Sinn Fein slammed by MEPs over killing

by Mike Thu May 12, 2005 14:39

It is legitimate to demand that a rebel army not ignore wrongdoing by their fighters. But it is not legitimate to imply that they are doing so unless they turn the suspects over to the authorities with which they are at war.

To even make this demand implies a willingness on the part of the state to forgo its usual perogatives and treat the suspects as if they were JUST being tried for the matter at hand > I cannot see any "state" being willing to engage in sucvh an understanding -- doubtful even if it could without prejudice to its claim to sole authoirty.

At least to me it does seem to satisfy the requirements if the IRA court martials its own on this murder charge. Unless the belief is being expressed that they would not provide a fair trial.

by NI voter Thu May 12, 2005 14:40

At least they voted! They will not be representing the people they were elected by in Westminster. The fact is (like it or not) Northern Ireland is in the United Kingdom and there are decisions to be made in Westminster and there is a need to attack the Blair government. Sinn Fein refuse to vote against issues such as tuition fees, low losses in the public sector, the euro (oh yeah, they support that, sorry), the national health service, etc. I don't think the oath is an excuse. Nationalists in the past never had major problems with the oath, there have been many radicals and revolutionaries that took the oath. It means nothing. Get on with your job Sinn Fein!

by reabhloid Thu May 12, 2005 18:22

It's really a shame and a disgrace that a killing wich was result of a bar riot it's been dicussed in the European Parliament. It's really ridicoulous that all this stuff has arrived even to the EP. It's completely crazy and out of any logical. Nothing like this would happen with any other bar riot in Europe. Some people we are really sick with this affair. In the other hand, when is the EP gonna be addressed by victims of State terrorism from Ireland or the Basque Country? They have been always ignored and this makes this Mac Cartney story even more ridicoulous.

Why the pilers didn't care when the killers came to the police station? Why did they release them? Why is all this shit the first news in the BBC prime time news?

by Murder is murder Thu May 12, 2005 19:04

Yeah we should be able to cover up the misdeeds of our members anytime we want to! Who do these Eurocrats think they are, anyway! The bastards!

by NI voter Thu May 12, 2005 19:47

"Reabhloid" makes the point that he's sick of the McCartney murder. Well I'm sure Robert McCartney's family are not happy that they've to spend their time and money on this when they should be getting on with their lives. This was not just a bar room "riot". Members of the IRA killed a man and tried to kill another. Then they went about cleaning up evidence. Sinn Fein and the IRA then went about intimidating witnesses. Sinn Fein do not want to see these IRA members being accountable for their actions.

Sinn Fein believe that the IRA are the legitimate government of Ireland and are unable to committ crimes. The fact is that there is no link whatsoever between the 2nd Dail and the IRA army council. You republicans seem to forget that the 2nd Dail voted for the treaty and anti-treaty republicans particiapted in elections to the 3rd Dail.

The fact is that Sinn Fein are a sectarian party that is determined to bomb their way into a united Ireland with protestents as second class citizens.

I made a point about the oath in Westminster. Will "reabhloid" please tell us why SF wont take their seats and vote against Blair's agenda of tuition fees, water charges, public service job cuts, etc. SF are not abstaining to set up an alternative parliament (which was Griffiths idea!).

by Ali H. Thu May 12, 2005 19:59

Did the IRA plant hundreds of pipe-bombs outside the homes of Protestants over the past few years?

Do the republicans insist in dressing up in silly costumes to intimidate their neighbours by parading up and down through Protestant neighbourhoods like puffed up buffoons guarded by their "bretheren" in PSNI and army uniforms?

As for taking their seats in a British parliment, SF's voters did not vote for them to take those seats.

Nationalists want a power-sharing government in Belfast.

The fact is that the Protestant majority in NI ignores this and still wants to lord it over nationalists. This is obvious in that any excuse will do in denying them and their elected representatives equal participation in government.

So much for Protestants in NI being down-trodden second-class citizens.

by righteous pragmatist Thu May 12, 2005 20:02

Everybody knows that the British Army shot unarmed Derry civilians dead on Bloody Sunday Everybody knows loyalists often shot people dead with British and RUC collusion.
Eveybody knows the SAS shot to kill.
Everybody knows that the Shankill Butchers went out to slash a taig any taig they could find to death after a few pints and a bag of chips.
Eveybody knows the IRA blew up two young English boys Jonathon Ball and Chris Parry in Warrington.
Everybody knows loyalist and IRA death squads shot innocent people tit for tat.
Everybody knows that Sinn Fein and the IRA are the same organisation and everybody knows they murdered McCartney in cold blood.
Thats what's pathetic.
Innocent blood shed for no reason but political and ideological bullshit.
There is never going to be United Ireland while the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote Unionist.
And they are going to continue to vote Unionist while the IRA exists.
And the IRA will always exist as long as Ireland is not united.

by NI voter Thu May 12, 2005 20:11

Ali H seems to be blaming working class protestants for the Troubles, partition, and sectarian killing. I think this is disgusting. Remember that working class protestents also suffered discrimination from the Unionists in Stormont. Views like those of "Ali H" and "Reabhloid" are sectarian as they wish to blame protestants and wish to have catholic dominaiton.

The IRA have killed protestants for their religion. Remember Kingsmill? Remember how they took 11 workers out of a van and shot them in cold blood. Remember Enniskillen? Remember how they bombed a Service for the dead of WW1 simply because there were protestants there. Remember all the bombing campaigns in Britain which were aimed at killing innocent working class people simply because they are British. Sinn Fein still apologise for these actions.

