The SWP - From a fraternal parting to a final parting.

by iosaf mac d. Mon Jun 20, 2005 16:24 bcn

I've always welcomed your clear contributions and genuine activism at the most important level "grass-roots". We are still awaiting The "final closing statement" of the first Mediterranean Social Forum which shall be cobbled together and published with a "co-ordinating official label" sometime soon. Yet over 5000 delegates have gone home, and as well know in the spirit of Porte Allegre, all propositions of the contributing groups, and delegates are to form part of the closing statement. The general assembly of social movements therefore saw the most inane and narrow bickering on the final presentation of what is the basis for "fraternal" co-operation. And behind that process are the same minds working in the same ways, as I suspect are "against you". Because I am not a "4th international socialist", I for the most part ignore these petty divisions. & for that reason I have been very tart and short in my coverage of the debates and seminars at that conference, though I know many of the readers (especially at your end of the spectrum) might be curious about what was said, agreed, disagreed.
The final argument always seems to be between those who favour old style strong party organisations with singular lines and centralised command structures where one language/dogma/leadership/philosophy/book might fit the social, political, cultural & rights problems of all workers/ campesinos/ nations/cities/ethnic groups, and
those (at my end of the spectrum) who believe that grass root action, focussed on the needs and aspirations of local communities with trans-national wide band solidarity and active cybernetic support is the way to create an "effective movement" agreeing on what is common and useful to the communality of extending justice, liberty and equality...
You are welcome @ my end of the spectrum Davy, maybe its where you always belonged ,-)
Get that job, (are you precarious now?) keep writing & as they used to say in Ireland "f*!k the begrudgers!"

by Typical Mon Jun 20, 2005 16:34 Dublin

How did the SWP mafia manage to get you to lose your job? This just really shows how low they willing to sink

by Curious Mon Jun 20, 2005 17:55

Davy's article is actually quite low on specifics. Instead there are general accusations with nobody named.

How are we in the movement meant to challange the people responsible if we do not know who they are. How for example did you lose your job?

Are we to assume that the people responsible are Bryce, Buckley, McKinney and Muldoon or does the root lie in Dublin with Boyd Barrett and Allen?

by Con Carroll Mon Jun 20, 2005 18:04

Davy, can we understand one thing for once anyone who is a sincere political activist is a threat to the poverty pimps and parasites of the swp and w.sm socialist party, and others they cannot bare to look at us.
afer all they come from middle class backround who wouldn't last a day in most working class estates.
any campaign they have been involved with the left if theyn didn't get their way they wrecked it
Richard Boyd Barrett or others of make pverty history have no identification of what it is like to experience poverty. they will use us for their agenda my way of handling them is to tell them to fuck off and go back to Dublin 4.
What reality does Eammon Mc Cann have to people on the ground in working class flats complexes and housing estates
Davy good advice dont give them your piece of mind you have enough intelligence
they once accused a member of rsidents against racism of been a cop informer

by Davy Carlin Mon Jun 20, 2005 18:04

To those that have e-mailed and phoned me in support. Many thanks - Davy C, signing off

by Flabbergasted Mon Jun 20, 2005 18:22

"Davy, can we understand one thing for once anyone who is a sincere political activist is a threat to the poverty pimps and parasites of the swp and w.sm socialist party, and others they cannot bare to look at us."

That's a bit rich considering the company you keep with them SIPTU bureaucrat lovers in that Temple Bar bookshop.

by John Kelly - none Mon Jun 20, 2005 18:37

Davy should really give a detailed account of the attacks on his character and the way in which the SWP have tried to con IPSC activists if we are going to have a meaningful discussion and learn the lessons of this dispute.

Davy should also ask himself if he was ever guilty of acting in the same manner in relation to other activists when he was an SWP member in happier times.

