Security is what Israel really wants. Period.

by Mahmoud Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:56

Lebanese and Palestinians must take a big long look at ourselves
As a Muslim from Palestine living in Ireland I despair at the catastrophy inflicted on Muslims by Israel.
But Israel was provoked - nobody but a deluded fool or a liar would deny that fact.
I understand the Israeli mindset completely after bitter experience.
The Jews simply want to live in peace in their homestate after they were slaughtered by the Nazis.
They choose to come to Palestine because it was their home in Biblical times long before Islam existed and they thought they felt safe there.
In 1948 it might have been right to fight to prevent the establishment of Israel but now that is no longer justified.
The Arabs attacked Israel again and again and failed every time.
Israel is here to stay and we must live side by side with the Jews.
But this is not possible at the moment not because of Israeli oppression of the Muslims but because our religious and nationalist extremism invites the attacks of Israel, who genuinely believes it is under siege.
Israel is stronger and because it is stronger it cannot be reasonably expected to yield.
But Lebanese and Palestinians can give up their struggle and win in the long run.
If Israel could be garanteed that is not under siege, then it would withdraw from Lebanon, West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and anywhere else.
It would even let Palestinians live and work in Israel.
The Holy Land is a beautiful land, full of history and ripe for tourism.
Why is the coast of Spain, Greece, Sicily, Cyprus, the South of France, Ibiza, Corfu, Turkey, etc. such a tourist success when our countries with lovely beautiful beaches are so poor?
Because we hate eachother and do not live our lives.
But Palestinians and Lebanese have no political freedom despite the supposed lies about "democratic elections".
Hamas and Fatah were the only choices to us in the West Bank and Gaza.
Both of them criminal mafia with armed gunmen who shoot anyone who opposes them.
Palestinians had the same choice the people of LA have - the Bloods or the Crips.

The majority of people in Lebanon, Shia, Sunni, Christian and Druze do not want war with Israel.
But Hezbollah has brought this war on us by rocketing Jewish towns and cities.
Is it any wonder the Israelis bomb us when Muslims always take advantage of the peace to prepare for the next attack?
Israel pulled out in 2000 and Hezbollah with the help of the Persians from Iran who are not friends of the Arabs prepared for the attack in 2006. We Arabs pay the price for President Ahmedinejad.
Will he fire his nuclear bomb and destroy Tel Aviv and Jews and Muslims will die, while the Iranians who live far away will call us marytrs?

I left Palestine for Ireland because here in Ireland no gunmen tell me what do to.
Nobody extorts me. I am not caught in the crossfire between my brother Muslims and the Jews.
I don't hate. I want to live.
I weep for my people and my country.

Inshallah one day I will go back.

by hmmz Fri Jul 28, 2006 15:01

That is why I believe that if Muslims can recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and stop attacking the Jews, then the Israelis will pull out of Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights and Souther Lebanon for good and even allow many refugees to return to land they once lived on within Israel.

Yes, Arafat should have negotiated in 2000 but he was not a man of peace. the big question is when will men of peace be able to come to the table without the pressure of the gunmen(on all sides), the solution is simple---it is exactly what you have said , everyone even Israel knows that the creation of a new state is inevitable, what is needed is men of peace to do it, Baraks offer in 2000 shows that indeed a settlement of what you describe is extremely possible

I hope that one day you shall return in peace and to a new state, this area is long overdue on the peace front

by Ali H. Fri Jul 28, 2006 15:09

How can Palestinians recognise the Israeli state when the Israelis refuse to define the borders of that state?

Recognising Israel without such a definition is to give Israel carte blanche to steal Palestinian lands in the West Bank as they have already tried to do with their so-called security fence.

The only way Israel can be recognised is as the final step in a peace process.

A good example of Israeli duplicity is how they interpreted a soft indication from the Rome conference on Lebanon as an excuse to continue and increase the ferocity of their war crimes in Lebanon.

