the 60th anniversary of the Sétif massacre. & "how it ended"

international | rights, freedoms and repression | other press

Monday May 09, 2005 12:17

by iosaf

pull up your stools, light your pipes, fill your glasses Iosaf is going tell one of his stories,

As you no doubt all now know, 60 years ago, the big war ended, when we the peoples of Eire were in the emergency, because we didn't know which was worse liberal imperialism or nazi-ism or bolshevism and if neutrality had worked for Franco and the Swiss, it might work for us too.

And on the 8th of May it ended in Europe. Well it had sort of ended before that, but the official ending was the 8th and the Russians held off making official announcements till the 9th. How did it really end? You may ask.

If you had these, they're called "papers", you had ID, a ration book, title deeds / rent-book, degree, CV, inter cert, driving license. They helped 60 years ago. Not many people had them.

But it all didn't end, oh no, the japanese went on fighting everyone else in the East, (the other side of the disk) till the replacement droid for Roosvely mr Trueman dropped weapons of mass destruction on them in august 1945.
Thats why the emperor and empress of Japan spent VE day in Glendalough yesterday, looking at St Kevin's grotto, and getting bitten by the midges.

So it was that on the 8th of May 1945, the world leadership had lots of leadering things to do. An it really is quite fascinating what they did.

The remnants of the Reich leadership put on funny moustaches, the wrong uniforms, and using faked student identity cards (the type you use when you're too young to drink but have the thirst on you) and made their way north to Scandinavia, south to Bavaria and Switzerland and west to Ireland and Spain.

Heh! yes - you there, yes you Seanín, get tyhat tobacco out of your mouth, I said spit it out. that's better.

Now where were we, oh yes, the leader of the Engurlish who at that time controlled a liberal imperial system on which the sun never set

::::"coz god wouldn'd trust them in the dark Iosaf!"

Yes, thank you for that interjection, Dunkie but I'm tellling the story here, anyway, the leader of the Engurlish was Winston Churchill he went to Westminister and told them all they had been saved from the threat of german domination and suggested they all leave the building and go out in the square outside and enter the little church and have a big pray in to say thanks the holy way. Thereafter all the engurlish had a massive party on the street and nine months later there was a baby boom.

And in Paris, the French, did the same sort of thing, their leader was charles de Gaule, and he gathered all his fans together at the Arc de Triomphe which had been built by Napoleon to comemorate perpetually his victories over the allied forces of europe, and sang the marseilles and got really drunk too. With them were lots of Americans, for at the end of the war almost 19,000 US troops had gone AWOL in France, and as a sign of their contribution to the genepool, Eurodisney was built years later outside of Paris on the massgraves of soldiers from World War One (the Great war to end all wars after the napoleonic wars). And of course there were spanish republicans too, coz they get everywhere, and Leclerc the free french general who had liberated Paris almost to the year before, had given some of those veterans of the Spanish civil war (to end all wars) a tank to drive down avenue de la grand armée and go under the arc de triomphe. But not all of them were there, for over 8000 had been sent to Mauthaussen concentration camp. and others had just died.

And in russia, everyone was delighted, becuase they knew that this now meant peace and prosperity and ice cream, because the radio had told them, "win the war against fascism and you get ice cream". Shostakovitch the popular composer was really happy, for he knew in his bones that it would only take another 10 years for his music to be played, because Stalin didn't like it. Stalin meanwhile was too busy being paranoid to worry about either ice cream or Shostakovitch, and at the same time he addressed all the russians and soviets in Moscow at the end of the Great Patriotic War, he had sent a forensic team to Berlin to examine every last inch (centimetre for the russians are metric) of the Berlin Bunker for traces of old Hitler's body.

What did I say about the tobacco chewing?
Yes spit it out. ALL OF IT.

In some places, the end of the war didn't seem like the end of the war. In southern germany, where many of the surviving Reich leadership were busy trying to get to, over 20,000 german troops remained in a bubble caught between US and USSR. It would take them many months to be "processed" and the end of the war for most europeans was this -

A radio announcement.

Within a week of the end of the radio announcement, the Austrian Composer Anton von Webern was shot by a U.S. army chef "in error" whilst lurking hungrily with intent around the lentil sack. And for many millions, hunger and as immediately after the first War, disease claimed lives.

why that?

glad you asked that, because there were very few towns with proper toilets left in Europe. And many millions of people in Europe were somewhere they didn't want to be. So they all started walking.
And so it was that 1945 is the year of European exodus.

