An Gaeilge

by NO COMPREND Wed Sep 27, 2006 20:12

Could you please post this in English as well as some of us do not have Irish and may be missing something important.

Thanks.

by :-) Wed Sep 27, 2006 22:22

Linguistic ability comes in many different forms. The first and most obvious is comprehension of spoken language. That's followed by the ability to communicate effectively. Of the world's most widespread languages, at least 3 are predominantly nearly completely "oral". A man or woman who can write fluent Urdu has achieved a level of education denied the vast majority of their peers, something perhaps worth remembering the next time you see a handwritten notice in Urdu in a asian-run shop. After oral forms are considered, linguistic ability focusses on reading comprehension. This skill is ironically only achieved after the literate learner has absorbed many thousands of words (or as in Sino languages : their representations). When learning languages of "families" many achieve reading ability far before they grasp speech. Any person who can understand completely what is written above in gaeilge, would also understand written Manx, Scottish gaelic or Erse. But perhaps their palate and vocal chords and little trilling tongue may never pronounce properly those languages.

The last and most important stage is the ability to write. Peader can write Gaeilge. & I can read what he wrote. & though I am incapable of writing a comment in a language I was taught from a young age (even attending for a brief period an "all-Irish" school) that is no slight on the richness of our language. I agree with Peader, & my personal "tuppence worth" is that of course our modern Gaeilge is not the tongue of Cuchalain (the madzer of ancient Ulster) nor even of the ravings poured forth by Suibhne a thousand years later. Neither were the languages brought to exile by the wildest of geese. None of those sounds were heard in a hedgeschool just as no European school child ever pronounced Latin properly. But we have to remember "how to keep Irish alive". It is a language whose orthography is mysterious. I for one never really understood the wisdom of the spelling rules adopted in the mid 20th century & wonder might it not help us all if the most scholarly of Gaeilgoirs had another look at :-
the alphabet suitable to our language.
an orthography which phonetically reflected pronunciation.
sexy posters & an original vocabulary for things like pizza. I as a reader really enjoyed the debate on the site and its lists which accompanied the Gaeilge name change of indymedia ireland to saormheáin. & I reckon many of us incapable of writing comments in Gaeilge will still as we always have - enjoy articles & ensuing debates written well in Gaeilge. It is important perhaps to remember that many other European "minority" languages especially those which went through persecution saw the same phenomona. They were redeemed by scholars, they were standardised often with "unique" spellings or grammatical twists which themselves altered in a century & the results are clear - there are speakers of euskara, catalan, romanesch alive today whose grandchildren hold degrees in the philology of languages they themselves can speak "quaintly" but not write accurately.

Gurb maith leat !

by Seosamh - Conradh na nGall Wed Sep 27, 2006 22:26

I wont write this in an Ghaeilge because it may be misunderstood as a exclusive act of a finatical faction
worse yet it may be misinterpreted by extremists or fundamentalists as being otherly.

Let me pose this question to the poster,
Why bother learning or speaking this language if it is used a tool for those who wish to express their so-called identity.? It is often the case that speakers will desist using this language when their point concerning their alleged difference or uniqueness has been made, usually in the presence of foreigners or English speakers.
Please outline items or details of ways of living or modes of communication/existence that warrant the useage of a distinct tongue.
Is it merely this one ,arguably crucial, facet of your(?) culture(?) which you wish to bolster and strengthen?
If an Ghaeilge is the hub of 'your' way of life then maybe it is time to grasp and expess the signifigance of the various spokes that are radiated from 'her'.

by gníomhaí Thu Sep 28, 2006 15:57

Is gníomhaite roinnt mhaith daoine ar Indymedia, ach mar sin féin i mo thuirimse ní mór duinn bheith in ár ngníomhaithe teanga. Tá muid fós ró-neamhshuimiúil agus fuarchúiseach i nGaeilge sa tír seo - Cé chomh fada fós?
Rud eile- 'tuige nach bhfuil Gaeilgeoirí is lucht na Gaeilge níos sástaí seirbhísí éileamh sa chéad teanga oifigiúil?

Tír gan teanga -tír gan anam

by mmmmmm Thu Sep 28, 2006 18:12

Gaeilge is one of the world's languages which went through "rennaisance" in the 19th century roughly at the same time as European nationalism emerged. I think it significant that the proverb quoted by the last commentator ( Tír gan teanga -tír gan anam = a country without language is a country without soul) came into use at that time. European 19th century nationalism differentiated itself from 18th century nationalism in the Americas or 20th century nationalism in Asia for the important role played by intellectual elites whose primary (or educated) language was not the one they subsequently promoted as a core facet of their vision of nation. In other words from the independence of Norway & Belgium on, language was central to 19th century European nationalism.
To put it simply in Ireland the men & women who collated the poetry & songs of gaeilge, many of whom were associated with the Royal Irish Academy spoke English as their primary "commercial" tongue. By the 20th century the advocates and champions of Gaeilge had built a corpus of "indiginous literature" the most important novelist of which may arguably be Peig herself. This pattern of linguistic redemption & resuscitation accompanied a formalisation of grammer & dilineation of dialects. But behind all that scholarly stuff, Gaeilge continued its decline at the very same time it took central place in "national identity".
For a moment to illustrate the curve, consider that O Connell's campaign to emancipate catholics drew millions of followers because he spoke in English, the emancipation he won following the end of the penal laws and preceding the famine laid the way for - "the return of Gaeilge" yet that return also saw the rise of Irish literature in English, and the scholars who studied Hiberno-English of the late 19th / early 20th century such as PK Joyce saw the soul of Gaeilge in every sentance .

