Iraq battling more than 200,000 insurgents

by pc Wed Jan 05, 2005 05:07

The level of attacks is now so intense and sophisticated that it is not surprising that the former British representative to the former Coalition Authority, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, said recently that the insurgency was "irremediable" and "ineradicable" by US and other foreign troops alone.

"It depends on the Iraqis. We have lost the primary control," he said.

Recent events indicate that Iraqis have lost the primary control as well.

by ZXBarcalow Wed Jan 05, 2005 16:26

Dont mean to be picking at straws, but if the resistance is so huge, and has so much support (according to other US military reports), then does it really make sense to say that "Iraq" is battling insurgents? Much of Iraq IS the insurgents so if anything, it'd be more like "Iraq is battling the Americans"! (thought thats an oversimplification too)

by kintama Thu Jan 06, 2005 00:53

Iraq is fighting the Americans! Oh dear how did it come to this. Just because you bomb a few wedding parties, torture some ne'er do wells and create free fire zones near your bases the bastards turn on you. Well we will democratise Iraq even if we have to kill them all to do it. They will have Burger King!

by pc Thu Jan 06, 2005 21:58

He's been widely — and literally — misinterpreted. I have a translation of the original Jan. 4 interview in Al-Sharq newspaper and it's clear he's talking about the passive support of the insurgency. Here's what he actually said, as translated by one of my fixers here in Baghdad:

http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000854.php

brief history of estimates of the size of the insurgency

Summer 2003 - There's no insurgency! Just some bandits. Winter 2004 - A few hundred to a couple thousand dead=enders. Summer 2004 - As many as 5,000. Fall 2004 - Up to 20,000. Winter 2005 - About 40,000 dedicated, up to 160,000 kibitzers. Summer 2005 - ? http://www.highclearing.com/archivesuo/week_2005_01_02.html#005778

by redjade Sat Jan 08, 2005 16:11

After Leveling City, U.S. Tries to Build Trust

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-fallouja7jan07,0,4241908,print.story

The goal, officials say, is not to influence how Iraqis vote but to gauge how well residents of politically isolated Fallouja understand the changes that have occurred in their country since Saddam Hussein's regime was toppled.

[....]

In many ways, the "hearts and minds" tactics are straight from the Marine Corps' "Small Wars Manual," written in the late 1930s to preserve information about successful campaigns against insurgents in South America and elsewhere.

In preparation for Iraq, officers were ordered to reread the manual, particularly the section on insurgencies. One rule it discusses is maintaining moral superiority in the minds of the populace by stressing that the fighting was the insurgents' fault. Amid the destruction here, it is not an easy rule to follow.

"It's hard to look these people in the eye after blowing everything up," said Staff Sgt. Travis McKinney, 31, of Vallejo, Calif. "These people were just victims."

by redjade Sun Jan 09, 2005 14:30

The commander of an Army Reserve detachment is begging friends back home to send food for Iraqi police dogs.

"The dogs are starving and urgently need dry dog food," Capt. Gabriella Cook, commander of the Las Vegas-based 313th Military Police Detachment, said in a Dec. 28 e-mail reported Wednesday by the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

"Some of them have already died," Cook wrote. "Half of them are sick. We have no way of buying actual dog food here."

Cook's unit arrived last month in the Iraq capital. She said 12 German shepherds and one black Labrador retriever trained for bomb-detection and attack at the Iraqi Police Academy in Baghdad have been eating table scraps and garbage.

by redjade Tue Jan 11, 2005 19:53

Cop, Gunman Dead
http://modbee.com/local/v-print/story/9750300p-10616529c.html

In the end:

- Ceres police Sgt. Howard Stevenson, 39, was dead.

- Andres Raya, who police say seemed determined to die rather than return to Iraq, was dead.

- Ceres police officer Sam Ryno, 50, was hospitalized with multiple gunshot wounds. He was in critical condition Monday, and is expected to recover.

Monday, detectives from sev-eral law enforcement agencies — from the Ceres police to the FBI — sifted through events leading to Sunday's carnage.

Officers were still struggling to figure out what drove Raya to fire on officers.

