The Turoe Stone

by Knocknadala Mon Oct 15, 2007 22:35

"Knocknadala" - "Cnoc na Dála" in the Celtic language - LITERALLY means "Hill of Parliament". As far as I know, there is no other place in Ireland (or anywhere else in Europe) called Knocknadala at the present time.

by Susan Isabella Sheehan-Repasky - Flicker Light Studio Mon Oct 15, 2007 22:49

It is my understanding that this is not the first time the Turoe Stone has been moved. I read that the original location of the stone was near the Rath of Feerwore, nearby Kiltullagh. It is unfortunate that so many things ancient are being moved/changed/destroyed. Unless a miracle occurs, I fear that this destruction will not be stopped.

by Local Mon Oct 15, 2007 23:32

Please note though that the move you write about Susan was just a matter of a few hundred yards or so.

As far as I know none of the local people ever objected to that particular move, which possibly happened around a hundred years ago - because, for one thing, it meant that it was much more easy for visitors to find and to view the Turoe Stone in the slightly changed location.

In my view the Turoe Stone should be put back to where it was a hundred years or so ago inside a protective enclosure of some kind, that is on the "Rath of Feerwore" where it originally stood, and with new and easy access for visitors provided.

One possible meaning for the "Rath of Feerwore" by the way is: "Fort of the Great Men" - from "Fir Mhor" (literally "Big Men" in the Celtic language).

by Susan Isabella Sheehan-Repasky - Flicker Light Studio Tue Oct 16, 2007 00:22

Local, I agree with you. The Turoe Stone should be placed back in its original spot. But, who is to say that spot is the original one? I have just returned from the U.K., where I had the opportunity to visit Stonehenge. Knowing that those stones were also moved made the visit less special. Original intent of energy, whatever that energy might be, is made null and void.

by C Murray Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:44

I really think that people should be looking at lobbying the heritage agencies and councils
on the issue of a re-instigation of a statutory agency for the protection of natural and built
heritage. I have been saying this since 2003 when Duchas was abolished. Is it so very
difficult for a meeting of concerned conservationists to lobby the State on their duty of
care to monuments????

Since the Tara campaigns began, the focus has been both local and national
but apart from An Taisce and the work of people like Dr Martin Kaye and the people
who organised information symposia out in Dalgan park, no-one has focussed
on:-
1. The Planning laws from Housing Bill (miscellaneous Provisions) 2002
2.The National Monuments Act 2004 (as amended)
3.The creation of the NRA and the statutory implication of its role as a profit making body.
4.The SIB.
5. Our Culture and the necessity to protect it in the face of unsustainable policy
and urban sprawl.

It is imperative that the issues round planning and the DOE are looked at in the context of
fast-track planning without a separate set of legislations on protection.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74597
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74361

by Local Tue Oct 16, 2007 15:30

A collection of photographs and drawings, which includes photos of several sections of the ancient Celtic defence system surrounding Turoe which have survived the centuries, can be viewed at http://www.handofhistory.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=1 .

by name Wed Oct 17, 2007 01:47

there's a shed been put over it I can't find picture of that but this is the glimpse you get at it
http://www.keithandkathleensadventures.com/wp-content/u...e.jpg

http://www.megalithomania.com/hires/800x600/turoe.jpg
setting beside playpark with cattle grid

http://www.lookaroundireland.com/celticinteractive/turo...e.htm
panorama

there was an article in the tribune or sbp can't find it right now.

http://www.midirelandtourism.ie/new/sightseeingEntDtl.p...id=10
tourism buff for americans

by W. Finnerty. Thu Oct 18, 2007 15:23

An effort was made yesterday (via e-mail) to try to ensure that several of our senior public servants became aware of the general situation regarding what's involved in the "Turoe Stone" situation: which is a LOT more than most people appear to realise (in my view).

Full details of the e-mail used can be seen in the copy which has now been placed at the following address:
http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...l.htm

Among other things, and as can be judged by the contents of the above e-mail (which includes information on two separate written petitions), there appears to be an extraordinary "blindness", and/or "denial" of some kind, regarding this whole "Turoe / Knocknadala" business, and the planned PPP "N6 Upgrade" which is now scheduled to destructively plough right through the middle of that particular part of East County Galway.

