Fight British criminalisation of Republican POWs

national | rights, freedoms and repression | press release

Wednesday July 05, 2006 21:59

by RSF - Republican Sinn Fein

Republican Sinn Féin: 223 Parnell Street, Dublin /// 229 Falls Road, Belfast

POLITICAL STATUS FOR POLITICAL PRISONERS

Support the POWs

Fight British criminalisation of Republican POWs

ON June 19 in Maghaberry Jail, Co Antrim, Republican POWs began a protest, the first in a series of phased protests, making it clear that they will not accept the sub-standard conditions on the segregated wing and that they would not be criminalised, intimidated or coerced by the petty restrictions being imposed by prison screws to make the day-to-day life in the jail for POWs more difficult.

A statement, released from the OC, CIRA POWs, Maghaberry, on that day read:

"We, the Republican POWs, call on all nationalist and Republican people in Ireland and abroad to support us in our upcoming protest for better conditions and the restoration of political status. In 2003 we embarked on a protest for segregation, this battle was won and segregation was introduced in September of that year. At that time the Brits asked for a period of transition and conditions would then improve. These terms were accepted reluctantly by Republicans.

"However as in 1980 when our comrades in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh ended their first hunger-strike, we have found that the Brits are still incapable of honouring their promises. As a result we again find ourselves in the unfortunate position of having to embark on a prolonged protest. This has come about as a direct result of the intransigence of the Brits in seeking a policy of criminalisation. We hereby state that we as Republican POWs will no longer co-operate with nor accept the policies and regime imposed on us by Brit puppets.

"We have outlined our five demands. The protest which we now embark upon will not end until our demands are met. We will take whatever steps are necessary in order to improve the conditions not alone for ourselves, but also for those who may come behind us. I would therefore like to call on all Republican bodies, all politicians to back us in our plight. We have exhausted all avenues open to us. We gave the Brits the transition period required by them and still they refuse to accept that we are not criminals. We would ask everyone to support us by supporting our representatives on white-line pickets and leaflet hand-outs taking to the streets and demand that the Brits and their prison service sort this out once and for all."

On the same day the POW campaign group, the Republican Prisoners Action Group (RPAG), said that:
"Political status has been denied to Republican POWs since the implementation of the Stormont Agreement and as a result conditions, both for POWs and their families and visitors, have worsened considerably."

The RPAG was formed to highlight the conditions endured by the POWs and have met with the Human Rights Commission who accepted that their concerns were justified.

Issues of contention between the POWs and the British Prison Service include controlled movement which severely restricts contact between the POWs; the daily regime of between 18 and 23-hour lock-down; continual searching of cells and body searches; and the use of the drugs dog to control/deny visits and punish prisoners returning from parole.

The late Monsignor Faul, at the request of the RPAG, visited the Officer Commanding (OC) of the POWs and issued a report strongly criticising the regime and the conditions in which the men are forced to live. In October 2005 the British Inspectorate for Prisons issued a report which was also critical of a number of practices within the segregated regime in Maghaberry and yet the British Prison Service have done nothing to address these concerns, the statement said and continued: "The RPAG contributed a submission to the consultation process for the Separated Regime Review conducted by the British Prison Service. In their reply the British Prison Service failed to address any of the issues in a productive way."

The five demands of the POWs are:

Free association
Freedom of movement
Right to full time education
Separate visiting facility
Right to organise their own landing

VISITING CONDITIONS

When limited segregation was first introduced the British Prison Service agreed to build separate accommodation for visits. This has not been done and is not on the agenda.

In October 2005 the following procedures were introduced for visits:

Visitor shows photographic ID
Visitor gives fingerprint
Visitor stands against a wall and has their photograph taken
Visitor scans themselves (by their fingerprint)
Visitor passes the ‘sniffer dog’.

At the time the RPAG issued a statement outlining the safety concerns in relation to this process and the very real danger of this information being passed to loyalists. More recently the father of a POW has been prevented from visiting his son because he does not own photographic ID (He has neither a passport or driving licence).

RSF SUPPORT

In a statement on June 20 Republican Sinn Féin declared its support for the protest action of the Republican prisoners.

The statement said: "In this 25th anniversary year of the H-Block hunger strike, the British government must not be allowed to go back down the road of attempting to criminalise Republicans while they treat them in an inhumane manner.

"In addition to between 21 and 23 hour lock-up on alternate days there are constant strip searches. Prisoners are made to choose between daily exercise and education. They are denied facilities to enable them to organise their own education.

"The prisoners seek the right to free association on their own landings and an end to ‘controlled movement’. They are abused by the use of sniffer dogs to harass their visitors and themselves.

"Safe and secure visits are denied, family visitors are exposed to loyalist visitors and the prisoners themselves are exposed to loyalists while going to and from legal visits.

"Since Republican prisoners secured separation from loyalist and ordinary prisoners some years ago, they have been targeted for special reduced conditions. The mistakes of the past must not be repeated in 2006."

DRUGS DOG

Screws have been allowed to misuse their control of the prison dog to prevent visits between the POW and their visitors. Once the dog sits down beside a visitor, only a closed visit is on offer because the screws claim that the visitor has been in contact with drugs - no visitor has been found to have drugs in their possession.

