"anyone who gets an interview with Osama is bit dodgey"

by expert comment Mon Sep 26, 2005 19:01

Only one Spanish citizen died in the Terrorists events of September 11th 2001. Her father ose Luis San Pio speaking of his feelings of the death of his daughter Silvia 4 years on had this to say :-

"I have forgiven them"
followed by:-
"I know it is very difficult and it is almost like a miracle that I can see it that way, but I will recommend to those who have suffered a similar loss that they do their best to forgive those who caused that pain"

Silvia was on the 92nd storey of the North Tower when the attack struck she was seven months pregnant.
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The maximum sentance by precendent for terrorist crimes (including murder) in Spain is 40 years. Spain abolished the death sentance on its transition to democracy, the law being signed by the first royal decree shortly after the death of Franco as part of a amnesty for all political prisoners.

Each murder thus is estimated by prosecutors as 25 years with/without remission.

No state of the European Union has the death penalty.

To date these men are the only in European prisons for the attacks.
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There is only one US prisoner related to 911

Zacarias Moussaoui pleaded guilty in a US court on April 22, 2005 to all charges against him but denied he was involved in a "911 massacre plot".
He is yet to be sentanced. Both France and Germany are upholding international human rights law, and EU law and challenging the federal prosecution of the USA and will withdraw their evidence making any convicion unsafe if the death penalty is passed.

On April 27, 2005, French Justice Minister Dominique Perben reminded of the engagement taken by the United States of America not to require the death penalty against Moussaoui-

"When France gave elements of informations about Mister Moussaoui to the American justice, I obtained a written engagement of the United States not to use these elements to require or execute the death penalty".

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Germany acquitted Moroccan born Mounir el Motassadeq of charges relating to 911in a retrial last month, he is serving a 9 year sentance for "membership in a terrorist organization" since 19/8/05 after the USA refused to co-operate his earlier sentance of 15 years for 3000 counts of murder passed in Germany in February 2003 was overturned.

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Usāmah bin Muhammad bin `Awad bin Lādin
a.k.a. the Emir, the Sheikh, Osama, Yussef, the Prince has been missing since 2001, his battle of trafalgar anniversary interview [21/10/01] with Tayseer Alouni (sentanced today in Madrid) being the last accepted and verified contact with a recognised news organisation.

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Those who have been most cruelly punished for the 911 terrorist event are the children and innocents of Iraq, Afghanistan and obese people who don't get low fat pop corn at the Michael Moore re-runs.

the punishment never fits the crime. The castigated are often not even culpable.

by propagandist Tue Sep 27, 2005 01:38

In 4 years, the war on terror has only been able to safely convict people for being members of organisations. All other suspects have either been held illegaly as "enemy combatants" or have proved their guilt by dying in suicide attempts, in which case they are not legally suspects. Over 80% of cases succesfully brought against the perceived structure of Al Qaeda were lead by Spanish judge/prosecutor Balthazar Garzón (presently on sabbitical) under operation dactil [2001-2003].

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on the other side of organisation structures -

Today Private Lyndie England was found guilty (in a retrial after a judge rejected her previous plea) of four counts of maltreatment of detainees, and on one count of conspiring with other soldiers to maltreat prisoners and on of committing an indecent act while posing for a photograph with a group of detainees. In may of 2005 she attempted to plea bargain and reduce a sentance of 11 years to 3 and succeeded for a while. She has become the woman of a certain appearance with the the unusual "ally" name who neatly fallguys for Rumsfeld who said of her case "you can't expect me to be responsible for what people do on the nightshift on the other side of the planet".
The infamous sadist was 3 months pregnant when her court martial began.

she faces now 10 years imprisonment.

Other US torture and abuse cases relating to the war in Iraq, the occupation of Iraq and the coalition of the willing assistance to the Iraqis period to date include :-

Spc Megan Ambuhl: guilty plea - lost rank, "other than honourable" discharge
Spc Armin Cruz: guilty plea - 8 months in jail, bad conduct discharge
Staff Sgt Ivan L Frederick II: guilty plea - 8 years in jail, dishonourable discharge
Spc Charles A Graner Jr: found guilty and given 10 years in jail, dishonourable discharge
Spc Jeremy Sivits: guilty plea - 1 year in jail, bad conduct discharge
Sgt Javal S Davis: guilty plea - 6 months in jail, bad conduct discharge
Spc Roman Krol: guilty plea - 10 months in jail, bad conduct discharge
Spc Sabrina Harman: found guilty and given six months in jail, bad conduct discharge

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In addition there have been court martials of British soldiers and officers, Danish soldiers, officers and intelligence personel and Italians....
and Bulgarians. Its really been quite horrible.

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Nothing much to be proud of at all.

by Mark C - Teacher Tue Sep 27, 2005 09:37

For an interested account of the Taysir Alluni case see Hugh Miles' book "Al-Jazeera: How Arab TV News Challenged The World". It's a very interesting "history" of the last ten years of the middle east seen through the lens of Al-Jazeera.