As many will already know mainland Europe was the main "home" of the ancient Celtic peoples, up to the time the Roman Legions decimated their numbers and destroyed most of their local communities, during the centuries just before and just after the time of Christ.

That the Celtic communities living in Ireland survived all the vigour and wrath of the mighty Roman Legions (fully intact), is, in all probability (as far as I know), due entirely to the massive defence system they centred around the Turoe Stone: possibly the largest, most sophisticated, and most successful defence arrangement that they ever constructed anywhere in Europe.

The small mountain of gold jewellery (and other treasures) the Celts in Ireland were well know to possess was not something the leaders of ancient Rome were likely to be ignorant of?

It is also of course the case that the Roman Legions already knew VERY well what it was like to be on the receiving end of right good beating from the Celts: as had been administered to them from time to time by (for example) people like Vercingetorix in France (see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Vercingetorix%2C+C...earch , and Boudicca in England (see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Boudicca%2C+Nero+&...earch ).

by sketcher Fri Oct 19, 2007 04:27

threw this together to see if your right about the N6 upgrade from the maps linked here http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/GalwayCountyCounci....html
this collection of photos and maps here http://www.handofhistory.com/photos/displayimage.php?al...os=33
a lat/long info on googlemap here http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/2397/turoe_sto...neMap

seems you are unfortunately

what was the original location, within the hill just to the north?

boy they chose a perfect location for that road n6 didn't they not.

REd is N6 upgrade Knocknadala(top) Turoe(lower) hills, red point current location

by jd Fri Oct 19, 2007 09:40

I presume they intend to move the Stone to the new Galway Civic Museum -if so -

the museum has come in for some harsh political criticism of late for the dearth of artefacts and such items it houses.

Could it be that this 'move' has more to do with political considerations than any concern for the Stone?

by W. Finnerty. Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:55

"sketcher" (Fri Oct 19, 2007 04:27 above),

Well done with the map!!

As far as I can remember (from a visit to the site about four years ago), the original location of the Turoe Stone was just a fraction to the left of where you have indicated its present position in your drawing above - about the same distance on the map as the width of the letter "a" in the word "Loughrea" (on your map above) - and to the LEFT.

From the Turoe Stone's present location, I recall walking about one to two hundred yards and crossing over a stone wall along the way - which I think may have had a small inbuilt stone style of some kind. (In fact there seems to be a VERY faint trace of the wall in question on your map.)

As stated in one of the postings above, the original location of the Turoe Stone is know as the "Rath of Feerwore" (which gets spelt in a variety of ways), and there are still a number of fairly large undecorated stones remaining at that location. (It seems likely these would have formed part of a stone circle when the site was in use for ceremonial purposes.)

I notice there seems to be plenty of information available on the "Rath of Feerwore" via the following link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Rath+of+Feerwore&b...earch

Also, one of the MOST important facts about the Rath of Feerwore, and the Turoe Stone, is that they both sat on the Esker Riada (An Sli Mor): arguably the oldest and most important road in the world (from a human history perspective): more on this at http://homepage.tinet.ie/~williamfinnerty/chaplefinnert...1.htm

by W. Finnerty. Sat Oct 20, 2007 14:24

Some may be interested in the additional information relating to the Turoe Stone contained in the "Appeal to Bord Pleanala" dated September 22nd 2004, which was copied to several senior "public servants", and a copy of which can be viewed at http://www.finnachta.com/Hotmail22Sept2004/KnocknadalaN...6.htm

The above appeal to An Bord Pleanala contains clear mention (in "Section 2") of what it is thought many would see as wholly unreasonable, undemocratic, (and possibly unlawful?) interference regarding the matter of the way "Route Choice" was conducted IN PRACTICE: by a Government Minister.

