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Why Ireland never got nuclear power
 national |
environment |
opinion/analysis
 Friday September 07, 2007 11:50 by Alan - WSM
The debate has started. One of the ESB unions, Unite-Amicus, wants the government to build nuclear power stations. We are told that it’s a “clean technology” that will reduce climate change.
 What isn’t being given as much publicity is that there is still no way of safe way to dispose of nuclear waste, and that the ultimate ‘weapons of mass destruction’ are a by-product of the nuclear industry. Even more frightening is the reality that just one mistake or accident at a power plant can kill tens, even hundreds of thousands. Near misses like at Three Mile Island in the USA and Mihama in Japan show it can happen, disasters like Chernobyl show us what has already happened.
In the late 1970s a Fianna Fail government was going ahead with plans to build not one, but four, nuclear power stations at Carnsore Point in Co. Wexford. We were promised clean and safe energy that would be so cheap it would be hardly worth metering (in fact it is the most expensive form of electricity generation when waste disposal and decommissioning are taken into account).
Unfortunately for the government and the ESB Board of Directors, not everyone accepted that the plan was some sort of benevolent gift to the Irish people. The main white collar union in the ESB (the ESB Officers Association) produced a detailed report on the health, safety, and civil liberties risks. This was widely circulated both within the ESB and more generally in the trade union movement.
Parallel with this, local anti-nuclear groups sprang up all over the country. Within months a libertarian anti-nuclear magazine called the Contaminated Crow was able to give contact details for 48 groups. Cork had 9 groups, Dublin had 16. And most of these were very active, with their own leaflets, newsletters, pickets of ESB offices.
Big free festivals were held at Carnsore in 1979, 1980 and 1981, which saw around 5,000 camping on the site. Three or four days of discussions, workshops and entertainment from artists as varied as Christy Moore and Chris De Burgh. (yes, it was a very broad movement!).
Throughout all this there was no leader or central committee who the government could negotiate with, flatter or buy off. There was nothing we wanted to bargain about, everyone was agreed that we wanted no nuclear power in Ireland, full stop.
Local groups were completely independent and every three months or so one of them would host a national gathering where anyone could come along, share experiences, throw out ideas, appeal for help, make suggestions, and propose initiatives.
According to every single one of the polls done at the time there was a large majority against going ahead with construction at Carnsore. But the government was determined to press ahead, taking as much notice as they usually do of people's wishes.
A sop thrown out was that they would set up an inquiry to investigate all the pros and cons. The more conservative sections of the movement, gathered around Friends of the Earth agreed to take part. The majority refused, saying they had no confidence in any enquiry set up and financed by the government, and whose findings could be ignored even if the inquiry team somehow bit the hand that fed them and recommended against nuclear power.
When the government saw that almost all anti-nuclear activists were not going to be suckered into passively making submissions and then sitting at home hoping for a good result, the idea of an enquiry was quietly dropped.
The anarchists and sections of the left had, instead, called within the unions for blacking the job, and for a mass occupation of the site if construction started. This idea won massive support and led Dessie O'Malley to treat us to a semi-hysterical outburst where he warned that he would use the army if necessary to remove what he called "20,000 hippies".
With major opposition all over the island and several thousand determined to physically stop any building work, the Carnsore plan was quietly dropped. There was no big announcement, But those of us who participated in the anti-nuke movement knew what we had achieved, and so did the state. That's why they have waited 25 years reopen the issue. We beat them once, we can do it again.
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Comments (21 of 21)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21Good on Ireland for keeping out nuclear power stations... but how gutting that the Irish Sea is so full of British nuclear waste, and how little is being done to clean it up.
For an account of the Irish anti-nuclear movement based on a research thesis see: The Irish antinuclear movement, by Simon Dalby (Dawn train pamphlet 1984). It might be accessed at the Innate nonviolence website.
Because quite simply we have too many Homer Simpson types in charge of dangerous things,Many Wailon Smythers protecting the Montgomery Burns types in Industry and politics.
Supported by Cheif Wiggums in charge of the Keystone Cops
.Would anyone sane want THAT shower in charge of a nucelar industry???
We would proably have blown it up at Carnsore point a decade before the Russians did in Cherynobl did and not because of a major design fault,more because of corner cutting and shoddy workmanship.
So instead we built a nice safe coal burning station at Money point and kill off the country with acid rain and dioxin.
Moneypoint is running a while, and the country aint quite kilt off.
I'd imagine the Japanese might settle for a little acid rain, rather than the nuclear disinformation flowing from their taps.
And it aint finished yet. That improvised coolant seawater is getting pumped offshore and spreading, while the results of high-temperature saltwater on the reactor cores has yet to kick in. Highly corrosive.
