éirígí campaign gathers momentum

by Dervish Bruswell Fri Jun 09, 2006 21:16

Perhaps you would explain your apparent departure from Sinn Fein. Your group contains many Sinn Fein members who were very active and now they are involved in a new organisation. Is this a campaign group within Sinn Fein?
Best wishes anyhow and keep up the good work in Reclaiming the Proclamation.

by radar Fri Jun 09, 2006 23:28

Fascinating new SF splinter group. Let's hope the comments on this article aren't just a load of fictional individuals saying how great Eirigi are.

A few questions: is anyone in Eirigi not a former member of SF?

How will you cope with a load of people who have split for completely different reasons? There are bound to be disagreements.

by Starchild Fri Jun 09, 2006 23:29

Do you really think the proclamation needs this sort of distribution? There was one in my school when I was a kid, hung with pride. It didn't make any difference to the brutally oppressive regime there.

by Fidelista Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:03

Another splinter. Surely the republican socialists need to pull together into a broad electoral fron that can fight the neo-liberal consenses. The IRSP, Eirigi, CPI and other groups need to leave their difference behind and give the working class a party that will not sell them out.

by Seán Mac Stiofán Sun Jun 11, 2006 18:49

Is that Stewart Reddin I recognise in the first pricture above? Dublin Organiser of SF? And the other man, Brian....?

Are members of SF involved? Or have these individuals above left SF?

by Mod Mon Jun 12, 2006 00:54

If Stewart Reddin is involved the whole thing must have head office approval. Poor aul' Stew wouldn't have the ability to go it alone. I wonder if this is a SF front to try and keep some of the younger activists involved. With SF losing so many activists maybe this is their latest cunning plan.

by Dervish Bruswell Mon Jun 12, 2006 01:09

Its about time this group declared their identity. plenty of cash for posters and web sites. familiar faces and yet nobody knows why they are using this new name.

by Tut tut Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45

The republicans involved in this new group have left Sinn Fein. I dont believe any of their members are still in the party. There has been an awful lot of nonsense given as reasons for why they left the party however I haven't heard anything directly from them as to why they left.

Perhaps it is time for them to tell us why they left?
And as for the campaign growing momentum, perhaps the PRO would be able to tell us exactly how it is growing?
How would handing out the free posters contribute to debate in the manner that they say?
How is it a socialist campaign to do this?

by Alfie Yeates Mon Jun 12, 2006 18:36

I have just come acroos the Eirigi site and its very left wing. However, the individuals on this site ( in photos) are Sinn Fein stalwarts and unless SF threw them out ,I cannot see the link. Nobody leaves SF in 2006 over their policies. Whatever about Sunningdale for slow learners, are we to believe these people are practically retarded. SF policies haven't changed in 10 years.

Editor: Serious unsubstantiated allegation removed. If you want to make such allegations, you must provide evidence

by conor b Mon Jun 12, 2006 22:03

I say well done to the lads for putting themselves out there. I think it is a good campaign. Best of luck with it.

by Tut tut Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:14

These people were not kicked out of sinn fein, they left. As for the site being very left wing give me a break, its a nationalist campaign not a socialist one. These people have no socialist credibility apart from rhetoric, none of them were known as being particularly left wing in Sinn Fein and they are not going to change their beliefs so rapidly. This campaign group will have collapsed within a year.

by Conor b Tue Jun 13, 2006 20:12

Well done Tut tut. I admire your courage in hiding behind a pseudonym. Those shifty rascals who put pictures of themselves on the internet for the whole world to see could really learn a thing or two about honesty from you. I also wish to heartily congratulate you on your cynical dismissal of what seems to be a fairly honourable campaign. It's an awful pity more people wouldn't rubbish the proclamation without realising that there is more to it than just national liberation. You are indeed a political genius.

by Tomás mac Cormaic Tue Jun 13, 2006 21:40

Its great to see another group emerge into the national arena, who support a 32 county Irish republic and the ideas that the men of 1916 gave their lives for. While many might describe their entrance as futher factioning of the already split republican base, I personally see this as a beginning to a new era, which will be spearheaded by small republican/nationalist groups, similar to the the Dungannon Clubs, the Wolfe Tone clubs and the many nationalist groups who existed at various stages in our troubled history.

