Victory for the Rights of Children

by papa Mon Nov 20, 2006 00:43

mcdowell needs to start using his head to think not his anus. 17000 residencies were granted while a few hundreds who are still living with or taking care of their irish born child were refused based on very flimsy excuses. this man called himself a lawyer and he forgot that every application was signed or stamped either by a solicitor or the court, therefore making the applicant accept the terms and condtions of the residency. he rejected all these legal documents and is now going further to reject the ruling of a competent irish legal structure. he should now use his head and grant residency to this very few hundreds so that they can start contributing to the economy of the country. mcdowell should not throw stones while he is living in a glass house because he might be a victim of an irish child whose parents he wants to deport, these children needs the company of their parents to be morally and educationally sound.

by John Mon Nov 20, 2006 09:52

It simply shows how right Mr. McDowell was to push for the citizenship referendum in 2004 and how right the electorate were to vote 80 per cent in favour (despite the opposition of every left-wing group in the country). At the time of the referendum Mr. McDowell stated that the reason for it was that Ireland had an escalating problem of non-nationals coming to Ireland a few weeks before giving birth, thereby making a mockery or our citizenship laws. How he was ridiculed at the time by the Left. He was making it all up, they claimed. Now it turns out he was correct after all. If Mr. McDowell hadn't pushed for the said referendum, then Ireland would now have tens of thousands of non-nationals with no connection with Ireland, all claiming the right to live here, merely because they flew into Dublin airport and on to the Coombe hospital a fortnight before giving birth. Because of Mr. McDowell's foresight, the problem was nipped in the bud on 1 Jan 2005 and this court case is merely dealing with the remnants of the problem that date from before 1 Jan 2005. But, if you disagree with this analysis, I suggest you stand against Mr. McDowell in the coming election on a platform of restoring the citizenship laws in Ireland to what they were before 1 Jan 2005 and see how many votes you get.

by olutola Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:11 tolaosunnuga at yahoo dot co dot uk

The recent legal victory shows that the lrish Govt needs to allign their statues and perhaps constitution with that of other western world in respect of residency for non-national. A Govt who believes in family value would not go a long way to delibrately dislogde a family by refusing either of the parents residency. Allowing the other spouse to live with other members of the family who are already in the state will create a healthy family which constitutes a healthy community.
The economic vibrancy which the state required of the ones granted residency can easily be attained with other spouse contributing. I wish Mr NacDowell will allow the ruling to stay by immediately putting in place arrangement for all who qualified irrespective of their location at the moment to benefit from this ruling.

by Yomi Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:48

We need someone to help us explain to the Tanaiste that all we want is to be able to bring up our children in an environment were their potentials can be fully realized. I am sure that Mr McDowell and the Whole of Ireland will one day look back and thank God they allowed us to stay.

by lekan Mon Nov 20, 2006 20:48 lycnade at yahoo dot co dot uk

The ruling of the court further shows the aspiration of the irish people when the referendum was held; that non national parents of children born before 010105 be allowed to stay. The act did not specify any time frame because the dail in its wisdom knew that there were still parents outside the state who just like these few look forward to having a responsible family life but for limitations. All these able bodied men want is to be allowed to stay with their children as required by the constitution and contribute to the irish nation.We should be careful in not creating disadvantaged classes of irish that might grow up to detest the irish state for the treatment of their parents.

Ireland seek migrant workers and yet we have parents of irish citizen children begging to be allowed to fill part of this gap while fulfilling their natural roles as parents. I believe the justice minister should look into the issues very carefully as i know there is adequate statistics to show we are only dealing with a few parents of our citizen children. Build the family,build the nation

by Emma-RAR Tue Nov 21, 2006 17:38

This is great news for parents of Irish born children and too many people were refused - children have the right to have their parents with them McDowell now has 21 days to bring an appeal to the supreme court but I think hopefully if he does it will not be successful. One issue now I think is the fact that children being born now in Ireland are being denied the right to a passport and even some cases a birthcert so there is still more to fight on.

by saluki53 Wed Nov 22, 2006 13:10

Mrs Justice Finlay Geoghegan is an excellent judge. Her grasp of the legal technicalities - and her compassion - serve her well in the Chancery High Court where she usually sits to adjudicate in mortgage-suites.