I'll trust homo stupidus with nuclear energy when he puts down his nuclear tommahawks. He's just rehearsing in Libya at the minit. Both Iran and China are on the menu. Major barbie. Any chance we can rectify the coal and oil pollution fades beside keeping the NATO fingers off their nukey buzzers. The civilian nuclear industry was initiated to justify the pentagonal weapons feedstock. Its hard for dinosaurs to back out of cul-de-sacs.
The grassroots nuclear power opposition took shape during the cold war when the world was under threat by nuclear war and climate change was not the looming giant it is today. The arguments against nuclear however have not really been evaluated since then and the public in Ireland and elsewhere should take another look at the prospects of nuclear. Check out the link for a look at the actual science and statistics behind Fukushima fallout.
There is a renewed drive to gloss over Fukushima and minimise the public's perception of the gravity of the event. Witness the latest episode of horizon on the BBC which could have been scripted by BNFL.
The fact is it has damaged the entire food chain.
would you eat food containing particles of caesium which might remain in your body for years spitting out high energy particles in close proximity to your cells, any one of which might cause the delicate cell suicide mechanism to be damaged in a cell causing it to reproduce out of control.
"I'd imagine the Japanese might settle for a little acid rain, rather than the nuclear disinformation flowing from their taps.
And it aint finished yet. That improvised coolant seawater is getting pumped offshore and spreading, while the results of high-temperature saltwater on the reactor cores has yet to kick in. Highly corrosive."
Your point being??? IF we had this in Ireland ,this would have been Carnsore point 197..
And we would have been gulliable enough to swallow it too..
"I'll trust homo stupidus with nuclear energy when he puts down his nuclear tommahawks. He's just rehearsing in Libya at the minit. Both Iran and China are on the menu. Major barbie. Any chance we can rectify the coal and oil pollution fades beside keeping the NATO fingers off their nukey buzzers. The civilian nuclear industry was initiated to justify the pentagonal weapons feedstock. Its hard for dinosaurs to back out of cul-de-sacs."
And off to never never land we go!!!Opus ,you do yourself no favours by bringing in all this conspircy theory NWO bullshit into the discussion.We are discussing why Ireland didnt get nuke power,not what the next world crisis is going to be,if any of that crazy nature.
That civil nuclear advocates trace their origins back to the weapons industry and its sales efforts to justify expansion after Nagasaki and Hiroshima by ensuring their program got top priority(Eisenhower's military/industrial anti-democratic stealth encroachment, now accompli). They needed a beneficial fleece to mask the lupine stalk.
Conspiracy theory??Well now Shadow, are you naive enough to think corporate paragons are morally incapable of conspiring to achieve their lucrative ends??Conspirators, our species has never been short of.
I would be prepared to countenance civil nuclear power consideration if there was a serious attempt to ban all nuclear weapons and dismantle the stockpiles. Till then I wont even entertain the possibility, any more than I'd give a sawn-off shotgun to an infant.
I hope that clarifies my point.
More Irish people died of drink last year than ever died of Nuke power.
More Irish died of cigarettes...
...and car accidents...
and.. and... something.
Something will kill us all.
Anti-Nukes are hysterical and anti-industrial.
Sadly, sometimes a mine collapses when brave men do hard work.
As with spacecraft.
"More Irish died of cigarettes..."
Shot yourself in the foot with that argument!
Apparently one of the major causes of lung cancer from cigarette smoking is actually.......nuclear RADIATION
very high localised doses of radiation in the lungs from radioactive Polonium-210 and radioactive Lead-210 lead to problems
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/sources/tobacco.html
Thats an argument, if anything, proving the obvious dangers of regular exposure to radiation.
Everyone knows somebody who has died of lung cancer from inhaling cigarette smoke containing radioactive particles.
"That civil nuclear advocates trace their origins back to the weapons industry and its sales efforts to justify expansion after Nagasaki and Hiroshima by ensuring their program got top priority(Eisenhower's military/industrial anti-democratic stealth encroachment, now accompli). They needed a beneficial fleece to mask the lupine stalk."
From what I gather you are trying to say that the Cold war was just because Eisenhower wanted more nukes...??And Stalin and Co didnt??[BTW it was Trumann who was president around that time].Doubt very much that there was much pushing needed either,Nuke power in the late 40s early 50s was a very misunderstood underrated in its danger energy system.There were all sorts of ideas going from nuke powerd rocketships to nuke powerd cars.Even it was suggested that nuke energy would be so cheap that electricity would be literally free to everyone.