It would also be interesting to hear why the SWP are only attacking Davy now, when Davy has not fundamentally changed his ideas or his way of working since he left the SWP.

by red ant - several Mon Jun 20, 2005 19:56

>
> "The last meeting of the MPH committee before the Rally took place today.
> Again as sitting on previous committees the banter was good. Such is the
> detail of the Rally many had said 'whose fault is it we had a Rally' it's
> that Davy Carlin's fault, Yes' 'Its that Davy Carlin's fault', to the
sounds
> of laughter, finger pointing and banter.
>
> Friends Street Seen has again amassed much and overwhelming support and
> respect from yet more involved within the Movement, who we are in close
> contact with - re Street Seen also. And let me tell you that there are a
few
> Socialists and Christian Socialists representing various organisations on
> that Commitee who have good heads. Of course we have discussed the issue
of
> Derry and all those associated matters and all are clear and in agreement
> who exactly is to fault and on what our position is, and I believe will
have
> little time for working with such individual mindsets in the future.
> Especially as stated for those toe in toe out organisers.
>
> The issue of the Rally and all that has happened to bring this about will
be
> detailed as was last year the Anti Racism Movement Rallies, the year Prior
> of the Anti War Rallies and now its continuance this year with the Anti
> Poverty Rallies. More especially as we are part of something that will
> probably see the largest demonstration in the history of Scotland and
indeed
> the largest such ever rally in the North {Pre G8} with the largest
> mobilisation from the North going to the G8. So it is a vitally important
> initiative whom some will have found, due to their words and actions,
while
> politeness forthcoming - they will not be worked with in future by many.
>
> The Committee at the end gave thanks for Jon {Street Seen} and Lawrence's
> {Trócaire's } excellent work on the Press - indeed others on the press
group
> held them out for special praise for their work and again are held in
> respect by the group due to that selfless work which continues. We
finished
> of again with more banter of how James Connolly would have dealt with
> various situations and again the Chair asking 'who are the radicals'
amongst
> us' -Calling for a Rally' etc etc - with all fingers, banter pointing
> towards me, and slaps on the back to the calls ofs 'well we did it' this
> against everything that was argued and put into our path - again to calls
> in unison of it was - 'Davy Carlin's fault'.
>
> Its wee things like that brought a brief smile to ones face at the time -
> and more importantly a realisation that one has secured again well rooted
> support and solidarity on and within another Network.
>
> There where a few final changes to the formatof the Rally - a bit of music
> at the start and end with various spechess and actions etc - but as stated
> will do a comprehensive piece of this. This as part of Street Seen part
one
> - which one media outlet recently stated under the headline ;'The
phenomenal
> raise of Street Seen' - as forwared.
>
> Other extensive media, Uni, and TV interviews have now also been requested
> Of street Seen - as had similarly been requested of oneself in relation
to
> a definitive local record of the BAWM and the ARN.. Again I will do this
as
> such needs to be recorded to leran lessons of the past while standing
> against revisionism,
>
>
> The continuance
>
> And so Anti War - Anti Racism - Now Anti Poverty - the mass rallies and
> Movements continue - Belfast the North and Unity will be no different.
>
> We are the Street Seen Movement?
>
> Street Seen editorial Collective will meet shortly - as we are to discuss
> the setting up of another vital Network - and also the paper which we must
> see as a prority - Key activists in Belfast have said that they wish to
work
> on this side of our Network as so the paper gets out regualry, Will be in
> Touch - Davy Carlin

by Davy Carlin Mon Jun 20, 2005 20:38

Jesus I had thought you would never come out. - but the mindset always delivers. I was unsure for quite a while as to where you were {never mind who you were} - even though that name is specific.

- yet -

It was only a matter of time -

you will actually find {RED ANT} that this was 'only' sent to {as where all other such e-mails to specific people - in fact {surprise surprise} 'only' to a certain {very few} leading SWP members - although at times some where left out - and some were added - as I sniffed you out,

You will also know hat I did tend to put a List number at the top as you would be aware - as so you would feel a safeguard - that is, that you felt it was being sent to loads and loads of people - but sadly it was not} - -

- This as I homed in on the final mindsets.