To go directly to a copy of the 100% OFFICIAL letter in question, by Minister Noel Treacy T.D. dated 20th August 2001, please click on http://www.finnachta.com/Hotmail22Sept2004/MTL.htm

What chance would local people have of genuinely participating in the decision-making process with letters of the kind at the address just above flying about? - which might (?) of course be just one of many similar ones penned by Minister Treacy and his colleagues in GOVERNMENT.

by Carmel Sun Oct 21, 2007 19:16

Hi all,

I went to visit the stone myself yesterday and couldnt believe it when I was directed to a SHED. This Tacky and Dour looking monstrosity houses this beautiful stone , hiding it away as if in shame. You can look in at it through 2 small windows.

It stands on a pet farm and the owner informed me that the SHED was put there by the OPW to protect it from alleged damage caused by the animals and children. Unreal.

If it really needed protection couldnt they have come up with something less dour and tacky like a glass dome maybe? Can anyone put a picture up of the OPW solution here as it really is scandalous. I cant seem to compress pics small enough for printing here. I see someone else has asked previously too.

Ya gotta see it to believe it. I had to really suppress a very strong urge to pull the whole thing down. How dare they!!!!

Carmel

by Heritage Defender Tue Oct 23, 2007 15:23

Here are the pics Carmel was talking about.

by Carmel Tue Oct 23, 2007 16:02

Thank you so much for posting the pics, it is very important that people see them.

Would appreciate it too if a local could tell us exactly how many months this Temporary structure has been in place.
( And if ye are looking for firewood for Halloween look no further!)

In my opinion the stone should be put back to where it came from. The land can be dowsed to find the location or an educated guess made by Astronomers and those who study Stone Circles, as these energy spots are , in nearly all cases markers for Astronomical events. Moving it back to its original position would far better serve as a testament to the advanced Scientific knowledge of our Celtic Ancestors.

Put it Back!
Apparently it was put in its present position by an English Landlord during the Famine.

Carmel

by Local Tue Oct 23, 2007 21:25

For those who have never seen it up close (minus the shed!!), some better views of the Turoe Stone are provided in the photographs below. (They have been copied from the following location: http://www.handofhistory.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=1 )

Some local people believe that during ceremonies the Turoe Stone would have been painted in vivid colours, and the black and white sketch below gives a very rough indication of how it might have appeared with colours added. The sketch is by Michael Duignan, as can be seen at http://www.foundationsirishculture.ie/wide.php?id=29&pr...nt=on , and who may (it seems) have been connected with NUI (National University of Ireland) Galway.

Local people also claim it was a member of the Dolphin family who, during the Great Famine years, moved the Turoe Stone from the nearby "Rath of Feerwore" - just so it would appear in front of his house. And, that he used horses and chains to pull it along the ground for the few hundred yards between the original and present location - which might explain the fairly large chunk that's now missing, as can be seen on the photograph at the "foundationsirishculture" address above (roughly two-thirds way down on right-hand side of photo).

Sketch on left by Michael Duignan

Turoe Stone after being cleaned

by Interested Tue Oct 23, 2007 21:41

"Several Dolphins were among the largest landowners in Co. Galway at the end of the nineteenth century and one held Turoe."

"An example of an old English name, of Norse origin, which became thoroughly hibernicized."

by discordian Tue Dec 04, 2007 16:17

Seriously, Bullaun/Turoe as a massive enclosed defensive 'oppidum' which scared away the nasty Romans. This is pure fantasy. Yes the stone is one of the finest, if not the finest, example of La Tene art in all of Europe - which is exactly why it should be moved from an exposed field in the middle of dreary east Galway and put on display in a location where people will bother to visit. The Priest's book is pure conjecture and even features an ancient conspiracy theory where the ancient scholars plotted to downplay the fantasy capital of Turoe to promote Tara. His great ramparts are pure fantasy - no archaeolgical evidence. The advance testing for the road by archaeologists revealed zero, nothing, nada!

Knocknadala - so what if there are no other hills with Dal in the name. There were Dala all over the country - it just means place of assembly - many small tuath had dala!

by Carmel Tue Dec 04, 2007 18:05

Discordion, would that have been NRA Archaeologists by any chance? Seeing as they have done such a crap job at Tara, (imagine missing an entire Henge!!!) I believe nothing.

