Gardai formally requested to apprehend Bush

by blackJ Thu Dec 01, 2005 16:02 mdaly at campus dot ie

The idiot going on about US law having effect in Ireland is completely wrong, the only way that can work is if Ireland implemented such provision in domestic law. Other wise it’s unconstitutional, only the oireachtas and the EU when necessary can make law in Ireland. If that was the case any country could make law about any other - if it were true, what do you think that makes the US so special that this could be enforced for them, and them alone?

Don’t be so ridiculous, admit you are wrong, or are you tainted by the US propaganda to know when you are wrong?

Your ‘facts’ are quite simply preposterous. Move along now. End of.

by Al Mon May 16, 2005 03:57

Dont want to spam just another thought. Felonies in America are not purely 'serious' offences, in certain states Road traffic laws are 'felonies'. A crime becomes a 'federal' matter merely by commiting the offence in more than one state or commiting an offence while crossing state lines, smuggling propable being the prime example.
I doubt America cares that much about certain offences to travel around the world looking for the guys that commited them.

by Al Mon May 16, 2005 03:53

Anthony,
Im not an expert on international law, I just dont comment on things I know nothing about.
As far as Indymedia being 'monitored', I presume I am not considered monitoring as I read this site purely in my spare time out of interest on my own part. Im sure agencies do have an interest in this site or if not this one (being the Irish version) then certainly others such as the American version, I am assuming there is a version for most countries.

by Anthony Sun May 15, 2005 22:12

Considering Al's day job is law enforcement, I'd be inclined to place more value on his understanding of international intra-judicial procedures. A10 doesn't exactly inspire confidence by consistently mis-spelling Reagan's (note the 'a') name. After some quick Googling for the "Reagan doctrine", I failed to find any mention of the idea that one can be arrested by American law enforcement for breaching US federal law without actually being in the US. A10's statement that:
_"if a US law of a federal offence or felony is comitted outside theUSA or the perperator comitts it in the USA and flees to another juristiction,or plans it outside the USA.The LEO of the USA or anyone so entitled to do so,may travel to a juristiction outside the USA and apprehend the said perperator"
is very unclear but he/she seems to be implying that US federal law applies world-wide. I know that the rulers of the US see themselves as "leaders of the free world" but I doubt that they are so arrogant to presume that they can legislate for the rest of the world. A10 should either clarify what he/she is trying to say or supply references citing the relevant legislation or provide an example where US law enforcement agencies openly (as opposed to clandestinely) apprehended someone without the co-operation of the local law-enforcement authorities (such as extradition) in another Western sovereign state. (They get away with a lot of dodgy activities in non-Western countries - Iraq being one obvious example)


Reagan Doctrine: (1985) was a response to the Brezhnev Doctrine of the Soviet Union. It aimed to justify American support of the Contras in Nicaragua, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan and Jonas Savimbi's Unita movement in Angola, along with other anti-communist resistance groups.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dr/17741.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine


Regarding the monitoring of Indymedia and other Internet traffic, I'd say A10 is right on that score. I'm sure at least one jobs-worth is paid by one law enforcement agency to monitor certain web sites such as this one.

by Al Sun May 15, 2005 21:02

A10, your so wrong you even admit it by tripping yourself up. 1st you say an American cop/agent can arrest in Ireland, then you say they can apply to have him arrested, which is it in your opinion? I know which is correct, do you? Hmmm, in fact maybe I will arrive in New York and arrest the first Irish guy I come across.
A bench warrant is for failing to appear in court, do you mean an arrest warrant? Issued by an American court or through Europol/Interpol?
Extradition treaty does not, I repeat it for you, does not allow for a person to be arrested in Ireland by an American cop/agent. It does allow for that person to be extradited by the Irish authorities to America to face a criminal charge. Its hardly the same thing.
Threatening someone outside Ireland by email, etc is an offence in Ireland so that kid was in trouble under Irish law regardless of the secret service. Just like accessing kiddie porn that originated in Mexico on a PC in Ireland. seems a bit strange that the feds could walk up to him and drag him onto a plane without even saying hello to the guards but decided to bring a few with them for the 'little chat'.
Seems to me your back tracking a little from your original post, for your ease of reference heres what you said "Yes,US law has been implimentd here without the Irish govts say so", then you post again stating "In other words if Ed Horgan and co plan this here and try and carry it out the US govt can apply to the Irish govt and have Horgan/Hogan and other misc muppetts arrested".
You dont really know what your talking about do you? A typical amateur lawyer guessing and half quoting laws.

by A10 Sun May 15, 2005 14:35

[Spelt correctly for those who have nothing better to do than pick on typos!!]
Simply put if a US law of a federal offence or felony is comitted outside theUSA or the perperator comitts it in the USA and flees to another juristiction,or plans it outside the USA.The LEO of the USA or anyone so entitled to do so,may travel to a juristiction outside the USA and apprehend the said perperator.In other words if Ed Horgan and co plan this here and try and carry it out the US govt can apply to the Irish govt and have Horgan/Hogan and other misc muppetts arrested.Or if they did comit it,the US could persue and apprehend them on Irish soil.And there would be sweet F$%K ALL the Irish govt would do to help you!!
The US law which allows it can be found under the first anti terrorisim bill of the Regan era.In it's more common form it is known as a Bench warrent issued by any court of the USA.As for the law that allows it ,there is a US/Irish extradition treaty.
As for Ed and Indeymedia not bein monitored
IT IS NOW!!!!!!!!!!
Hogan and Horgan are now definately on file with the US secret service.FACT!!!
Remember back a few years ago some retard college kid sent Bush a death threat from his computor a few years ago,here in Dublin???24 hours later the Gaurds and FBI were having a little chat with him.About possibly doing ten to twenty in club Fed.
Post 9/11 ANY crank,and nutcase is now investigated.
Sooo,altogether now."Every breath you take,every move you make,every crank idea you make,every dimwitt internet post you make.They are watching you."