Why should the Palestinians believe Israeli claims that peace only depends on recognition of Israel when their track-record suggests otherwise?

by Feyadeen Fri Jul 28, 2006 16:09

I wouldn't be surprised if the article above was posted under a false name by a dishonest Zionist. But if Mahmoud is genuine, his views are still laughable. When Jews criticise Israel, they are often accused of being "self-hating Jews", and it's usually laughable. In this case though, the term "self-hating Palestinian" would be applicable - a sort of Arab Eoghan Harris/Kevin Myers/Conor Cruise O'Brien

by hmmz Fri Jul 28, 2006 16:29

his views are still laughable.

Why exactly--I thought that they were actually very very accurate, barak practically gave this to them in 2000 and the great yassar refused to even talk, discuss debate or negotiate it(in the process showing his true colours and ensuring he was ignored for the rest of his short life), not forgetting of course that he was not even a palestinian in the first place

by PaddyK Fri Jul 28, 2006 16:44

What a laugh, Really ! Ho Ho Mahmoud my ass. You are a phoney pseudo-zionist imaginary Palestinian. Nobody reading the tripe above should even pretend for a second that it is anything but shamefully low-grade propaganda.
That one was embarrassing for you.

Go on, Run along now, MahMoud and play with the F-16s.

by Conor Fri Jul 28, 2006 16:45

So somebody disagrees with your point of view and they are all sorts of things. Israel is going nowhere, you have tried on many occasions to push them into the sea and it has never worked. Live and let live. Is it not the fact that every time Israel has been attacked they have come back hard and fast, why do you think this time will be different. You must leave your hatered behind, and learn to talk to each other. Then maybe there will be a lasting peace and justice for all.

by Feyadeen Fri Jul 28, 2006 16:56

Yeah, it is guff Conor. The main obstacle to a settlement, for many years, has been the refusal of Israel to accept meaningful independence for the Palestinian people. All the lies and disinformation about the wonderful offers made by Barak or anyone else can't hide that.

by Feyadeen Fri Jul 28, 2006 17:03

"The oppression of the Palestinians is immense but it only exists because Palestinians will not make peace with Israel by abandoning violence for good. "

As I said - laughable, pathetic, dishonest apologetics for the criminal behaviour of the Israeli state. Shameful nonsense that should be dismissed with contempt.

Nowhere in this article, at any point, is there any acknowledgment that Israel itself might just possibly have some slight responsibility for anything that's happened since 1948. Israeli soldiers may kill children, but the it's all the Palestinians' fault.

The PLO recognised Israel and renounced violence in 1988, then they were strung along by the Israelis for the next twelve years, seven years after the Oslo agreement was signed the Palestinians were no nearer to getting real independence than they had been at the start. Then Barak and Clinton tried to bully Arafat into accepting a deal that would have left Israel in control of large chunks of the West Bank.

The self-serving fantasies of Israel's cheerleaders about Israel's kindness and generosity, thwarted by the fanaticism of the Palestinians, are convincing only to people who are ignorant of the real facts or determined not to see what is in front of their eyes.

by hmmz Fri Jul 28, 2006 17:10

Then Barak and Clinton tried to bully Arafat into accepting a deal that would have left Israel in control of large chunks of the West Bank.

err lets refresh your obviously incorrect memory:

Israeli redeployment from 95% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip
The creation of a Palestinian state in the areas of Israeli withdrawal
The removal of isolated settlements and transfer of the land to Palestinian control
Other Israeli land exchanged for West Bank settlements remaining under Israeli control
Palestinian control over East Jerusalem, including most of the Old City
"Religious Sovereignty" over the Temple Mount, replacing Israeli sovereignty in effect since 1967
In return Arafat had to declare the "end of conflict" and agree that no further claims on Israel could be made in the future. Despite the considerable concessions by Israel, Arafat chose not to negotiate, not to make a counter-offer but to just walk out. This was typical of the Palestinian leader's style: offer nothing, just say no and wait for more concessions. In fact, the Palestinian negotiating team did make concessions during the negotiating process, but Arafat himself never agreed. It was not the specific terms that caused the summit to collapse, but rather the lack of a counterproposal

by Spoof Watch Fri Jul 28, 2006 17:11

This piece is so obviously posted by a supporter of Israel pretending to be a Palestinian: no Palestinian would make the mistake of calling the third holiest place in the Islamic religion "Al Asqa".