Millions of people of our grandparents' generation walked, home, or somewhere else. They left their camps, and there were no bright young volunteers to give them blankets. There were no applauses ringing out through the sky, no cups of soup. And for many there were no homes to go to.

And so the leaders of the world, changed the maps. Because they thought that would help.

And Germany was divided into "sectors", between the Engurlish, the French, the Americans and the Russians. Berlin and Vienna were also divided.
And the Westminister parliament debated whether or not it should give a fig of aid to stop the germans starving in their sector, because the war had been very expensive, and there wasn't enough ginger pop to go around. The Americans within a few years decided to follow the suggestion of a man called Marshall, to give all the countries in Europe aid, so that they could have bridges, houses, and toilets again. And also so they could plough the land destroyed by war and grow potatoes.

-Just like they'd done in peace?

Quite. Just like they'd done in peace.- All the jewish people who had survived and walked around Europe for several years looking in vain for their homes, without certificates to prove they ownded a heap of rubble, were offered Israel to live in a few years later but many of them had been rehoused in special camps built for the purpose along with german prisoners of war, and several thousand spanish falangists in the Ukraine and Bylerussia by Stalin, where they were so well looked after, over 70% of them were never heard of again.

-Wow! What did we do?

Well, Eamon De Valera went to the german ambassador, and said he was very sad that Hitler had died, and would do his best to get on with not only the next generation of American presidents but also help in something called "paperclips" to move stationary across the Atlantic to both north and southern continents.

-did he get marshall aid for that?

I delight in your interest, seanín, no, he got no marshall aid, and nor did his mate Franco for a while, and after Stalin rejected liberal imperialist conditions being set on marshall aid neither did Eastern Europe. At which point Churchill first madew reference to the "iron curtain", coz with aid, the germans were able to rebuild their country, but without aid the soviet sector was much slower and quickly and awfully became a stalinist dictatorship which was called the DDR.

What's this got to do with the 60th anniversary of the Sétif massacre, -and why is this in other press??????????????

Sorry, risible and chekov, didn't notice you come in there in the back row. Well, on the 8th of May 1945 when the radio announcements were made for those lucky enough to be eating military rations or living at home, many thousands of Algerians were shot by the French military at Sétif whislt demostrating for independence.
Algerians say 40,000 - 45,000.
the French say 15,000 - 20,000-
And indeed France has still not officially admitted responsibilty for the massacre.

here are the memorial links-

http://news.tf1.fr/news/monde/0,,3217930,00.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3224,36-647354@51-647257,0.html
http://www.walf.sn/international/suite.php?rub=6&id_art=19189
http://www.lequotidien.sn/articles/article.CFM?article_id=24419
http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/20050508.FIG0152.html
http://iblnews.com/news/noticia.php3?id=128016
http://permanent.nouvelobs.com/etranger/20050508.OBS6011.html
http://www.swissinfo.org/ses/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5763649&cKey=1115566526000
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=295096
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3224,36-647179@51-647257,0.html

last links on neutrality / emergency period in Switzerland as the swiss examine their war time past which has taken them 5 years, and has only just been completed and has had repercussion at every level, in every bank, and will now form part of an agreed schooling education module, so that others just like yourselves learn about the past-

http://www.swissinfo.org/ses/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=5758051
http://www.swissinfo.org/ses/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1074965
http://www.swissinfo.org/ses/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=4290498
http://www.swissinfo.org/ses/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=4594802

Algeria after 8 years fighting the soldiers of France (including one certain Chirac) finally achieved her independence in 1962

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Comments (9 of 9)

by magdalene?

Mon May 09, 2005 13:22

though taken in 1944 in France, this photo illustrates the animosity and some of the acts of revenge which were taken on young women for "colloboration" throughout Europe. In 1945 as the exodus began hair was generally short and the length identified the stragglers on the road. People pointed and said unkind things.
And tatoos were of great importance. No-one has seen a camp tatoo forgets them. But there were others- The Allied forces had not the resources to process all their german prisoners, and thus seperated them, regular troops could go home, all officers of the SS had their number tattooed on their arms in blood, (with some notable exceptions) and they were processed differently, the Americans had issued a list "most wanted" - the Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects [CROWCASS] compiled by the Allied High Command in Paris for circulation to detention camps throughout Europe.
But when Truman dropped the bombs in August even the americans wanted to go home.