The drugs dog is further used to punish POWs returning from parole. This has happened on a few occasions and the POW was sent to the punishment block for 48 hours.

FREE ASSOCIATION AND FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT

The POWs are not allowed either free association or freedom of movement resulting from the ‘controlled movement’ policy enforced on the segregated landings. This policy prevents any more than three prisoners being allowed out of their cells at any one time and requires a staff to prisoner ratio of 4:2 and/or 3:1. The POWs want freedom of movement at education/gym/exercise time. This would allow them engage in workshops and interaction with each other. If a POW goes to education class he forfeits his exercise time and visa versa due to the limited time he is unlocked (they are locked up between 18 and 23 hours a day).

PROTEST ESCALATES

On June 26 the Republican Prisoners Action Group (RPAG) outlined the second phase of the prison protest: "Republican POWs in Maghaberry will begin the second phase of their Prison Protest and will be refusing to eat meals in their cells. The RPAG would like to stress that the POWs are not on Hunger Strike.

"POWs on the segregated wing are denied access to canteen facilities and are forced to eat meals (next to the toilet) in their cells as a result of the ‘controlled movement’ policy operating on the landings. The RPAG consider that this policy of Controlled Movement as excessively restrictive".

SOLIDARITY FROM POWS IN PORTLAOISE PRISON

POWs in Portlaoise Prison expressed support for the Prison Protest and 22 of them took part in a 24-hour fast on June 28 in solidarity with their comrades in Maghaberry. They have indicated that this will continue each week for the foreseeable future and in a statement issued from Portlaoise have called for support for the POWs in Maghaberry in their fight to win back political status. On June 27 more prisoners joined the protest and support for their demands is growing. Since the announcement of the protest, messages of support have been received from groups and individuals across Ireland, Europe and the World.

One such statement of support came from EMGANN. On June 26 the Breton left independence group sent support to the Irish Republican POWs jailed in Maghaberry currently on protest.

Spokesperson Yannig Laporte, said: "Like them and the Republican Movement, we ask that the British government stop harassing Republican prisoners and stop the 21 and 23 hours lock-up in their cells. They should have the right to daily exercise and education, and should be separated from loyalists.

"Several people, in Brittany and other countries, remember Bobby Sands and his comrades’ struggle, and can’t understand that Irish POWs still suffer under hard prison regimes. It’s no time to criminalise the Republican movement, it’s time for political status, it’s time for self-determination!

"We ask people in solidarity with the Irish Republican cause to send protest letters to the British Embassy in France, 35 rue du Faubourg St-Honoré, 75383 Paris or phone 01 44 51 31 00." On June 29 the RPAG on behalf of the protesting POWs called on elements of the print and broadcast media to end their self-censorship of the Republican prison protest at Maghaberry jail. A special broadcast on Radio Ulster on June 28 from Magilligan Prison, Co Derry, about prison issues failed to even refer to the prison protest and numerous individuals, including Tony McPhillips of the RPAG, were refused air time.

"But Ministers, the Prison Ombudsman, numerous prison officers and ordinary prisoners were all permitted to express their views on the programme. The RPAG calls on all sections of the media to end their silence and begin publishing the daily human rights abuses of Republican prisoners that continue at Maghaberry jail."

RSF BELFAST SUPPORT

In a statement on June 28 Geraldine Taylor, Ard Chomhairle, Republican Sinn Féin, Belfast said that in 2006 Irish Republicans were still incarcerated for their political beliefs.

"In 1981 they were political prisoners and now in 2006 they are political prisoners. Political status is a right not a privilege.

"We like to call on all ex-prisoners’ group to come out and show their support for all political prisoners who are on protest in Maghaberry Concentration Camp. "We ask them to join in white-line pickets and any other protest organised by the Republican Prisoners Action Group and Republican Sinn Féin."

APPEAL FROM OC, REPUBLICAN PRISONERS, MAGHABERRY

"To the people of Ireland and abroad. I, as the OC of the CIRA POWs in Maghaberry concentration camp, would like to appeal to you for your support.

"As you are no doubt already aware Republican POWs have yet again been forced into a position of protest. Since the introduction of segregation in 2003 we have endured a policy of bigotry and sectarianism directed towards us from the British prison service.

"We have remained disciplined against all the odds in the belief rightly or wrongly that pressure from external groups would ensure change within this prison camp. To date however this has failed. All visitors to this camp have recognised and indeed stated that we are facing human rights abuses on a daily basis and indeed this camp has been likened to Auschwitz concentration camp.

"We as stated above remained disciplined in the face of adversity but we have exhausted all avenues available to us and now we have reached the end of the road where we feel that a form of protest is the only way forward.

"We have been locked up for up to 23 hours per day, we have no freedom of movement or association, no access to decent handicraft facilities nor full-time education.

"We are subjected to strip searches which are meant only to degrade us as at no time has any contraband been found.

"The British Northern Ireland Office (NIO) and prison service would have the people believe that they are under enormous pressure in order to hold us. They would also like you to believe through their recent reports that they are doing everything possible to ensure change. This is not the case.