This and your recent inputs mean that I now know exactly who you are {individual} - and indeed am not one bit surprised - as others had already said such to me previous

So even though you are not Bolshie enough to put your name {as I know there is nothing presently stopping you} -

I will nevertheless engage with you {and also let viewers know that I am engaging with a very senior member of the Irish Socialist Workers Party}

It took a while - but you bit - indeed you had to
- {as it is called the mindset}

So let's get down to it the debate - as there is a lot to cover


- Firstly on Unsubstantiated allegations -

Let began with the above - are you stating that my statement is lies - Which Part? And let’s go into the specifics please-

After this I also wish to discuss the various correspondences {which I also sent to you} in relation to my problems with the PC over the years and the {undemocratic decisions I believe where ongoing - as it is all related {I will of course reference to Indy media all relevant correspondence that was had at that time over the years {in relation to local, National, and International - as so - to substantiate all my points.


So let us begin -

I cannot come back tonight but will pencil some time in tomorrow afternoon for this interesting debate - although I will probaly see you in person shortly



AHHHHH {sigh} -

THe irony of it all -


. See you then - Davy Carlin

by Himitsu Mon Jun 20, 2005 21:47

A public parting of ways...
When half the IAWM steering committee walked out in disgust of SWP gerrymandering and dishonesty, the arguments were mostly kept internal, to avoid giving the media circus ammo to throw at the Irish peace movement.

But of course, the SWP hasn't managed to monopolise every movement, or at least the publicity side of it. (they face rather stiff competition from Bob Geldof and Bono) and the Make Poverty History campaign would not be worse off without the head honchos of the party, whatever about some of the members who toil away on campaigns unaware of the machiavellian antics of the leadership.

I wonder what SWP tactics are for a public spat?
Obviously if it just stays on indymedia, they'll ignore it or post a few anonymous attacks. If it hits the mainstream media however, then it would be a different story, after all, these are people who aspire to being TDs, and councillors...

by w - dissent (personal capacity) Tue Jun 21, 2005 00:02 0877412431

Just in relation to people being tricked onto swp buses in the original article and having to go to "g8 alternatives" events instead of their own choice, please feel free to contactc Dissent Ireland to meet us over there, we have close to 200 heads going over and a lot of us had great training this weekend in padding, first aid, clowning and so on. We're also building a huge irish neighbourhood over there which you're more than welcome to join.

Solidarity!

(SWP, up against the wall motherfuckers!)

by Jon Glackin Tue Jun 21, 2005 01:17

There are a number of important issues I believe that Davy’s piece raises:

Firstly it takes a brave person to raise their concerns publicly regarding an organisation that for so long they have been so identified. For that he is to be congratulated not pilloried. I suppose a public discussion as to the underhand tactics employed by certain leading members of this party is something that they wish wasn’t brought to light. But that’s politics for you. If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

His statement, I believe, has implications for the wider movement and as such it is important that we as individuals, aligned individuals, party bots or those with a passing interest in revolutionary debate explore.

Personally I am un-aligned to any particular political organisation though have worked with the broad spectrum that would constitute the Irish ‘left’ in various campaigns and I aim to continue to do so.

I’ve actually been dismayed over the years to see the lack of esteem that the SWP is held, by various key campaigners that I have the utmost respect for. I suppose their track record is hardly examply, the collapse of GR which once had a real opportunity to develop into a large grassroots movement, the shenanigans with the Irish Anti-War Movement, even to the infantile sloganeering at various marches of the rrrrevolutionary brigade of red branded flag bearers right through to recent attempts to hijack the MakePovertyHistory Campaign. Is it any wonder MPH discourages political groupings joining whatever their political hue. If the G8 protests meant so much to them one would have thought they would defer their Marxism event by a few days to so as to maximise pressure at Gleneagles!

. A case of point at the moment is the ‘London dictates’/Party Notes thread started by Masters Voice, who I suspect is another disillusioned ex member or soon to be ex member. I’ve enjoyed reading the Party notes and the control that seems to emanate from London…’Dictatorship of the Proletariat, more like Dictatorship of the CC!!!
Unfortunately there seems to be a growing ‘your either are with us or against us culture’ growing in certain sections of the leadership of the SWP. This strikes me as most strange at a time when they seem to be hiding in a Political closet, where leading SWP members sooner identify themselves as spokesperson for Bin Tax, Anti-War or whatever flavour of the month campaign, rather than as members of their own Party. What kind of signal does that send out? When did you last see a SWP member in the media identify themselves as a SWP member?

