wed Apr 09, 2008 19:28

I've heard the event has been cancelled

by Ceann Wed Apr 09, 2008 20:17

Anti-fascist campaigners tear down posters from non-fascist opposing view on abortion. Who's the real fascists?

This is a good example of how the labelling of something as fascist to shut it up is a dangerous game when the definition of fascism expands to previously (and most likely currently) non-fascist groups.

Sometimes Anti-fascist campaginers need to put up their own posters and tear them striaght back down themselves in my opinion.

by free Thu Apr 10, 2008 00:20

To outshout yer opponents? To scream yer head off at those who are deaf and dumb? To rave against the world? To eff and blind against perceived walls of blank disdain? To discourse? To enquire? To ask socratic questions? To ponder the mysteries of the universe? To try to understand the opinions and feelings of others? To ask: what have I missed? To ask: what are we all missing? To ask: what is reality? To ask: was ist der Mensch? To enquire into the nature of truth and untruth? To read An Essay on Human Understanding? To analyse, query, clarify and decide? To seek out the likeminded for mutual cooperation? To engage critically with the differentminded and seek points of common ground? Was ist die Freiheit? Que veut dire etre libre? Ce'n ciall leis an domhain?

If we stop asking questions we have stopped thinking.

by respectful Thu Apr 10, 2008 02:26

Here's what a European thinker said about respecting others.

I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them.

—Baruch Spinoza

by Tim Thu Apr 10, 2008 09:01

They are not infavour of abortion on demand, they believe abortion should be allowed if there is a genuine threat to the life of the mother, they believe that there should be no restriction on abortion information and they also believe that a woman should be free to travel to another juristiction to have an abortion if she so wishes.

by MY BODY Thu Apr 10, 2008 09:53

Yes that what the Law is in Ireland at the moment and maybe that's what the people think. But excuse me if I get angry that other people have a say about and try to control my body and deny me the complete freedom to choose. Thats what it's about I want abortion on demand in Ireland so that means a referendum change. If that happens I'll be happy but still pissed out that other people would then allow me to exercise control over my body. MY BODY MY CHOICE!!!

by Jo Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:36

From the intro. YD sound like a very dedicated, fearless group who are willing to make real sacrifices for their beliefs. Great to see when so many youth are like zombies on the corporate treadmill of points and pointless careers.

by Observer Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:58

Excellent piece in the Guardian Tuesday about how the left has adopted the amoralism of the libertarian right in the absence of any actual belief in changing the way society is organised. You ought to read it. Very ironic that leftists now espouse the extreme individualistic "I can do whatever I want" attitude that is the epitome of capitalist anomie.

by well whose body is it? Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:16

a lot of old farts in the Dail who never had a period in their life organising women's health
services?

Thats ridiculous.

The most vocal group on the issue of Choice- are not leftists- they are activist,

please read the Choice Ireland Founding Documents.

http://www.choiceireland.blogspot.com

as to YD- they are bank-rolled and tied into groups that are paid for by the establishment.
They are provocative and possibly mind-washed. They have male spokespersons on
women's issues and generally are well washed middle class who are more interested
in preserving the status quo through control .

At my first Choice meeting I heard the words: 'Any and all Political groups are welcome,
but we do not advocate a political agenda' (remember that, now , before ye start reducing
the argument to he said- she said, ignorance and simplicity)

by Old timer Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:53

23rd October 1992 - The Democratic Left picket of the Youth Defence offices

This picket was organised by Democratic Left Youth and was in response to pickets that youth defence were holding outside the Well Woman Centre.

6th July 1994 - Youth Defence held a counter picket to the DAIC demo- the gardai did not intercept the hurleys that Youth defence brought along in a van - YD members used the hurleys in broad daylight to attack pro choice activists. When Gardai finally arrived from Pearse Street they arrested a socialist pro choice campaigner and left Youth Defence alone.

by Old timer Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:58

There are plenty of other incidents where YD members violently attacked peaceful pro choice campaigners including in September 1997 in UCD during Freshers week where they physically assualted a member of the Socialist Party. Given their use of violence, the exposition of their facist tendencies by an undercover Hot Press investigation in the 90's and the proven links between Justin Barrett (one of their key members) and facist organisations around Europe, it is reasonable to question their right to organise events in UCD.

by Bemused Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:46

Q: is the prevalent youth philosophy of hedonism left or right?
A: It's both.