It is important that the various Republican/Nationalists groups support one another, rather than become involved in the petty fighting that has been going on for the past number of years. No individual group at present has the capability or the man-power to totally promote and achieve a United Ireland politically, so any group that is willing to assist in building a new support base, must be welcomed for the longterm good of our nation.

by Dervish Bruswell Tue Jun 13, 2006 22:27

In the interest of Truth & Honesty, these people must express thmselves before I get involved. Why did the establish another group if they are Sinn Fein members? Why have they not held a Public Launch so we could all participate?
If they are genuine, lets hear it from themselves and not from idle speculators.

by Tut tut Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:59

This campaign is a joke, it achieves absolutely nothing. It is the kind of campaign that you would expect secondary students to come up with. This campaign is not a socialist campaign, the people involved in this group would only be described as social democrats and as for the pseudonom welcome to indymedia. This campaign group will have disappeared into the wilderness like so many other mediocre campaign groups that have set up over the years. The sheer lack of any socialist thought from this group amazes me, it is absolutely pathetic. The people leave the party and all they are left with is rhetoric and absolute naivety.

by John Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:06

In the current political climate its no harm that a group decided to distribute the Proclaimation, particularly highlighting its radical content and promoting ideas like cherishing all the children equally. As a starting point I would argue that, in the year of the anniversary of 1916, a gentle reminder that this was on of the principles the Republic was founded on cannot be a bad thing. What the group decide to do as their next activity will be most interesting. I would follow up on a campaign highlighting the areas of society where children are unequal - where governments have failed to cherish the children equally.

by Pól D Wed Jun 14, 2006 15:16

Just like to make some broad points in response to some of the comments made by "tut-tut".

"This campaign is a joke, it achieves absolutely nothing".

- Perhaps the fact that you yourself did not come up with the idea has you stamping your feet. Your accusations of childishness on the part of this group ring hollow given your own childish rantings.

"It is the kind of campaign that you would expect secondary students to come up with".

- And what exactly is wrong with that tell me. Some of the most radical and committed republicans were but teenagers or of college going age.

"This campaign is not a socialist campaign, the people involved in this group would only be described as social democrats"

- That is your take on it. However there are those who would argue that the Proclamation was and is a revolutionary document. Surely as a republican you agree that it was the founding document of the Irish Republic and that all republican groups since then have fought for it to be upheld.

"and as for the pseudonom welcome to indymedia".

- Indeed.

"This campaign group will have disappeared into the wilderness like so many other mediocre campaign groups that have set up over the years."

- Time will tell. Maybe you should open your mind a little.

"The sheer lack of any socialist thought from this group amazes me, it is absolutely pathetic. The people leave the party and all they are left with is rhetoric and absolute naivety."

- You appear from this and earlier posts to have issue with the fact that this group is masquerading as a socialist group when in fact you believe them to be a nationalist group. I can only judge them on what i seen so far - that is the website and the campaign. The website appears to have quite a socialist republican flavour to it. The campaign from a left wing perspective is radical in its simplicity. When was the last time a left republican group set out to distribute copies of the Proclamation on a not for profit basis. Does the concept of educate, agitate and organise have any resonance with you "Tut-Tut".

On a broader level i think as has been pointed out in earlier posts any group or individuals that set about promoting republicanism has to be welcomed. I think the type of guttersnipe response from the like of "tut-tut" does the republican cause a great disservice. By all means people can disagree - but i fail to see how anyone claiming to be a republican can take such an antagonistic approach to this initiative. Personally i will keep my mind open as this group develops. Having not been politically active for some years i think they certainly appear to have the potential to bring some fresh and imaginative thinking to left republicanism in the city. Good luck to them.

by Tut tut Wed Jun 14, 2006 15:34

Here we go again and still no answers to my questions from the group. Is this the level of "engagement" that we can expect from the group.

The fact of the matter is that the members of this group have been active in Sinn Fein for several years. They left, without any public statement why, and the campaign they come up with has all the political immaturity that one could expect given the socialist credentials of some of the members.

Give people some credit, there are fascists who at some levels appear to have a socialist flavour to their positions, it does not make them socialists. De Valera speeches before he can into power had a level of socialist rhetoric also. It is by actions that we judge people and this action is a nationalist action not a socialist one. The sheer idiocy of thinking that by handing out proclamations you can stir up political debate on a future republic is not radical in its simplicity it's simple idiocy. The idea that the people involved in the group will bring something new to activism is also quite deluded, they didn't bring anything new into their previous activism and they wont bring anything new to activism as a new group.

What next the CPI handing out free communist manifesto's. With actions like these we must only be hours away from the revolution.

Also why are Erigi not repsonding to any of the comments? or are they pretending to be non members when commenting?

by Barry - 32csm Wed Jun 14, 2006 15:41

no doubt because eirigí doesnt subscribe to whatever doctrinal school of marxism / trotskyism whatever we'll now be told by tut tut that there is no socialism in their appraoch, its nationalism , quasi-facist nazism , 1916 putsch etc etc etc ad nauseum .

