McDowell Not Welcome in UCD

by Phuq Hedd Mon Oct 17, 2005 03:32

QUOTE: ".In fact most meds in my class have spent a summer in the third world and the meds have been running the world aid society for a number of years on campus-does this show how cold and callous we are as you said in your post?"

RESPONSE: That's wonderful. I'm sure it'll look great on the CV and establishes your official status as a "carer". Should be worth some decent bucks further down the road. If you find this response to cynical then I'm sorry, but doctors get to be the last people to claim to be saints when they earn so much money. And for every story about a poor abused doctor that you can furnish me with I can show you 50 people in a much worse position.

by v.angry med Mon Oct 17, 2005 01:46

Dont know what you hear about medicine in ucd mate but nobody tries to dehumanise us by showing us a dead body?we have to see the dead bodys in order to understand the anatomy of the body-how can that dehumanise us.In fact most meds in my class have spent a summer in the third world and the meds have been running the world aid society for a number of years on campus-does this show how cold and callous we are as you said in your post?Most people i know who are studying medicine in ucd are studying to make a better future for ireland and the world by helping people in the best possible way not by waving a placard at a little gaa game but to genuinely make a difference.As for saying most of me and my collegues will take drugs and commit suicide i take great offence at your gross generalisation.
All i was saying in my post before you attacked my course is that i do think it is very disrespectful of students to behave like that in front of the president of their college and im sure there is better ways of showing support against racism then a public display like that.

by T. Hobbs Sun Oct 16, 2005 01:05

(you have ignored the fact that language student numbers in the summer have decreased because of racism.)

May I be so bold as to suggest an alternative theory?

Mr. Eddie Hobbs (no relation) made a few programs recently - entitled "rip off Ireland".

In them, he quite clearly indicated that prices had run out of control. An interesting by-product of the Euro, is the ability to gauge this on an intra-European level.

I would politely suggest - to SH, again, that this is the primary reason that numbers of foreign students have declined.

by erasmus Sat Oct 15, 2005 23:54

You are to be congratulated on your prayer room, angry med. Though I doubt your department or aquaintances account for 11% of the UCD student body. in a few years you'll be working with dead bodies. They'll do their best to scare you about it before hand. This is supposed to "dehumanise" you in the face of "awful situations". Then you'll go "intern".
You'll work hours that only the precarious seem to suffer more than 2 years. Many of those you know will commit suicide. Many of those you know will use and abuse a variety of drugs and abuse the management systems of their hospitals. Some will just have gladly dropped out. We expect a lot of our young angry meds. & its good to see you online. & when those days of the future come, we "on the left" will speak your language and cram your wards. We will fight tooth and nail for your beds. Now is the time you decide, online, instead of memorising, are you going to be a private med or a public med? If you are a private med you will never meet us. You still get the dead bodies though.

by Angry med Sat Oct 15, 2005 00:12

Uh it annoys me so much when i see leftys in ucd acting like this.You always seem to just come out when theres a famous politican knocking round ucd so you can get all the attention you crave by waving your placards and jsut embarrasing the rest of the student body.It makes me laugh to see you say the reason you went out protesting in ucd is that 11% of ucd students are non nationals.As a med student id say id know a lot of these non nationals and have tried to help them a lot over the last couple of years.Where where you all 3years ago when we tried to get the union to open a prayer room in the terrace for the muslim students-out at your anti racisms protests being seen.Eventually it was the med students themselves who had to set it up.I think its good that you are sticking up for what you believe in and know that many ucd students have done many admirable things to try and combat racism in this country.But waving placards at a football match with the president of your college in attendance is just plain disrespectful and juvenile.

by SH Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:37

What point are you trying to make now? I was talking about students who come to Ireland during the summer to learn english and you have introduced something completely different. Either stick to the point or don't contribute anymore. The numbers of foreign students studying in third level education has increased because the government has failed to adequately fund the area. The third level college's realise that foreign students can provide a large portion of finance and are increasing their numbers.
Foreign students study in Ireland as an Irish qualification is better for employers. However that fails to prove your point and you have ignored the fact that language student numbers in the summer have decreased because of racism.

by John Wed Oct 12, 2005 20:13

From the Union of Students in Ireland website: " The Union of Students in Ireland (USI) has revealed that foreign students will contribute over €242m to the Irish economy in the coming year (2003/2004). The figure for the following year (2004/2005) is expected to rise to €341m, such is the huge interest in studying in Ireland among foreign students."

by Mark C - Teacher Wed Oct 12, 2005 16:10

Neo-Liberalism has created many fine jobs for many fine people in the mainly fine island, no problems there. The problem comes when you look at the expenses account of the people who get screwed over by the west in the creation and promotion of these jobs. If five people had not spent 94 days in prison recently there would have been some job creation in Mayo. It is not so much what is built, but what is destroyed in the first place.

