Drawing battle lines for peace?

by Barry Fri Mar 25, 2005 06:55

your quotes from Ghandi are very good. Ghandi demanded. without equivocation whatsoever, an absolute end to the British occupation of his country. He refused to accept anything less than this.

There is no disputing this whatsoever.

Unfortunately you seem to support the acceptance of British rule in this country. Could you please explain to myself why I should accept the occupation of my nation by a foreign power ?
Especially one with so much blood on its hands, not only here but currently in Iraq.

I dont doubt for a minute you desire peace, but please explain how peace can come through foreign occupation. How can people be seriously expected to lie down and accept it. They never have anywhere else in the world. Ghandi certainly never accepted occupation by Britain.

The GFA is a recipe for disaster as it simply legitimises an illegal and immoral occupation, and is successfully marketed as peace. Conflict is assured as the issue of the occupation is not addressed.

This is not a dig at yourself Michelle as I believe you are a genuine pacifist. However I believe your unquestioning endorsement of the GFA blinds you to the reality of the fact of occupation, and the dismissal of the genuine opposition to it which exists. And always has existed throughout our history. My belief is firm that this oppositionis utterly legitimate and always has been. The GFA states otherwise.

Opposition to British occupation was a liberation struggle , not a prolonged sectarian riot as Downing street recently stated.

Despite Adams acceptance and collaboration with the establishment, this opposition will continue, as it always had. The GFA offers only more suppression, Draconian laws and self denal and censorship. This has been a proven recipe for disaster throughout history and no doubt will be again. Ireland has had enough self denial, weve swapped blind obedience and unquestioning of the church, to the same blind adherence to the GFA. No questioning, analysis or criticism whatsoever. And if you do you are an utter heretic and extremist who must be silenced.

Think about it, who dares question the GFA in nationalist Ireland, and what would be their fate. ? Now think back to the 30s and 40s. Have we changed that much ?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Thu Mar 24, 2005 22:22

You state they did this with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

Well, tomorrow for Sinn Fein is about anniversaries....and I hope for the sake of the people of Ireland that the Good Friday Agreement is honoured and permitted to grow to a peaceful conclusion.

Today's Daily Ireland had a number of interesting articles. However, one heading attracted my attention:

Simply it reads 'The agreement is the greatest threat to Unionism'.

It is written by Jude Collins, an Academic, writer and broadcaster.

Let us remember: The IRA called the ceasefire in the early 1990's:

James Molyneux, Ulster Unionist Leader, declared that Union with Britain was now faced with its greatest threat.......since the Foundation of the State / Island of Ireland

And here we are again, just over a decade, and the Good Friday Agreement has faltered and to the Fore are the SDLP on the Unity of Ireland front...

Are we saying that all work done to date is cast to the high winds... Surely, not.

The Good Friday Agreement had support behind it in the early 1990s....we must recall for the South of Ireland, we had a Cub facing near distinction that grew to being a Tiger..the Celtic Tiger.

Let's get real. Let's review the situation. We face the European Constitution issue shortly and we need to realise how best to provide for people North and South a just and equitable society.

We may be talking about a Pilgrim Path but please let us proceed and learn.

Michelle


Gandhi
'Live as if you are going to die tomorrow, but learn as if you are going to learn for the rest of your life'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Thu Mar 24, 2005 22:22

You state they did this with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

Well, tomorrow for Sinn Fein is about anniversaries....and I hope for the sake of the people of Ireland that the Good Friday Agreement is honoured and permitted to grow to a peaceful conclusion.

Today's Daily Ireland had a number of interesting articles. However, one heading attracted my attention:

Simply it reads 'The agreement is the greatest threat to Unionism'.

It is written by Jude Collins, an Academic, writer and broadcaster.

Let us remember: The IRA called the ceasefire in the early 1990's:

James Molyneux, Ulster Unionist Leader, declared that Union with Britain was now faced with its greatest threat.......since the Foundation of the State / Island of Ireland

And here we are again, just over a decade, and the Good Friday Agreement has faltered and to the Fore are the SDLP on the Unity of Ireland front...

Are we saying that all work done to date is cast to the high winds... Surely, not.

The Good Friday Agreement had support behind it in the early 1990s....we must recall for the South of Ireland, we had a Cub facing near distinction that grew to being a Tiger..the Celtic Tiger.

Let's get real. Let's review the situation. We face the European Constitution issue shortly and we need to realise how best to provide for people North and South a just and equitable society.

We may be talking about a Pilgrim Path but please let us proceed and learn.

Michelle


Gandhi
'Live as if you are going to die tomorrow, but learn as if you are going to learn for the rest of your life'

by Barry Sun Mar 20, 2005 02:34

But has been pointed out in a number of other threads, the responsiblity and control for intelligence gathering and security assessments within the 26 cos also rests with British intelligence. This was highlighted by Fred Holroyd in his address to the Dublin Monaghan relatives. Virtual control of state intelligence was handed over at Baldonnel airport in 1974. A large proportion of the free state branch are trained and work closely with MI5/6. It beggars belief that these people are not recruited into MI5 as a matter of routine given hoew close the links are.This has been the case for decades now, if not from the forces actual inception.