Heard it all before

by Tut tut Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:21

No doubt if their brand of republicanism doesn't meet the pure and true standard of the 32csm they will be called traitors, brit agents, west brits, etc, etc, etc

First thing on the agenda will be a split.... groan!

by Barry - 32csm Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:40

32CSMs strategy calls for engagement among all republicans . Youve just made that up off the top of your head as an attempt at a witty comeback .

by Shipsea Wed Jun 14, 2006 18:41

Handing out copies of the proclamation is a brilliant and timely idea - a much needed reminder of all that was lost when the socialists were defeated by the fascists who have more or less been running the country ever since. With the death of one of the most corrupt politicians the country has seen, and all the revisionist bullshit that is filling the newspapers and the airwaves, we could do with getting back to basics. Reading the proclamation now, many people must feel with a pang how far from those ideals we have ended up - greed and corruption being the order of the day - much as they have always been where Fianna Fail are concerned.

Robert Fisk has said that it's time to fight and this pacifist is beginning to think he's right. Ireland was subverted to the interests of middle class business people, essentially. Social injustice in the South and political injustice in the North were smelly problems requiring integrity and courage to confront where none was available. Instead we have villified the victims. The pattern is the same the world over. We look on now as Iraq, Afghanistan and probably Iran are brutally razed. We think its not our affair to defend those people, just as we persuaded ourselves in the South that the plight of people in the North was not our affair either. How much has to happen before we raise a voice or a hand to stop it? To defend yourself from all this is to be labelled a terrorist. Eirigi have got it right - we need to wake up to what is happening.

by Barry - 32csm Wed Jun 14, 2006 20:55

I believe the answer to that is yes . The 1916 proclamation is a progressive document and distributing it asking people to reclaim its message is a progressive move .
The 1916 proclamation heralded the beginning of a revolutionary process with many progresive forces coming to the fore , as did the elections of 1918 and the Declaration of Independence and Democratic programme which came with that . 1922 witnessesed the beginning of a counter revolution that did not end with the civil war but carried on with DeValeras ascension to power . DeValera enthusiastically took up the reins of that counter revolution and drove it on . Over the space of 2 decades the tide of progressive revolutionary politics in Ireland was turned back and smashed and driven underground by negative corrupt and conservative forces whose successors remain in power today with the same negative agenda. The states on this island we inhabit today are both products of that prolonged counter revolution , particularly the 26 cos . With the rise of this group and others , with the reawakening of interest and radicalisation that is on the up throughout the country due to the lack of democracy and sovereignty on this island we again have a chance to roll back that counter revolution and implement what should have been ours by right , a sovereign independent Ireland with the interests of all its people first at the centre of its democracy and constitution . Our resources , our people our territory and our neutrality are all central to our sovereignty as a a nation . Without our sovereignty we are defenceless , powerless playthings for others , we own nothing , we can defend nothing .
Sovereignty in all its forms is central to the 1916 proclamation . If all certain elements on the left can do is sneer then they are not progressive but simply reactionary and irrelevant to the struggle for a sovereign nation . Theres a country of our own to win out there and as progressives of whatever hue its there for the taking .
If elements on the left and elsewheree wish to carry on with their obsessions with ideological purity and conformity its up to them . But getting to grips with the task of acheiving national sovereignty and democracy and all that entails will go on regardless .

by Tut tut Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:38

And there is still no answer from Eirigi to the questions.

Barry these people wanted nothing to do with the 32csm when they were in Sinn Fein and they will want nothing to do with 32csm still. As for your for your little rant the 32csm are completely irrelevant to the national struggle as Eirigi is. But keep calling yourselves relevant and socialists I'm sure somebody might believe you. Maybe Bertie, I heard he was a socialist in a republican party

by Barry Thu Jun 15, 2006 13:09

as opposed to anonymous sneering tends to be a bit more progressive . Tell us a bit about yourself and your relevance to the national strugle then tut tut . Im all ears .

by Jonah - Sinn Féin (Personal capacity) Thu Jun 15, 2006 14:22

A bit taken aback at some of the vehemence directed towards these comrades, and simply because they left Sinn Féin, as republicans and socialists I consider them comrades as I would others in different groups.

I would strongly disagree with their political analysis, which I believe to be deeply flawed, and the decision they have taken to leave the party, but I wouldn't question their genuine commitment to republican socialism and I doubt there is a member of Sinn Féin who knows them who would either.

As for distributing 5,000 Proclamations, no, it's not going to lead to a worker's revolution in the morning, and I'd be a little surprised to see the group still in existence 12 months from now, but I can only see a positive outcome from members of the public being given Proclamations and exposed to one of republicanism's founding texts.