"They failed to tell you that the cosmetic changes they are to introduce were in fact the very thing we have complained about for two years. They also failed to mention that external pressure was also bearing down on them.

"They have only in recent weeks abandoned one rub-down search but have recently built a strip-search facility. This strip-search facility has taken precedent over the new education block but that is no surprise.

"Family and friends of Republican POWs have routinely been forced to go without seeing their loved ones for weeks on end on the say so of the drugs dog and his handler. Republican prisoners have to endure cell searches in which we are abused verbally stand naked in front of screws face ridicule and sectarianism property destroyed, photographs of loved ones defaced and thrown on the ground, pictures of hunger strikers removed on political grounds. The conditions thrust upon us are a throw back to the 1970s.

"The Prison Officers Association (POA) and screws believe that because we are small in numbers that they can claw back what they lost in the 80s. We hereby state that we will resist at all cost, we will no longer allow the Brits to continue with the criminalisation policy.

"We as Republican POWs have at no time stated that we want a return to the H Blocks. This terminology is one adopted by the POA. The POA crawl out of the woodwork at times of trouble and cry looking for extra money. At no time have I heard any constructive remarks from these fools who purport to speak for ‘their’ officers.

"As of June 26 Republican POWs have been refusing to eat all meals in their cells. We have also withdrawn all co-operation from a system which seeks to criminalise us further. The struggle in which we are presently engaged is one which has been embarked on for generations. Republican POWs throughout Irish history have endured much suffering in order to retain or restore Political Status. Today is no different.

"The number of Republican prisoners although small, still believe that they too have the inalienable right to political status, to be treated as Prisoners of War. These men, mostly young and most with young wives and children at home, have endured months and in some cases many years bring tormented for their political beliefs. These young men have been through conveyor belt, arrested, charged and interned. Most of the cases against those arrested are later dropped, much later in some cases.

"However, those who are unfortunate enough to be serving long sentences have accepted it as part of the struggle. The struggle for freedom, for independence. They have found themselves in a prison camp established for one purpose and one purpose only, to break their spirits by means of mental and physical torture. The system in which we find ourselves ensnared is one built around institutionalised sectarianism and corruption, hatred and bigotry. One in which the screws are given a free hand to persecute us. The governors turn a blind eye, refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of our complaints.

"Well no longer. The Republican prisoners have had enough. We have stood together in unity and stated loud and clear for all to hear, all those who want to of course, that we will take no more. No more abuse. No more torture. No more discrimination. NO MORE!

"Almost 30 years ago on September 14, 1976 a protest against criminalisation began in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh. This protest ended with the deaths of ten brave men, who died so that others might benefit from the restoration of political status. Those Political Prisoners, like us today, had exhausted all avenues open to them, the Human Rights Commission, the Catholic Church and politicians.

"We the Republican POWs are calling on people to support us in our call for better conditions. We call for an end to the strip searches, an end to the discrimination, an end to the policy of eating in the toilet, end the lock ups and end the abuse of the drugs dog and to end the controlled movement.

"We have entered into this protest knowingly. We will not shirk our responsibilities and we remain steadfast in our beliefs. We ask you the people to support us in our calls for change, we do not expect you to support our political beliefs or convictions.

"We the Republican Prisoners in Maghaberry would urge the British government, the NIO and the prison service not to test our will or determination. We fully believe in our right to be held and treated as Political Prisoners of War. We will take whatever steps are necessary in order to achieve our demands." - OC CIRA, Maghaberry Concentration Camp

‘PRISONERS DID NOT SIGN COMPACT’

In response to a statement from the British Prison Service in a Belfast newspaper on June 30 that the prisoners in the segregated area of Maghaberry had signed a compact before being housed there, Geraldine Taylor, Ard Chomhairle, Republican Sinn Féin, Belfast said:

"Regarding the statement from the press officer at Maghaberry Prison in the Irish News on Friday, June 30 stating that all prisoners signed a document to accept conditions in the separated wing, we categorically deny that any prisoner who comes under the welfare of Republican Sinn Féin signed any such document, therefore they did not accept the conditions which they are forced to live under.

"The prisoners and their representatives have been fighting for change since they moved across, now we find that they have been forced to take the protest further to highlight their plight in their struggle to be recognised as POWs."

The RPAG said on July 2 that Republican POWs in Maghaberry do not have access to welfare visits from suitable representatives outside the jail. POWs must forfeit a family visit in order to communicate with those who represent them and since sentenced POWs only get one visit per week this has an adverse impact on family contact.

The group said that before the Separated Regime Review in May 2006 entitlement to Welfare Visits was restricted to MLAs, MPs and Councillors from political parties with a sitting MLA/ MP. The RPAG, in their submission to the Review, highlighted the inequality in this approach. Republican Sinn Féin are prevented from standing in Six-County council elections by the political test oath and the RPAG, who are in existence solely to highlight the issues for POWs within Maghaberry, are not a political organisation who would be standing in elections.

"The review altered this policy, presumably to create the impression that the matter had been considered. However the change was cosmetic, Councillors from political parties with no representation at MP/ MLA level now have access to welfare visits also.