by Feyadeen Fri Jul 28, 2006 18:59

Nope, that was the fantasy version of what was on offer put about by Barak and Clinton after the negotiations broke down. You may choose to swallow their lies but don't expect the rest of us to follow

by PaddyK Fri Jul 28, 2006 21:56

The truth about what was ultimately offered by the Israelis at Camp David is difficult to get to at this sage due to the amount of Myth, propaganda and counter propaganda, but rest assured what hmmz has outlined above is at the well worn end of the pseudo-zionist spectrum, so far so that, as presented above, it constitutes a lie.

Here is a brief overview that cuts through much of the irrelevancies surrounding the whole affair.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/offers.doc

What is totally emitted from the rubbish above is the fact that the basis for agreement is the internationally recognised and endorsed green line borders. This itself is a concession by the Palestinians to give up all the territory upon which Israel is founded and accept Israel as it's neighbour there, upon the land from which they were expelled. They have agreed to it. That’s the concession. You see, the Israelis weren't in a position to offer anything because the bargaining was all about territory and freedoms within the internationally accepted future Palestine.

What happened at Camp David were attempts to get the Palestinians to concede more on top of that concession. Primarily to have the land cut up by Israeli access road, Settlement Blocs, Security zones. To have no international borders, to have no control over roadblocks that could be sealed off without warning and to yield a massive security zone in the fertile Jordan Valley. To give them sovereignty over some clumps, Autonomy over other bits just a load of rubbish really. It was these proposals that the Palestinians refused to negotiate, as they were pathetic from the outset.

The generous offer story that resembles the tripe above actually stems from American Bridging proposals and further talks at Taba where Clinton, desperate to rescue something from his sordid career, the highlight of which was having oral sex with a 22 year old woman in the most democratic office in the world, came up with unofficial proposal that the Palestinians allegedly found interest in.

It was these talks that were the highlight of the peace process and allegedly the closest ever the ME players came to a multilateral agreement. And it was from these talks that Ehud Barak left without ever confirming officially if they were ever actually offering it or not.

There's a lot more to it than that, and I am sure many of you could illuminate further, these events. But as for hmmz crap above, well, its crap.

by Why do to others what Hitler did to you? Mon Jul 31, 2006 01:10

The Nazi-like great and super powerful army of Israel is on the march again.
Goliath of the bible had a conscience, and wanted peace. Read the story again. This New Goliath is rapacious, totally without peer in destruction of innocent people and property.
They are the greatest war criminals of the world today, along with the mad cowboy King George Bush, his cronies, and lapdog Queen Tony and his sycophants.

ALL WARS ARE HATE CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. The recent Israeli BlitzKrieg of a basically defenseless people in Lebanon, people who do not have anti aircraft stinger missiles, or anything that can be used against a very super strong GOLIATH backed by over 500 nuclear bombs as the fourth greatest military power in the world, is a tragedy of modern history.
Israel has refused to sign a non proliferation nuclear treaty, or admit to even having a huge arsenal, plus submarines to deliver their deadly weapons, except when Vannanu came out of 18 years of total isolation and confinement to tell the world about what he knew and had seen at Dimona. That solitary confinement is in itself an extreme act of torture. So what is the great Mad Cowboy King and his lapdog Queen Tony going to do now, watch and do nothing as the huge israeli panzer army roles over a prostrated country, just like hitler's nazi armada in the world war 2 era. A no vote in the security council of an impotent, castrated, united nations is the same as any fascist dictatorship telling the world to "go to hell you bastards and bitches, we rule the world, not you." Sieg Heil israel and your friends in the usa and around the world.
(This may be copied and circulated around the world using my pen name; DrumBeater4Peace.)

by melic Mon Jul 31, 2006 01:19

Another good analisis about the Middle East from Aljazeera TV:

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wm...=null

by MrsFactor Mon Jul 31, 2006 03:32

Israel wouldn't be bombing the hell out of Lebanon if the Hezbollah hadn't been lobbing rockets over the border, repeatedly, well before Hezbollah chose to kidnap two Israeli soldiers. I wonder how long any of us would tolerate our neighbor tossing piles of deadly sh*t in our yards before we went over and kicked his butt.