"Conspiracy theory??Well now Shadow, are you naive enough to think corporate paragons are morally incapable of conspiring to achieve their lucrative ends??Conspirators, our species has never been short of."
Nope! But unless there is some sort of concerete proof as to whatever current conspircy theory is going around,that is all they are ...theories! Be it there are alien bodies in Roswell,or that 911 was a US /Isreali plot.Or that the US is planning to invade iran or nuke China...Any proof of such that is verifiable would be highly welcome.
" would be prepared to countenance civil nuclear power consideration if there was a serious attempt to ban all nuclear weapons and dismantle the stockpiles."
Well good news on that front ! The Evill USA and Russia have been reducing their stockpiles ever since the 1980s,along with the delivery systems.Trouble is the genie is out of the bottle,you would have to be asking unstable places like N Korea,Iran,India, Pakistan,and Al Queida to play along with this...Also who will enforce and oversee this ban???
" Till then I wont even entertain the possibility, any more than I'd give a sawn-off shotgun to an infant."
indeed..However,I'd br more worried about muppets like the Irish Govt trying to run somthing like this,with our standards of saftey and accountability,an infant with a sawed off might be a safer option.
..but ya cant make them think.
Shadow thinks America and Europe are stable. Wants proof of intentions re Iran?The precedents of Afghan, Iraq, Pakistan, etc., and the long term interference across the globe from Latin America to Nam(they're here too, wakey wakey)cut no ice. Many warned these wars were brewing(wasn't it Jaque Delor got bhushed for mentioning the (pending still, at that stage)war?The resouce wars of the 21st, which of course are not ha ha happening.
As foir Stalin, he initially tried to make a post-war UN work, but was disgusted by the UK/US/French duplicities and determined to prevent a re-run of the post 1917 invasions.
It wasn't Eisenhower, it was the Pentagon and nuclear industry wanted escalation. The US has just renewed much of its ageing arsenal(Scientific American, November 2007).
Tell me Israel is stable while you're at it, and why not that its arsenal has helped stabilise the region. Were you sleeping through the noise about the re-entry of nuclear space debris not so long back?Submarines have used reactor power for how long?The technology is, like a lot of others, working constantly on downscaling and diversifying (hence the depleted apps, its all about new markets). As for that free power, thats standard marketing hype again, we got the same Madison Ave flannel from the ESB originally to fund electrification, which now is surcharged to the hilt for revenue extraction from a captive consumer market.
Half the reason for the current proliferation is as insurance against the West's monopolisation drive. Pakistan is probably the most dangerous loose cannon, but has been tiptoed round by NATO for strategic expedience.
Who will enforce?It should be the IAEA, but they've been subducted, like the UN itself, into the Project for a New American Century so I'd say its back to the old fifties nuclear drill; find a sheltered corner, bring food and water, squat down into a corner, put your head between your knees, and kiss your arse goodbye.
Topic is:
Why Ireland never got nuclear power
[mod]
Mods..Thats one of the trouble with indymedia..People going off on total tangents,with a serious amount of "Blame the evil Americans for everything",and wacky conspircy theories.
Any back on topic..Ireland wont have nuke power or didnt have it simply because it was too dangerous and the people in charge too incompetant to look after it.END OF.
...it was too dangerous and the people in charge too incompetent to look after it. End of.'
Guillotine?Amen?
Glad you qualified that with 'simply'.
Simplistic?Superficial even. Incompetence is why it almost went through, plus a susceptibility to lobbying. It was public response to the dangers, and consequent mobilisations that stopped it. I trust thats on topic.
But then, in some universes corporations(particularly if linked to war industries)dont do conspiracies, but if they did...they would never deny it.
Scout's honour?And Chirac didn't conspire to sink the Rainbow Warrior?
'Wacky theory' that the only country to experiment on human populations with a mega-drop in Hiroshima and Nagasaki (though the french and brits exposed their own troops and civilians in tests in the Pacific and Woomera, as I'm sure others have)and is currently spreading depleted U across its imperial tracks into its wild east new frontier?Nice democratic Americans dont do such things, only nasty foreign types. Stick to the fiction, you'll get a prize yet.
Nuclear power, like its by-products, does not see national borders, except as slight details to be flouted. If you think you can contain and confine it to our four green fields without seeing the bigger context, guess who will appreciate your myopia?
You say Opus..You obviously have some great inside sources into the CIA,Pentagon,Kremlin and downing street to have all this brilliant inside info....SIGH!!
Now taking the incompetance points,Yes incompetance on both sides of the pro and anti nuke movement,and dont kid yourself that it was some massive "fight da power!" Irish peoples movement.Most of us back then were more worried about work ,emigration,Nireland,the EEC,and the friendly Russians with their peaceful nukes.
