HOPI - Teach - In

by Aragon Thu Nov 15, 2007 18:11

Are you referring to my post? You cant have read it through if so - to highlight US hypocrisy we should protest all those countries that the US backs and which are responsible for oppression.

by Watcher Thu Nov 15, 2007 17:52

"In protesting Iranian human rights abuses - protest them loudly but make sure to always compare them to those of the US - death penalty, torture, rendition, etc"

Why only Iranian human rights abuses? Human rights abuses are happening all over the place. By being selective, we condone the human rights abuses elsewhere. How many times has this got to said. Repeatedly attacking Iran on a record of human rights abuses while ignoring worse levels elsewhere is to condone those by default. The person who is repeatedly doing this is not a friend of human rights activists but has a selfish agenda and it's about time that he/she declared that so that we can address that issue in it's correct context. If there is a specific issue that can be shown to be exclusively an Iranian problem so be it.

by Gerry C Thu Nov 15, 2007 15:00

"First, highlight the massive scale of US hypocrisy by protesting at all embassies and delegations where the US has backed or installed violent dictatorships - coordinate this with similarly minded anti-war groups eslewhere?

Protest US torture and other abuses loudly (murdering mentally ill prisoners eg)

In protesting Iranian human rights abuses - protest them loudly but make sure to always compare them to those of the US - death penalty, torture, rendition, etc

All to roll out as a co-ordinated/ timetabled series of protests /actions in different phases."

I have absolutely no problem with this course of action in its entirety.
Intolerance and injustice are HUMAN failings, not just Iranian ones.

by Aragon Thu Nov 15, 2007 14:35

I've come to a different opinion on this issue and offer a suggestion here for those who think HOPI are 'playing into the hands of the US' .

The mistake was in not looking past the size and viciousness of the US war machine to see what is actually a great strength as a weakness. The fact that the US uses human rights hypocrisy in its attempt to justify war is in fact a huge opportunity to have a go at both oppression and warmongering. If a huge fuss is made about US hypocrisy while challenging Iranian oppression we illustrate the similarities between the two entities and make it more rather than less likely that we might defeat both. This is not an either/ or situation and contrary to what Ive argued before, staying quiet about Iranian abuses 'until the war has been stopped' helps rather than hinders the US.

Not sure what all has been happening around the country but how about these suggestions if they have not already been thunk up and acted on/rejected:

A two-pronged approach.

First, highlight the massive scale of US hypocrisy by protesting at all embassies and delegations where the US has backed or installed violent dictatorships - coordinate this with similarly minded anti-war groups eslewhere?

Protest US torture and other abuses loudly (murdering mentally ill prisoners eg)

In protesting Iranian human rights abuses - protest them loudly but make sure to always compare them to those of the US - death penalty, torture, rendition, etc

All to roll out as a co-ordinated/ timetabled series of protests /actions in different phases.

by Michael Conway - Non-affiliated Tue Nov 06, 2007 20:26

"I'm guessing the real problem here is that the anonymous critics just fundamentally disagree with the HOPI position (also held by the ISN), which is that "my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend"

That is not the case, but it is gratifying to engage with calm reason instead of vitriol .

The HOPI statement as set out on its web site is sound and broadly speaking has principled objectives. There are some differences of opinion that crop up but it has been impossible to put those views across by anyone without having to deal with some HOPI supporters (Not HOPI- there is a difference) going off the deep end in their criticism on this forum. It is also unique to this forum as no other Indymedia outlet has witnessed it.

The term Islamo-fascist and equating the Iranian regime to the Nazi regime are particularly worrying.

HOPI chose its name to show solidarity with the people of Iran as opposed to its government.
But it does not address the distinct criterion which make up the body politik in Iran.
92% of the Iranian population are Muslim. The majority of those are practicing and adherent believers in Islam and its teachings. They believe Allah's will is infallible (as do devout Christians in their belief system when referring to God) so they have no political difficulties in placing his/her teachings central to their legal and civil institutions. The separation of Church and state is an alien concept to them.