"It was premeditated, planned, an ambush," Ceres Police Chief Art de Werk said. "It was a suicide by cop."

by pc Wed Jan 12, 2005 04:00

Robert S. Finnegan writes:

U.S. ARMY SERGEANT DEFIES ORDERS, REFUSES RE-DEPLOYMENT TO IRAQ; TWO SOLDIERS ATTEMPT SUICIDE AT 2-7 INFANTRY, 17 GO AWOL

Benderman Case sparks media feeding-frenzy as Army desperately initiates damage control measures

“Rock of the Marne”

On Friday, January 7, 2005 Sergeant Kevin Benderman, stationed with the 2-7 Infantry Battalion at Ft. Stewart, Georgia, refused an order from the Command Sergeant Major of his unit Samuel Coston to deploy to Iraq and requested a General Courts-Martial.

by Yoshie Furuhashi Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:30

Based on the record of British Malaya, it would take 4 million US troops more than a decade to put down the 200,000-strong guerrilla force in Iraq.
FULL TEXT:
http://montages.blogspot.com/2005/01/how-many-troops-would-it-take-to.html

by Jonah Fri Jan 14, 2005 13:08

It's an interesting article and the figures on Iraqi desertion are especially noteworthy but a comparison with the British occupation of Malaysia is little short of bizarre.

The development of more sophisticated surveillance technology; the availability of far more, and improved, air transport and airbased weaponry and the greater disparity in equipment and weaponry between troops is not taken into account.

by Yoshie Fri Jan 14, 2005 13:25

Both the colonial power and guerrilla insurgents make use of technological progress. Which side is making the most of it in Iraq now?

For all its technological advancement, Washington has yet to figure out how to protect its soldiers from cell-phones-activated Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), which have turned out to be the most devastating weapon in the hands of Iraqi insurgents.

Washington, btw, is a cheap imperialist, so it doesn't even spend money on what it knows is necessary.

http://montages.blogspot.com/2004/12/smart-guerrillas-vs-cheap-imperialists.html

by mise Fri Jan 14, 2005 13:47

Have you ever heard such bollix in all yer life?

by Ali H. Fri Jan 14, 2005 13:57

In the North it took a garrison of 14,000 troops to bring an estimated 400 IRA activists to a stalemate. Note I did not say defeat as the British were only able to contain the IRA. This is a 35:1 ration, leaving out the large number of police and army reservists etc. On this basis a force of 7M troops would be required to contain 200k resistance fighters. It does not matter how sophisticated the surveillance is, again as seen in the North where South Armagh is full of listening posts, covert soldiers, helicopter patrols etc. The US and their Quisling government will loose, only the moment of capitulation will be of their own choosing. It is simply a matter of time before they will leave with their tails between their legs!

by Noel Fri Jan 14, 2005 14:07

The coalition forces will indeed leave Iraq.
There was never any intention of coalition forces staying permanently as an occupying force.

However, there are elections this month.
The Iraqi people will have an opportunity to vote and elect their own representatives.

Once Iraq is a democracy and no longer needs coalition troops to maintain peace, what then?

Will the insurgents stop killing Iraqis?
Will they stop killing police and army recruits?

by redjade Fri Jan 14, 2005 14:59

Pentagon reveals rejected chemical weapons
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524823.800&print=true

The Pentagon considered developing a host of non-lethal chemical weapons that would disrupt discipline and morale among enemy troops, newly declassified documents reveal.

Most bizarre among the plans was one for the development of an "aphrodisiac" chemical weapon that would make enemy soldiers sexually irresistible to each other. Provoking widespread homosexual behaviour among troops would cause a "distasteful but completely non-lethal" blow to morale, the proposal says.

by redjade Fri Jan 14, 2005 15:27

Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.

[....]

"The al-Qa'ida membership that was distinguished by having trained in Afghanistan will gradually dissipate, to be replaced in part by the dispersion of the experienced survivors of the conflict in Iraq," the report says.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7460-2005Jan13?language=printer

by elNo Fri Jan 14, 2005 15:50

didn't ask for "democracy" they whan the US/K out of their country now. As for the resistance killing collaborators this is standard practice and easily avoided by not working for the Americans. Those foolish enough to side with the Americans will get their comeuppance when the Americans retreat under the cover of "free and fair democratic" elections as happened in Vietnam etc.

by Noel Fri Jan 14, 2005 15:58

I suppose the collaborator Margaret Hassan got her come-uppance good and proper.

Or was that a Mossad/CIA/BushChimp Black Op?

by Lone Gunman Fri Jan 14, 2005 19:48

Terrorists in iraq?Dont think so!!otherwise they would be now moving into the 3rd phase of gurellia warfare and becoming more like a normal army.
You might have of the 225K Already a doubtful figure
300 plus commanders and staff personel
500 plus bomb makers and triggermen
2,000 plus soilders and 8,000 recruits and idiots to drive the car bombs.500 mecenaries from various islamic countries.
20,000 sympathisers and other camp followers.Add up to nothing like 225thousand.