Therefore there is little real difference between the agendas of the cops both sides of the border, the British pull the strings of both. Thats why its no surprise there are as many state cover ups of "loyalist" mass murders south of the border as in the north.

The plain fact is that Sinn Fein accepted British rule on this island as legitimate when they signed up to the GFA. They became part of the administration of British rule here, and were only too happy to sign away political status for POWs in the north, allowing the state which Sinn Fein then served to criminalise them. While the British State criminalised republicans in Maghaberry, Sinn Fein poured out a stream of black propaganda against anti GFA republicans, readily assisting in the process of criminalisation of republicans.

This continued right up to the week before the bank was robbed, when Pat Doherty toured Strabane with the BBC blaming "dissidents" for a series of robberies, simply on the evidence of the "dogs in the street". Doherty demanded the PSNI publicly name the groups and arrest those responsible.

When RIRA POWs embarked upon a prolonged dirty protest in pursuit of political status, the Sinn Fein leadership actually expelled two senior SF members, MLA John Kelly and Clr Martin Cunningham simply for speaking out AGAINST criminalisation.

Now that the establishment in which they served, and will no doubt serve again, has turned on them in order to secure their militias disbandment and the final treacherous arms surrender, it amazes me how sinn fein still claim the " republican struggle" is being criminalised.

SINN FEIN ABANDONED THE REPUBLICAN STRUGGLE WHEN THEY ACCEPTED BRITISH RULE.

They actively assisted in its administration and in the suppression of dissent against continuing British occupation. They eagerly helped the British criminalise republicans themselves, and are now victims of their own making. They got themselves into this mess and have a nerve trying to act the martyr, and wrap the green flag round them and claim persecution. But then patriotism ahs always been the last refuge of the scoundrel.

No-one should be under any illusions here. Adams and McGuinness WILL accede to McDowells, Blair and Bushs demands. They will become part and parcel of THEIR vision of Irelands future, encouraging young nationalists to don British PSNI uniforms and go out on the streets with British guns to protect the British state. Thats what they signed up to in the GFA.

All the fancy rhetoric about equality and reconciliation is mere pissing in the wind. Britain will still occupy part of the Irish nation directly, and indirectly control the rest of the island.

Thats is not a recipe for peace but a recipe for total and utter disaster. This merely ensures the conflict will erupt again, and this time there will be more blood spilled and lives ruined within the nationalist community than ever before, because treacherous leaders will not only administer British rule, but encourage our young peopoe to join the PSNI and go out and defend it.

Sinn Fein and the provisionals have criminalised and disgraced themselves, not republicanism, because as a body they are no longer republican, radical or revolutionary.

Unfortunately Irelands struggle against British dominion will go on into the future, with Adams and co in the ranks of the establishment.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sat Mar 19, 2005 23:01

Orwellian times - O yes.

Recently I started reading a book by George Orwell and what wisdom he had then albeit it is now history.

Discussion, opinion, views, interchange, exchange.....I so agree with you.

Kevin has is views and its healthy.

Have you any words about the Peace Process now other than it is down a Cul-de-sac?

My hope is that it is down a cul-de-sac and can be put into sufficient reverse to get it up and start pacing and running again.

There is undue reporting against Sinn Fein; the petty mindedness of excluding them from the President Bush St. Patrick's day festivities indicated the mindset of spoilt children excluding those that they have formed a dislike to based on personal insecurities .....? I suggest it is President Bush's form of distraction technique for the masses.......

Earlier in my life, I studied a little bit of constitutional law in the UK. All that rattles through my (ABI/Bipolar brain) is what happened to Collective Responsibility? The Rule of Law, we have breached and humanity suffers for economic greed. We have plenty of evidence on this count but the heist......where is it?

Argument and debate yes but surely and I felt this before the so-called heist, there ought to have been a move towards Collective Responsibility with the imminent potential of a Peace Process.....a process that involved over 10 years work, input, etc.

I note someone escaped into a Japanese banking system in London (a small adaptor) saved hundreds of millions....yet we hear nothing of the implications of Hackers!!!

Yes, Orwell. We need to halt the decline in reading skills. We need to Pay heed to people like Professor Robertson in Trinity and his findings in neurological psychological areas of brain activity.

There is a change. It is time to look at findings like these.

You see, there is strong evidence that the historic or long-term memory can be combined with the now and there can be activation. This is a major benefit to people like me with acquired brain injury and no short-term memory.

The key is recognising that reading is what consolidates the long term memory.....

Yes, Orwell, and Kevin, I am delighted to be able to discuss matters.

Good luck


Michelle

I must quote John Hume 'Diversity in Unity'

by kh - NMN Sun Feb 13, 2005 17:31 Limerick

My article does not try and indict anyone for anything - it reports the state of play in this issues as being widely reported and leaves it up to the reader to form their own opinions on matters - and you seem yourself to have your own insight into circumstances.

