IPSC Protest EU at ongoing crisis in Gaza

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Mar 02, 2011 14:47

..to some of the double-think on display here.

Hamas must conform to international law?
But no mention of the fact that Israel is in breach of more UN resolutions than any other extant state.

Lots of racist vitriol against Islam, typical Europhile(Aryan?)bigotry, and in no way related to my experience travelling in Islamic countries, from Indonesia right through to Morocco. Its always a revelation to see how ignorance enhances certitude.

Sure, I'll recognise israel's existence, but I also know just how it came into being, as does anyone who takes the trouble to honestly enquire.

I realise how America came into being, and recognise its 'existence'. That dont mean I have to condone its self-appointed imperial mission to 'democratise' the world into its narcissistic image, by means of hi-tech war on civilian populations, just as it destroyed the peoples and civilisations of the Americas with its 'Christianising' missions, led by the Spanish Inquisitors. Gold and slavery are the foundation of this spurious democracy, as the Egyptians, and countless others, can testify.

As for those bells, I'll be glad the day they drop the sectarian Angelus from RTE. Some of us also know a little of the vicious history of the 'Christian' churches. Not least in the recent past on this island.

And for Europe's financial support for Palestinians, nothing to the billions pumped into Israel by the US and EU. Conscience pittance for the crime of displacing European Jews into Palestine on fabricated biblical pretences dreamed up by Romantic nationalists in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, often by the same academics who fed the racist wellsprings of Nazi selective ideological constructions.

A distinct odour of ignorant bliss prevails. Shalom.

by JohnHM Thu Dec 27, 2007 20:56

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019332.php

While a Palestinian priest utters sweet dhimmi nothings -- saying, as dhimmis have always said, that the Muslims are wonderful, and the Christians identify with them -- the reality suggests otherwise. "Christmas under Hamas rule,"

by Katya Adler for BBC News (thanks to Mark Durie):

by JOHNHM Thu Dec 27, 2007 16:16

Nodin

The Gaza Arabs have no glasshouses which have been vandalised - only rocket making workshops
which are used to make and fire missiles into israel .

Their transport technology is either using donkeys or Mercedes - they have no time for Ford cars -the inbetween version of transport .
Likewise they live in concrete built " camps " or in large villas --not in normal semi detached or terraced like you and me .
Sharon built the Gaza Arabs some real houses in the 1970s -but the Arab dominated U N made them not use them

Meanwhile the ever so efficient and porsperous Israelis glasshouses which were given to them by Wofensohn and World Bank and EU were destroyed by Gaza Arabs in the days and weeks after the Israelis were evicted and well BEFORE the HAMAS Govt took office -so it was under ABBASS that that happened .

They also did nt want the Israeli houses in Gaza -they dont "live like that " they said so they promptly demolished them and as an example of the religion of "PEACE " they alos vandalished the beautiful synagogues just as they are terrorising Christians now --and burning down church bookshops

It is a miracle that there 500 Christians who were allowed to leave Gaza ---ISRAEL HELPED THEM to go to Bethlehem for Christmas - one wonders how many will go back .

Meanwhile 80% of the Israel is evicted from Gaza are still living in poverty in temporary accommodation -- maybe UNRWWA will help them for 60 years ?

by Nodin Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:39

I note that the usual half truths are being trotted out.....

What about the Palestinian glasshouses that are repeatedly targeted by Israeli actions?
What about the fact that Palestinian produce is kept at checkpoints until it rots?

I notice no mention of the ongoing building program, which classically increases when Palestinian resistance decreases, yet the usual calls to abandon armed struggle.

by Sceptic Wed Dec 26, 2007 21:30

“LET'S JUST TRY IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THESE CONDITIONS WERE IMPOSED ON THE ISRAELI STATE:”

There is much muddying of water here. Israel is not relying on the EU for the money to pay its public sector payroll – its position is completely different. If the EU is paying substantial sums, voluntarily, on an ongoing basis to the Hamas dominated PA in Gaza surely it is right that it get assurances from Hamas as to the use to which these funds will be put? Funds are not being withheld from the Fatah administered areas as Fatah has provided the requisite assurances. The issue is only with Hamas, now a minority administration, not with the PA as a whole.