"This clearly fails to address either of the objections the RPAG submitted to this policy and POWs remain in the position where their family contact must suffer in order that the discrimination, inequality and sub standard conditions forced upon them in Maghaberry can be highlighted.

"The RPAG calls on the British Prison Service to look again at this issue. To assess the inequality of their approach and to allow the POWs to have proper access to the group that represents them in the prison crisis.

"The RPAG calls on the public to give their support to the POWs at this time. The 1981 hunger strikers sacrificed themselves to improve conditions for those POWs who came after them and to ensure that political status was available to POWs as of right. No one can be justified in signing away the rights of others, however that is what happened in the Stormont Agreement, and the POWs are now in a position where they must begin the fight for political status again.

"They are relying on the Irish people to stand with them in their fight to improve conditions and ultimately to win back political status. The Irish people have never failed POWs in the past and we have faith that they will not fail them now."

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Comments (30 of 30)

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RSF and CIRA are traitors to this nation

by Cormac Eile

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:08

Lads, when will you stop and realise that this nation does not support your cause or your war.

This nation has time and again voted to support our constitution. Every single referendum, and very single election in this state demonstrates that the majority of the population support the Constitution. This means that you have NO MANDATE for what you are doing.

You will never succeed in bringing down the state of Ireland, and you will not succeed in changing the constitution, (except constitutionally!).

As far as I am concerned, the footsoldiers of your tinpot revolutionary army are stooges for gangsters engaged in prostitution, drug dealing, arms dealing, and provision of explosives to other gangsters. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Things have gone too far in the North. It is not a conflict in which you can establish a nationalist Irish idyll, just like the loyalists will never succeed in establishing a protestant state for a protestant people. Neither is possible. What is needed is a total change, and a new cutlural mythology that both sides can believe in together. Ultimately, we will not see British army off the streets until the people have a common culture. In the end the creation of a common culture is inevitable, but takes a long time. You idiots are simply prolonging the pain.

It is not about mutual respect and all that bollox. Both the nationalist and loyalist mythologies in the North are bankrupt and redundant. Neither can lead anywhere. All they can do is ensure that the next generation will hate just as much as this one. How can you want your children to grow up in a world like that? You have betrayed your own generation, and you are betraying the next generation too.

Lay down your arms and get a job, a family, and have some kids. Then go and make some loyalist friends, and plan how you can make a better society in Northern Ireland together. Northern Ireland will have to become a stand-alone state first, without the massive financial support that the UK provides before Northern Ireland can become a normal society.

Sunday Indo Fan

by Donnchadh

Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:39

Obviously a Sunday Indo reader. And, whats worse, one of the misled few who read it for more than a laugh.

Re: Cormac Elie

by By Any Means Necessary

Thu Jul 06, 2006 17:19

Your arguement is flawed. The Free state constitution was not ratified by all of the Irish people, you Freestaters left us six county Irish citizens out of the arrangement.

I find it disgusting that you can rewrite history in the name of 26 county nationhood. Where was your agnst and anger when your brothers and sisters were being oppressed in the aparthied state in the north of this island?

How dare you now, after ignoring human and social abuses by britain on this island, condemn those who had the courage to stand up to for their rights and military take on the occupying forces of oppression.

The traitors are those who left their fellow citizens to the mercy of the British war machine and their unionist allies.

Confused Cormac !

by Sharon - Individual

Thu Jul 06, 2006 17:45

Cormac Eile -

Your above post is so inconsistent and politically inaccurate that it is hard to know where to begin to comment on it .
The following two points from same made it clear to me that you are simply attempting to 'stir things' up on this thread -

"This nation has time and again voted to support our constitution."
What "nation" voted on that constitution , and when ?

"You will never succeed in bringing down the state of Ireland ."
Where does this "state of Ireland" exist ?

Your language , Cormac , is , to put it mildly , sloppy . You either have no idea how to express yourself politically or your political beliefs are beyond expression , even by yourself .

Sharon .

Now Now Lads

Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:21

I never said what I thought about British Occupation of the North. If you want to know, I think it was and remains a disgrace, and reveals Britain for the undemocratic and imperialist regime that it truly is. The Northern regime was and is bigotted, corrupt, and murderous.

There are several problems today apart from the paramilitary police force and the British Army. The fact that most cash revenue into Northern Ireland is in the form of public money means that if Northern Ireland got independence or unification with the South tomorrow, there'd be no indigenous revenue generation. Northern Ireland is more than just morally and politically bankrupt, it is financially bankrupt too.

With regard to what was I doing for my brothers and sisters in the North - nothing. I was a child for most of it.

With regard to the IRA. There is a strong argument for why the IRA was necessary at certain times. However their approach to the war was quite silly. Blowing up British civilians and soldiers was never going to achieve anything. This is because the British have plenty of both, and the British government don't give a shit how many of their people are killed or maimed. The sensible approach would have been to hit them where it hurt - money. Blowing up power cables and power stations would have been clever. The canary wharf bomb, which had minimal casualties achieved more than any of the atrocious attacks in which many innocent lives were lost. This is because it shut down London for quite a while. It lost them an unimaginable amount of money, because trading stopped. That was probably the only attack that made any difference. All the rest was just pissing in the wind.