And by the way, people come from all over the world to visit the Stone.

by V Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:25

"Within hours of I returning to my retirement home in New Inn (County Galway) during the Summer of 1998, I was surprised and deeply shocked to see a front page headline in a local newspaper announcing plans which involved the location of a huge "superdump" close to the world famous Turoe Stone, which also happens to be close to my retirement home."

An effort was made yesterday to bring the above issue, and several others relating to the subject of "state tyranny", to the attention of some people closely connected with the European Union.

The details can be found at: http://www.humanrightsireland.com/MEPs/13August2008/Ema...l.htm

by V Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:32

"Roman legions rang Celtic Gaul & Britain's death-knell. Archaeological evidence, archaic texts and Ptolemy of Alexandria's record led the author to discover 'Regia E Tera' and 'Nagnata', Ptolemy's 'most illustrious and extensive acropolis in all Britannia set in the Western part of Ireland' (i.e. Turoe), uniquely linked to the consequent Celtic invasion of Ireland." (Copied from http://www.handofhistory.com )

"This book presents a Celtic Royal complex, unprecedented in Ireland for its size and layout, but similar to Belgic Centres of Power, called oppida by Caesar, in SE England and on the Continent. It was centered on Turoe in Co. Galway, site of the famous Turoe Stone." (Additional information is available at http://www.handofhistory.com for additional information.)

Please see at http://www.humanrightsireland.com/GerardMadden/24Octobe...l.htm for details of today's attempt to stop this avoidable and unlawful "PPP Scheme" (Public Private Partnership) in the immediate area of the Turoe Stone (the MOST important piece of Celtic stone-art in the world).

Related link: http://www.handofhistory.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=1

by The Archdruid of Ireland - The Order of Druids in Ireland, O.D.I. Mon Oct 27, 2008 14:01 mcgratmj at tcd dot ie Lavistown, Dunbell, County Kilkenny, Ireland. 0863247628

To move the Turoe Stone would be a Sacrilege in our eyes. It would also disturb the telluric force of earth energies right across Connaught and the West, as right now it is a centre of leyline energy focused for good upon the lLand and all people and animals, flora and fauna. This is yet another attack upon our Tradition and Heritage as Druids of Ireland, after they got away with destroying Tara. I call upon all those opposed to the removal of the Turoe Stone to contact me here - Archdruid Mairtin O'Druachain, photographerofkilkenny@gmail.com, or mcgratmj@tcd.ie to see what we can do to protest and to internationalise a campaign to Save the Turoe Stone.

Le gach dea ghui,

Mairtin O'Druachain,
Chosen Chief of the Order of Druids in Ireland, O.D.I.

Mobile 085-3247628

PhotographerOfKilkenny@gmail.com
mcgratmj@tcd.ie
http://irishdruids.blogspot.com

by Mairtin O'Druachain - The Order of Druids in Ireland, O.D.I. Mon Oct 27, 2008 15:01 mcgratmj at tcd dot ie Lavistown, Dunbell, County Kilkenny, Ireland. 086-3247628

As the Turoe Stone is at its present location since the Famine, that actual position is now be the centre of fabulous earth energies networked across the Land for the nourishment of the Land and all upon it.

It must therefore on no account be moved from its present location ! Or didaster may befall the Land and the People.

The argument ensuing here about the respective merits of Tara or Turoe is neither here nor there, spiritually speaking, for Tara is always the temporal centre of the kingdom.

But not the Sacred Centre - for that is Uisneach, neither Tara nor Turoe.

Le gach dea ghui,

Mairtin O'Druachain,
Chosen Chief of the Order of Druids in Ireland, ODI .

Lavistown,
Dunbell,
County Kilkenny,
Ireland.

by Mairtin O'Druachain - The Order of Druids in Ireland, O.D.I. Mon Oct 27, 2008 16:01 mcgratmj at tcd dot ie Lavistown, Dunbell, Co. Kilkenny 0863247828

Carmel is right - that SHED is an Insult to Ireland !

It must be replaced by a beautifully Arch - BUT, there must be no iron present in the construction of such an Arch as this nullifies, in fact it would lock in, the wonderful earth energies emanating from the Turoe Stone, which BTW are great cures for cancer etc.