I fully accept that the security forces, orangemen, and the loyalists are also sectarian bigots that have carried out autrocities. These people should be condemned as should the terrorism of SF/IRA. Finally, what gives you the right to be in the government in NI? The fact is that SF did not win a majority of votes. Nothing entitles them to be in a NI government. They only have 5 seats in Westminster out of over 600. They have 5 seats in the Dail out of 166. You are a minority group without a "right" to be in government.

PS:
Is it not hypocritical to want to be in government of the "artificial 6 county orange statelet" which you said should not be recognised!! And what are your views on the IRA being the government of Ireland?

by , Fri May 13, 2005 01:49

"Nationalists want a power-sharing government in Belfast."

dont you mean republicans want a ulster assembly in STORMONT?

by blah blah blah Fri May 13, 2005 04:41

"It is legitimate to demand that a rebel army not ignore wrongdoing by their fighters. But it is not legitimate to imply that they are doing so unless they turn the suspects over to the authorities with which they are at war."


ummm, the pira are no longer at war and no longer a rebel army, remember how they exchanged all that and destroyed weapons for the crown's paycheck and votes for seats in stormont and london? they ended their war and now demand that politics are they way forward, so let politics serve them as well and let europe condemn them as much as they want, after all it is only politics?!?!?! they placed themselves were they are today and still they complain about the heat in the kitchen! what happened to their ireland of equals, if some one anyone kills another in cold blood and destroys evidence to cover it up, should face the law equally as others who commit the same cold-blooded crime?......but then again the pira and sinn fein will be part of the police force very very soon. and those sisters are braver, stronger, and fighting harder than the pira have done in many years.

by John Fri May 13, 2005 14:20

The use of the mc Cartney murder by the opponents of SF is quite frankly sickening. The resolution put forward by Sf's group in the European Parliament rightly supported the sisters and partner of Robert Mc Cartney in their demand for justice. However this was not good enough for those whose interest in the case is purely as a means to attack Sinn Fein. Where were they 2 years ago when the short strand community was under siege from loyalist paramilitaries???
The other motion called on people to go directly to the PSNI to make statements and failed to mention other avenues such as the Politce ombudsman. This ignores the reality that in the Short Strand and in many republican areas the RUC/PSNI are seen as a brutal sectarian paramilitary force which have terrorised the community for 30 years whose aim was to defeat Republicanism. Many people in the area's experience of the police is of harassment and beatings. By not recognising the importance of the ombudsman this only serves to reduce the possibility of a successful conviction. In addition the motion gave the impression that the only combatant in the north over the last 30 years was the IRA who apparently fell out of the sky. How anyone with even the vaguest knowledge of irish politics could sign up to such a motion is beyond me. It just highlights the fact that the logic for those who drafted the motion was to ensure it was something that Sinn Fein could not sign up to.

by Fed up with hypocrites Fri May 13, 2005 14:36

You're right, John. The only solution to handle these Eurocrats is to BURN THEM OUT! WELL DONE BOYS, Threaten the women and children, much more effective than justice!

by blah blah blah Fri May 13, 2005 21:48

"This ignores the reality that in the Short Strand and in many republican areas the RUC/PSNI are seen as a brutal sectarian paramilitary force which have terrorised the community for 30 years whose aim was to defeat Republicanism"

same could be said about what the PIRA are doing now! remember that their members murdered a nationalist on the streets and covered up the truth and evidence?

just you wait for them to join the PSNI

by Neutral Sat May 14, 2005 01:00

Without taking sides; remember George Bradshaw RIP; CIE Bus Conductor; and the 2 other CIE workers RIP; murdered by British Army/RUC/PSNI/UVF/UDA/UFF agents in 2 car bombings in 1972/1973 in Sackville Place. Not to mention those killed RIP, seriously injured and maimed in the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings; plus all of those killed RIP, maimed and seriously injured in those other British Intelligence/British ArmyRUC/PSNI/So-Called 'Loyalist' terrorist attacks in the Republic and the Northern Ireland; especially between 1972-1977.

by jkihguw Sat May 14, 2005 14:29

It is possible to be against the Provos cover-up and also against the British cover-ups at the same time you know. Or are you saying that because the Brits did it it is ok for the Provos to?

Both were/are wrong. Get that through your thick skulls. SF supporters are absolutely wrong to justify anything about the McCartney murder and cover-up and their use of whataboutery to justify their actions is despicable.

by Neutral Sat May 14, 2005 16:49

2 wrongs don't make a right. All terrorist attacks; certainly against civilians are wrong and should be condemned by everybody.

by belfast socialist Sun May 15, 2005 22:41

and thats the problem with the sectarians on tha hill! they fight sectarianism with sectarianism, the bigotry of orangeism with a heavy dose of jingoistic tricolour waving, the discrimination because of your beliefs with a well when theres 50%+1 of catholics then we'l get our bastards in dublin to rule over our capitalist haven of a little green land!

nice to see some people with a bit of sense posting on this board though cause i sure as hell reject this crappy little country called norn iron but i aint going to support tha copmlete and utter betrayal of ordinary people by all of the 4 sectarian parties who would all sell their grannies to get into bed with each other.

surely sf cannot claim that everyone who voted for them voted for them to not take their seats in westminister. thats like claiming everyone who votes sp in dublin is a revolutionary socialist who is convinced of the trot analysis of contemprorary imperialist capitalism!