“THE OCCUPATION OF THE WEST BANK IS ITSELF A FORM OF VIOLENCE”
That is propagandist twisting of things. Danny Morrison use to use a similar line about partition being a form of violence therefore anything goes to resist partition including wholesale bombs and shootings by the IRA. No progress can be made to a peaceful and enduring settlement with this kind of mentality. A process for evolution towards a two State solution under international auspices in the only way forward and realistically is the only one the EU could lend its support to.

“RECOGNITION OF ISRAEL - THE QUID PRO QUO FOR THIS, OF COURSE, COULD ONLY BE ISRAELI RECOGNITION OF A VIABLE, MEANINGFUL PALESTINIAN STATE.”
Recognition that Israel exists and must be negotiated with is recognition of reality nothing more. It is a starting point. It is fantasy to suppose any progress could be made without this. The issue of borders would be for discussion under international auspices. It has nothing to do with the EU funding of Hamas in Gaza.

by JohnHM Wed Dec 26, 2007 18:26

The Arabs in Gaza are like the guy who murdered both his parents

and then claimed mercy because he was an orphan --Mercy Mercy

They got rid of the Israelis ,were given their very prosperous glasshouses , and houses

and then demolished them ,
all the time shooting missiles and rockets into Israel [4000 in 2007 alone ]

and then voted in democratically a Hamas Giovernment who wont negotiate with Israel

so what are they complaining about ?

Anyone over the age of 15 may remember all the hope after Oslo 1993 that Gaza

would be come the Hong Kong of the Middle East - and remember all the Economic

ventures with joint industrial zones which went up in the smoke during the totally useless

Arafat Intifada of 2000 -2006 .

The EU , UN , World Bank pumped billions of dollars in Gaza and they wasted it all .

Look at any footage form there and you see Mercs and "Presidenatial Compaounds "

Get Real

by TheTroll - human race Wed Dec 26, 2007 17:27

Why is the EU aiding Palestinians at all. is it because the Zionist crusader's murderous theft of Palestinian's farms, orchards , graizing lands, fishing towns, hotels, etc really is the cause of Palestinian economic suffering and the destrustion of palestinian lives and lifes???

What? Europeans feel bad about supporting the Zionist 's bloodsoaked crusade and think/feel that giving alms to the people they helped make destitut will clean the Palestinian blood from their hands???

by Feyadeen Mon Dec 24, 2007 15:00

'The EU position is that “In reaction to Hamas victory, Quartet (UN, US, EU and Russia) stated that all members of a new Palestinian government must be committed to non-violence, recognition of Israel, and acceptance of previous agreements and obligations, including the Roadmap.” '

The utter hypocrisy and immorality of the EU postion, summed up in a nut-shell. Let's just try imagine what would happen if these conditions were imposed on the Israeli state:

1) Non-violence - the occupation of the West Bank is itself a form of violence, of course, and would collapse overnight if Israel stopped using violence to enforce its rule. While the 'Quartet' has been huffing and puffing about Palestinian violence, they have not said a word about the repeated attacks on civilian targets by the Israeli army, designed to terrorise the Palestinian people into submission - and often deliberately calculated to sabotage ceasefire agreements. Nor have they condemned the vicious Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006, which involved the deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure.

2) Recognition of Israel - the quid pro quo for this, of course, could only be Israeli recognition of a viable, meaningful Palestinian state. The bare minimum for this would be a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank - not a single inch of that territory remaining in Israeli hands, no settlements, no army bases, nothing, and full Palestinian control over its resources and borders.

That would still be unjust, since it would leave the Palestinians with just 22% of historic Palestine. The original UN resolution which created Israel in 1947 would be fairer, being much closer to a 50-50 split. But certainly nothing less than the full territory of the West Bank and Gaza could even be contemplated by anyone who wants to see a peace settlement.

Instead of course, the Israeli elite is only willing to contemplate withdrawing from about 50% of the West Bank, leaving plenty of settlements and army bases in Israeli hands (the route of the apartheid wall is very revealing of their intentions). The so-called 'state' granted to the Palestinians would be a joke - four lumps of territory cut off from each other, with access from one part of 'Palestine' to another controlled by Israel, and then Gaza even more isolated.

Nobody in the current Israeli government will accept a full withdrawal from the West Bank. They have made this abundantly clear on many occasions.

3) Acceptance of previous agreements and obligations - this, presumably, would include the Oslo deal. This agreement was itself heavily slanted against the Palestinians, but even so, there has been no Israeli prime minister who supported the deal since 1996. Netanyahu, Barak, Sharon and Olmert were all opposed to Oslo.

