Anti Authoritarian Assembly

by sexual violence?? Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:55

hasnt the topic of sexual violence been discussed already? isnt there an organisation (RAG) that deals with that already? i thought the AAA space was intended to be an open space for libertarians to discuss what projects they are involved in... and point towards some co-ordianting mechanism to link these struggles, it seems to have evolved into a talking shop for punks

by neh Tue Dec 05, 2006 18:53

Who is organising this AAA

Rag isn't a organisation that is supposed to deal with sexual violence on behalf of the rest of us. It is an issue that concerns us all.

That said i have to agree with this "it seems to have evolved into a talking shop for punks".

"We have put together a basic agenda hoping to facilitate a discussion that will briefly consider the woeful legal system, dispel a few myths about sexual violence, discover a few realities and explore possible personal and community responses to sexual violence"

Been there, done that, felt right on, nothing changed

by matt Tue Dec 05, 2006 19:24

Sorry was a bit unclear on that but it had been a long day....Four of us volunteered after the last AAA to organise the day after it was voted that this AAA would deal with the issue.
Obviously this has been discussed in the past and probably not much has changed which is why it's important people come along and start discussing real ideas about how it can be dealt with in the groups and struggles we are involved in and practical steps we could take. It is not an issue that should be left up to RAG on their own to solve and it is something we can all do something about. This AAA is not intended to be a mere "talking shop" but even talking about sexual violence is something most people will go to great lengths to avoid.
Whether it makes any real changes will depend on who and how many show up. The more who attend the more practical it can be.

by leftcommie Tue Dec 05, 2006 22:59

The assembly was useful following the merger of dissent and grassroots but it's current incarnation is a bad joke. It doesnt know what it's function is anymore and few groups bother send delegates anymore. Talking about sexual violence for the millionth time in a dingey cold room and eating vegan spew afterwards is not fun or radical. Thats why nobody shows up anymore let it die kids.

by contrari-ragster - personal capacity Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:54

just for the record - RAG certainly wasn't set up as organisation to deal with sexual violence.
And it would be a very sad state of affairs if that is the way the group is perceived.

leftcommie:- it's unfortunate that you may have to sit in a room neither furnished, catered nor heated to your own high standards to discuss this issue (maybe it can happen in your gaf instead) but it is not going to get dealt with unless people sit down and talk a million times or more if necessary, realising sexual assault happens too often to too many people and as a supposed community 'we' need to address it.

by Chris M Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:53

The issues are almost completely ignored in the press and in the Dail.

and I liked the magazine too.

Two women had to travel from Sligo to dublin for treatment in the Rotunda sexual assault
unit because all units in the North-west have been closed at weekends.
This has evidentiary implications as well as a complete lack of care including trauma,
counselling and emergency doctors in the regions. The Rotunda is stretched to the
limit and the DRCC has complained about these issues without any political party
taking them on- There is a need to know. there is a need to lobby.

http://www.drcc.ie

by Ragster Wed Dec 06, 2006 16:29

The only thing RAG has ever had to do with sexual assault is that one of our members wrote an article about it and we ran a women's day school on the topic.
We are not a service. You cant pawn the issue off on us and sit cozily at home. You want to leave this topic to discuss again when another assault happens? Because that's too late.
Why would you think women would have to be the ones to deal with the issue alone?

I think it's great it's coming up again in a mixed group without the emotion and stress of having an actual incident to talk about. Well dont to the organisers.

And this rubbish about the punks... You've obviously never been to seomra spraoi, looked at the events calender or had anything to do with the place. There are about 10 punks out of the 150+ people who participate in and organise events there. If it wasn't for the ones who come to eat at the fantastic cafe food on sundays there would have a lot more difficulty paying the rent.