I want you all to know, it didn't end with ice cream and ginger pop. Thus we can move to Multi-polarity of memory and ensure no more war.

many people had to leave their homes.

radio announcements were made for those lucky enough to be eating military rations or living at home

by rooster

Mon May 09, 2005 17:56

Obviously the author of this thread has never eaten military rations, people lucky enough to be living at home? like eires population?
Oh, and it was''nt the english, it was the british, carry on with your story............

the average ration of a citizen of Eire was one third of a civilian in the UK.

Mon May 09, 2005 21:20

to wit a cup of tea, at one 16th of an ounce for every four days for an Eirinn as opposed to one fresh cup of tea every two days for a Briton.
Thank you for that rooster, now use your search button for the article entitled : "the price of a cup of tea" and then remember the old days when one Irish penny weighed a 16th of an ounce, or something else like that. Both Allied and Axis forces relied heavily on trans-atlantic supplies of canned Beef, this had meant complex diplomatic arrangements and non aggression pacts which delayed the first american law companies and partnerships opening offices in seven of the beef producing and canning South American states.
Tell you about that another time. Did you like your story? By the way the average calorific intake in a NAZI concentration camp was 900 calories.

"Invisible, marginalisée, oubliée." = "Invisible, Marginalised, Forgotten"

Tue May 10, 2005 12:08

On the 17th of March, (paddy's day) as keen readers will remember Franco finally left his plinth in Madrid as his statue was removed, there also appeared a full page advert in Le Monde calling for attendance in this year's memorial of the massacres in Algeria in the towns of Sétif and Guelma on the 8th of May 1945.

Descended from immigrants for the most part the demonstrators assembled at the place de la République and marched to the church of St Bernard in the XVIII arrondissement, the focus of most protest activity of the "sans papiers" movement in France these last few years.

The procession numbered by organisers at between 2 and 3 thousand and only 700 according to police Carried banners :-
"Invisible, marginalisée, oubliée." = "Invisible, Marginalised, Forgotten"
"Nous sommes les indigènes de la République !"
= "we are the indiginous of the Republic!"

Many chanted -
"France, France, assume ton héritage"
="France, France assume your heritage", and when arriving at Gare du Est (one the main Parisien railway stations) they changed the name of the street in front (8th of may) to "place de Sétif-Guelma, en mémoire de tous les crimes coloniaux" = "Sétif-Guelma place in memory of all colonial crimes"

The crowds included youngsters proclaiming their pluricultural indentities as both French and muslim, their plurinationalities as both French and Algerian. Support was notably given by teaching associations in the economically marginalised suburbs to the north of the city, and by the popular "fusion style" music group Zebda. Prominent members of the political parties of the left and even more left attended including representatives of the Greens, Socialists, and Communists.

The league for human rights, also took part and played an organisation role, as it continues to do in the publicity for "sans papiers" (= paperless migrants to Europe), as in Spain and Barcelona there are non-regularised migrants in Paris who have sustained these last weeks in hunger strike demanding complete regularisation without conditions and an end to the European Union policy of internment camps and criminalisation of the migrant work force.
http://www.ldh-france.org/

For photos see link

"French military memory"

by i

Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:35

As of a few days the French minister of the defence, Michèle Alliot-Marie attended a ceremony of remembrance for the 50th anniversary of the indo-china campaign honouring an unknown soldier draped in the tricolour and given all military honours.
Curiously it was Alliot-Marie the highest level minister and not the minister for veterans the algerian born Hamlaoui Mekachera.
For some it marked yet another bout of patriotism perhaps aimed at the jingoist chauvinists who voted non! for others it marked bitter memories of the global situation before the Vietnam war [c/f
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69631
For others it signals a return to the rehabilitation of colonialism. Such a rehabilitation would mean more than one side, it would also require a recognition of what occured at Setif....
article in today's libération.-
http://libe.com/page.php?Article=302971

read the bible by Fanon

by Barry

Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:04

What emerged from the Algerian struggle was perhaps the most seminal and thought provoking work on colonialism " the wretched of the earth" by Franz Fanon . My personal bible/koran

http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Fanon.html

http://www.socialistworld.net/eng/2002/04/30.html

heres a nice preface to "Wretched of the Earth" written by Jean Paul Sartre .