I don't think belitting people for handing out free copies of the Proclamation impresses many people. I think they could be doing more in Sinn Féin than outside of it, but they don't agree and that's fair enough. They're still working to bring about progressive political change in this country and that is a good thing.

Calling for public statements is a bit much. The simple facts are that these people left Sinn Féin. They had their reasons, I don't think they were good enough, but they had them and were certainly able to articulate them. If people inside Sinn Féin didn't know what their opinions were, they weren't listening.

by Left Republican - none Thu Jun 15, 2006 14:47

I think the Proclamation is a novel and interesting way of using the 1916 anniversary to raise the difference between Ireland of today and the ideals of 1916 so its not a waste of time. That said having checked the Eirigi website Im not really clear on what the differences are with SF, other than a more explicitly Republican Socialist flavour. I think it would clarify things if a member of the new organisation explained why they felt it necessary to leave the party and set up a new group.

by Toot toot Thu Jun 15, 2006 18:31

Interesting post from Jonah there, simply because he didn't denounce the activists who have recently left his party and accuse them of various sins. You don't see that very often, fair play...

by Commisar - Sinn Fein Thu Jun 15, 2006 19:20

As soon as we can identify Jonah we'll be sending him to a re-education camp.

by tom eile Thu Jun 15, 2006 19:43

I don't know why these people left Sinn Fein either , but they should make their position clear on whether they support the GFA or not. During the referendum campaign all the Sinn Fein people I knew voted against the GFA while the leadership were publicly endorsing it. The GFA was presented to PSF members at the time as a trick being played on stubborn unionists which would allow republicans to say that they had tried everything , including the abandonment of the territorial claim, to reach an accomodation .When unionists inevitably rejected the hand of peace ,the whole world would be able to see who was really to blame for all the strife over the past thirty years . Britain would then move towards joint authority and that would lead to Irish unity . I think the penny has finally dropped for many rank-and-file republicans :
that the trick was really on them .
At the "Where Next for Republicans" public meeting held in Dublin last month , somebody asked what would be the response of Sinn Fein members to a Fianna Fail / Sinn Fein coalition . From what I have heard ,at least one PSFcumman has already voted to disband in the event of such a coalition and others are expected to follow suit. Within PSF it has become increasingly difficult to disguise to the membership what is apparent to everyone outside of the party : that the leadership has reached an accomodation with British rule in the six counties and has recognized the legitimacy of the free state ,just as cumman na gael , Fianna Fail and the stickies did.
This eirighi initiative should be welcomed ,but only if the people involved are prepared to make a political reckoning and account to the broader republican movement of why they felt it neccessary to leave PSF.

by Dervish Bruswell Thu Jun 15, 2006 20:15

At the recent meeting about Republicans in Dublin, these people made no attempt to raise their profile by turninh up. Also Interesting is the fact that SF have not refered to them as dissidents. Is this because they are still onboard or because SF don't rate them?
One way or another, they are doomed unless they become open and transparent. As a neutral outsider, I believe they are an SF front because who else would launch a new group and then proceed to hide from fair questions.

by jack white Thu Jun 15, 2006 22:18

"This eirighi initiative should be welcomed ,but only if the people involved are prepared to make a political reckoning and account to the broader republican movement of why they felt it neccessary to leave PSF."

Yeah you're right, they should draw up and sign a statement outlining exactly why their past political positions were completely wrong and why they now believe in everything that you do. Then they should do the stations of the cross. Then they should whip themselves. then they should whip themselves some more.

jaysus I'm not even a Republican but I find the reaction of people on this thread to be really bizarre.

by hexagon Fri Jun 16, 2006 02:58

This is obviously one of those cunning plan type double or even triple bluffs. The SF leadership have clearly asked some of their most trusted people in Dublin to pretend to leave, and then see who joins them.

Anyone who shows too much interest in this group will be sent to the re-education camps in Monaghan and Dundalk.

by Koba - none Fri Jun 16, 2006 03:32

No strategy. Sour grapes. Bruised egos. No future!

by John O'Neill - ISN (Personal capacity) Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:34

Speaking from personal experience leaving an organisation that you have invested years of your life can be a traumatic experience. Friendships that you have had for years within the organisation suddenly become strained, comradely salutes on the street become cold, distant stares of avoidance. You can be under enormous pressure to "get a hold of yourself" "cop yourself on" and conform to the organisation.You are still, to a certain extent, loyal to the organisation - you have to defend your political decision to have remained within it's ranks for so long.

So maybe, these exSFers, if that is what they are, should be give a little time before they "share" their reasons for departing.