If you're going to complain about the room, you can set up a standing order, info on the website www.seomraspraoi.org and maybe we will be able to afford to rent someplace more luxurious to cater for those with expensive tastes.

by lefty Wed Dec 06, 2006 17:27

i have to agree that i cant believe its the topic of sexual violence again, we have all been there done that and bought the feckin revolutionary womens t- shirts, seriously, AAA is a joke, i have been involved in Grassroots , dissent etc and at this stage i would sooner get involved in my local parish centre as they do more effectiev organising.

AAA is a talking shop and the fact that this topic is up for discussion again highlights that the so called loose network of libertarians is radically cut off from soicety.

Get organised!

by lefty Wed Dec 06, 2006 17:47

response to ragster

"and as a supposed community 'we' need to address it" (sexual violence)

what community are we as activists meant to be? it is precisely this type of mentality that has lead to the current impasse in libertarian circles. what we ought to be building is a participatory movment towrds a radical democratisation of society. We are a community of people who ought to be active in our commmunity/ workplace etc and not an ' activist community' that looks inwards at our own informal group dynamic.

Equally, on top of that, i must admit, despite my anarcho dispostions , if a serious incident of sexual violence occured i would use the legal means available as opposed to setting up some kangaroo tribunal as i feel it would more likely produce the truth. (but this is just my own opinion)

However, my main point is that we are not a community and if we wish to be anything it is a structured engaged political organisation that has clear and accountable structures with a clear objective as to how

a) we organise
b) how we engage politically
c) how we achieve our clear democratic principles in all domains of life: culture, family, economy, administratively, and environmentally

Until we get up off our arse and get organised around these issues and stop getting caught up in what seems to be an obsession with dealing with sexual violence with ' our community' we are going no-where. and to pre-empt my critics , sexual violence is a serious issue and needs to be recognised but it is not how we are going to engage the wider community to participate in mass progressive social change, and this is the only thing that will remove sexual violence from our socities.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker Wed Dec 06, 2006 18:23

Apologies, not going to make this one as have another anti-war organising meeting that day. maybe more advanced notice would have helped not to doublebook.

The last AAA meeting I was at was vibrant. From memory, 25+ libertarians with reports (and networking) from RAG, activists in Rossport, RAR, group organising Killer Coke action at the Compromise Rules Game, group organsing Car Free Day, CW (primarily anti-war nvda report), Revolt Video, group from Manooth campus, the fortnightly punk gig collective, guy with bike repair idea, Seoma collective.

In terms of the accusation that it is merely a "talking shop".....
"After all is said and done, more is said than done!"...and that might be a good thing. Better activism comes out of reflection, discussion, clarification.. And most present appreciated the value of face to face communication over internet. Mutual aid was offered to various campaigns and collectives and people could ask clarifying questions.

I guess I saw AAA as primarily a delegate networking meeting for the anarcho libertarian movement in Dublin, the presentation suggestion was to be a brief intro. I still think it is a good thing, but obviously not a primary activist group. I think at the first meeting there was attempts to clarify a program, which I really wasn't into.

Need to set the next meeting at the end of the meeting just had, keep it simple etc

by Ciaran - Seomra Spraoi -personal capacity so to speak Wed Dec 06, 2006 19:46

Hi

here's the reason that it was decided at the last AAA (by those who were there...question time: whywould those who think AAA is crap now and never go CARE what people who do go use it for? answers on a post card please) that the next AAA could, as a break from standard practice and to play about a little with the pupose and format of AAA, look at a specific issue..this time Sexual Violence, as it sits at both a state/legal level, and as understood (and maybe dealt with.....although lets be realistic for the moment getting Irish people talking about this regularly seems a unsurmountable issue in the first place) by a range of people who are involved in actvist camaigns, groups, camps, demo's etc.(in other wise form part of a social netwrk or entaglement that is part of ever greater entanglements etc etc.) :

"hasnt the topic of sexual violence been discussed already? isnt there an organisation (RAG) that deals with that already?"
good old anonymous, yeah leave it to the women to sort that out! and sure didn't we give them they're day about it all already, now back to the serious stuff!