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/1961/preface.htm

Even though Franz was dead the French government banned his book on the grounds of national security . Sartre went ahead and published anyway . Fair play to him .
The French left, including the communists opposed the Algerian independence movement . It was french soil at the end of day , sorta like the English labour partys traditional stance on their wee colony here .
They branded Algerian freedom fighters as nazis, facists etc . Sort of like what some on the left call Irish freedom fighters . The worlds very samey when you think about it .

quelle surprise

Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:27

Iraqi freedom fighters today branded facist , nazi etc . Why cant they have a nice chivalrous revolution over there then MAYBE we'd support them .

The bombing of Algeria this week attributed to "Al Qaeda" & Salafist elements,

Thu Apr 12, 2007 22:03

has served not only to traumatise Algerian society with now hallmark polarisation but also to influence the debate amongst candidates in the French Presidential elections scheduled for April 22nd.

I thought to remind readers of just one chapter in French imperial history as one of the architects of the current 5th republic saw his nation celebrate the end of continental war in Europe and resist any immediate temptation to break the irons of metropole dominion in north Africa.

Algeria of course shaped more than one candidate and many voters in these forthcoming hustings. The outgoing president who declined to contest the role again on March 11th Mr Chirac fought the Algerians during that period generally called "the Algerian war of independence". Mr Le Pen of the "no darkies party" was another frog whose life prejudices would be shaped through that war. But Chirac's recent visit to Algeria not only reflected any "new era of co-operation & mutual respect & tinkering with gas supplies into the next 60 years" but also the now unquestionable and immutable role of real Algerians with not much in the way of Frenchy grandparents in modern France. Algeria might be their metropole now as much as it might be a problematic & abused diasporia motherland. But we are fast approaching the stage when must properly treat upon parity & equality on both shores of the Mediterranean. I believe at least 40% of the candidates for French Presidency subscribed already to the slogan "a sea of rights" on Bloomsday 2004. c/f http://www.indymedia.ie/article/69020?comment_limit=0&c...false If we do not establish that "sea of rights" then our hope of liberty for Africa has moved no further than Fanon's generation. (Fanon's work was linked to up the page by a commentator). Because ye must never forget - Africa is owned. you aren't the owner but you share skin defects with the people who are.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/70578

may the victims of terror in Algeria rest in peace & we not reflect on the date of this latest atrocity.
.:. Saleem.

Sarko in Algeria

by .:.

Thu Dec 06, 2007 08:51

Most people in Ireland are probably busy pondering the French thing today. I'm sure of it. How did Sarko do it, they ask? 2 radio broadcasts to FARC, not a squeek from Chavez & all in the same day Sarko had walked the streets of Constantine amid hoorays and hulabaloos & calls for the Algerian president Abdelaziz Bouteflika (70 years old bless him) to stretch the constitution & get a 3rd mandate as the Algerian "man".
Of course Sarko never fought in an French army in Algeria & so could mutter & gurgle about French excesses on the law & order front - back then. I'd be dishonest & far from succint if I didn't let you know that we're not talking about 100% Algerian public gullibility here. The sterling newspaper "El Watan" of teh sort of outspoken kind which would get shut down or decreed out in many a better or worse state thought it was all a matter of ego. Sarko likes being on telly, perhaps even more since the missus left him.
qui parle de lui comme d’un homme «enfermé dans cet ego patriotique typique des militants d’extrême droite français qui rechignent à regarder leur passé, aussi terrifiant qu’abominable en Algérie».

oh yes. Far right. typically so. abominably so. Who the fuck would not notice he was president of France & let him steal cards across the bridge table?

bet yiz don't play bridge.
chavs.
the lot of ye.
but ask yerselves this - how many of you have the need to wear a red shirt?

_________________________________

we need 5 credible names by 2008. one can be Hugo's daugher. two can be his military comrades. two can be from the other 5 pillars of the constitution. ah - but I make it too easy for yiz.
that's coz even though I don't have the betancourt card, I don't want anyone else to either. especially not upwind from a US democrat regime. missus.

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the 60th anniversary of the Sétif massacre. & "how it ended"

Comments (9 of 9)