However, her record in Refugee cases is not good. In these matters she is miles to the left of the present Supreme Court. Her judgements in refugee cases have invariably been overturned on appeal (On my last estimate six of the last seven of her significant judgements in these matters have been overturned on appeal)

Presuming the Dept. of Justice appeals (and Dept. insiders speak of a determination by the Minister to face down the plaintiffs in these cases), the chances are that the Supreme Court will overturn this judgement. Immigration lawyers would also point out that the underpinning grounds in Finlay-Geoghegan's judgement in this case would seem to run completely counter to decisions of the Supreme Court in at least three other decided cases, and that if the judgement were allowed stand there would be significant reprecussions for the status of several accepted principles of international law - including the Brussels and Hague Conventions.

If the claimants are looking for relief at the hands of the law from McDougal, they are set for a sad disapointment.

by rosa lux Wed Nov 22, 2006 15:54

Saluki rather overstates the legal argument.

The bottom line is that McDowell need not appeal the judgement at all. Proceedural inadequacy, not substantial illegality, was the teason for the learned Judge, ruling.

McDowell only needs to run the decision-making process again, expressly addressing the proceedural inadequacies which led to the first decisions being set aside, and refuse the applications.

All done and dusted.

by Tim Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:52

The Tanaiste should be given credit for putting an end to the Irish Baby scam but I feel the Hard part of the job has already been done it is time for Mr McDowell to just let go.These Children should be allowed to enjoy life with their parents.

by McCain Sat Nov 25, 2006 22:51

Our values among others include family. Every lrish home and abroad cherishes his/her family. AS an lrish,l cant justify why we should keep house wives and restrict their husbands from visiting or living with them. It sounds barbaric,unlrish and ungodly. Our government should not separate decent families under the disguise of any policy. Allow these families to enjoy real family life. Many of us have benefited from other nations when we were in distress. At 65, l know what it means to be stranded when you are not with your family. Minister of justice should allow the case close by adding value to these families.

by fiorgael Sun Nov 26, 2006 21:48

Ireland is applying the same rules of international law to these illegal immigrants as it applies to everyone - whether Irish or otherwise.

Under international law families only have a right to re-unify or reside together in any country all family-members have a right to reside. That rule applies to you, me, and these Nigerian gentlemen.

All the members of these families have a right to reside in Nigeria.

None of these claimants have any legally valid reason whatsoever for refusing to return to Nigeria. They are not refugees. If either parent was a refugee the entire family would have leave to reside in Ireland, but they are not.

You may not be aware, but the mothers of these children arrived in this country alone. The gents who are now so concerned for their parental and family rights were nowhere to be seen. They only turned up after the children were born, alleging that they were the fathers and claiming residency rights as parents of an Irish born child.

Unfortunately for them they were caught out by the change in the law.

As previously explained by some other contributor to this debate this case was decided on a procedural issue - not that it was illegal as such to deport the illegal immigrants concerned. The Minister now has two options. He can appeal, or he can allow the determination process to start again, and having remedied the procedural defect, deport them.

by Risen Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:37

Irsich Child is got every right to live in Ireland, It is not good idea to send Irish child to live in Poor countries where no Medical or better education available.

Tomorrow you can expect a photo of an Irish citizen child begging for food in poor countries, Ireland is one of highly civilized countries in the world, so let its new Irish citizens live and study in Ireland with proud.

by F.E.M. - F.E.M. Mon Nov 27, 2006 13:41

This excellent judge, Mrs Justice Finlay Geoghegan, also demanded justice from the minister Mr. McDowell and from the Garda commissioner Conroy to come up with the file on the kidnap of 2 Irish children 3 years ago.
Gardai "forgot" to put these children on the missing list. So far they have not been put on it and international search has not been done. At least one child has been sexually abused by the B.J.Z. in the Netherlands according to their own files. B.J.Z. is currently holding the children in the Netherlands and they are visiting a person the B.J.Z. brand as a paedophile themselves, until a Dutch judge will award them to the Irish. The Dutch judge will not do so if they are not on the list of kidnapped children. According to the international barrister of the mother, Mc Dowell wrote that he cannot push the gardai into working as he has no authority over them...he is the head of the justice isn’t he? so...???
The Garda commissioner Conroy laughed at the mother and her international barrister when they demanded the files after Mrs Justice Finlay Geoghegan and her colleague judge Johnson had contacted the Garda commissioner. No judge can tell me what to do he said; The international barrister told us.
How dare The Garda commissioner Conroy and the minister Mr. McDowell, how dare they!

by rule of law Mon Nov 27, 2006 14:01

None of the children involved in this case are Irish.

They are foreign children born of foreign parents.

Their only connection with Ireland is that their mothers illegally sneaked themselves into Ireland shortly before the children concerned were born. That no longer entitles them to Irish citizenship.

They are now in the exact same position of millions of other Nigerian children born to Nigerian parents.