But these days, it is widely known that the IRA, or at least former members are up to their neck in drugs and other criminal activities. And I would have a higher opinion of the IRA than CIRA. (although not much).

As far as I am concerned, IRA "fundraising" activities that transgress the law of this land, (the law as validated by multiple popular votes), are crimes, and must be punished through the courts of our independent judiciary. An independent judiciary isn't something the IRA or Sinn Fein (Or CIRA or any of the other nutters) would know much about. The McCartney sisters can tell you all about your kind of justice. Cover ups, lies, and murder.

The nation I referred to is the Irish Nation, as defined in Bunreacht na hEireann. You might try reading it sometime, as you are subject to it, and owe loyalty to it.

The state I refer to is also the state of Ireland. You'll also find this in Bunreacht na hEireann.

Sharon, you're lack of knowledge about your own constitution astonishes me. Where did you get your political training?

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm defending the validated constitution of this Republic, as any true democrat would. You on the other hand, are part of this loony group of totalitarian communists blinded by a bunch of gangsters, and getting off on being involved in pseudo dangerous activity.

Have a look at the history of those states that actually succeeded in establishing communism. I urge you to read about the Gulag. Have a look at North Korea. Have a look at Cuba, where Castro suppresses all criticism. If you think I'm just beating a right wing drum, you'll find it all on Amnesty's website. Furthermore, you'll find plenty of anti-war commentary from me on this site too.

And

Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:27

The Indo is a rag. It is a tabloid that doesn't know it should have a red-top. Fodder for the proles.

You party members should be careful with the Independent, it may cause you to commit a thoughtcrime.

Not a National Constitution

Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:48

Cormac, if you ever bothered to read your Bunreacht na hÉireann, it defines the nation as all 32 counties, or in the post GFA version all the people of the island of Ireland, not just the little free state that you seem so proud of. Not that this is a real constitution of the Irish nation, since six counties were barred from voting for it.

Not a national constitution by its own definition

Thu Jul 06, 2006 21:06

Indeed, by its own definition of the Irish nation, i.e. all the people of the island of Ireland, the so called Bunreacht na hÉireann could not be a national constitution since only 26 counties were allowed to vote for it.

Approval rate of only 38.6% even in 26 counties

Thu Jul 06, 2006 21:42

In fact even within 26 counties the approval for this Bunreacht na hÉireann was dismal. Of a total electorate of 1,775,055 the number of those who didnt vote was 428,848. Of the total poll of 1,346,207 the number of spoilt votes was 134,157. The number of votes against was 526,945 and for was 685,105. So of a total electorate of 1,775,055 only 685,105 voted for this constitution - that is an approval rate of only 38.6%. You add in the missing votes from the six counties and its incredible that anyone could refer to this as a national constitution.

26 county unionism

Thu Jul 06, 2006 22:03

Just goes to show that the republican struggle for national independence and a 32 county workers republic has to defeat 26 county unionism. Though this appalling ideology has little support among the working class majority on this island, it seems to be deeply ingrained in the failed political elite.

Ironically "west brit" socialists and free state little irelanders, can show solidarity with oppressed people in other areas of the world, such as palestine, yet forget their own citizens in the six counties. This amnesia of the realities of the british occupation was one of the deliberate policies of partition, it always shocks me how ignorant some irish people are of their recent history. How some of the failed political elite and their supporters just ape the ignorance and right wing politics of the british media.

Then again for the 26 county ruling class and their allies ignorance is bliss and ignorant platitudes and sound bites are easy replacements for political action...as a popular song from my way starts.."Take it down from the mast, irish traitors..."

We're building the Republic without you.

Confused AND conned , Cormac .

by Sharon - Individual.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 22:29

Cormac Eile -

Donnchadh and 'Any Means Necessary' replied to your daft reply before I could get there - your political philosophy is born out of a partitionist mentality , and any poster that reminds you that six of our counties remain under foreign jurisdiction is to be verbally belittled by you for doing so , and then dismissed as "a communist . "

You stated - " Sharon, you're lack of knowledge about your own constitution astonishes me. "
You bandy the words "Irish constitution......Irish nation......Irish people ....etc" around in your posts as if the six county issue was not a live one . Sloppy , Cormac . As expected .

Sharon .

by RPAG white line picket

Thu Jul 06, 2006 22:45

Republican Prisoners Action Group have organised a white line picket to take place on the Falls Rd this Saturday , 8 July. The RPAG will be assembling outside the RSF offices 229 Falls Road at 2 pm sharp . Support the prisoners!!!!!

support

by Barry - 32csm

Thu Jul 06, 2006 23:59

32CSMs national executive and the IRPWA have instructed their membership to support the RPAG picket on saturday . Should be there meself .

38.6%

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:41

This percentage means nothing out of context.

You must present this figure in the context of other plebiscites. What is the average turnout of a total electorate. What is the standard percentage of spoiled votes? In a weighted average, what "real" percentage would this represent?