So if the famous '3 conditions' were imposed by the Quartet on Israel, it would be impossible for them to have any military, economic or diplomatic relationship with the Israeli state. Of course, that's never going to happen - the purpose of the 3 conditions is to crush all Palestinian resistance to the occupation. The Quarter wants the Palestinian leadership to surrender in advance of any negotiations, to forfeit the right to resist the occupation and give Israel everything it wants.

Note that the 'international community' has never demanded that the Palestinian leadership renounce attacks on civilian targets (a perfectly fair demand, as long as the same demand was made of Israel). No, they have demanded that it renounce 'violence' - in other words, the legitimate right to use force against an illegal military occupation must be renounced. And the formula about 'recognising Israel' is purposely vague. As the Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniyeh has repeatedly told journalists, how can Hamas recognise Israel when it has never defined its borders? Which Israel should they recognise?

by Sceptic Sat Dec 22, 2007 19:25

To say the EU should be doing more is weak. It is already doing quite a lot that it would be right to acknowledge, probably very much more than the average activist for the IPSC knows about. What inhumane treatment is there at the hands of the EU? The people in Palestine may be suffering but it is not the EU that is causing the suffering. In fact it is doing all it can to alleviate suffering and make a better future. The community is among the bigger if the biggest donor of aid and assistance of various types to the Palestinians - the details are set out in the link. The EU has been endeavouring to build capacity in the Palestinian State – nation building if you will. The suspension of one element of aid is not just about terrorism but is about avoiding the development of a failed State. Aspects of a failed State are a State that sponsors or tolerates terrorism and does not respect international agreements and norms. It is a legitimate view to hold that the residents of Gaza have no worthwhile future if a Hamas dominated PA is unreformed in these respects. Note that almost all the public sector payroll of the PA was paid by the EU prior to the Hamas election victory.

It’s easy to protest, mount a picket against a soft target and so on. What would take courage would be for the friends of Palestine to face up to some hard questions about the quality and direction of governance elements of the PA leadership.

Fiduciary is not a jargon word – it refers to holding money on behalf of others in trust. Those who are in positions of authority in the EU institutions know that they have a duty to spend taxpayers’ moneys wisely and for the right purposes. Giving large amounts of aid to ministries of an administration that have not disavowed terrorism against another State would be an abuse of trust. Presumably there must be some people in the IPSC who understand that. The IPSC may say it disapproves of terrorism after it happens but it is incumbent on a funding organisation not just to disapprove of terrorism but to do all it can to avoid facilitating or in any way encouraging it before it happens too. In picketing the EU offices the IPSC is just ignoring these realities.

by Ormond Sat Dec 22, 2007 18:05

Leave the big words at home. The bottom line is that decent people are suffering. The E.U. with its resources has many ways to help theses people if they cared enough to do something. It’s not a matter of money alone as you seem to think. As we argue the point here people in Gaza are feeling the effects of the E.U.’s inhumane treatment. Well done IPSC.

by Sceptic Tue Dec 18, 2007 16:24

Much of what is written here is extremely inaccurate in its rather prejudicial account of EU Palestinian relations. The EU has not imposed sanctions on the PA – rather it has suspended direct assistance to the Hamas controlled area. The EU position is that “In reaction to Hamas victory, Quartet (UN, US, EU and Russia) stated that all members of a new Palestinian government must be committed to non-violence, recognition of Israel, and acceptance of previous agreements and obligations, including the Roadmap.” - full link below. As the major donor to the PA the EU as a democratic and law based multilateral organisation is entitled and indeed is duty bound as a fiduciary matter to ensure that its taxpayers funding is not used for purposes like terrorism which is an absolute anathema to everything the EU stands for, irrespective of legitimate Palestine grievances. (Note that Europe has often been a target of Palestinian terrorism (eg. Munich, Dawsons Field, Rome and Vienna airport massacres by Abu Nidal). The same is true with regard to the respecting of international agreements. There are still large flows of EU funds to various Palestinian recipients however and as part of the quartet the union has been striving to support multilateral efforts to bring about a settlement of the issue. In picketing the EU office the wrong target was chosen. The EU’s influence is one for good in the region.

by Garry - IPSC Tue Dec 18, 2007 13:02

More photos from the demo