Students Against Climate Change demo

by Dave C Tue Apr 17, 2007 18:33

Hi folks Students Against Climate Change have a new online forum where debates like this can happen. You can continue it on the newswire of course, but I recommend that in order for people involved in the group (which everyone is welcome to get involved in) to hear what you say, join the email group at http://groups.google.com/group/studentsagainstclimatechange

Personally i think there's nothing wrong with political banners at the march. Both labour and the greens were supportive of our event, so they were not "hijacking" it as some people have suggested. This is an issue that affects us all, so any group that wants to help this cause is welcome as far as I'm concerned. We cant start "policing" our events anyway so even if we didnt want political banners there's nothing we could do. If people from a political group support the campaign then they have a right to express this support. I dont think we should worry too much about how it may be spun, if we start doing that then we wont be able to do anything.

All the bestest,

Dave Curran.
UCDSU

by . Tue Apr 17, 2007 16:57

Forgive my comments if you are visually impared but the biggest banner at the march was the one hoisted by the Green Party,. Attitudes like that will ensure this campaign never gets off the ground.

by Jane Tue Apr 17, 2007 14:21

The moment people start dictating their own actions on the basis of what bloody David McWilliams might think is the moment we really are all fucked in the water.

by Ian Tue Apr 17, 2007 00:34

Jane you misunderstand. I am quite happy to have Labour on the cause, indeed I hope to see them in the next government. I also am grateful for the work put in by LY and have no problem with you showing yourselves. I only dispute the size of the banners, and not for my benefit, but for the image of our protests.

I maintain that displaying huge red banners does not aid our cause because it distracts from the issue at hand, instead directing attention to the colour, which may imply to many members of the public that it is just some other lefty student protest like so many before. I.e. it may as well be anti-war, anti-Shell, anti-Israel, etc.

It does not emphasis the importance or uniqueness of this issue, and it hands ammo to writers of malicious intent (e.g. David McWilliams) to brand us all as far left or some other nonsense.

by Jane - Labour Youth Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:10

Ian's comments are typical of those with such a skewed view of the world that they insist on seeing banners as an attempt to hijack a march rather than an attempt to show support.

From what I understand, LY were criticised by prominent members of the campaign after the march for being at the protest with the banners but for only having two representatives at the meeting afterwards.

1. A substantial number of us did hang around after the march for the meeting - however, as I'm sure you're all aware, it didn't start for over an hour after the march had ended. I know I speak for myself and many others when I say that due to impending finals and essays, I just don't have the time to wait around for that long. However, we did say to Dave Curran as we left that he should keep us informed of future events.

2. The myth that all LY did in relation to the protest was turn up with our banners - propogated at this meeting- is a complete fallacy. I spent last Saturday postering all over town and along the Green Luas line for this protest - and incidentally, every single backing board used to poster in town, plus the materials used to put them up, were provided free of charge by Labour Youth. Other members also helped flyer shops around the Temple Bar area, and our National Campaigns Officer sent a text out to every single member we have in Dublin asking them to come and support the protest.

3. To repeat what an earlier poster said - there were Green Party banners and leaflets as well - why is nobody accusing them of trying to hijack the march for "socialism" or any other "ism"? Fact of the matter is - when protests are called, groups who support the aims of the protest will come, and to show support, they will bring their banners to identify themselves. It's like the Coke boycott, lads - what's more effective, saying that 200 members of the public supported the protest, or saying that 200 members of the public, among them official representatives from many political parties, NGOs and environmental groups supported the protest? It's hardly our fault that the parties in government and other parties chose not to publically show their support. But it's not as if we would have stopped them if they had.

To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed with the reaction of people to our attempts to show support and help out with what is a worthy endeavour. But if you really want to push people away from your cause for silly reasons and lies, then I suppose there's nothing I can do about it.

by Topper Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:53

"As environmentalists, we don't need to embrace socialism. Doing so is impractical and alienates centrists and those on the right with environmentalist sympathies."

Well Ian, I think you'd probably agree that the alarming facts about global warming and other environmental dangers are well established by now. The recent report by a panel of international scientists, Al Gore's documentary film etc. have hammered home the message (and they're just repeating arguments that I've heard put across in the media since I was in primary school - everything that's happened since, all the evidence that's come in, has added to the force of those arguments).

So you'd think, if it was likely that "centrists and those on the right with environmentalist sympathies" will take effective action, surely the sight of a Labour Youth banner on a demo wouldn't be enough to deter them from doing so? Taking that argument to its logical conclusion, why did Eamon Ryan and Eamon Gilmore both speak at the march - surely that might alienate Fianna Fail from the cause?

People on the Left believe that free-market conservatives are incapable of taking action against climate change, and any steps they do take will be the result of massive pressure from below. You may not agree with this analysis, but the years of foot-dragging by all the relevant decision-makers, in the face of all the evidence that global warming is already happening and is likely to have disastrous effects, would seem like powerful evidence in its favour, to me anyway.

At any rate, I think Labour Youth were perfectly entitled to fly their flag at this demo, and any other left group would be equally entitled to do so. Why aren't you attacking the Green Party, who had a big banner and distributed flyers at the march? By your logic, they are alienating people from taking action over climate change.