As a studious woman on that funny thread about the Austrian village of Fucking has noted, there are numerous slang words to express the old human custom of coition. 'Love' rarely enters into the equation nowadays after hip discos and parties. One reason there are several unwanted pregnancies among teens and twentysomethings.

by observer Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:54

Well by your logic given that the "anti fascists" involved were almost certainly members of one or other grouping claiming to be Marxist THEIR right to organise could be questioned on the basis that they are adherents of an ideology responsible for the deaths of millions.

And just to be clear I do not advocate preventing such groups organising themselves or engaging in public activities as is their right in a democracy. By the same token they should respect others right to do the same.

by anti-facist Thu Apr 10, 2008 14:22

YD are not a political group. they are corporate financed youth lobby of a well organised and structured
life movement. They are generally run by young men and generally tend to be more interested in the
preservation of the status quo which means they advocate a deeply biased and anti-woman approach
in their literature and image.

They refuse to politically engage and instead use their bibles and PR mechanisms to manipulate
the issues.

If they are a registered charity or political organisation then their books, accounts and MO should be
available for inspection as it is with all registered societies and groups.

SPUC and other orgs such as IONA institute should be available to the same set of scrutinies
as everyone else.

The founding docs of choice ireland and their aims are clearly and honestly published on this
newswire and at: http://www.choieireland.blogspot.com

by s Thu Apr 10, 2008 14:41

Anti-fascist is right, YD is mostly run by young men who have no interest women’s rights and health and exist to tell lies and force their anti-choice propaganda down everyone else’s throats – of course none of these young men will ever be pregnant.
They aren’t a charity as there is no proper registration system of charities in Ireland, however they can have ‘charitable status’ declared by the Revenue granting them certain tax exemptions which I have no doubt they have availed of. They present themselves as a charity and as such they should adhere to the standards of one.

by Mary O'F Thu Apr 10, 2008 15:05

The 'Ultrasound' Youth Defence things tonight is not going ahead.

What happened seems to be that the Newman society (christian society)
asked Filmsoc to host a film for them which they said O.K. to. As far as I know it's
a tame enough film about someone struggling with the decision to have an abortion.
It was to be followed after by a discussion.

As seeon as Film Soc heard who it actaully was they cancelled it.

The UCD services have been informed and will more then likely be delighted taht it's cancelled as
two years ago they had a big headache when they tried to organise out there.

So as far as I know it is not going ahead. That's not to say that a load of YD supporters may still be under the impression
it is going ahead and turn up to have a meeting anyways.

So all we can do realy is if anyone is out in UCD tonight to keep an eye out and let people know what's going on.

by mememe Thu Apr 10, 2008 16:12

sorry i dont understand - youre getting all riled up over what you're calling a "Tame old film"?, wanting events to be cancelled, people turfed out, legititmate societies hounded??? and yd are the facists?!!!
what harm can a tame old film do? are you really that afraid of letting people make up their own mind on this issue? or are you afraid that people might make up their own mind about ultrasound - that if they actually are allowed to have an event on campus it might debunk all the myths that you've posted about them up here. cos i believe the last thing they got cancelled was a speech by a disabled woman - and im sorry, but a film showing and a speech by a disabled woman doesnt really seem consistent with your portrayal of hurley wielding huns! all your "incidents" are worn out old myths from the 90s for Gods sake, its 2008 now lads, if you want them to be "milder" in their approach then maybe you should support mild events like this - seems more like you have an agenda to shut them up regardless.

by ffs Thu Apr 10, 2008 17:47

anti fascist wrote :" They refuse to politically engage and instead use their bibles and PR mechanisms to manipulate the issues."

Just for the record anytime ive run into one of their stalls in Galway there is never any religious material and there was always more young women then men. If anti fascism(the pretend variety above) now has to make up evidence then thats very dangerous, though im also trying to figure out why a bible would make them fascist?

by w. - WSM Fri Apr 11, 2008 13:29

This ULTRASOUND group were in DCU last week - the SU allowed them space to set up a large stall, not the first time, and they offered free popcorn and the premiere of this new great film. They seem very well funded.

by anti-facist Fri Apr 11, 2008 14:28

I stated that they were the youth wing of a politically organised and well funded
organisation.

if they are a charity then they shld have no problems allowing access to their
bank statements, founding documents etcetera.