I have in mind a magnificent Arch along the design of the Trinity College Bell Arch for the Turoe Stone, with Gaelic Irish embellishment.

It should be designed by a deservous upcoming Irish Sculpture student.

That SHED should be destroyed, like right now !!!

Mairtin

by Wondering Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:32

"It seems that 3 or 4 good quality replicas of the Turoe Stone were made during the time the film 'Alfred the Great' was being made in Galway (around1968/9), and that these copies are now located at University College Galway, University College Cork, the National Museum in Dublin, and at an unknown location in Japan (possibly close to Tokyo city centre?). There seemed to be some doubt about the replica which was taken to Japan several years ago in connection with arrangements made by the then Minister for Heritage Mr. Noel Treacy T.D. - in that it might have been produced at a different time to the others (using a different technique possibly?)".

"Nobody seemed to know where the 'Alfred the Great' mould is located (assuming that it has not been destroyed or discarded). Apparently, the job of making this particular mould was a BIG undertaking."

The above pieces of text have been copied from http://www.finnachta.com/MeetingReport/25July2003.htm

by Druid Elder Tue Oct 28, 2008 14:37

There is a valid and good reason for having the Truroe Stone
under cover.

ACID RAIN !

Stones wear away naturally with weather and for several years the rain that falls in torrents on this land of ours, contains acid from the worlds manufacturing industries.

Which is the reason for the shoddy looking shed, at least a shed is far easily replaced than would be the stone!

by Dolphin descendant abroad Sat Dec 20, 2008 16:45

Sorry to read about this situation. Any new developments?

by Local Sat Dec 20, 2008 17:51

You'll be pleased to learn that a decision has apparently been made recently by Galway County Council to leave the Turoe Stone in Turoe.

Though I did not hear the report myself, reliable sources in the Turoe area have informed me that it was mentioned on Galway Bay FM (local radio station) -- about 10 days ago, I understand.

One thing seems absolutely certain: there is ferocious opposition locally to the idea of the Turoe Stone being moved from Turoe.

Hardly surprising perhaps?

Related link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Turoe+Stone%2C+Gal...earch

by W. Finnerty. Mon Jan 04, 2010 18:59

Dear Fr Tom,

RE: "I really wonder where this destructive nonsense comes from."
 
My own view is that much of it is very likely coming from sources that are worried about the several major (and mean!!) scams connected with "PPP" schemes being EXPOSED (for what they truly are): among which (I believe) is the extremely worrying business of the undermining of soverign states: and generally referred to as the "Rohatyn-Shultz menace" in the now -- THREE year old plus -- December 8th 2006 "Executive Intelligence Review" article reproduced at: http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/site_packages/eco....html 
 
I drove (for the first time) yesterday on the new "M6" (not the "N6 Upgrade" anymore it seems) -- in the Turoe/Athenry area -- and it really did appear to me as a massive, ignorant, and of course completely avoidable (and now irreversible) intrusion on the Iron Age "royal complex and massive defence system" (surrounding the Turoe Stone) which your books describe.
 
To add insult to injury, there are "PPP" promotional type signs plastered all over the place at the entrances and exits -- and, in complete contrast, no mention whatsoever of the extremely important local heritage that this new "PPP Toll Road" now ploughs through, and which includes at its centre the world famous Turoe Stone ( http://homepage.eircom.net/~williamfinnerty/protest/nov...e.htm ): by far the best known and most important piece of Celtic stone-art in the world (as far as I know). And, not forgetting of course the fact that, among those who have carefully studied the subject, the Celts are widely believed to have been the "First Masters of Europe" ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en...&aqi= ) - and well ahead (in certain very important ways) of the ancient Greeks and Romans.
 
In an effort to try to reduce your very understandable concerns, I have this morning added some extra bits and pieces under the "Please Note" section of the web page at: http://www.humanrightsireland.com/MargotWallstrom/SATUR...eNote
 
Finally, and while realising that you might find this extremely difficult to accept at the present time, the "destructive nonsense" (concerning you and your work) which you have mentioned might, in the fullness of time, yet be seen as a very good and useful indicator?