The facts are that even if the North had been able to vote for this constitution (and I would have loved it if it had been possible), it would still have passed, as the loyalists would have not voted against it (based on the supposition that if forced into a vote, they'd have voted for the less of two evils, or would have abstained). The nationalist vote would have been split. It is highly unlikely that a different result would have been achieved in the North.

Therefore, given that the consitution laid claim to all 32 counties, and it was passed by a majority of the electorate who voted, it is the duly mandated constitution of the entire island of Ireland.

Furthermore, every time a plebiscite has been held under this constitution, the voters (whether the voted for or against the measure in question), gave a renewed mandate to this constitution, as laws in this state are made and passed under the constitution.

To suggest otherwise is to ignore the repeatedly expressed will of the people. So much for your democratic credentials.

6 County Issue

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:54

The 6 County issue is of course a live one.

However, your approach to its resolution is fundamentally stupid, and politically and militarily naive.

Exactly what do you expect the loyalist and unionist people to do if you succeed in forcing them into a 32 county republic?
Exactly what do you expect the people who live in the 26 counties to do when you propose forcing them into a 32 county republic?
How are you going to deal with the fact that the 6 counties are actually bankrupt, with almost no revenue being generated at home?

The realities of actually providing a life and a living for the people of the north seem to completely escape you. You have dreams of a gloriously united nation, one people under the sun, but neglect to deal with the realities.

The logical extension of your policies are to ultimately engage in a complete reversal of the current situation, where the other population in the North are oppressed. Serve them right you might think, but the fact is that we'll then be fighting a different flavour of the same war.

What is needed is a complete change from the politics of today and yesterday. A new future and a new joint identity is required. Without it, the same old divisions and bigotry will continue.

Religion must be pulled back somewhat, and removed entirely from the educational sector, (as it should be in all democracies as it is a severely destabilising force in heterogeneous populations).
Northern Ireland must secure independence and it must operate as an independent state for a time long enough to build a joint identity internally.
The Northern economy must be radically overhauled, as currently it is completely dependent upon British handouts.

In this way, if a mandate could be secured from the people, a peaceful and prosperous future is possible. The current polarising politics can never secure peace.

Do you want your children and their children's children to be fighting this same conflict?

Despite what you think, you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Democratic credentials???

Re: Cromac

How can you speak of democracy when your political stance has been to support a 26 county statelet in total ignorance of the national democracy which demands a 32 county republic?

The twists and turns of your arguement does not conceal the fact that this 26 county little irelander idealogy is anti the irish nation: denying national democracy to all of her citizens and pro-british interference in Ireland.

You've seen the figures, deal with them. However I am certain that your idealogy cannot accept the fact that the Antrim is as irish as Athlone and the only borders which legally exist in this country and which we should recognise is the, north sea, the irish sea and the atlantic.

Again I ask all of you freestaters, where was your anger and action when irish citizens were being discriminated against, butchered and forced into exile?

Uncle Thomais's the lot of you.

Re: to your last post

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:57

Our Revenge will be the laughter of all our children in a 32 county Irish workers republic, any deviation of this will be a betrayal to future generations...which you've already sold out to.

By any means

Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:05

I already answered you as to what I was doing - I was a child. I doubt if I could have even lifted a bag of fertilizer into a pub. Could you?

Workers Republic - what a load of codswallop. Name one of these so called Republic's that have worked? Plenty have existed. I presume you're talking about the standard one-party, property is theft utopias? Good luck with that, enjoy the gulag, and the rapid descent of the entire society into poverty, disease, and starvation.

Geographic boundaries are not moral justifications or logical foundations for political borders. It is nonsensical to suggest that purely because our shorelines exist our borders should extend to them. We should have a single state on this island because it makes the greatest sense for the greater good of all the people on this island. This will only work if all people are committed to a single constitution.

I have already outlined why Bunreacht na hEireann is the duly mandated constitution of this entire island.

Incidentally, there is only on Oglaigh na hEireann too, and that is the army of the republic, as described under Bunreacht na hEireann. All others are pretenders to the title.

Re: Cormac

Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:22

The only "gulags" I have seen in ireland are those imposed by the British state and the pro-union allies in the 26 counties.
Your arguement is based on a falsehood Cormac, that falsehood is that the 26 counties can call itself the Irish state. It is not, it is a divided partitioned statelet, which has only served to line the pockets of an elite which has by its lack of action on partition, betrayed the irish working class.

" The Irish working class must emancipate itself and, in emancipating itself, it must perforce, free its country...This necessitates a political system of the most absolute democracy and in establishing that necessary political system, the working class must grapple and destroy every vestige of every form of government which could interfere with the most unfettered control by the people of Ireland of all the resources of their country.." James Connolly

That is the Workers Republic that will allow the freedom of the irish working class and which will be established by the majority on the island the irish working class.

By Any Means...

Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:54

What are you on about? This statelet as you call it is an active democracy, and the people do and will change governents that the majority don't like.

James Connolly, while a great man, was a man of his time. He projected a society based on theories that hadn't yet been attempted in the real world.

It is very easy to make statements to the effect that there should be unfettered control by the people of Ireland of all its resources through absolute democracy.