The Irish people spoke overwhelmingly on this matter at the citizenship referendum.

McDowell is hardly going to disregard the democratic verdict of the people.

by catherine sara Mon Nov 27, 2006 21:35

Does it matter where children are born on the planet??
I dread seeing the way Governments pick and choose their slaves.Yes, I said slaves, because no matter who you are you need permission to leave Ireland..ie a passport and that booklet is actually owned by the Government not by the person who possesses it in their hand.I would have thought that World citizen was more fitting in the 21st century, with the elimination of all borders.If we are all free then why can we not go anywhere we like.The Government did not buy the land of Ireland from anyone.It was just there for all to use for the survival of all.Whether the baby is black, white, pink or purple should make no difference to loving people.And the Irish believe they are good Christians then??? Sorry, I do not agree.

by Conor Sat Dec 02, 2006 08:50

Common guys If you were in their shoes I bet you will do the same.There was a loop hole in our system and they exploited it. For this group of people it is their luck we cannot now say they should go back. Even if I were the most racist Irish man on earth I wouldn't wish for a Father to be separated from his children at this stage.If you are from the third world and you get an opportunity like this let us face facts you would grab it with both hands just like this people have done. The mistake was of our own making and thanks to McDowell it will not happen again.

by mac' kay - law of the land Tue Dec 05, 2006 20:17

Hi guys why are you guys talking in such a manner this people have giving birth on ireland soil and the minister has no choice but to allow them to stay. As an irish guy i dont see why a child should be refused of having a father and mother care, because am a victim of that i suffered it and will not like any other child to have the same experence be it black or white. Pls my minister just allow them to stay please.

by sanyani Tue Dec 05, 2006 21:38

The Minister has lodged his appeal with the Supreme Court as expected.

by Tadhg Fri Dec 08, 2006 22:46

Whats the point in appealing.If the Justice minister wins at the Supreme Court there are two possible things that will happen to this group of people.
1 They pack their bags and get the hell out of here leaving their children.
2 They pack up and take their families with them.

In the first case these children will grow without their fathers this in itself portends serious dangers which I cannot begin to point ouy now for lack of time.

in the second case when the children come of age they can choose to come back to Ireland harbouring so much resentment and we won't be able to deport back because they are Irish.

Am I the only person seeing the danger in having resentful Black men carrying Irish Passports in our mist.

Let us not create a gulf between our children and the children of Non Nationals. The definition of who is Irish is constantly changing and we should be wise emough to accept that all Irish Children are equal irrespective of the race or background of their Parents.

We need to avoid a situation where we will be creating more problems for our selves and our children in future.

by kelly Tue Dec 19, 2006 21:23

I am highly disappointed the ways and manners the government treat cases regard to foreigners. I am an Irsh but base in America for 29 years, we act negatively to foreigner at this 21st century and as a matter of urgency we should reconcile our immigration law to other developed countries. America and canada study the potential of immigrants and the make use of them. We should stop thinking how to seperate family. We can borrow canadian immigration system. It will only expand our growing economy.

by Rebecca Breslin Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:10

It is just a shame that as a nation we have not learnt how to tap into the potential of Migrant Groups and take from them that which we can use for our own benefit. I find it absolutely ludicrous that we are even contemplating deporting fathers of Irish Citizen Children when all we need to do is exploit the different ways they can be of advantage to us as a nation. We should be looking for Solutions not creating problems.
Why would we want to break up families? Yes we need to control immigration but please let us also be forward looking. This group will be of more use to us when they have their entire (Nuclear) Family unit here.

by Riordan Sat Dec 30, 2006 13:06

The Tanaiste seems to forget that "Healthy children - living within a loving, supportive environment and with the ability to participate in community life - are less likely to be violent or to become involved in serious criminal activity." There is enormous benefit to be derived from them in future.

by Noxyo Thu May 31, 2007 19:48

If as a people, whether christians or muslims and we believe in God/Allah,then it will not be difficult to know that loving our neigbours as our selves is of the almighty.

A society need to have laws governing them because of adverses of man.But when that law becomes distructive to man then the puppose has been defeated.

Bearing this in mind, I would like to further say, the Irish are a people rich in history.People all over the world get distressed one way or the other at some point and they need a shoulder to rely on.

If Ireland has become capable of being a shoulder then they should be greatful to God in appreciation.Immigrants are people who change location because they are either distressed or just want a better life or explore the world freely given by GOD.

Pls,pls and pls separating families is not the answer - when children are born a new life has begun pls cherish it.

THINK DEEP ABOUT THIS LITTLE STORY.