I do not think a nation is defined by its language. Not do I think a language or its dialects observe clear geographic borders. That was 19th century nationalism. This year at long last the indiginous languages of the states of Peru, Bolivia & Chile found their presence on the internet strengthened by a Microsoft operating system option. Before the Peruvian 20 year civil war of immediate history, language had never been an issue in South American nationalism (bolivarian or otherwise).

It is interesting that the Irish people now no longer speak the Hiberno English or Gaeilge recognisable to Peig's or O'Conaire's generation. We now speak English with increasingly trans-atlantic accents & globalised vocabularies, our English is indeed closer to Boston than London now.

Maybe it's better to suggest "a country with more languages has more soul" = Can we make a new seanfhocal?..... of course we can. gan amhras. sin é. gurb maith agaibh.

irish language links for learners & fluent speakers / eloquent writers alike :- http://www.gaeilge.org/links.html

by Paul Baynes Sat Sep 30, 2006 00:41

Tá an alt go maith, ach caithim a rá nach bhfuil an Gaeilge "an céad teanga scríofa an Eoraip", mar a dúirt an scríobhóir. Is é an Gaeilge an tríú teanga scríofa, tar éis an Gréigis agus an Laidin.

Fós stair go-han mhaith don ár teanga féin, ceapaim.

by Robbie - imc.ie Sat Sep 30, 2006 01:48

[my summar – Ógra Sinn Féin thinks that Irish Gaeilic is still alive, despite the dying-out of dialects, especially among the young. The author thinks that more people should speak Irish because it’s our culture and heritage and because it differentiates us from other races and cultures .

More detailed translation
The Irish language is a central part of this country’s life. It’s a really historical language. It’s the first written European language, and from then on, it has seen many changes, like the changes that happened to the country itself. It’s not the same language CÚ Chulainn spoke, nor even the same languge spoken when the Foreigner was tryin’ to dominate here.

Today, the Irish language faces many challenges. The language itself isn’t widespread, there’s not the same respect as there was, and owing to years of disinterest and neglect, the different dialects are dyin’ out and the young people of these localities aren’t bothered about speakin’ it among themselves – something essential to the preservation of dialects and the language itself.
Whatever happens to our language in time to come, it’s still our language and one of the things about Irish culture that reinforces who we are and which separates us from other races and different cultures.
If we let Irish go down it’s current road, the importance associated with it will be lost and if that happens, a good part of our heritage and personality, too.

Irish will have to be thought of as a living language if it is to increase and strengthen with every day that passes.

Ógra Sinn Féin are very much in favour of preserving the Irish language. We understand well, however, that we can’t do it by ourselves. Hence, we want to encourage the young people of this country to learn and speak Irish among themselves, because that’s the only way to return it to it’s prime position in the life of this country.
Speak it. Defend it. Be proud of it. Not tomorrow, not the day after that, but today.

by Máire Sat Sep 30, 2006 08:43

Bhí mé ar bhus 40 inné ó iarthair Fhionnghlais go lár na cathrach. Thug mé faoi ndeara go raibh ceathrar buachaillí sna déaga ag spocadh faoi fear a bhí ina shuí gar dóibh. Cheapadar gur Polainneach é agus bhíodar ag magadh faoi. Cé go raibh sé siúd ag fanúint ina thost, shuigh mé ina measc agus thosaigh mé ag comhrá leo. Ba é ceann de na "gearáin" a bhí acu faoin "bPolainneach" ná nach raibh sé ábalta "Irish" a labhairt - Béarla a bhí i gceist acu ach thugadar siúd "Irish" ar an mBéarla a bhí á labhairt acu siúd!

Aguisín: Tamaillín ina dhiaidh sin thárla gur aithin mé beirt bhean óg Polainneach a oibríonn i lár na cathrach agus a bhí feicithe cheana agam ag filleadh abhaile ar an mbus go Baile Bhailcín, áit ina gcónaím. Thosaigh mé ag caint leo siúd faoin eachtra ar an mbus eile úd ó Fhionnghlas. D'inis duine acu dom go raibh sí ina suí ar an mbus oíche amháin os comhair beirt chailín Éireannach a bhí sé bhliana déag d'aois agus ólta. Bhí sí féin ag titim ina codladh ar an mbus agus nuair a bhí na cailíní Éireannacha ag fágáil an bhus, bhuail duine acu go crua í ar a ceann le scáth fearthainne agus ritheadar amach!