Mark Conroy.

by Mark C - Teacher Tue Sep 27, 2005 15:08 mark at markconroy dot net

Aljazeera to appeal Alluni's conviction


Monday 26 September 2005, 16:30 Makka Time, 13:30 GMT

Pan-Arab satellite channel Aljazeera has said it will appeal after a Spanish judge sentenced its correspondent Taysir Alluni to seven years in prison for collaborating with al-Qaida.


"The verdict is very disappointing and we consider it unfair and we will contact immediately the legal defence team to study the possibilities of appealing it," Aljazeera general manager Waddah Khanfar said on Monday.

The channel said it was an unjust sentence and a dangerous and unprecedented action in the history of journalism.

"We still believe that our colleague Taysir is innocent of the charges against him," Khanfar added.

A Spanish court on Monday found Alluni guilty of collaboration with al-Qaida, sentencing the Syrian-born but naturalised Spaniard to seven years in jail.

Follow the link for more...

Mark Conroy.

by Mark C - Teacher Tue Sep 27, 2005 16:37 mark at markconroy dot net

Taysir Alluni interviewed Osama Bin Laden He went on a trip with an Al Qaeda operative, I think, and didn't know who exactly he was on the way to interview.

Why would this make him "dodgey"? (which should be spelt dodgy. Didn't Robert Fisk interview him also?

The following articles might help.

http://www.ihrc.org
http://www.taysiralouni.net
http://www.freetayseer.com

Mark Conroy.

by jotter not spellcheck Wed Sep 28, 2005 02:45

has got 3 years for her offences.

by asexpected Wed Sep 28, 2005 13:27

Due to time already spent "in custody", and for "good behaviour", she will probably be out in a few months. That is not justice.

by Noel Wed Sep 28, 2005 14:14

If it's not justice - what should the tariff be?
I suspect 3 years for pointing provocatively and forcing naked men to wear knickers on their heads seems about right.

Or should the sentence be more like in Saddam's good ol' days - in the mincer feet first?

by rob Wed Sep 28, 2005 14:19

Are you saying Fisk isnt dodgy?

by Noel Wed Sep 28, 2005 14:23

Jenin massacre according to Fisk : the bodies were piled high, hundreds of them, and dumped in unmarked mass graves.

Does anybody trust this clowns integrity anymore?

by iosaf Wed Sep 28, 2005 15:07

Our occidental symbol of justice as a blindfolded woman holding sword and scales stretches back to far antiquity. The Egyptian goddess of judgement Ma'at knellt in the halls of justice where she weighed the hearts of the recently dead for "the truth of their lives and actions". The symbol was carried through history but Ma'at was changed to a standing goddess and given a sword: it is still pretty much the same as the 11th card of the Tarot (major arcana).

In the last week you've read about 2 sets of trials.
1 on the events of 911 and how the spanish justice system tried them. mark has left you a link to Al Jazeera and I left youa link to reporters without borders on some challenges in public opinion to one of those cases.

We have also seen Lyndsie England sentanced anda t the same time the US respond to a request by the iraqi interim government for "clemency" on many hundreds of prisoners at Abu Ghraib where Lyndise worked. The US Released them in what seems an almost desperate attempt to curry "public favour" in iraq, the same week that the UK confirmed that it will not honour 2 warrents of arraingment or arrest on its sodliers relating to a murder case in Basra. the British say that the interim government holds no jurisdiction over its troops. Iraqi justice has not yet been blindfolded.

Meanwhile, & I want you to "dot the dots" now rather than wait for a historian to do so, the family of de Menenez have arrived in London looking for their own justice.

I sometimes think Ma'at is not blind, but would rather not look people in the eye.

by Mark C - Teacher Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:58 mark at markconroy dot net

I don't think I mentioned anything to say if I believe that Fisk is credible or not. I simply made the point that, like Taysir Alluni, Robert Fisk has interviewed Osama bin Laden and asked the question should this condemn him to seven years in prison. This was, after all, the evidence that was used to find Alluni guilty. The prosecuter said that he spoke to Bin Laden as if Bin Laden was his boss (but incidentally would not allow the interview to be played at Alluni's trial). I've since read the full transcript of the interview and I believe that Taysir Alluni was very professional and quite critical of Bin Laden in it.

Here is the interview (as transcribed by CNN.com, but you might also find it at islamicawakening.com or religioscope.org:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/

If you'd like to challenge Robert Fisk try attending this lecture in Galway:

http://www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/4539

For a good background to the trial try Hugh Miles "Al-Jazeera: How Arab TV News Challenged the World"

Good Day to All,
Mark Conroy.

by Mark C - Teacher Tue Oct 25, 2005 16:35

Recently I had the pleasure of asking Robert Fisk (at that lecture in Galway) if he had any thoughts on Taysir Alluni's incarceration. He has heard that the reasons for Alluni's transfer of money to Al Qaeda do not seem to be the most convincing but that he [Robert Fisk] is going to Qatar in November to meet the head of Al Jazeera and will try to find out more about the case. He also mentioned that he does not feel that Al Jazeera was/is critical enough of Al Qaeda. I'm not sure that Fisk took on board my comment, which was drowned out by him beginning his answer, that Alluni seemed to have only been doing the same job that Fisk does, i.e. reporting to the world and interviewing Bin Laden if the opportunity arises.