I think the phrase in economic terms is "Externalisation". Have a read of Joel Bakan's not very enjoyable book The Corporation.

by SH Wed Oct 12, 2005 15:46

My figures gave a much more detailed break down. They showed where people came from. The common perception out there is that most immigrants come from Africa when that is clearly not the case. Thats why I put them up. Immigrants come here to get better jobs. Irish emigrants abroad suffered deplorable racism, it did not stop more emigrating as there was a neccessity to do so to earn more income. That is why more immigrants are coming here because they can potentially earn more money.

Also you should note that the numbers of students from Italy and Spain who come here during the summer to learn english have steadily declined due to racist attacks on students. Hardly the result of a "friendly" country.

If you had read the press release thoroughly you would have seen that the increase in 2002 was due to the Nice treaty and the anti immigrant stance taken by some of the campaigners during that referendum. The NCCRI relys on people reporting the incidents. Most don't as they believe it will negatively impact on their asylum application or their work permit. Whether this is true or not that is their perception. Many NGO's and people who work in the area know that this figure is a complete underestimation of attacks. Many complaints that have been made to the guards are not reported as racist incidents. However this situation MIGHT change as a result if the force do become a multi ethnic force.

by John Wed Oct 12, 2005 15:28

Your immigration figures are identical to mine. I simply totalled up the non-Irish, non-UK, non-USA figures. I'm sure you're quite intelligent enough to do the same. Do you disagree with my totals? If so, specify. The immigration totals confirm what I said: namely, that there was a huge upsurge in immigration into Ireland in the year to April 2005. Hardly consistent with your view that life in Ireland is hell for immigrants. If they're so shocked by conditions in Ireland, why do the numbers arriving keep increasing? Why don't they pass word back to their relatives and compatriots in the countries from which they came, so that they too won't make the mistake of coming to a 'racist' country? The NCCRI report lists 70 'incidents' for May-October 2004, mostly verbal abuse. In the corresponding period of 2002 it was 67. Hardly a dramatic increase and much less than the increase in the number of immigrants in Ireland over the same period. There are now a few hundred thousand immigrants in Ireland. So, this amounts to one in every three or four thousand being on the receiving end of verbal abuse in a six-month period and maybe one in every ten thousand being assaulted in that time. All very deplorable, but hardly very widespread.

by SH Wed Oct 12, 2005 13:05

Once more you continue to bury your head up McDowells ass. The NCCRI press release Interim figures reveals upward rise in racist incidents May-August 2004

"The National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism (NCCRI) reports that there has been an upward trend in the number of racist incidents reported to their office over the past four months (May-end of August 2004)1

More incidents have been reported to the NCCRI over the past four months than normally occur in a six-month period.

The NCCRI is also concerned about an apparent increase in the seriousness of incidents that occurred during this period. These incidents (some of which are summarised below) include assaults/ attempted assaults; harassment (including harassment involving women and children) and offensive verbal abuse/gestures in public places.

The NCCRI cautions against simplistic explanations and direct causal factors being attributed to the apparent increase in the number and seriousness of incidents over the past four months. Nevertheless it is apparent, as the NCCRI has noted in the past, that the number of racist incidents appears to increase at times of heightened public discourse in relation to issues such as immigration, citizenship and asylum policy.

The last time there was a temporary surge in the number of racist incidents reported to the NCCRI was in the period that coincided with the last general election in May 2002 and the run up to the second Nice Referendum in October 20022

Public discourse in recent months has focussed on the impact of the expansion of the European Union and fears about an influx of migrant workers, the Referendum on Citizenship and issues generated during the general and local elections.

The NCCRI welcomes the forthcoming Government National Action Plan Against Racism as an important opportunity through which to consider how to increase protection against all forms of racism in Ireland including discrimination and incidents covered by the criminal law.

For more information contact Philip Watt, Director of the NCCRI 01 8588000 / 087 6370557" discusses the increase in racist attacks during the referendum. As for your immigration figures:

In the twelve months form April 2004 to April 2005 according to the Central Statistics office there was a total immigration flow of 70,000. The estimated number of emigrants was 16,600, leaving us with a net migration figure of 53,400. If we examine who immigrated to Ireland the figures are as such:19,000 were returning Irish emigrants, 6,900 were from the UK, 7,100 were from the EU 15, 26,400 were from the new EU accession states, 1,600 were from the US, 9,00 were from the rest of the world.

Many immigrants on arriving are shocked at how wrong their perception was of Ireland. It is of course amazing how you have a completely different interpretation than they do. But of course you know better than the immigrants themselves dont you? Poland hasn't been a dictatorship for a very long time. It is now a capitalist country screwed up by that system. Any more crap John?

by John Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:40

According to the CSO the number of immigrants who were non-Irish and not from the UK or USA, i.e. genuinely ethnically different from the Irish, was as follows in the past 5 years: year to April 2000: 16,900 - year to April 2001: 20,000 - year to April 2002: 29,800 - year to April 2003: 24,500 - year to April 2004: 25,500 - year to April 2005: 42,500. Before you make accusations, let me say I welcome this, the more the better. So does Michael McDowell. The upsurge in the year to April 2005 hardly supports your claims that the June 2004 referendum unleashed a flood of racist attacks. If the Poles are finding it hell here, why is the number of Polish immigrants soaring? Answer: the vast majority of them love it here. Its paradise compared with the socialist state they grew up in. Naturally, there may well be more racist attacks if there are more immigrants, but only pro rata, if even that.

by observer Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:35

Did the students also object to the fact that members of the most discredited police force in western Europe happened to be there?