Luckily, we can call the police and have something done about our crappy neighbor. Israel is policing herself and kicking the butt's of terrorists who have consistently tried to intimidate, harm, and murder their citizens.

It would be a JOY if people would really learn the history of that region before they go off, espousing uneducated and asinine views.

peace

by Re-butt-al Mon Jul 31, 2006 09:25

Yes, I'm sure those dead Lebanese children were all terrorists. If the Isrealis want to kill those who've taken up arms against them, they might make a case but as they're killing children..... well I hope you're so understanding if anything ever happens to your children.

by Wisdo Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:52

Isreal has killed around half a million arabs so far. When did that happen? in the last few decades. 6 million arabs? theyd kill them all if no-one was watching. But eventually they will reach that number and more. Having lived in Isreal, with no previous conception about the Isrealis - I came away shocked at their racism, their nazi like hatred of the arabs and their resolve to kill anyone who gets in their way. They are largly indoctrinated by propaganda, just like the germans were. Remember "this must never happen again?" well its happening again.

And make no mistake the REASON behind ALL of it is GREED FOR LAND THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM.

by Wisdo Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:02

"Israel wouldn't be bombing the hell out of Lebanon if the Hezbollah hadn't been lobbing rockets over the border"

Are you joking? People have such short memories. ISREAL STARTED BOMBING FIRST, idiot. The rockets were a response to brutal Isreali attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure.

Hezbollah, manged to capture 2 isreali troops on lebanese territory, and Isreal responded with their savage punishment attacks.

Why did Hezbollah capture the troops (and kill a few more, although no-one seems to care about dead isreali soldiers - only "kidnapped" ones)? It captured them in order to obtain the release of their own people - women and children held by Isreal for years without trial in dungeons, tortured and beaten.
But not only for prisoner exchange, it was also to try and stop the terrible Isreali atrocities in Gaza, again started over the capture of an Isreali soldier WHICH WAS PRECEDED by the Isreali capture of 2 palestinian doctors.

Now - when Olmert took over from Sharon he was widely believe to be a dove. It was believed he would reduce the army and withdraw from the West bank. What did the IDF do? they started shelling gaza, killing whole families. They shelled a beach full of tourists. hoping the outrage would provoke action on the part of the arabs, thus ensuring a nice little war for the IDF to fight.

by removefiannafail - www.soldiersofdestiny.org Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:34

The jews drove the Palestians from their homes some 60 years ago as we all know,and because of the Holocaust they got away with it.They purchased some 7 percent of the land they now occupy and the rest they conquered by force of arms.
They did not liquidate millions of Palestinians;They turned them into refugees and made them homeless leaving their precarious existance to depend oh handouts from other arab and European nations.
Do they really believe war crimes and the slaughter of innocent children will make their historic injustice go away;
2500 young americans have died do far to overthrow a tyrant (Saddam Hussein)who kept his own people under tight control as Tito did before Yugoslavia imploded.
Saddams worst crime external to his own country was his unequivocal support for the Palestinian cause and funding the families whos homes were demolished by Israeli tanks because their young sons and daughters had heroically-and tragically -become human bombs in the terror war against Israeli territorial expansion.
This is a David and Goliath struggle.Many more young Americans will pay the price for Mr Bush and his invasion of Iraq.
The greatest hope i see is signs of a rappor between the historic feuding Muslim sects.
Until this happens the Palestians and the Arab world will continue to suffer.
"My enemies enemy is my friend"
The Arab world would do well to learn from an old jewish proverb;

by pfft Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:47

Saddams worst crime external to his own country was his unequivocal support for the Palestinian cause and funding the families whos homes were demolished by Israeli tanks because their young sons and daughters had heroically-and tragically -become human bombs in the terror war against Israeli territorial expansion.