Thank you for contributing your thoughts - such dialogue is vital in these Orwellian times.

by Kevin Walsh Sun Feb 13, 2005 01:17

In relation to Keith Harris' article 'Drawing Down the Battle Lines' - a sad comment, comme il faut i.e. As It Should be, Quite Proper, Quite According to Etiquette or Rule - Keith it is about the Truth but sadly, in Ireland we cannot handle the Truth.

Hugh Orde, the present PSNI Chief Constable:
This man was the dark horse to replace Ronnie Flanagan. Orde was young at the age of 43 - I am sure you are aware he had many enemies in London and Belfast - he did create waves when as a Deputy Assistant Commissioner in the Met. Ironically he had day to day handling in the Stevens enquiry into Dirty Tricks by the Special Branch and MI5 and of course the Spooks in Army Intelligence.

McDowell has been cited as saying 'Hugh Orde is the clean new face of policing in the North of Ireland' - I question that Keith, believe you me. It is amazing the senior RUC officers who applied with Orde for the top job. All of them surprisingly have disappeared from the scene. Others have received Golden Handshakes and gone into the shadows. The Special Branch which posed the Greatest Threat through its control of certain sections of the media has gone the way of the Stasi! Orde was especially hand picked by Tony Blair (Spooky).

Orde now has to rely on Intelligence from the shadows of MI5 because he is left now without the political network of the informers and most of the technical resources (electronics surveillance systems) which the old RUC (bigoted) Special Branch had. In the last number of years, Orde is totally reliant on MI5 as to what is going on in the Republican movement.

It is strange the appointment of Dubliner Sinead McSweeney as is head of Media and Public Relations. Now Keith - it gets more spooky. McSweeney, a special adviser to McDowell at the Department of Justice, former barrister in the AG's office and more spooky Keith, was assistant to Bertie Ahern when he was in opposition. McSweeney is one slick individual and she would have a lot of knowledge about the Southern political and civil service.

Now Keith, do you see where I am going here. I am going into a dirty shadowy shade of Irish Politics. Ray Burke sat in Stormont, London, Dublin, in his portfolio for Justice and Foreign Affairs, in crucial talks during this Peace Process.

Did Bertie know he was sitting beside a criminal?

People bash Sinn Fein's version of Criminality. Now I ask you Mr. Harris, what is Fianna Fail's version of criminality? This process needs Ahern to get the PD monkey off his back and start talking common sense. In your article, you tried and convicted the IRA of being responsible for the bank heist. Look to Iraq and the innocent slaughter of men, women and children on the basis of MI5 information.

Now I beg the question where did Orde get the information from about this bank heist? He certainly did not get it from the old Branch - they are all gone now. Some got the option of Face Prosecution or Resign and they all got Golden Handshakes, just the same as Former Garda Chief Superintendent, Denis Fitzpatrick, who was allowed resign with his Golden Handshake during one of the biggest Gardai corruption in the history of the State (Donegal).

Mr. Harris, I think Orde may have this time received his information from the Gardai because of his close personal links with Noel Conroy - Head of the Gardai but the way the leaks emerged from the media raises some serious questions.

How can Bertie Ahern take the word of a British Police officer who is obsessed with becoming the Commissioner of the Metropolitan police in a few years. The consequences for Bertie and Orde are great, if they get it wrong. For Bertie, he will bluff his way out of it as normal, but for Orde, he will find McDowell's phone engaged 24 hours x 7. Note, if wrong, there may be serious consequences for the people of Ireland, on the word again of a British constable.

Now have a good look at the FF front bench and realistically try and count how many criminals you see i.e. apart from the Minister for Foreign Holidays (Mutton Pullen). You see Keith......nobody can take the High Ground in this country because when the squirrel comes out of hibernation in a few weeks, Bertie, the mad Mullah, Adams, McGuinness, Blair, and of course Pat O'Neill will be sitting down, having a chat and a cappucino, I hope for the sake of the People of the Island of Ireland.




Kevin Walsh

by skeptomaniac Sun Feb 13, 2005 00:06

Loyalists found passing 100 n.i.b. notes were questioned and let go, there houses were searched thousands of nib notes found and were released after two hours.
This robbery was a setup. Aherne and blair are desperate to regain the power lost in local elections . The Gardai are still 'looking for leads' yet they say the ira. done it.

With no invite to the shite house on padys day, SF are being forced to get into bed with the neofacists ( bush blair, aherne etc),and abandon their present struggle or find themselves excluded and branded as terrorists- by the greatest terrorists of all.
Have you EVER seen the dail hacks so united on an issue branding sf as terrorists, because theyre all threatned by the growing mandate SF are getting. These are the same dail cowards who voted secretly to allow shannon to remain open to the us terrorists without U.N.backing.

by kh Sat Feb 12, 2005 21:31

Note that references to the International Monitoring Commission should read Independent Monitoring Commission