I would also imagine that it was probably the fucker's first ever visit to a GAA match!

by nerraw Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:18

Can you believe that McDowell refused to enter in to a debate in the middle of a GAA pitch, well I never.

You got to love the students, get back to work and make better use of the tax we spend on you lot

by SH Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:23

John,

The NCCRI has documented the fact that Ireland has become more racist. Since the announcement of the referendum last year attacks increased showing the influence that our politicians have on racism. The Polish people in their magazine newstalk talked about their nightmare over here.

As for 70,000 immigrants perhaps you should investigate where those numbers came from because once again you prove that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Do you think the 19,000 returning Irish emigrants who make up the biggest percentage of the 70,000 emigrants suffer racism here on their return? Pull your head out of your ass, you know absolutely nothing

by John Wed Oct 12, 2005 08:39

The number of people in employment in Ireland increased by 93,000 in the past year. That's a net increase of 93,000. Its also by far the largest per capita increase in the world. You might not be aware of the creation of these jobs, but non-nationals are. That's why 70,000 have emigrated to Ireland from abroad in the past year. Good luck to them. If they agreed with your view that Ireland is increasingly racist, I doubt if they'd be coming.

by You Brayie Wed Oct 12, 2005 00:57

And Hugh Brady, the neo liberal priviatser, is Killian Forde of Sinn Fein uncle, he is a friend of Mc Dowell....mmmm - a fact that Forde has been very quiet about.

by Chris Bond - UCD anti racism (pers cap) Tue Oct 11, 2005 23:16

Could you please give evidence that the Neo Liberal agenda created jobs, at the moment companies are laying off workers to cut their costs and are taking advantage of migrant labour . Example Irish ferries.

We have 120,000 children living in consistent poverty and hundreds of people on the streets of dublin with no shelter to go to, Not to mention the crisis in our health service and the tens of thousands of people who struggle to pay for medicine because their medical cards have been withdrawn.Claims that ireland needs the neo liberal model are part of the IBEC/PD/FF agenda to maintain the benefits of the celtic tiger for the few.

by chief Tue Oct 11, 2005 23:07

its always a pleasure to log into indymedia and see McDowell is still given a loud and torrid reception by comrades in UCD!! fair fucks, keep it up. good luck with the campaign and keep us posted!!

by KBOT (Kilkenny boys on tour) Tue Oct 11, 2005 21:23

Just because 80 per cent voted for it does not make it not racist look a hitlers electoral successes. Does that make it not racist too

by seedot Tue Oct 11, 2005 21:07

1-16 to 1-12

Since I was nice John and answered your Q maybe you could explain the purpose of your posts on this website?

Opposing the politics of those who post here is one thing - but surely the constant abuse and resort to insult will only a)lower peoples opinion of your argument and b) waste the time of editors deleting your posts - which is much less effort than you have taken to type them?

Or is there something I'm missing?

by John Tue Oct 11, 2005 20:50

Since 80 per cent of the electorate voted in favour of the referendum you call 'racist', perhaps you'd like them banned from UCD too. Maybe even haul all UCD students in for interrogation and expel those who voted 'yes' in that referendum. As for the neo-liberal agenda, its that agenda which has resulted in so many jobs being created in Ireland that even layabouts like you will have no trouble finding one when you grow up. By the way, who won the match? I'm dying to know.

by Geoff Tue Oct 11, 2005 20:03

He comes across as unthinking and insensitive with regard to deportation cases. He deports people. it seems, at a whim. Proof possibly that he believes in keeping immigration numbers down, and that he probably has a thing about numbers and order. It does not mean he is racist, though.

Protesting his policies is fine, but to slur someone with a serious allegation as racism does little to bring respect to your cause. You have no actual, definitive, documentary proof that The Rottweiler is a racist, no quotes from himself, nothing. Throwing allegations like this about will make you guys look like weirdoes and bring your otherwise noble cause into disrepute...

by Alan - SWP Tue Oct 11, 2005 19:18

McDowells wife works in UCD and is a good friend of hugh brady.
The plot thickens

by Starstruck - UCD Graduate Tue Oct 11, 2005 19:01

Good to see that McDowell and his ilk are still being made unwekcome in UCD,a place increasingly bearing the hallmarks of their political decisions and ideologies.
McDowell today defended his decision to build a super-prison in Dublin saying that the purchase of the land needed for (30 million euro of taxpayers money) was "money well spent".
Meanwhile,citizens are dying on the streets of the capital,and yet teh Minister deems it better to spend such a huge amount of money on another unnecessary penitentiary than solve these people's plights for a fraction of the cost with an overwhelmlingly greater social gain.
A disgraceful example of the unaccountable political hierarchy we see in Ireland and the"developed" world today.
Well done ARC.