by amused Sun May 15, 2005 08:10

even if he did land with that letter, when Air Force one is a 747 and NOT a 767, how would the Gards know when he arrives if you can't give the right description of the aircraft that he will be travelling on.

by Pete Fri May 13, 2005 21:58

with the revolving door policy he'd be out in no time even if convicted, he'd probally get free legal aid and the civil liberties doo gooders would have to back him if he even hinted an irish cop raised his voice to him while in custody, As for the secret service having an intrest in Ed Horgan - theres a better chance of Ed having an affair with the first lady while George is awaiting trial

by Al Fri May 13, 2005 14:18

Sorry A10 (insulted deleted -ed),I have heard of the 'Reagon doctrine'. Is that what you meant? The “Reagan Doctrine” was used to characterize the Reagan administration’s (1981-1988) policy of supporting anti-Communist insurgents in whatever country they might be in. This was targeted at soviet influence in foreign countries, Afghan being an example.
During this time they would support rebel fighters with training/arms/etc.
Please explain exactly how this has anything to do with Ireland?
Please explain where this allows for or even shows American law being enforced on foreign soil?
Please show me the American law/act/bill which gives American authorities such powers and then show me the Irish law/bill/act that allows for it.
Jesus, your talking about a nation that has different laws depending on the state you live in.

by A10 Fri May 13, 2005 12:16

Sorry Al,
Ever hear of the Regan doctrine?In regarding to the implimentation of US law outside CONUS?Read up on it somtime.Yes,US law has been implimentd here without the Irish govts say so,or not that they were too worried aboutit and quite glad when itdid happen
And you REALLY think the secret service isnt intrested in what goes on here???Righhhhhhtttt!!!There have been enough cases of Indymedia being monitored worldwide to prove otherwise.

by Al Thu May 12, 2005 23:43

hub,
Your an idiot. Thats it really, you attempted to arrest the US president? Dear sweet god. I explained citizens arrests already on another thread so im not doing it again. I repeat my request, show me an arrest warrant lawfully issued in any country for his arrest. Second, diplomats have immunity long before they even step off the plane. Its arranged by their nation and they are given a 'diplomatic' passport. Check your facts first hand please and stop getting it from the toilet.

A10,
US law cannot be implemented in Ireland without authorization from here. The secret service are not interested in whats written here.

by A10 Thu May 12, 2005 13:46

Are you people serious????Do you honestly THINK you will just stroll up to the POTUS and say you are arresting him for "war crimes"??? I think you would be all very quickly[and rightly so] bullet riddled corpses,or find yourselves trussed up and bundled off at high speed to the nearest prision or looney bin!!

Oh BTW!!.Making a threat of physical harm, detaining or intending to or conspiring to do so or being a member of a group conspiring to do so against any member of the US congress,the president of the USA or the supreme court ,or trheir families is a federal offence.WETHER IN THE USA OR IN A FOREGIN COUNTRY!!!!
Soooo I have forwarded this most intresting thread to the US secret service [as if they didnt know about it anyway no doubt] as well as ED's Limerick address,phone nr ,[if they didnt know it already].But hopefully the rest of you might get a nice visit from the local gardai,have your mail intercepted,and have the rest of your lives a mention in the Secret Service "Irish kooks and nuts to keep an eye on."file.I wouldnt be planning on going on any holidays to the USA either.LOL

by sinead Thu May 12, 2005 02:25

by ed horgan
no he wouldnt if arrested as a war criminal and also he would have to be registered as a diplomat here to have immunity

- but, if this was true, then arrest warrants could be issued in almost any country for Mugabe, Blair, Putin, Pinochet and Karzai.
Are you sure about your facts Ed??

by hub Thu May 12, 2005 00:57

that's why george won't meet any of us... I attempted to arrest him myself on one occasion unfortunately as you all know it was unsuccessful, you can bet your last drop of oil on it that, madzzer will not be open to the public any time soon

by Al Wed May 11, 2005 21:28

He would obviously have diplomatic immunity when in Ireland and therefore not arrestable for offences commited in Ireland. International war crimes? Show me an arrest warrant? IN fact, show me any international, lawfull document demanding his arrest.
I can only assume this post is a joke.

by Illegal Eagle Wed May 11, 2005 17:49

No, rooster. Bush is not 'embassy staff'. He is an alleged international war criminal and should therefore face those charges.

by ed horgan Wed May 11, 2005 17:46

no he wouldnt if arrested as a war criminal and also he would have to be registered as a diplomat here to have immunity

by rooster Wed May 11, 2005 17:41

Am I right in thinking embassy staff have diplomatic immunity? If so would'nt Bush be exempt from prosecution?

by shane ocurry - arrestbush.org Wed May 11, 2005 16:02

If the Gardaí fail to take action, Citizens arrest warrants are available from www.arrestbush.org

scroll down and click on image of free derry wall

download and serve

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