I remember in the 1980's, an entire branch of the WP disassociated because of their intense dislike for the candidate in their area. They renamed themselves WPP - Waterford Peoples Party. When Paddy Gallagher left they rejoined the WP. They never publically attacked the WP when they were outside of it. I only mention this to point out there can be many reasons why members fall out with their organisations.

by Jonah - Sinn Féin (Personal capacity) Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:53

I hadn't planned on posting to this thread again but I think John from ISN makes a good point. When people leave an organisation, in this specific instance some people have devoted their entire adult lives to, it can be an unpleasant experience even when the parting is a friendly one, albeit tinged with regret. I was speaking to a comrade from another political party some time ago who had left the party she was a member of and spoke of the inertia of being in the party while wanting to leave because she didn't believe in it anymore, but not wanting to leave the friendships and personal ties she had built up over almost two decades.

I'd also like to correct:
"From what I have heard ,at least one PSFcumman has already voted to disband in the event of such a coalition and others are expected to follow suit."

It's simply not true. There are a lot of people opposed to the notion of going into coalition with Fianna Fáil within Sinn Féin, I'm one of the more vehement about it as it happens, and this is simply not the case.

by tom eile Fri Jun 16, 2006 16:01

Jack White
No I’m not suggesting anything like hair shirts and whips , Jack - let’s save that sort of behaviour for the bedroom. As individuals I think the eirigi crowd are mostly ex ogra types reaching their thirties ,and concerned about their party’s right wing orientation .It’s a good thing they’re getting away from the likes of Adams as far as I’m concerned .But if they are doing it as an organized political group and are looking to get publicity - as they obviously are , surely people have a right to know where they are coming from and what their political perspectives are.
Jonah,
your party is seriously debating the prospect of entering coalition with a party that in the 1940’s brought the British hangman , Albert Pierpoint , over to Ireland to execute IRA men . I have heard from Sinn Fein members that coalition with Fianna Fail will cause a major split in the party , and that at least one cumman has already voted to disaffiliate in such an event. I may not be right about this ,but it’s what I have heard and I sincerely hope that it turns out to be the case. Would you stay in Sinn Fein if it went into coalition?

by Barry - 32csm Fri Jun 16, 2006 17:30

a number of people who sinn fein would regard as their long term core support have left the party recently in various areas . At their recent Francis Hughes commemoration in South Derry the colour party had to be imported from outside the area . Martin McGuinness wasnt exactly flavour of the month with the locals either .

Theyll be increasingly relying on Mary Lou types and impressionable ogras from now on .

by Jonah Fri Jun 16, 2006 17:35

"your party is seriously debating the prospect of entering coalition with a party that in the 1940’s brought the British hangman , Albert Pierpoint , over to Ireland to execute IRA men...."

The Institute of Public Health in Ireland believes that between six, and six and a half, thousand people die every year as a direct result of inequalities in the health system. That if people in working class communities and disadvantaged areas got the same quality medical treatment as the well off, across the whole 32 counties of Ireland, six and a half thousand people's lives would be saved.

Six and a half thousand.

And your argument, your core, basic argument around coalition with Fianna Fáil is that 60 years ago its then party leadership (All dead) brought a hangman (Also now dead) to Ireland to execute a republican. And because of THAT, we shouldn't go into coalition with them.

I don't know where to begin with how pathetic that is.

As for coalition in a wider sense, I do not have a principled objection to coalition and never have. I believe that it is a tactical one. I believe that tactically, for the development of our struggle, the best option is to rule out coalition with Fianna Fáil and attempt to build an alliance of progressive, left wing political forces, within and without 'established politics' to push for radical social change. That's why I'm quite excited about the ATGWU conference and that's the position I've held for a very long time.

I note, and will pass on, your best wishes for a major split in Sinn Féin.

by Shell to Sea Anarchist Fri Jun 16, 2006 17:52

Seems like a progressive initiative.
Sinn Fein were becoming less and less radical as the years roll by,its important for all republicans dedicated to their beliefs to stand by them and not betray them in the name of power,jsut as it is with many other left tendancies.
All the best to those involved.

by Prionsios de Rossa (maybe) Fri Jun 16, 2006 21:35

What the Heck!...John O'Neill has left the WP. Nobody told me.
I was thinking of leaving myself.
Don't tell Rabbitte or Gilmore, they'll want to leave as well.
If Garland asks...I've gone for milk.....

by pedro - Individ Fri Jun 16, 2006 21:48

Des
Slave mentality rules

It is truly astonishing. Peter Hain visits this area for a couple of days now and again and makes decisions about what our elected representatives can do and about how we shall be governed. Once he has done this there is no political way we can say No to, or change, what he decrees.

Normally we would expect that we could go to court and raise our objections there if necessary. That is what happens in normal countries.