RAG is an anarcho-feminist publishing group and collective, who have at time focused some attention on sexual violence, but dealing with it on your behalf (on anyone elses) is not their remit.

then this classic complaint..."it seems to have evolved into a talking shop.."

again this runs very well with..."hasnt the topic of sexual violence been discussed already?"
its HAS been discussed already, and....whats happened...? , whats happened..?, anyone..?, anyone...? (imagine the voice of the teacher in Ferris Bueller here talking to the disinterested adolescents)
so basically if something is discussed once or twice, it doesn't matter if nothing is done as..well I don't need to point out the hilarious talking shop contradiction there.

And much of this gets replicated by others, but its much the same arguement

"i have to agree that i cant believe its the topic of sexual violence again, we have all been there done that and bought the feckin revolutionary womens t- shirts"

again womens issue...again we discussed it so stop bothering us.....lots has been done!

imagine, as a slightly related if clumsy analogy, if you were publicising a second protest on any issue you care about that was as yet unresolved and were met by ...hey we already discussed this, you got your protest, you got an article on indymedia already, so feck off, issue X here I'm interested in is far more important.

If Anarchists (or others of leftist political persuasions attempting to dismantel basic assumptions of our current society) think delegating issues (say sexual violence to pick an example out of the air) as only dealable by a percieved interest groups ( say..I don't know..a feminist group say) and not "outside agitators" (every person on this planet for whom sex(granted maybe not some internet activists) or violence has ever touched on there lives), or

that once an issue has been discussed to an appropriate level decided by an artificially appointed body (ie them), attempting to yield discretion over anothers ability or desire to discuss the issue further, that it should be left behind for issues more important (with importance being decided of course, by them the artificially appointed body), then

WE ARE FUCKED !!!!!!! (no pun intended)

Time for parliamentary politics I reckon, or the parish council (actually i think more activists maybe should try get on such local committies.... but thats another issue for other day, actually its been discussed already hasn't it so that closes that debate! phew!)

by Ciaran - Seomra Spraoi Thu Dec 07, 2006 16:16 seomraspraoievents at gmail dot com

Sorry to report but due to a sudden and unexpected bereavement, it has been decided to postpone this special AAA until January the 7th or 14th.

This will allow as well, perhaps, for some debate around the issue (and the necessity/ or lack of, to dicuss it) in the run up to the day.

Also opens up December 17th for a possible AAA of the more regular sort, giving activist groups a chance to exchange thoughts and experiences before the end of the year. If anyone wants to organise this, please contact Seomra Spraoi as we'd be glad to host it.

We hope you understand and can trust in our need to cancel at such short notice. Please pass on this information to anyone who may have planned attending

-Ciaran

by dk Sat Dec 09, 2006 21:08

the reality is a little more complicated than that. due to this and other unforeseeable reasons (illness and other commitments) half of the facilitators/organisers are not able to make it.

looks like there has to be a little more debate as to why people should bother showing up to this event anyway so maybe the delay is not such a bad thing. criticism is easy but at least come to the event, articulate your ideas, be open to new/different ones, and judge the merits of it after the fact.

by jack white - wsm Sun Dec 10, 2006 06:54

I doubt left commie or lefty have ever been involved in grassroots type stuff. They're just spreading shite. Ignore them.

by lefty Sun Dec 10, 2006 15:15

in fairness jack white... i am very involved and i think my comments are constructive unlike leftcommie, maybe you should read what i have to say. My poinys are still vaild, and yours purely condesending. I am happy to engage in a full debate and discussion about the problems with left libertariansim in Dublin, where you are probably happy to ignore them and pretend that they dont exist.

Left libertarianism in dublin is inactive , unorganised, unengaged and politcally impotent and as my comments say, i am talking about the loose network of unalligned left libertarians, not wsm etc.