Err no his worst crime was the killing of over 1million Iranians, or the gassing of the kurds perhaps

err again explain how Israel has expanded its territory after 1967?

explain how blowing yourself up in a crowded space killing innocent people is regarded as heroic? Do you regard this as heroic? I guess you do, which really says enough about you

what do think about Jordan in all this>? As a supporter of the palistinian cause you must have an opinion on Jordan>?

I wish people here had some idea about the middle east before they spout absolute rubbish

by Des the moaner Mon Jul 31, 2006 14:24

"The greatest hope i see is signs of a rappor between the historic feuding Muslim sects."

I hope this doesn't refer to some sort of coming together of Islamic opinion so they can start murdering infidels with greater success. While Israeli behaviour is indefensible, I refuse to bow to global Islamo-fascism and it's western apologists.

by eastern eye Mon Jul 31, 2006 15:40

"make no mistake the REASON behind ALL of it is GREED FOR LAND THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM. "
Greed for land? How exactly the conflict with Lebanon can lead to more land? Israel had a security zone for 20 years inside Lebanon, and never send people to settle there. Israel moved out 6 years ago, during which the Hizballa kept provoking.

"People have such short memories. ISREAL STARTED BOMBING FIRST, idiot."
Pople do have short memory, since HIZBALLA STARTED BOMBING FIRST. on 12th of July at 09:00. Hizballa's act of attacking the soldiers on Israeli soil took place at 09:05.
The kidnapped soldiers were on Israeli soil. This can be proved easily, since there is the place where what remained of the IDF HMMWV was found, and the fact that the soldiers were reserve ones. They don't enter Lebanon and till now Israel didn't send reserve soldiers into Lebanon.

"It captured them in order to obtain the release of their own people - women and children held by Isreal for years without trial in dungeons, tortured and beaten."
Infact, there are no Lebanese women and children prisoners, and very few Lebanese prisoners at all: most of them were released in exchange for 3 bodies and one live half traitor half drug dealer that should have stayed in the hands of Hizballa, of you'd ask me.
The one very important prisoner that stayed imprisoned is Samir Quntar, a Lebanese Druze terrorist who killed one policeman and 3 civilians: a father and his 2 little girls (aged 4 and 2). One of which he killed by crushing her head with a rock. It happened 27 years ago. He was sentenced to 4 life imprisonments + 47 years. He deserves to stay in jail.

"But not only for prisoner exchange, it was also to try and stop the terrible Isreali atrocities in Gaza, again started over the capture of an Isreali soldier WHICH WAS PRECEDED by the Isreali capture of 2 palestinian doctors".
Israel doesn't kidnapp, Israel ARRESTS.
Any palestinian prisoner faces trial. A kidnapped IDF soldier doesn't.
A palestinian doesn't have to fear that he will be executed because his people didn't release prisoners. A kidnapped IDF soldier does.
A kidnapped IDF soldier doesn't even gain a treatment of a POW.
By the way, Gila'ad Shalit too, was kidnapped on Israeli soil.

As for the half a million dead arabs, do you have any proof ?

by Eoin Dubsky Mon Jul 31, 2006 17:28

Eastern Eye, if the Irish army or police or secret police abduct a civilian abroad and steal him across the border to Ireland he is being kidnapped. That's the word for it. The same goes for any other country -- including Israel -- there are no exceptions.

Abducting enemy soldiers during a time of war is a different matter, though they are entitled to certain protections under the Geneva Conventions.

I think its all terrible, and nobody should ever join the Israeli army in the first place! But people have, and in doing so they accept to be treated as combatants, rather than civilians, during times of armed conflict. Their enemies can't "murder" the Israeli soldiers, much less "kidnap" them. They can kill or capture them, though of course I hope that it never comes to that.

by katie Wed Aug 09, 2006 22:00

The writer of this article is a courageous and pragmatic man. I have read the analogies with the Nazis and the hate-Israel contributions with interest. The majority of these seem to be misinformed. One small example: Up to the present time, the United States has provided eight times more aid to Palestine than all the Arab states put together. Arab total contributions have been at the same level as the individual grants made separately by Sweden, Germany, the UK, or Italy, and far behind what Norway provides. It will not be easy for the Hamas government to replace all these Western donations, even if some countries continue to provide. See the OECD report at:
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/23/38/1882818.gif.