But the Appeal Court ruling legitimising the British Secretary of State's decision to appoint two Orangemen to the Parades Commmission, but no residents, is indicative of the society we're living in.

This is what the DUP and other unionists are insisting should continue. In other words, they prefer a dictatorial form of government to one in which we will have a say in our own affairs. They have rejected even a form of government in which there would be a way of overturning that which a political secretary decrees when we find it objectionable.

Does anybody really realise to what depths the people of Ireland's northeast have been lowered?

• They are the only people left in all the European community who are governed by decrees which nobody has the political power to challenge.
• They are the only people in the European community whose own solutions to their political problems are outlawed from the negotiating table.

• They are the only people in the European community whose economic, social, political and educational progress is able to be held up by the decisions of a single man or by a single minority party whom he favours.
• They are the only people in the European community governed by the last remnants of European dictatorial government.

If ever we find something in all this for which to be grateful it will be this: that by his actions Hain has revealed once again, stark-nakedly, the true nature of the regime by which Ireland's northeast is governed.

If the Secretary were to appoint a fully Orange panel to the Parades Commission there is nothing decent people could do about it.
The courts are legally powerless in the matter, the Assembly is politically powerless to do anything about it. The universities and the churches and most of the communications media either have no power to question it or if they have any persuasive power, however slight, they have decided not to use it.

The people of Ireland's northeast are in fact a powerless people. And it is the determination of the DUP and other unionists to keep them that way, which makes them the only remaining people in the European community who are willing to be ruled by decree rather than by the free decisions of a free and responsible people. To those who value their dignity this is truly an astonishing choice.

Years ago we used to criticise – some of us were even willing to struggle and pray and work against – people who chose government by decree rather than government by free choice. Now our criticisms have come home to roost, a sizeable section of our people are doing the same themselves, choosing to be ruled by decree rather than to be self-governed by their own free choices. And if it fills us with shame that any of our people, however browbeaten by clerical and other bullies, behave in this craven way, so it should.

Many, many people in our lifetime have struggled against dictatorial rule of that kind. Now we are stuck with it and, in the words of the Bible which ruling Christians ask us to read, “We like sheep have gone astray”.

The late Sean MacBride called it the remnants of the slave mentality in Ireland. It must be something like that.

So let us insist on saying that those who think this way are a minority of a minority and must be discredited through their own foolishness and by decent people's opposition to it.

Send this story to a friend

by realist Sat Jun 17, 2006 02:41

"'Sinn Fein were becoming less and less radical as the years roll by"

What?

Where do you think the Shell to Sea campaign would be without Sinn Féin? Have you noticed the commitment of the party to the issue for the last four or five years? Did you not see the thousands of person hours spent by SF activists all over the country?

And do you think they're doing it for votes? Get real.

by tom eile Sun Jun 18, 2006 15:41

“And your argument, your core, basic argument around coalition with
Fianna Fáil is that 60 years ago its then party leadership (All dead)
brought a hangman (Also now dead) to Ireland to execute a republican.
And because of THAT, we shouldn't go into coalition with them.”

For a lot of other reasons too Jonah . I just thought that a reminder of
the history of the party PSF intends to share government with might stir
some republican sentiments in you . But ,for you to write the way you do about republican martyrs , suggests to me that you are not a republican and never have been one.
There’s a new breed about in Sinn Fein elbowing out whatever republican element is left inside .Barry gave an indication of the situation in South Derry but apparantly Jonah is oblivious to what is taking place in his own party.
In parts of the country there’s been a near total takeover by Fianna Fail types - party chairmen of many years standing getting muscled out by fianna fail blow-ins then hauled over the coals for their “low work -loads.” FF are even shoving their own obstreperous “ left wingwers” into PSF now to have manners put on them ! It's hard to believe I know.
There’s another crowd, typically from the trendy parts of Dublin -people
who have never had any involvement or even sympathy with republicanism -apparachniks looking for cosy sinecures in Dail offices and jobs in the media . For these types republican history and ideals are an embarrassment . They may express a preference at the moment for a left wing rainbow type Dail alliance , but ,knowing that their preferences are really irrelevant , take consolation in finding clever words to justify doing what they are told to do by "the people upstairs."
Éirígí has split from Sinn Fein - an amicable divorce Jonah would have
us believe. So long as the lads confine themselves to handing out copies of the proclamation and dwindle away after a year that is . I think this new group should make clear its reasons for leaving . I also think that honourable republicans still inside PSF should repudiate Jonah’s
slight on the memory of Charlie Kerins and his comrades.

by Jonah Mon Jun 19, 2006 17:39

"But ,for you to write the way you do about republican martyrs , suggests to me that you are not a republican and never have been one."