I am saying that to move beyond this we need to recognise this and work beyond it.

by w. - wsm Sun Dec 10, 2006 16:34

"Left libertarianism in dublin is inactive , unorganised, unengaged and politcally impotent and as my comments say, i am talking about the loose network of unalligned left libertarians, not wsm etc."

WSM are a big part of left libertarianism in Dublin so you can't have one without the other. To say it's inactive is just completely wrong what about the role libertarians are playing in S2S, IWU, AWI and various other ongoing struggles. Not to mention the rise in people joining the WSM. Maybe you're focussing on one specific building as the libertarian community a bit too much.

by libertarian Sun Dec 10, 2006 21:21

i think the point being made is a valid one by lefty and ought not be brushed aside like some people (Jack White) are trying to do. A lot of people involved in Libertarian circles are unhappy with the lack of coherent collective organisation outside the WSM. There has been many informal discussions about trying to develop a structured political organisation for unalligned libertarians to work within. The AAA simply does not provde that basis.

It is easy for a WSM member to view the level of individual activity by libertarians (shell to sea etc) as positive because they are acting as an organised unit but for those outside wsm with a desire to organsie collectively things do not look so positive. It is demoralising to go from campaign to campaign as an individual with little or no sense of 'building' a wider movement.

Thus, the options for those thinking along those lines are to either join the WSM or some other organisation. But for those who do not want to do either of these things, will end up viewing the libertarian left as unorganised, disengaged etc and this is where the obvious discontent being portrayed on these pages is emerging.

We as organsied libertarians ought to be trying to engage with the ideas coming forward and not brushing them aside as irrelevant. Thus, the central point that an organised libertarian left organisation is required to push the libertarian agenda within left activity ought to be taken seriously if people feel that it does not exist, and to be honest, i agree, that it does not currently exist in a structured organised format.

by w. - wsm Sun Dec 10, 2006 22:04

I'd agree with most of the above to the extent that I joined the WSM out of frustration with the disorganised libertarian left and the feeling that you have to from scratch every time you want to do something. The criticism levelled in this thread towards the AAA are valid (although even the WSM recently held a sexual violence dayschool, it is a topic that has to be discussed) but the libertarian scene is not so big that people couldn't use their real names or even use the AAA as a tribune to raise their concerns.

While there is a need for better organisation in the libertarian community I would also recognise that there are people who don't see that as a concern and merely want an alternative community to do "nice things" like vegan knitting circles etc., I think it's important to root out the people you have common interests with and organise with them.

by Ois - WSM Mon Dec 11, 2006 00:11

Are just shit stirrers. I mean I don't mean to play myself up as all knowing but I've never heard anyone on the libertarian left come out with the stuff being said on this thread. And seeing as I'm one of the few people in dublin that's into left communism I can't imagine someone holding these views who I wouldn't know.

If you are not simply shit stirring post under your real name.

And for anyone reading no WSM activists hold the views of lefty and left-commie.

by libertarian Mon Dec 11, 2006 00:45

" I think it's important to root out the people you have common interests with and organise with them"

I agree entirely W,

Ois, how can you possibly presume people are not talking about these issues or trying to organise around them? If i am not mistaken some peple are currently trying to draw up a proposal to replace AAA with some sort of structured political organisation.

And again, the points being raised are important and ought not to be simply ignored or devolved into petty bickering.

It is simple, people are unhappy with how the wider libertarian left is organised and feel something ought to be done about it. (I dont understand why people are taking offence to this)

Perhaps this can be taken as the substance of the thread?

by midnight reader Mon Dec 11, 2006 01:06

Sometimes people are here to stir shit, other times they prefer to remain anonymous, for whatever reasons, that's the thing with indymedia you have to judge what the rough/smooth is and take everything with a pinch of salt, but be prepared to listen too in case its real, the lines of reality get blurred in the comments... "in dymedia veritas" like drink talk - might be shite, might be deep truths.