The aid contributions were not used by the PA to make better the lives of their people - no infrastructure, no institutions, nothing to raise the Palestinians from poverty. Where did it all go?

re. rejection of the Clinton peace initiative, read Fatah docement, "44 Readers why Fateh movement rejects the proposals made by US President Clinton", in Fatah Movement Central Publications, 'Our Opinion', January 1-7, 2001.

Many opportunities for peace were turned down by the PA in the interest of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. For example, the Camp David agreement between Egypt and Israel; the Reagan plan and Jordan-PLO negotiations of the 1980s, the US-PLO dialogue era of 1988-90; as well, of course, as the Oslo peace process. As the writer of this article has made clear, if the PLO/PA or Hamas had any interest in the welfare of their people they would now have negotiated a peaceful state.

Mob hysteria is infectious. In the media and on numerous blogs those who preach hatred of Israel and speak of war crimes, comfortably ignore the hideous slaughter of thousands by Muslims in Darfur and (now) Somalia. WHY? Is it something to do with the 'oldest hatred' - Jew as scapegoat? Listen to Bob Dylan 'The Neighbourhood Bully' (Infidels 1984) and you will get the answer to why Israel must fight for her life.

Opportunites for

by Dinny Fahey Thu Aug 10, 2006 05:09

>>>>>>>>>>>>"So somebody disagrees with your point of view and they are all sorts of things. Israel is going nowhere, you have tried on many occasions to push them into the sea and it has never worked. Live and let live. Is it not the fact that every time Israel has been attacked they have come back hard and fast, why do you think this time will be different. You must leave your hatered behind, and learn to talk to each other. Then maybe there will be a lasting peace and justice for all."

That's guff if ever I've heard it, and it's typical of the Irish left. Rant on about "Solidarity for Lebanon and Palestine", whil refusing to get back to the root causes of the affair - the illegal, genocidal land steal that is the state of Israel.

The Irish, above all, should understand the egregious nature of mass land theft, plantation, and combined cultural and physical genocide. The Palestinians and the Lebanese are enduring now what the Irish endured in the 16th and 17th centuries.

by joe bray - - Sun Nov 19, 2006 14:54

The history of Israel and its Neighbours (which I know very well having relatives in both sides of the divide) has seen the perpetuation of myths that try to disguise serious mistakes and crimes commited from both sides.

Arab population in the Palestinian region dwindled to almost zero in the 19th Century, as witnessed by a Muslim census. In a couple of decades a few Jews manage to become a majority before WWI. As the Jews created a (initially agricultural) economy, Arabs from neighbouring countries started to come to work in services in towns. ( I have met many Palestinians personally, and all of them had Egyptian or Jordanian background.). Most Palestinians remained in Israel, where they were 800.000 in 1948 and are almost twice as many now. On the other hand, during the 1948 war, about 100.000 Palestinians were brutally expelled from Israel. They were then joined by marginalised people from neighbouring countries (in a refugee camp at least you had food from relief agencies) until they reached the present population, quite stable for the last years.

Different Israeli and Palestinian leaders made great advances towards peace, but also great mistakes and crimes, bringing us to the sad present situation. On the many and well-known misfits of Ariel Sharon, let us also remember that Arafat rejected a formal offer to give Palestinians virtually everything they demanded, on the grounds that he wanted all Jerusalem (he was offered only the Arab quarters).

Of course it is innocent to pretend that all Israelis will accept to withdraw to the internationally -accepted boundaries 1948-1964. Because, due to the latest uncertainties, progressive Jews have been leaving Israel lately while the zealots multiply.