Writing in what way? Did I abuse the memory of republicans? Their sacrifice? Their politics? No. I merely said that as there are, to me, more important reasons to hate Fianna Fáil than something that was done when no-one in the current Fianna Fáil party was responsible. I can honour and remember Charlie Kerins and Seán MacCaughey and other comrades from the 40s and 50s without blaming the current FF party for it. I hate Dev for what was done to those men, not Bertie or Haughey. I certainly require no lectures on republican history from you, or from anyone else on this site, nor do I find the notion that you are going to judge my republicanism as anything more than childish and pathetic.

As for being oblivious to what's happening in my own party, I don't live in south Derry, I live in Dublin. I also don't take the word of an annonymous Dissident regurgitating pub rumour as gospel on the internet. I've argued with Dissidents who thought they knew what had happened inside a party they're not involved with enough times and in enough cases I was involved in to know that the perception of outsiders of a party they are not members of, and in many cases were never members of, is not to be trusted.

The simple reality is that many Dissidents will believe anything they are told if it reflects their worldview and their opinion of Sinn Féin no matter how outlandish. There are enough things to criticise Sinn Féin about without believeing everything you're told.

by sean Mon Jun 19, 2006 22:11

can someone please clarify who this eirigi character is,or what organisation it is?im just a tad bit confused on one hand people are saying there a split from sf and then some assholes on posting with the name who quite clearly is some mouthpiece of the sf pro team

by Dissenter Tue Jun 20, 2006 04:29

How many of you have taken the 'I'm more Socialist than you' test? And the @I'm more Republican than you' one?

Jaysus, the unfounded bitterness and jealousy coming from some of you people is astounding. I have to ask what you are doing to bring the revolution to fruition? Fair play to eirigi, at least they're getting up off their keyboards and taking some posotive action.

by Barry - 32csm Tue Jun 20, 2006 15:29

No offence to anyone but Ive as much time for the republican wrangles over ideological purity as I have with the trotskyist ones .
I note that Eirigi were present at the recent protest for the repatriation of Aiden Hulme which I commend them for . Its a good attitude and progressive .

by Charlie Kerins Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:15

I would like to know who precisely is involved in this initiative. Has Stewart Reddin left SF?

There was some disquiet some months back over the imposition by the SF Árd Comhairle of a candidate in the forthcoming General Election in Dublin Mid-West (Joanne Spain. Cllr Shane O'Connor was apparently 'prevailed upon' to step aside'). Rumour has it that people resigned in disgust. Are any of these involved in Éirigí??

I am aware that Cllr Daithí Doolin's cumann (Jackie Griffith / Máiréad Farrell) disbanded last year (Doolin is apparently difficult to work for -he now relies on Rathmines SF, who are largely students) Are many of these involved in Éirigí??

Cllr Andrew O'Connell resigned from DCC and Aengus Ó Snodaigh's sister-in-law was co-opted onto the Council. Rumour has it he was removed. Has anyone any information?? Again has anyone left the Dublin SC organisation and is involved in Éirigí as a result??

by Left Republican Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:50

Stewey leaving the Provo movement. Not a chance. Only if they told him. Something very dodgy with all this. I'm not believing a word. I'd have a fiver with Paddy Power that after the next election you will see them rejoining the party because everybody knows that FF won't go into coalition with SF. The way this will play out is that SF will try to make it look as if they spurned FF and Stewey and the boys can come back home but we will all know differently. And I thought the SWP were good at fronts and machiavellian politics. They're only in the hapenny place. Classy website, that cost a bit.

by cropbeye - residents against racism Thu Jun 29, 2006 00:27 cropbeye at yahoo dot com Cork City

It seems strange to me that you seem to think we are all born one thing or another and thus

are stuck in that furrow be they trot shinner concerned citizen whetever! Surely all progressive change

comes with people who can analyse problems ammend their views learn from mistakes have

reasoned discussions with people they sometimes disagree with and adjust their sights at the

important targets. By this I am not talking about the ideological summersaults of the likes of Pat

Rabbitte or glossing over sudden change of policy without due explanation feed back and listening.

However in my now aging 33 years on this planet I'v learnt not to fly off the handle at people because of

their perceived backround political baggage personal history etc. I even have friends within the ranks

of the stickies. Go figure that!

by Dissenter Sun Jul 02, 2006 05:07

Looks like quite a few updates on the website, which I have to say is impressive; plenty of very credible documents there, which if they're what this group holds dear then I'll be certainly supporting them at the very least, and maybe joining them...

www.eirigi.org

by Ted Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:24

Charlie much of what you have posted is correct however Andrew O'Connell was not removed but left of his own decision. His replacement is not just Aonghus's sister in law she is his long time constituency PA and Andrew's logical replacement. I don't know if anyone in SC is involved with Eirigi but if so it is not because of this.

by Charlie Kerins - IRA Chief of Staff Mon Jul 03, 2006 17:26

Why then was it noted in the Irish Times that "other parties claim" he was removed?? Who made these claims? Why? What evidence have they?