Explain to me what you mean by "Absolute Democracy", and "unfettered control".

Show to me a state or regime on this planet today or in history that has successfully implemented such a policy.

The fact is that democracy is, for practical purposes, an excercise in compromise. The majority give a minority authority to act on their behalf, because it is more efficient. The minority do form an elite, but the foundation is of the people, and the people may remove that authority by constitutional means - through electing other governments that more accurately reflect the will of the people.

This is a good way of managing a state, as it allows the government to evolve as the values of the people evolve, and it maintains various elements necessary to good governance - an independent judiciary, freedom of speech, peace, stability, economic growth. It is flawed, and does give rise to some injustice. The best method of dealing with these injustices, particularly of a social and economic variety is through education and political involvement under the aegis of the current constitution.

All other forms of governance have been shown to be even more deeply flawed. Communism has always failed, and is even more subject to the iron rule of an elite. More benigh socialism has also failed, as you'll note that all Scandinavian countries have changed their approach since almost bankrupting themselves with social policies that degraded economic performance. (The exception is Norway, but they have had petrochemical wealth in abundance).

So, tell, me, exactly how would your workers republic be governed? How would prosperity be maintained or grown? How would citizens have influence over their government, and how would they remove bad governments? How would the tyranny of an elite be prevented?

Real democracy

Fri Jul 07, 2006 14:29

A workers republic society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. that means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations.

To quote from the CPI :

"It is the challenge for the left to come forward with proposals to break the all-embracing social partnership, which ranges from the extreme-right Progressive Democrats, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, to the Labour Party, ICTU, unemployed organisations, and the poverty industry.

Because of the casualisation of work, the fragmentation of the working week, and the relentless introduction of seven-day trading, workers and their families are deprived of collective rest and recreation. This is putting great stress on family relations, to the detriment of society. The trade unions should demand that the headlong rush into a consumer society be halted by ensuring that (taking into account the need for essential services) the long-fought-for right of workers to adequate rest and leisure be restored and defended."

However this campaign by workers organisations will never occur while this nation is divided.

Your right wing rhethoric is denying the right of irish workers control of the economy and real democracy.

Re: apology

Fri Jul 07, 2006 14:34

The original article is about the criminalisation of Irish POW in six county jails.

Support for them is vital and my opinions on theory and the future should not detract from our solidarity for their struggle.

Support the Prisoners of War, an injury to one is an injury to all.

So called POWs

Fri Jul 07, 2006 15:47

Anyone in jail today for acts related to so-called republicanism and loyalism committed since the Good Friday Agreement, and the referenda North and South, are not acts of revolution done with the mandate of the people, but are crimes. The people spoke in that referendum, and it was held North and South of the border. Therefore, anyone acting contrary to that agreement is a traitor to the people.

You still haven't answered as to how such a "Workers Republic" would maintain a prosperous economy.

I agree that modern society has eroded the quality of life for all in this land. This is a serious problem. I am a worker in this state, and I've worked my arse off over the last ten years, and while I was lucky enough to get a house, I am one of many "mortgage slaves", and I'm looking at a bleaker series of years to come, as there is another interest rate rise around the corner. However, I don't see that the kind of "Workers Republic" that you envision would be able to provide a better life for me and my family, or for the Irish people in general.

You say that your "Workers Republic" would address these issues, and specifically the erosion of the social fabric (time off, family life, etc). You don't address the specific architecture of the society and economy that would support this. In the absence of such a structure plan, your rhetoric is empty and devoid of meaning.

Come on, fill me in. I am open to debate by the way, I'm not just trying to shoot you down, (no pun intended), I am intersted to try to understand how your organisation would organise society. I'm also interested to know how you intend to bring this society about. Will it be by democratic process or violent revolution?

New Form of Society Needed

Fri Jul 07, 2006 17:56

Cormac you are still ignoring that this Bunreacht na hÉireann defines its self as a national constitution but was only supported by a minority even in 26 counties - you make a lot of if and maybes but that is the simple fact. Again by its own definition of the Irish nation it could not be called a national constitution as six of Ireland's counties were prevented from voting for or against it. As for you GFA - it didnt offer any real choice at all. The only question was will you accept continued partition until such time as the British and Unionists drop their threat of "immediate and terrible war." Nobody was allowed to answer the most obvious question. Do you want to live in a 32 county Republic? One thing I do agree with you on, however, is that we need a completely new form of society. Not a reform of the old failed one. This is RSF's position.

As for the Unionists, unfortunately, like all colonist populations, they will hang on to their connection with the metropolitan power until such time as the metropolitan power says that enough is enough. What we need is a British DeGaulle who will stand up to the outdated demands of the colonists. Only then will Unionists be freed from the timewarp in which they find themselves.