Thankfully nowadays such whispering campaigns orchestrated by SWP members usually falls on barren ground where experienced activists are concerned. Though there is always a whole new layer of people not aware of the divisive tactics that the organisation employs and as such I hope that this discussion here can continue in a manner befitting people who really want answers and debate.

I used to always be confused about the old joke, as to who was the biggest party on the left? (Ans) The ex-SWP, it was funny once now it’s beginning to get serious!

by B McGrady Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:33

how can the SWP, use the 'make poverty history' slogan on thier weekend stall in belfast city centre.

i thought MPH was for NGO's and such. surely the ever infiltrating SWP should not be using it.

I too have see how the swp works in belfast, and all they seem to be interested in, is selling that god dam paper and starting tens of campaigns that go no where. every leading member of belfast swp is involved in god knows how many campaigns, all doing 50 things at once. and forgetting the grassroots activists that need help and support to build up a movement that really can go somewhere.

its about time that real activist realise that being apart of the swp will get you fustrated and attacked when you leave just as Davy. mind you some of it could have been deserving, but to lose your job like davy has done is totally unjustifable and sucks, just like the swp.

Good luck davy, hope you find something suitable, and look forward to reading some more of you articles.

by Davy Carlin Tue Jun 21, 2005 13:05

Thank you for the still continuous support via e- mail, phone and indeed here from across the Movements.

Indeed with many detailing similar experinces. Again I will reference other's such experinces also if a debate happens - as well as others as we have already seen detailing more similar experiences

I only have until 3pm this afternoon for this debate - as after that I am up to my eyes for the next few weeks looking work etc - so will not be able to come back after that.

by What is to be Done? Tue Jun 21, 2005 14:25

"they were on the wrong bus - as they had believed that they were going to the blockades and the other main events - they were not informed they would have to pay in to G8 Alternatives events"

1) This is potentially Consumer Fraud - look up Law regarding false advertising

2) When the SWP uses the 'Make Poverty History' phrase this also may contradict trademark law.

Read:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/footpages/termsandconditions.shtml

I'm not a lawyer, but seems obvious that one can go after these people and stop them.

by B McGrady Tue Jun 21, 2005 15:20

looks like the SWP do not want to get into the debate with Davy, even if they want to say they are innocent of the points made by Davy.

At last Davy has seen the light, and has put the SWP in his past where they belong. the ideals of SWP are great however they are way off track, so much so, that they will never been seen as party for the working classes.

Davy when are you setting up your own alternitave to the SWP. maybe RSP = real socialist party. i'll join up.

as ever best of luck finding a job,

by Davy Carlin - Street Seen Tue Jun 21, 2005 16:12 carlindavid at hotmail dot com 0777 405 3223

Friends –

I have given the SWP leadership amble time to come back - and they have not. As stated I must sign of now, as I have a job looking for a job over the next few weeks before the G8.

I would like to though that over the last 24 hours or so I have seen real Solidarity in practice - to an extent I had not personally ever witnessed before.

From virtually every part of the Movements in Ireland to others spanning from Asia to America from Australia to other parts of Europe - all giving me support and solidarity. Indeed there where those that I had thought would not have lent such support but took time out to send such.

And also thank you to those SWP members - who have also sent support. I do not think though that you can effect change - but you will learn that lesson in time.

Again thank you. And also to those who are going on the look out for a job for me!


Friends my points have been made and I hope the SWP draw back from this. Although given ones experience of them, they probably will do such again in the months ahead on others.


Finally I want to say that it is not the SWP activists as there are some genuine activists within the SWP - but the leadership and that mindset that seek to attack and misuse genuine activists wherein my stand lays.

And on that note to the more 'muscular’ support advocated -the pen is mightier than the sword and the issue has been dealt with, and closure for me on this issue has been brought.

