Pitstop Ploughshares trial - Day Five

by Duine Fri Mar 11, 2005 17:11

Táim idir dhá aigne i leith an ghnímh seo.
Is léir gur críostaithe buíon den cúigear, ach cé go raibh an Iosrael lonnaithe ag na Rómháinigh dhá mhíle bliain ó shoin, is beag a dhúirt ná a dhearna Íosa ina thaobh.
Tá dia beag déanta de choincheap seo na síochána, ach ní hionann an tsíocháin a bhunú agus agóid a dhéanamh i gcoinne daoine a bhfuil tuairimí acu nach dtaithnaíonn leat. Rinne na daoine seo an agóid toisc nach raibh eagla a mbeatha acu. Is beag tír ina bhféadfadh a leithéid a dhéanamh, agus níl, ná ní raibh an Iaráic orthu.
Seans go bhfuil na daoine seo faoi thionchar Geandaí, an fealsamh agus gníomhaí Indiach. Ach bhí scéal eile aige. Ní dóigh liom go ndearna sé dochar fisiciúil riamh.
Ní maith liom bheith thíos ar na daoine seo ach ní dóigh liom gurb é seo bóthar na síochána.
Ach is maith liom a bpaisean is a misneach.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Fri Mar 11, 2005 17:39

Judge O'Donnell has risen to consider the serious submissions of Counsel.
After further legal argument in the afternoon that covered much of yesterday's happenings in the court, the Judge said that he would make a ruling on Monday morning.

by Con Carroll - Class-war Fri Mar 11, 2005 18:27 Dublin

As one of the people who have been attending the anti-war activists court case I want to make some observations
The Catholic workers have every right whom they want present in their court case. One couldn't help but notice the exert presence of clergy in attendance as if this was going to have some input into Justice o Donnells ruling.
I am annoyed at Ciaron o Reilly comments towards other people who were present in the court on Monday. After the Court on Monday when Ciaron refered to people who attended the court as infiltrators. Whom is Ciaron speaking about or is he paranoid? If this is the way he speaks about other people who support anti war activists then why should people come to support them.
Justice O Donnell was arrogant and obnoxious in making sure that the political consequences of war was not brought into the trial.
Ciarons evidence to the court was to make sure that the Catholic Workers action in Shannon against war was political action, and this he did. That the 5 Catholic workers who were at Shannon were not there for the fun we would hope.
To be truthful and if I am a supporter I have to be honest Ciaron does have a ego personality. He needs to treat other people and activists with respect if he can't do this then he shouldn't be a activist

by Michael Fri Mar 11, 2005 18:51

I wasn't there myself, so I didn't hear Ciaron call anyone names.

You don't sound like you're trying to pick on him or the others, but if you've been following the story of their case on Indymedia you'll know that some people here CONSTANTLY nag about priests, the pope, and the Catholic church in general, whenever one of the CW5 speaks up.

Please just leave it off until the trial is over. Then you can say all you like about the defendants.

by M Fri Mar 11, 2005 19:39

Con,
I too was at court this week but stayed outside to form part of the vigil to remember the war dead as the defendants had asked people to do.
I'm not a Catholic myself but met lots this week including visiting priests, nuns and one bishop who came to support the Pitshop Ploughshares. Many had come from America and the UK where they had previously met one of the group, taken part on actions with them or were simply anti-war activists themselves. They came to Dublin for the court case and events surrounding it to show support for the five defendants whose Catholic faith had inspired them to take this action. As a non-religious person I didn't take this to be a trial ploy of filling the court with priests (as you seem to have done) but as a genuine act of solidarity and support.
I was very glad to take part in the silent walk to the court and to join the numbers to show support to all five during what must be a very difficult week for them.

On Tuesday evening after court Ciaron addressed the crowd of supporters and said that there was someone in court who was unnerving some of the defandants and that they had made it clear that they were not there in solidarity or support with them. As the defendants were going to start taking the stand on Wednesday he was obviously concerned that they were all in the best possible frame of mind, having enough other things to worry about. I know if I was asked not to come to court, whatever my intentions, I'd respect their decision and stay away. To unsettle them during this trial, intentionally or otherwise, is just not on as their lives for the next few years are on the line. While I don't support everything the Catholic Workers are about and have some issues I'd like to debate with them, I do think that they need support at the moment. I know this support is greatly appreciated by them, and they DO welcome the non-faith people too. It would be a pity to let this stream of court reporting and information descend into squabbling, finger-pointing and name-calling as many Indymedia threads seem to. Yes, Ciaron does seem to get up some people's noses but I'd let them off with almost anything while this court case is on. And if someone was asked not to come to court, they obviously weren't acting in support by showing up......