That is a reality in Iran. Ignoring it or simply white-washing over it because it presents distasteful and problematic barriers to showing solidarity with ordinary Iranians does an enormous injury to the pursuit of reform. It treats Iranians as imbeciles and is an insult to their very beliefs.

That is not a solid basis to form a solidarity with them, neither is pretending it doesn't even come into the equation.

Quite rightly all acts of brutality carried out in Iran should be condemned. Solidarity with trade unionists is also to be welcomed and encouraged, but it is detrimental in the long run to do so by isolating those Iranians who feel these repressive moves are by and large in the greater interests of Iran. Because this section of the Iranian population are the majority. The ordinary Iranians who go about their day to day business who no inclination toward socialism. Socialism is a minority political endeavour in the West, why presume it is any different in the Middle East?

Iran is a vast country with an enormous population who primarily do not wish be attacked and should be able to determine their own political future whatever that may be free from vitriol and accusations of Fascism and Nazism being flung at them so flippantly.

by Watcher Tue Nov 06, 2007 19:25

" I'm guessing the real problem here is that the anonymous critics just fundamentally disagree with the HOPI position (also held by the ISN), which is that "my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend". Now, if that's the point of difference, why not be honest and say so? The mudslinging is ridiculous."

For the umpteen time, many people have serious concerns because HOPI have singled out Iran to repeatedly attack and in a manner that smacks of propaganda. Iran is a lot of things but it is not, by a long shot, the worst place when it comes to human rights abuses. Which obviously begs the question, which HOPI refuse to answer, Why only Iran?

by Fintan Lane - Irish Socialist Network (and AWI) Mon Nov 05, 2007 21:01

There's something downright disturbing about these repeated attacks on indymedia on HOPI - which is quite clearly an anti-imperialist campaign - and I don't think they're a great deal different from the unseemly gloating elsewhere about the public rifts in Respect across the water. It's left-infighting gone mad.

HOPI were recently refused affiliation to the Stop the War Coalition in Britain for reasons I can't fully comprehend. It seems to be because people strongly associated with HOPI (the small CPGB group and their Weekly Worker) have spent time sniping at the leadership of StWC in the past (something they still do). A rather poor reason I would have thought, but whatever. The point is - or my point is - that HOPI clearly indicated where it stood on US threats to Iran when they aligned themselves (or tried to) with the Stop the War Coalition. More to the point, any unblinkered reading of their website indicates that they are utterly opposed to US imperialism.

Suggestions to the contrary are little more than an crude attempt to throw dust in people's eyes. I'm guessing the real problem here is that the anonymous critics just fundamentally disagree with the HOPI position (also held by the ISN), which is that "my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend". Now, if that's the point of difference, why not be honest and say so? The mudslinging is ridiculous.

Well done to HOPI for organising this meeting on Saturday and well done to the IAWM for organising the anti-war demonstration that gathers that day outside the Central Bank. These are complementary events.

by John O'Neill - ISN Mon Nov 05, 2007 19:44

Congratulations to HOPI for orginising the teach in. Looking forward to Saturday

by alem Pyle Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:35

It’s a real shame that HOPI couldn’t have organized their teach-in to coincide better with the campus teach-ins going on in America this week as part of Islamo-fascist awareness week.(IFAW) Do try to synch HOPI events a little closer in the future with what’s going on in other parts of the free world.I wonder whether it might be possible for you to get some of the literature sent over from the US – there’s one pamphlet called the Islamic Mein Kampf that sounds particularly pertinent .
It might be a tad too late to arrange at short notice, but some kind of NYC-Dublin video link-in would be great or a guest speaker from one of the New York happenings –somebody of the stature of Ann Coulter who really knows what’s going on in mullah-controlled countries like Iran .For more info on Islamo -fascist Awareness Week see:
http://nyc.indymedia.org/or/2007/10/92037.html