I am signing of now and, as stated, and cannot come back as have to job hunt – All the best - and such Solidarity will not be forgotten. Davy Carlin Signing of

by Seán Mitchell - swp(personal capacity) Tue Jun 21, 2005 17:17 seanmitchell at beer dot com W Belfast

Ive been a member of the SWP for a few months. I decided to join on the basis that the SWPs politics most closely associated with my own. This was not a blind decision and was made after long contemplation and reading(including davys original article on leaving the swp). that article like this one lacks any political arguements but merely ones on a very personal basis. It lacks clarity and specifics on the various issues raised. To make such a serious attack it would seem only common sense to give specifics. My time as a member of the swp has not given me any reason to want to leave. At the same time i will criticise actions if need be. The fact is that nothing here is new. You all hated the swp before and still hate them now. This isnt news, simply recycled opinons. On the point of G8 mobilisation buses, no one is required to go any where, as far as im aware it simply is a mode of transport to get to the G8. As far Students Against Poverty, the swp have never claimed it as their bus, and i have stated to them from the start that it is totally independent, they agreed and have been supportive as has many other activists including davy. SAP is not there to be thrown around as a politcal football by those who it simply dosent concern, only to those who built it.
There are many good things happening on the left. The arn picket last friday for example . Yes the swp was there. I personally spent hours of my own time putting up posters for the picket only to be verbally attcaked by some wanker who thought we had removed her riot folk poster but then realised it was on the other side of the bus stop. But that would not have stoppped me attending the riot folk event. Its not personal relationships which should determine how you act but politics and the will to see change. That is the only mindset that peolpe should have. Declaring with grand applause that you will no longer work with the swp only serves only to hurt and divide the left. There are bigger battles to be won than Constantly attacking one political party. Racism is on the rise for example and it is only the left which is bothering to fight it but not if we are constantly bickering.
I for one look foward to working with you all in MPH etc even if you have now decided not to work with me.
such is life such is the left

Seán

by swp HATER Tue Jun 21, 2005 17:49

well sean, if you read davy's post, he will work with individual members of the swp on various projects but will not support the swp or any new projects they intend to start up. now i can not defend davy as i don't know him or what has been going on, but Davy did as for a debate and would only be on this site until 3 pm today, did you wait until he was off sean.... only you can answer that. maybe you would be better speaking to davy personally to find out all these details you so crave, i could believe all the points that davy brought up. you see, you are a member of the SWP but where putting up ARN posters, next week it will be IAWM posters, the week after will it be Anti poverty network posters, can we see you selling your paper and handing out uncivil servant leaflets at the picket line at BELB offices on thursday, what else to the swp think they control. your cards have been marked and Davy is making a stand. fair play to him. its better to know the truth about the organisation you want to be apart of, before you get too deep.

think again sean about your membership, is this truly a party to be proud of, using slogans on your stalls trying to mislead the public to think you are apart of the MPH movement.

i would love to hear your comments.

by Davy Carlin Tue Jun 21, 2005 18:15

Sean-

what hurts and divides the left are not people raising points that I have done -but the very actions by such parties towards activists as I have outlined

I also offered the SWP the chance to go into the political arguments and the specifics which they chose not do - yet all similar arguments can be found if you trawl through Indymedia or the Blanket under my name {over several years}. Indeed similar points can also be found if you request my correspondences with the PC over the years in relation to such similar concerns.

Indeed everything that I have stated above I can substantiate and prove facts and evidence for, one way or another- as can it all be referenced to similar issues over the years as held within that correspondence. I have stated the facts and gave the SWP the opportunity to deny this - which they did not - as they know I can substantiate all such now - and indeed going back years.

'You all hated the SWP before and still hate them now'

You are completely wrong on that statement - indeed I have been criticised over the years and on this site many many times for singing the praises of the SWP.

Also Sean the very fact that many many activists from across the movements are raising such similar concerns might suggest that they do have a point. Indeed many of these activists have no sectarian reason to state such, and only do such because they have genuine concerns.

As for deciding not to work with you - well I have said many times and again above, that my problem is not with SWP activists like yourself, but with the SWP - and will work with any genuine activist.

I have been branch Secretary, Northern Sec, on the, NC, on the Political Committee, and a delegate to the International Committee over my eight years in the SWP –
-And so it is not to grand applause that I put up this statement but out of pure necessity as the attacks and untruths by the SWP leadership gave me no alternative.