'Wacky theory' that the only country to experiment on human populations with a mega-drop in Hiroshima and Nagasaki (though the french and brits exposed their own troops and civilians in tests in the Pacific and Woomera, as I'm sure others have)and is currently spreading depleted U across its imperial tracks into its wild east new frontier?Nice democratic Americans dont do such things, only nasty foreign types. Stick to the fiction, you'll get a prize yet.
Sorry what has this got to do with Nuke power in Ireland?????
BTW lets not forget the nice friends of the workers ,the Soviets did this quite alot too in Siberia.
So dont be shy in naming them too...
But then, in some universes corporations(particularly if linked to war industries)dont do conspiracies, but if they did...they would never deny it.
Scout's honour?And Chirac didn't conspire to sink the Rainbow Warrior?
Again...revelance to Ireland????
Nuclear power, like its by-products, does not see national borders, except as slight details to be flouted. If you think you can contain and confine it to our four green fields without seeing the bigger context, guess who will appreciate your myopia?
Why do you ASSume I am pro nukepower?????
Just because I dont agree 100% with your line of very spurious"arguement" .Can you actually stick to the topic and stop trying to divert it off to somthing irrevelant like a Fianna Fail TD being sweated on Primetime??
I believe we live in/under the imperial/economic hegemony of the 'west'. I reckon western centripetal acquisitive imperial capitalism is the current danger, not the former soviet imperial project which has been reduced to a compliant oligarchy.
Western belligerence is spreading proliferation and war(must I list instances ?)and that includes aggressive promotion of nuclear power and weaponry, just as weaponry in general is a central factor in our present global economic set-up. The war economy was not stepped down after the soviet system imploded for the simple reason there are too many vested interests in its maintenance. I dont believe these problems can be solved behind some national screen.
Incompetence on both sides?Doh...only difference is I'm not threatening to sterilise their planet. My incompetence is inconsequential, theirs.....er,well. Besides, its less their proven incompetence than their proven corruption that bothers me.
Relevance to Ireland?That national border does not exclude us from the consequences of the likes of Chirac's actions. If you think we can retreat into our bubble and let them on with it the latest 'emergency' I think I'll leave you to it.
As for pro-nuclear power, I've already said I'm open to 'arguements' for its civil use, but not while its run by the current operators for the current operators and with only cynical use of the IAEA when it suits purpose. If you think these issues are unconnected to each other, work away. And if you think the Irish are any more incompetent than their EU/US models I can only believe you are succumbing to some racist/nationalist exceptionalism which mirrors the nationalist/imperial mirages resurgent since that wall came down in Berlin.
As stated, the topic is 'Why Ireland never got nuclear power...'. That involves the nuclear industry(extra-national actors)and if you think by looking beyond our insular borders i'm breakin the safe little cocoon of of the discussion, allow me suggest its yourself resembles some Fianna Fail blinkered green-to-the-gills never mind whats going through Shannon its not gonna get dropped on us. As for my ' ..inside info...' , I suggest you join your local library(its not classified, yet).
Oh, and I dont think the ad hominems add to your case. Isn't that diversionary?
O.D.:'Wacky theory' that the only country to experiment on human populations with a mega-drop in Hiroshima and Nagasaki (though the french and brits exposed their own troops and civilians in tests in the Pacific and Woomera, as I'm sure others have)and is currently spreading depleted U across its imperial tracks into its wild east new frontier?Nice democratic Americans dont do such things, only nasty foreign types. Stick to the fiction, you'll get a prize yet.
T.S.: Sorry what has this got to do with Nuke power in Ireland?????
BTW lets not forget the nice friends of the workers ,the Soviets did this quite alot too in Siberia.
So dont be shy in naming them too...
veering off topic but don't forget the Israelis and the "ringworm children" incident where 200,000 african immigrants were irradiated (for ringworm!) with equipment donated by the US. Thousands died.
Plenty of useful data gathered about radiation exposure there!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6118144849760405404
O.D.:"I believe we live in/under the imperial/economic hegemony of the 'west'. I reckon western centripetal acquisitive imperial capitalism is the current danger, not the former soviet imperial project which has been reduced to a compliant oligarchy.
Western belligerence is spreading proliferation and war(must I list instances ?)and that includes aggressive promotion of nuclear power and weaponry, just as weaponry in general is a central factor in our present global economic set-up. The war economy was not stepped down after the soviet system imploded for the simple reason there are too many vested interests in its maintenance. I dont believe these problems can be solved behind some national screen."