Are there many involved in Éirigí from the DMW or DSE areas? (As a results of aforementioned controversy).

Who were the others that allegedly stood for the DMW nomination besides O'Connor (a male and I think two females??)

by outside looking in Mon Jul 03, 2006 23:59

all i'll say is, if more people thought and acted like these people maybe connolly's idea of a republic for the workers would be achieved by now. shinners and 'ra heads banged on about socialism and the like because it made them sound like a revolutionary party, join us - join the revolution they'd cry. sounds great to the young. well, the young are getting older and seeing what a crock it was. when was the last time adams, mcguinness or mary-lulu spoke about, much less put forward a socialist policy? the shinners are the fianna fail of the north, they've literally swallowed the sdlp's electorate whole and we know how socially inclined those people are. keep up the work lads, dont listen to the whingers, they're day is gone. eirigi abu.

by Cain & Able Tue Jul 04, 2006 19:46

No matter how many people come online to pretend that Eirigi are independent of SF, we all know the truth. These individuals have never had an independent thought in their life. Their campaign is a party derived front to identify, attract and maintain activists who wish to remain "outside the leadership fold". Its nothing more than a trendy Ogra for the elderly. After the elections, everybody will be back in the fold.

by Ted Wed Jul 05, 2006 08:48

"Why then was it noted in the Irish Times that "other parties claim" he was removed??"

Maybe other parties did claim he was removed, on the other hand maybe the journalist was shit stirring, either case it isn't true. And no-one has ANY evidence for it.

I don't know how many are in Eirigi from DMW or DSE. I don't think anyone in DSE left because of the cumann being stood down, that happened some time ago and wasn't as controversial as you think.

DMW - there were a few names put forward, one of those who didn't get the nomination is now in Eirigi.

by FTA69 - Sinn Féin Wed Jul 05, 2006 14:53

I think some people are over inflating their own importance by demanding that Éirigí respond to the questions (and attacks) made by certain people on this site. I'm sure they have better things to be doing than surfing indymedia seeking to address immature accusations made by keyboard warriors. Personal attacks on their political credentials are unwarranted, especially since they are coming from people who don't even know the activists involved. I have met most of them during the course of my political activity and I can say for a fact they are hard-working Republican Socialists, the fact they stayed within Sinn Féin until 2006 is irrelevant considering they used that tenure to articulate and campaign for their beliefs within the party structure. Perhaps they just believed that this course of action was now futile and that they would be better served founding a new organisation? If so, that by no means indicates they are any less socialistic.

Their campaign regarding the Proclamation is a fantastic idea, and despite the accusations of some from the Mickey Mouse left, is not a bourgeois issue. The Proclamation is a revolutionary and socialist document in its content and bringing its message to the ordinary people of Ireland is a great idea. Perhaps the likes of Tut Tut are jealous because it seems to have met with much more popularity than the dogmatic, inaccesible bullshit distributed by the likes of the SWP? All in all, if a new Republican Left group is active in furthering our ideals then that is to be commended, the world doesn't revolve around Sinn Féin, and neither does it revolve around Trotskyite politicos content to snipe from the sidelines. Good luck to them.

by Cain & Able Wed Jul 05, 2006 21:07

Why was the DSE cumann disbanded? Was this relared to the murder of young Uzell from Pearse Street?

by Ted Wed Jul 05, 2006 21:24

I'm reasonably certain the cumann was disbanded several months before Joe Rafferty's murder. In any event the two were unrelated, it was purely internal issues.

by Charlie Kerins Fri Jul 07, 2006 16:43

The Jackie Griffith / Máiréad Farrell Cumann was disbanded because nobody could get along with Doolin, not related to the Rafferty case.

I was told many people left SF in DMW and DC, would I be right in presuming they are in Éirigí now?

Nobody has been able to answer this question: has Stewart Reddin left SF? I recognise another figure above, Brian ????

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 17:03

You're not socialists, you're communists.

Property is theft
Intellectuals must be re-educated
Labour is the road to re-educating the bourgeois
Political crime is worse than murder
Use political prisoners as slave labour to provide a great leap forward in the revolutionary productivity
Four legs good, two legs better
Goldstein is the enemy of the people
Beware of thoughtcrime
One party state oligarchy
No mechanism to remove bad government
One, soulless, mechanised, rigid, unchanging, inhuman grey existence

Read some Orwell, then think about your "parties".