As to bibles, literalists who use the books to advocate control of women are endemic
in most religions. There are many catholic pro-abortionists. (google it).

It is therefore a question of indoctrination, interpretation, control and independence in
any movement. And YD has been accused of violence and dishonesty for a generation.

by Don Fri Apr 11, 2008 17:33

As far as I know Youth Defence are complying with the law with regards funding. Perhaps the should let people what companies are funding, but that might hinder any further funding. Theres no real reason for doing so, unless some has paid they alot of money. Which is what, €6,500? Something like they'll have to declare.

YD is sometimes linked with etremists but ier new PR guy seems like a decent fellow and would rather to keep things in a calm debate. Everyone I know thats in YD are very friendly people.

Also theres no such thing as a "pro-abortion catholic". Any catholic the expresses pro-abortion views is expelled from the church. Everymember of that group, catholics for choice, are no longer members of the catholic church. As I think its ok for the RCC to do this, I still find it strangthat they let Blair become a member. I personally think they should have stricter membership rules.

by Mike - Judean Popular Peoples Front Fri Apr 11, 2008 21:24

"Also theres no such thing as a "pro-abortion catholic". Any catholic the expresses pro-abortion views is expelled from the church."

Whatever happened to "once a catholic -always a catholic" ?

by dobedobedo Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:06

What's all the fuss about. We live in a free society thanks to the allies defeating the Nazis in WWII and NATO protecting the West until the USSR imploded.

The consequence of this is that small unpleasant minorities like Youth Defence and the lobbyists for the abortion-industry have a right to organize and promulgate their views. Thankfully, we also have a right to ignore them and the other irrelevant malcontents and weirdos who populate the left and right fringes.

by _ Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:01

I have spoken to catholic women who have not hesitated to procure abortions, I mean does
the youth wing of YD defence know how completely out of touch with prevalent attitudes
they really are.

they look like a cult of young women who subserve to men to get their oats- and thats just
laughable.

by Plotinus Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:08

We have free speech. The best speech comes from consistent thought allied to a competent grasp of language. Some people have more free speech than others - those elected to parliaments, or op-ed preachers writing their deadline pieces in national newspapers, or those chat show hosts on radio and tv. Then there are the press barons like R. Murdoch and Sir T. O'R who by virtue of wealthy possession have a power over mass expression (through the paid journalists who work for their media) that has implications for democracy. Then there are the totalitarian states where the mass and local media are controlled by the hidden hands of the Party.

Those of us who live in a relatively free expression society like Ireland on the edge of Western Europe should count our blessings in comparison to other less fortunate societies. Nevertheless we should sometimes reflect on hidden and not so hidden political influences on our media, especially RTE. We should try to use our relative freedom of speech to exchange our thoughts with others and to use free thought and free discourse as a tool for progressive change in society.

Listening carefully to those groups and individuals whom we disagree with is one of the difficult freedoms entailed in free exchange of opinions. One of the easiest freedoms to exercise is the freedom to ignore.

by lebowski Sun Apr 13, 2008 15:51

Filmsoc were never told the film was in association with any other society let alone any other organization, in fact they didn't even arrange the booking because they had their own event that night. they did agree to help advertise the film when a (independent)? student had asked them but immediately pulled all involvement when they became aware that it was with another society and organization.

by ergo Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:48

democrats beware. The real fascists are those who, in a university, stifle free speech by pulling down Ultrasound posters (for the film "Bella"). Democrats beware, clearly in UCD, the "anti fascist" fascicts are active. Let students choose whether they wish to view or not. It's called democratic free choice.

by lefty Wed Mar 07, 2012 16:34

"One of the easiest freedoms to exercise is the freedom to ignore."

Thats just stupid talk. Not much use ignoring prime time propaganda when the rest of the voting public is watching and naively absorbing it!! then making decisions on the basis of misinformation. Sorry, but thats a really stupid position to take.

The price of democracy is eternal vigilance. The prime disseminator of information is RTE and as such it should be watched like a hawk and all political / corporate influence on it's news coverage and journalists should be thoroughly scrutinised.

In fact, I wish I had the time and energy to do a daily deconstruction of the prime time news broadcasts on RTE and post it here.