As for constantly attacking one political party - well Sean there would be no need to stand against such if they did not continue the activities against activists as I have outlined above.

Of course Sean as a new member to the SWP you have your own ideas and your recent experiences and I respect your right to them – on the other hand I have my views through experiences and am articulating them here.

That is what it is all about.

People have contacted me for support from across many campaigns and Movements – not because I am paying them to or forcing them to - but simply because they agree with what I am saying – and indeed many citing their own similar experiences.

I wish you well Sean and hope we do work together and would look forward to that.

All the Best –

PS


I absolutely cannot come back to this again - no matter who replies {SWP or not} or what they say.
– I have given the SWP leadership ample time to reply –

And now I have more urgent pressing issues at task - .

Most definitely cannot come back –

See many of you at the G8 – if I get a job!!!

Gone for Good

Fight the Power – From where ever it comes! D

by the oarsman Tue Jun 21, 2005 18:24

"Richard Boyd Barrett or others of make pverty history have no identification of what it is like to experience poverty. they will use us for their agenda my way of handling them is to tell them to fuck off and go back to Dublin 4."

Tell that to the people in Ringsend...

by Sherlock Holmes Wed Jun 22, 2005 13:03

RBB has no profile at all in ringsend. It's laughable that the SWP think he has. SWP have barely no prescence at all in the area apart from paper runs.

by Joe Wed Jun 22, 2005 13:25

I think oarsman was pointing out to Con that Dublin 4 contains significant working class areas - that it is not all Ballsbridge in other words.

by John Thu Jun 23, 2005 00:55

Same story over and over again. The SWP ended up wrecking the IAWM (causing six members of the steering committee including the PRO to resign) and they learned nothing from it. Nothing.

by ............ Thu Jun 23, 2005 09:43

I am not an swp supporter, never was never could be but I think that everyone has a right to be treated in a fair manner.

Davey makes a point that he has lost a job due to the swp. This is a very serious charge. He should either prove it or withdraw it. If he does not do so readers of this sight should note that his views can not be relied on.

by Manic Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:44

I think Davy gave them every opportunity to defend themselves. I do not think he can be much clearer than saying that he can substantiate very thing he said and that the SWP know this. Probably the reason they did not reply back..

'Lets began with the above - are you stating that my statement is lies - Which Part? And let’s go into the specifics please'
'I also offered the SWP the chance to go into the political arguments and the specifics which they chose not do'
'Indeed everything that I have stated above I can substantiate and prove facts and evidence for, one way or another- as can it all be referenced to similar issues over the years as held within that correspondence. I have stated the facts and gave the SWP the opportunity to deny this - which they did not - as they know I can substantiate all such now - and indeed going back years'.
'I have given the SWP leadership ample time to reply'

by Isaac Blank - Not SWP Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:55

It isn't really fair for Davy to be throwing accusations around about the SWP making him lose a job without any information on it whatsoever.
I agree with the other poster, he should substantiate it or drop it.

As for the other points, to be honest the fact that Davy had all these "super-important roles" in the SWP is more of an indication of the weakness of the SWP than the greatness of Davy Carlin. I would say they are now regretting their fast promotion of him!

by SWP watch Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:16

Where are they on this thread. They have not defended themselves because they are indefensible. Davy has challenged them and they have run away because they are guilty.

by Keeping up with the Jones Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:25

There is promotion now in the SWP? What are the criteria I might apply. BTW who promoted Davy to the position in the Anti Racist Movement and MPH are you telling me it was the SWP. Surely the other organisations involved would have had a say in this. I think he was not even in the SWP before his involvement in MPH. Also as far as I am aware Davey was not on any leadership bodies of the SWP for his last several years, hardly promotion.

by Major Woody Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:53

I presume Davys accusation is at least in part based on this indymedia thread
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69990
which was a row about an event in Derry this weekend which makes use of a variation of the Make Poverty History name

On May 31 2005, at 11:47am someone called 'M' posted a comment titled 'Carlins ramble' but he hadn't posted under his own name at that point

At 3:27 someone posting under the name 'Not this time' and who reckoned 'regulars will know who I am' posted a long rambling post in a distinctive style that started with "My Friend - I would not mention names, whoever you think or know people are, as it could get people into serious trouble at work presently."