by Bonzo Fri Mar 11, 2005 20:39

"He needs to treat other people and activists with respect if he can't do this then he shouldn't be a activist"

And this from Con?

by jams o'donnell Fri Mar 11, 2005 23:54

Ta suil agam go bhfuil an ceart agat -nach ndearna Gandhi dochair fisiciuil d'einne ina shaol. Ach ni dhearna an cuigear CW dochair fisiciuil ach an oiread. Rinne siad dochair don eitilean. Is mor an difear.

by Green Paddy Sat Mar 12, 2005 05:02

My guess is that they are more followers of Christ than of Ghandi. While Christ was a pacifist - note his attitude to the Roman colonisers, turning the other cheek, going the extra mile - he made a whip of cords and drove the money changers and traders out of the temple. He also drove the (2000 was it?) pigs into the sea and they all drowned. I don't think he would object to weapons of war being dismantled. He told Peter put away his sword - Those who live by the sword will perish by the sword.

Great work by the five CWs and their supporters. Go n-eiri libh to leir.

by Dr Raeder Anderson - IAWM Sat Mar 12, 2005 16:35 raeder1a at yahoo dot com (918) 825-2738

Judge O'Donnell, by not allowing evidence of the defense, concomitant inability "to conduct this case," not allowing photos of dead Iraqi children, his comment (on Ciaron's) of the lack of UN mandate for war in Iraq, and, in general, support and coziness with the prosecution, indicates that this example of jurisprudence has all the promise of a "Kangaroo Court." Clearly, the judge does not want this case to be an paradigm of "War on Trial," but a mere case of criminal damage without a "reason or lawful excuse," i.e., to prevent further death and the advancement of an illegal and immoral war.

Dr Raeder Anderson

by supporter Sat Mar 12, 2005 17:13

As someone who is close enough to the people on trial at the moment, I'd like to point out that they do not deliberately pack the courtroom with clergy - it's just that there are clergy who are anxious to support them, for their own private reasons of faith or goodwill.
From what I know, the Catholic Workers are not all Catholic specifically. Those of them who are Catholic are not ashamed of it, and shouldn't have to apologise for it.

There was someone in the court all week who indicated openly that they were there to disrupt and distract the proceedings. When you are going through a trial, you can't be spending time worrying about disruptive influences. Most of the people who came to court are genuine supporters and have been with the group all along, but there are one or two who are there for the wrong reasons - to disrupt or to treat the whole thing as a circus. Those who are not there to show their support or have problems with the type of support in the courtroom, should probably not attend.

by stephen Mon Mar 14, 2005 01:41

As one of the priests in daily attendance at the Pitstop Ploughshares trial, I would be only too delighted to engage in conversation with anyone who would like to listen to my reasons for being present. Fr. Stephen

by Duine Mon Mar 14, 2005 15:43

Is chuig an focal fisiciúil atá tú.
Deir an Foclóir Beag:

fisiciúil [aidiacht den dara díochlaonadh]
a bhaineann le cúrsaí ábhartha agus ní le cúrsaí intinne (ionsaí fisiciúil); a bhaineann leis an gcorp agus ní leis an aigne (aclaíocht fhisiciúil).

Seo an bhrí a bhí mé chuige:"a bhaineann le cúrsaí ábhartha ". Ná bí id chailipéara.

by Duine Mon Mar 14, 2005 16:08

Is dóigh go bhfuil do thuairim faoi líonta lucht leanúna Chríost is Gheandaí ceart.
Ba mhian le hÍosa an tSíocháin a chruthú seachas dul i ngleic leis an Cogadh. Tuigim gur chuir sé an ruaig ar dhaoine sa Theampall. Fearg a bhí air. Ní léir go ndearna sé aon dochar. Maidir leis na muca, ní chuimhin liom an líon ach ní dóigh liom go raibh sé chomh mór le dhá mhíle, más buan mo chuimhne, iad fhéin a rith le faill ar a gconlán féin.
Ó sea, thug sé ar Pheadar an claíomh a chur ar leataobh i ndiaidh an dochar a ndearna Peadar a leigheas.