However, if the Palestinians accepted what was offered to Arafat, i.e. a permanent peace with Israel in exchange to an acceptable divide, Israel will be forced to accept, both by the international community and by its own progressive forces.

In the foreseeable future, neither the Arabs can suppress Israel, nor Israel can suppress Palestinians. So the only reasonable path forward to improve the lots of people in the region is for BOTH parties to accept that mistakes and crimes have been and are been committed, that violence only leads to more violence.

Hezbollah and Gaza should not send rockets against innocent civilians in Israel. Viceversa, when a rocket kills 10 civilians in Israel, Israel should not send tanks and kill the rocket launcher together with 100 Palestinian civilians. Both actions are shameful.

Peace is the only option: let us offer it even to those that offend us.

Let us work in both Jewish and Arab communities to promote a peace agreement. Ultimately friendship will follow as well. It has happened in many places in the world (Rep. Ireland and Britain, France and Germany).

by joe bray Sun Nov 19, 2006 23:13

This "Joe Bray" is a pseudonym which I selected because some friends call me Joe (not my real name) and I live in Bray. It has been brought to my attention that there are many persons named "Joe Bray" in Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland: I am sorry for any confusion.

by Ayyad - ... Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:33 ak.ip1981 at yahoo dot com Budapest,Hungary

my name is Ayyad 26, i am Palestinian from the 48 from Gaza,i live in Budapest and i want to move to live in Ireland.can any one help.thank u..

by Hasbara Unlimited - Collaborators-Internet Dudevan Sun Jul 12, 2009 20:41

Just a bit on the 'author' of this spurious garbage...

http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

Here 's a bit more background- remember its OUR tax dollars laundered thru the Israeli lobbies that pay for this trash:

ISRAELI ‘THOUGHT POLICE’ DECLARE ALL OUT WAR ON THE WEB
July 12, 2009 ynet.com

Thought-police is here
By Rona Kuperboim

The Foreign Ministry unveiled a new plan this week: Paying talkbackers to post pro-Israel responses on websites worldwide. A total of NIS 600,000 (roughly $150,000) will be earmarked to the establishment of an “Internet warfare” squad.

The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language and who study communication, political science, or law – or alternately, Israelis with military experience gained at units dealing with information analysis.

Beyond the fact that these job requirements reveal a basic lack of understanding in respect to the dynamics of the online discourse – the project’s manager argued that “adults don’t know how to blog” – they are not too relevant either. An effective talkbacker does not need a law degree or military experience. He merely needs to care about the subject he writes about.

The sad truth is that had Israeli citizens believed that their State is doing the right thing, they would have made sure to explain it out of their own accord. Without being paid.

Foreign Ministry officials are fighting what they see as a terrible and scary monster: the Palestinian public relations monster. Yet nothing can be done to defeat it, regardless of how many foolish inventions will be introduced and how many bright communication students will be hired.

The reason is that good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories prettier. Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved. Yet nonetheless, the Foreign Ministry wants to try to change the situation. And they have willing partners. “Where do I submit a CV?” wrote one respondent. “I’m fluent in several languages and I’m able to spew forth bullshit for hours on end.”

Anti-democratic initiative
Any attempt to plant talkbacks online must fail. Especially if the State is behind it. Not only because it’s easy to identify responses made on behalf of someone, but also because it’s anti-democratic. When the Israel Electric Company or other companies do it, it’s annoying. Yet when the State does it, it’s dangerous.

Imposters on behalf of the government are threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means.

Something worrisome is happening here lately. We see the accumulation of silencing attempts. The Nakba Law, the bill calling for a ban on protests outside the homes of politicians, Lieberman’s Loyalty Law, and the biometric information database. The free speech hunting season is on.

Thankfully we have the Internet, and it enables us to identify processes, discuss them, warn about them, and join forces against them. We can assume that soon we’ll see the establishment of a website opposed to this new initiative, unless such site already exists. Perhaps even a group on Facebook. I wonder whether all its members will be Foreign Ministry agents, or whether it will also include some real people.

This is not a police state: This is a thought-police state.