You can't take the politics out of environmentalism, when it requires political action to do anything effective.

by Ian - NCAD Environmental Committee Mon Apr 16, 2007 00:13

No thanks, guys. As environmentalists, we don't need to embrace socialism. Doing so is impractical and alienates centrists and those on the right with environmentalist sympathies.

I was on my bike, in this protest. I did not agree with the hoisting of the huge red Labour Youth banners, is it really of any help to anyone to make this look like just another lefty protest to the public? This issue is too important for such partisanship.

by Dub Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:13

The earlier post be "Supporter" sums up what is wrong in the Environmentalist movement. "Supporter" is typical of the middle class sorts with shares, SSIAs and 20k in the bank that encourage us all to "buy local" and "trade fair" and "buy expensive food". In his posting he balmes individuals for crap food. How the hell can ordinary people really have a say over thier food?? Food is made and marketed by big business capitalists. Consumers and farmers are dictated to by big business. Furthermore "good" food is more expensive. You are happy to blame ordinary people on a tight budget and with little free time for climate change. "Supporter" then goes on to say that consumers spending habits are contributing to unfair trade!! How dare you paint the crimes of capitalism on working class people? What do you propose? Do you want people not to eat, drink, wear clothes or take transport? Do you not blame the big businesses that are exploiting workers in Asia/Africa/etc? Surely they are to blame! Ordinary working people in Ireland are not to blame for Climate Change, "Unfair" trade & exploitation. Capitalism is to blame. You won't end that with Farmers' Markets!

by Dub Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:02

It's good to see the Student Movement dealing with a real political issue and not hiding behid "not a student matter" crap. I hope these officers that are hopping on this "sexy" issue will begin to fight on other political issues. But not a mention of Nationalisation of Industry as the only way to solve Climate Crisis. The Green Party and the milieu around their politics-lite style are not the best environmentalists. They are only interested in saying they made a stand and it was all the nasty individuals that did not turn off their lightbulbs and didn't make compost that are to blame. WAKE UP! Most emmissions come from Big Business and they churn out CO2 as they are making profits doing so. Car drivers are not to blame- the car industry is to blame. Householders are not to blame - construction industry and energy firms are to blame. We need to end the Profit motive. We need to take over these large firms and run them in the interests of the Environment and the People of the world. Not a single Green Party person or Labour Party person has called for this. They will go into Government and not make any serious difference as they will not nationalise the big industries.

by Well Done! Sat Apr 14, 2007 09:05

It was great to see the interest. I would really appreciate if the students would follow the EPA Oral Hearing on the Mayo/ Bellanaboy
Refinery beginning in Monday 16 April dealing with the emissions permission being sought by Shell. These emissions have not started yet. Can you help stop the government supporting pollutant business which is private. Two - faced approach - weeping about carbon emissions and allowing carbon business go ahead. As University students trained to critical inquiry it would be your responsibility to point out lack of coherence with factsand figures.It would be a real help to this society.

by Scully Fri Apr 13, 2007 23:56

Fair play for taking action I hope yis continue the fight. I hope yis continue the fight. better to do something than nothing.

by Supporter Fri Apr 13, 2007 20:03

They vote themselves huge pay-packets.
Eamon Gilmore has a massive beer belly.

Eamon Ryan is Gonzaga -educated and an acceptable green face in Irish Society.
They are both up for election.

Climate change needs radical action In Ireland, like people with clipboards
going into supermarkets and asking Irish people why they eat so much shite.
where the shite comes from- the middle classes who invest in specific dietary
issues tend to eat imported food that involves planes. (carbon footprints)

encouraging farmers markets.
discouraging abusers such as Aldi/Lidl/Tesco/
encouraging buying Irish.
discouraging the people who are buying properties in EU accession states.
discouraging people from buying housing in the middle of green field areas thus having to buy
cars and relying on petrol stations.

Irish people do not look honestly at how their spending habits are contributing to
problems, include unfair trade, unfair property market speculation, unfair and
unecological tourist practices. The minuscule problem with Irelands carbon
footprint alluded to by the last commentator does not recognise that the
consumption problem in Ireland and the overflow of cash has led to other EU
and global problems.

by Reality Please Fri Apr 13, 2007 18:22

The fact is that that China is opening a new coal fired power station every single week. Scores of Chinese cities have mushroomed with skyscrapers, factories and traffic choked streets as tens of millions of Chinese year after year are begining to approach Western standards of living and consumption.
India is not far behind.

Fair play for highlighting global warming to the Irish public but Ireland's carbon footprint is practically irrelevant.

There are more than 6 BILLION people in the world and unless there is a gigantic asteroid collision or a plague the population is simply goinging to grow exponentially decade upon decade.

Those billions are going to make increasing demands on the environment because they will want airconditioning, electrical household appliances, cars, air travel, manufactured consumer goods etc etc.

I am afraid it is too late.

If the environmentalists are right and the world will simply be unable to support these billions of people in the future then humanity will suffer catastrophy.

Whatever any of us do will make no practical difference anyway.

by Mick Fri Apr 13, 2007 16:17

There was an open mic at the end of the demo - with two invited speakers from the Greens and Labour kicking off the speeches. The demo was followed by a meeting called to plan further steps in the campaign

Trinity College Labour

Arriving at the Custom House

Eamon Ryan T.D. - Green Party

Eamon Gilmore - Labour

Human Tree