It could mean (for example) that your work is deeply worrying for certain VERY wealthy and influential people who have a huge interest in keeping the truth about their PPP scams well concealed - scams which always seem to involve VAST sums of tax-payers money, and the vast undermining of local democratic control in all of the soverign nation-states that have so far been foolish enough (as I see things) to embrace them, and get themselves all tangled up in.
 
One big disadvantage, for people who deliberately use such "destructive nonsense" (as you have put it) to try and cover up the truth about their well hidden and extremely expensive secret agendas, is that they are inadvertently revealing to us all, albeit by indirect means, the otherwise invisible "areas" where they are hurting, and worrying about.

So, keep up the good work of exposing them (and their pernicious activities) I'd say: regardless of the personal insults, and the attempts to cause deliberate error and confusion (regarding "M1 mistake" for example).
 
If, on the other hand, the "Stephen Kelly Priest" business (and similar) which you refer to is just simply the work of some genuine crank, or some misfit or very idle person of one kind or another (who can find nothing better to do with their time), then why should any of us care very much about such relatively harmless activities: particularly when their statements are awash with obvious mistakes that the "better informed" people can easily spot?
 
I know for sure that I don't care very much anymore about such people, or their actions: certainly not enough to stop me trying to expose the real rot (as I see it), and those behind it who are responsible for sustaining it all, and trying to expand it still further.

Best wishes,
 
William (Finnerty).

by Researcher - None Mon Jul 21, 2014 19:14

The research done on this topic in the general Turoe area is seriously lacking in rigour. There never was a townland called 'Knocknadaula', even though this name arises in O'Donovan's Placenames. A Patent Roll gives the name as 'Knockerdall' and 'Knockerdaly'. This is Cnoch an Dálaigh, or Daly's Hill. The Daly name is prolific in the general environs of Turoe. A Donnagh O'Daly held Turoe townland jointly with Dolphin in 1641.

When the literature is carefully examined it is full of contradictions as to where the Turoe stone was found. Nobody has pointed out all the local land which was granted to the Earl of Clanricarde by James 1, including Galboley Castle and 'Tworoe' (Patent Roll 8, James 1.). This man also held the Hy-Many inauguration site at Cluain Acha Liag, now called 'Killeroran' (near Ballygar). The Castlestrange La Tene stone belongs to this royal seat, though its location was at the Oenach site (within Castlekelly). It is a perfect match for the Turoe stone.

Nobody has pointed out that Clanricarde owned Galboley Castle, within a stone's throw of Turoe house, and that the Turoe stone was found not far from its ruin (if not in fact just there). The most likely explanation of the historical location of the Turoe stone is the Hy-Many inauguration mound in Killeroran, now plundered. Clanricarde had every reason to take such a stone from there, given that he opposed Irish Chieftaincy and that Red Hugh O'Donnell has defiantly inaugurated Feardorcha O'Kelly there in 1595 although Hy-Many had capitulated to Elizabeth 1 ten years earlier.

Nobody with an ounce of savvy can take seriously the "explanations" being offered for the historic location of this fine stone. Who can explain the ox, pig and bird bones CAREFULLY buried at Feerwore, (seemingly snipe) other than that this was somebody's little hoax. And as for some of the "explanations" put on "Feerwore", Irish grammar is evidently not a strong point of some who rush to print!

Let's have better marks for research.

by East Galway Resident Sat Jul 26, 2014 20:00

"Last week, I also noticed there were three, or possibly four, large "Office of Public Works" signs carrying information (for the general-public) about the Turoe Stone, which are very prominently displayed at the entrance to Turoe Pet Farm: but, none of which say anything about the fact that the Turoe Stone is not located at the Turoe Pet Farm at the present time, or about the fact that the Office of Public Works apparently removed it last year from The Turoe Pet Farm, or, why it was removed (which Mary Corcoran, referred to above, related to me was for cleaning, she believes).

All, or almost all, Republic of Ireland TDs (Member of Parliament) have been informed about this situation in the two e-mail copies, dated July 11th and 15th 2014, at the www addresses provided just below:

http://www.humanrightsireland.com/Dail31TDs/Group1of2/1...l.htm

http://www.humanrightsireland.com/Dail31TDs/Group2of2/1...l.htm