Republican P.O.WS Off the Point

by cropbeye - Immigrant support & fair trade

Mon Jul 10, 2006 23:08

cropbeye at yahoo dot com

Cork City

I am not a suporter of C.I.R.A and I do not share the R.S.F analysis. However we are missing something in dealing with the prisoners
issue.When young men (mostly) experience interface violence crazy groups like Orange Lodges being taken seriously in this day & age
and pandered to in the establishment as well as see their urban landscape sprinkled with so called peace lines and watch towers some
will always be attracted to set out on a militaristic path. If in prison they are humiliated , their families put through comunal punishment
their intellect insulted they are only going to be encouraged to stay resolute in their minds . Their is a tradition of prisoners with political
motivation in this country not cracking.When they are eventually let out they and their small group of motivated supporters will only all the
more be convinced that thier tactics are the only way. Do we really want to end up with a situation approching Guatanamo Bay here? So
if we think that society on this island is capable of something better their is an incumbancy on the authorities both North and South to
not repeat the mistakes of the past and use methods of coercion violence censorship and public indifference and have issues in the
prisons swept under the carpet.The young men (mostly) if they are and we are to have a future need to be able to have facilities where others can talk to them and try and reach them and they need to have chances for self improvement. Aggression and violence frightens us
all but what society community of family is completly free? The vast magority of these men are not involved in criminality for profit and the
overwhelming number of them would have hardly any contact with drugs. Simplyfying the political circumstances of the day and the effort
to throw away the key and forget about some prisoners is not a solution to a set of problems it is only putting it in the deep freeze. If these
men get some consideration and some time to think I think they may notice that like myself however theoretical purism is attractive the
pattern in history is that factionalism and splits only benifit the most reactionary British elements and Loyalist irredentists. We must all
try to have a situation that in spite of differences we have that the cold war between groups though and learn from all our mistakes. It dosnt have to be all fluffy.What I mean is that all retain respect be they W.P S.F R.S.F or Labour. i feel that I can ignore noone and deny the possibiliy of a future to any one in the community.

by Dan

Thu Jul 13, 2006 18:55

It is very important that all Socalists and Republicans are seen to be out supporting the prisoners
and there protest.
Also to those who have said that the Republican movement will never bring down the state and that the Irish people support and have allways faught for the 26 county Free State...
Well thats just rubbish,the Republic was hijacked by the Free state when they won the civil war.
It is the Irish Socallist Republic of Pearce and Connally that the Irish people faught and died for over the last hundred years.
Here is what happened in 1922 in case youve forgotten. The Brits handed power over to the Free Staters, if the Republicans had won they would have invaded again.
The Free Staters seized control of the 26 counties and ran the country exactly as the Brits had with the rich in charge and the poor treated like shit.
This is all very well illistrated in the new film The Wind That Shakes The Barley.
Oh,and to that fellow who was giving out about repression in socallist states,I have some news for him,anyone who actively campaigns against the government here is ruthlessly taken care of by the Gardaí.Yesterday the Sprecial Branch came to my house and attacked me and my familly

sick to the pit of my stomach with bar talk

by MacDomhnach óg - Human Kind

Mon Jul 17, 2006 01:37

HOW DARE any one bog them selves in to a school yard "I know more than you" constitutional bull shit argument when theres a hundred or more women pining for their husbands sons and brothers, when wee women young and distraught are telling wee kids that daddys alright when in her head all she can think is where this protest will lead, i dont give a monkeys fuck who agrees with the continuity or not Fr Denis Faul didnt he stood against every thought O Bradaigh ever had but in his honesty he even seen the disgusting conditions imposed on men who hold that undauntable thought my friend the thought that says they're right, remember that cormac?, Bobby sands wrote alot of poems i recall his poem entitled Danny Lennon about a young volunteer killed by a brit bullet in a car, while dead behind the wheel the car, out of controll tragically killed people out shopping-catholic people-west Belfast people, 100,000 men and women assembled under the name the "Peace People" and tramped the IRA fallen in to the Stoop down dirt, You have no support they cried you have no mandate they begged but Sands fought on then he was captured they called him terrorist and criminal he did not listen as he was a man of conviction the boys in maghaberry are also men of conviction the O.C clearly states his understanding of differensiating political views and declares he wants no one to "change sides" all he wants is his human rights so stop with your indoctrined tittle tattle and get out with coiste na iar-chimi Tar isteach provisional Sinn Féin even the church join the pickets what are yous all afraid of seeing the light? its not that scary An phoblacht Abú

Mon Jul 17, 2006 02:00

Heres Constitution For Ya

by MacDomhnach óg - not fine gael anyway

Mon Jul 17, 2006 02:16

Participation in any partitionist government i.e Dail/stormont is strictly forbidden any member of oglaigh na heireann in breach of this order will cease to be a member of oglaigh na heireann- so there we have it the free state army are a pack of dissidents jesus cormac hide its starting to rain on your fantasy parade and you might get you wee head wet, i'd invite you up here but theres a crowd of lunitics running about with RPG7s and according to newsline they're not to keen on free state facists oh by the way up the RA i love them. childish? yes True? yes what can i say im an infintile realist

MacDomhnach óg youre right

Wed Jul 26, 2006 17:12

MacDomhnach óg,youre right.
there is too much of this bar stool talk.
Now is the time for action!
lets get together and support the prisoners,there might well me a march to the British Embassy and we could do a good o'Connall st. job!!
TIOCHFIDH ÁR LÁ !!!!

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