Can you put that in simple English please????Yes !!!List instances to prove your "points" Because I,and no doubt many others havent a clue what you are trying to say any more.. I assume you are saying the West as perusual is the cause of all the root problems of global peace..You obviously havent read up on who else is still one of the mass weapons exporters apart from the USA,Yup Russia and China.So to suggest when the soviet Union imploded that weapon production stopped on their side is atotal fallacy!
O.D.:"Relevance to Ireland?That national border does not exclude us from the consequences of the likes of Chirac's actions. If you think we can retreat into our bubble and let them on with it the latest 'emergency' I think I'll leave you to it. "
What in the name of God are you talking about?????What actions of Chirac????????What revelance is an ex French prime ministers actions got to do with this.I'd be more worried about the current one buggering us up than any nuke power plant in wherever.
O.D.:"As for pro-nuclear power, I've already said I'm open to 'arguements' for its civil use, but not while its run by the current operators for the current operators and with only cynical use of the IAEA when it suits purpose. If you think these issues are unconnected to each other, work away. And if you think the Irish are any more incompetent than their EU/US models I can only believe you are succumbing to some racist/nationalist exceptionalism which mirrors the nationalist/imperial mirages resurgent since that wall came down in Berlin."
Well guess what??thats what is there you have to work with it.Unless you are going to tool up the IAEA as some sort of armed unit under the world fascist organisation of the UN...Ooopss sorry,it does belong to that Fascist operation,but fortunatly is toothlessand all the better to stay that way with its new world order plans.
Ah Yes!! The good ol Rascisim cared is being played yet again!!!Yes I think as a race we are thick,stupid, pig ignorant ,blow hard ,sanctimonious hyprocritical,bog men who couldnt be trusted with a nucelar power plant ,or an economy or a country or anything dangerous for a matter of fact.Because we have no respect for its power,its dangers,or a clue how to behave and work in the real world.You alluded to giving a baby a sawn off shotgun once.Thats exactly how we are as a society .Want all the power and no responsibility for our actions on a individual or national level.
So the thought of us trying to run a nuke power plant fills me with dread.IF it had been built Carnsore point would have predated Chernoybl by at least 20 years.
O.D.:"As stated, the topic is 'Why Ireland never got nuclear power...'. That involves the nuclear industry(extra-national actors)and if you think by looking beyond our insular borders i'm breakin the safe little cocoon of of the discussion, allow me suggest its yourself resembles some Fianna Fail blinkered green-to-the-gills never mind whats going through Shannon its not gonna get dropped on us. As for my ' ..inside info...' , I suggest you join your local library(its not classified, yet)."
Sorry the discussion is about why we never got nuke power,not the empircal war mongering or otherwise designs of the West or other strawmen that you seem to want to use to avoid the topic.
As for what you are reading in the libary,Id suggest giving the science fiction,alternative history,and fantasy conspircy section abit of a miss.You do need to have a look at possibly some right wing news media to balance the ol leftist leaning too.
The internet is pretty good too,much faster..
Well you certainly argue like a Finna Failer.Use descriptions of an earth inverting horticultural impliment,when saying a Spade would do fine.Lay off the strawmen,and use the factual points of revelance outside Ireland,not some nonsensical fantasy about how having a pissant reactor in bogland Ireland is a percusor to us owning nukes here.
YAWN...Shannon...who gives a fuck!!Oh yeah,no doubt DUand nukes have gone thru there as wellYeah long may it continue Shannon warport,because Dublin is strangling it commercially to pay for another brilliant Irish idea Terminal 2!!
O.D.:"Oh, and I dont think the ad hominems add to your case. Isn't that diversionary?"
Proably not,but using high falutent terms when commmon simple langauge would do fine as well is another diversionary tactic.
Good job then we didnt have Carnsore point then.No doubt we with our industrial schools and other concentration camps would have proably flogged off those misfortunates to some experimentation with radiation,as we did with the kids in the 1960s to international drug companies.
Never let ethics get in front of an Irishman in his quest for profit.
' Shannon..Who gives a fuck...'
Ta for dropping the mask. '...stupid, thick, pig ignorant, blow hard, sanctimonious hypocritical bog men...'
No need to be so hard on yourself.
Oh, and thanks for informing us amidst all the steam that it was simple incompetence stopped Carnsore. For someone fixated on my shortcomings as to addressing the topic, you seem inordinately incapable of concentrating on your own elucidation. Terminal 2?
No doubt when your extrastellar competence gets its way we can relax and kick start our own depleted U munitions enterprise. by the way, if you're going to concentrate on snide asides re spelling, I suggest you check your own orthography(look it up)occasionally.