There are lots of more posts from the same source on the topic itself

On Thursday, Jun 2 2005 at 2:54pm there is a post from 'Goretti Horgan - SEA and SWP' (the 3rd post on the thread from her) which includes
"I find it difficult to respond to ‘not this time’ - I dislike anonymous posters. ... I think that Davy, sorry, ‘not this time‘, is trying to say ... "

At 3.56pm 'Not this time' posts
"PS Gorretti you where expressly asked to not mention names {as regular viewers would know who some people where} as it could get people into serious trouble {as was stated} – yet you when ahead and mentioned a left wing activist's name with possible serious reprecussions
– What more is to be said.
Again, as was said, that also will not be forgotten. as well as documented at a later date."

At 8:07pm 'Goretti' posts including
"4. I never stated, or saw anyone else stating that no names should be mentioned. All the Derry MPH people posting here have used their own names and given email addresses. Anyway, how could naming someone get them in trouble - unless they are doing something dishonest or at least dodgy?? "

On Friday, Jun 3 2005, at 1:54pm 'Not this time' replies
"...That is an absolutely Unbelievable statement from a Socialist – especially from the North - Whether you are a Director or not
Therefore I will put it as simply as I can -
There are the workers and there are the bosses.
The workers work for the bosses.
The bosses want to get as much work of them for as little pay as possible.
So if a worker uses that period not to work for the boss {IE going on Indymedia} and they where named, and this passed on to the boss, then that worker could loss his Job.
{More especially if it is a boss who hates left wingers}
Therefore when it is expressly asked not to put the bosses interest above the workers then most on this site would side with that.
Unfortunately you chose not to.- and as stated, that also will not be forgotten. "

That is the last post on the thread from either of them although some others also make comments on the dispute including what are obviously digs from an anonymous SWPer at Davy for being paranoid.

All in all probably a good example of why you shouldn't out people who use pseudonyms to post. Whether the exchange above had anything to do with Davy being sacked we won't know but he seems to feel it did.

On its own I don't see how it would stand up to an unfair dismissals claim but I guess once the employer is aware of what to look for they can get 'proof' from their own outgoing logs. (Indymedia.ie doesn't as I understand it keep IP logs but unfortunately all the machines between you and the indymedia web server almost certainly do)

by Curious Thu Jun 23, 2005 13:03

Didn't the Newsletter do that before to Newtown Emerson. Some one told them that he was using his PC during work hours. They sacked him.

by Me Thu Jun 23, 2005 13:09

Wasn't it that provie rag the Andytown?

by Correct Thu Jun 23, 2005 13:27

They traced the times and dates back to his computer and so he was sacked. That's what you get for being a radical Prod

by bitterness Thu Jun 23, 2005 14:09

I know for a fact that TD Joe Higgins contributes loads of money to left-wing causes and only lives on the workers' wage. Why are you attacking RBB and Rory Hearne neither are on much money. Rory is USI Deputy President on about E300 a week. RBB is a SWP full-timer and would be lucky to get that amount a week!! Kieran Allen is a skilled person and is entitled to get paid for his skills. Even at that he's not getting as much money as many skilled building workers.

by Davy Carlin Thu Jun 23, 2005 15:12

The SWP and I are to meet {with a mediator} to go through these and other related issues.

- Closure - Signed off - Davy Carlin 23/06/05

by lol Thu Jun 23, 2005 15:17

Could I suggest Con ;-)

by Wavy Davy. Thu Jun 23, 2005 15:52

You'll be back on this thread.
as sure as eggs.

by SWP watcher Thu Jun 23, 2005 16:42

Keep us informed Davy. You know how sneaky they will try to be.

by Con Carroll Fri Jun 24, 2005 13:00

Thank you mediator for your confidence in me.I like straight talking I would love toraise a serious issue regarding a leader of the swp and his activities this is not the space

by xx Fri Jun 24, 2005 13:04

It is not the place for abuse anyway.

by Isaac Blank Sun Jun 26, 2005 00:23

Whatever happenned to a labour movement investigation or something of the like?