Also remember that this is made up of appx 80 various groups of various different ideas and creeds.It is not under any unified command structure.Therefore they will just ferment chaos,and never really amount to much apart from making life difficult for the average Iraqui.notice how the attacks like the PIRA went from attacking British army personel to "soft" targets of police trainees,car bombs in markets etc.

Even if there is 225K in a pouplation of 15million[?] Iraquis that is not even one fifth of the pouplation that is supportive of the terror campain.

A gurellia movement needs over one fifth of a pouplation to support it and for it to thrive.
same reason our freedom fighters never really got very far here.Not enough people supported them to want to overthrow a Govt in Ireland.

by pc Fri Jan 14, 2005 19:54

yeah I posted up that 200,000 insurgents story and then read clarification the next day and corrected myself the next the when the "Back to Iraq" guy countered it...

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68129&type=otherpress

by ZXBarcalow Fri Jan 14, 2005 23:57

200,000 is not the number of Iraqis who SUPPORT the resistance, it is the number of Iraqis who are ACTIVELY working with the resistance. I think some study showed that roughly 40% supported them passively (something like that) -which is about TEN TIMES the number that support the US and the puppet government (Allawi's support level was about 5% as far as i can remember).

And the population of Iraq is not 15 million, its over 22 million.

by ZXBarcalow Sat Jan 15, 2005 00:11

Actually not too sure about the "200,000" figure being active or whatever, but the number of Iraqis who sympathise with the resistance was something like 40%.

by Scoite - Hard Knocks Front Sun Jan 16, 2005 00:51 art_condor at yahoo dot ie

Would it be possible to ban Americans from commenting on this site? I'm sick and tired of them.

BTW: Who gives a shit about the exact number of Iraqi resistance fighters, the Americans are getting hammered, thats all that matters!

by hs Sun Jan 16, 2005 00:55

no, iraq is a democratic paradise where peace, tranquility and prosperity reign.
So what do you think of the army of occupation desecrating one of humanitys most important cultural and historical sites?
Although "towelheads" don't have a history or culture do they, just god given american oil, which they had the bare faced cheek to build a country on top of. Well as long as you can still get your cheap gas...
..it's all worth it.

by Scoite - Hard Knocks Front Sun Jan 16, 2005 01:16 art_condor at yahoo dot ie

I'd like to park my tank on, and contaminate irreparably, Americas cultural heritage, but I'm partial to the occasional hamburger.

by ZBarcalow Sun Jan 16, 2005 03:01

Actually as I said Im not referring to the numbers under discussion here. Im referring to a Zogby poll a good while back that showed 49% of Iraqis consider attacks on the US forces as legitimate resistance.

Also an Associated Press report around the same time showed that one third of Iraqis support the resistance.

Different polls say different things, and opinions change over time. That is why I cannot say for certain what the numbers are now.

But as far as the 200,000 figure goes, well here is what the guy (General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwa) said exactly:

“I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people,” and while he may have been misquoted, as the earlier link showed, what it ALSO indicated is that the 200,000 figure referred to the SUNNI TRIANGLE, not out of all of Iraq. So your claim that its 200,000 out of 22 million is a load of bollocks.

by ping Wed Jul 20, 2005 16:54

25,000 approx victims.
significant % of whom are not killed by suicide bombers.
"200,000" `read the comments' spoken estimate of insurgency "reserves" in january.
200 active foreign Al Q terrorists in the UK according to Blair in April.
0 native british suicide bombers in the UK according to popular sentiment pre 7/7
"14,000 garrison & 400 IRA in Northern Ireland (about the size of Yorkshire) = stalemate"
"around 10,000 British troops in Iraq"
"about the size of france"
"50 years" estimate on length of holy war by extremist egyptian iman made yesterday.
"5,806,000,000€"amount received by iraqi government for resconstruction in forms of loans and subsidies according to its delegate to conference in Jordan yesterday.
"26,543,000,000€" amount promised to iraqi government for resconstruction in forms of loans and subsidies according to its delegate to conference in Jordan yesterday.
"80%" the terms of annual debt cancellation offered the Iraqi government over a 5 year period.
"500%+" the rise in unemployment since the occupation began.
50+ dead of London. 2005 todate
200 approx dead of Madrid. 2004
200 approx dead in Turkey due to terrorism associated with the occupied area the first arrest linked to which made today by the US forces.
50 approx dead in Morocco linked to pre-Iraq globalised terrorism unrelated to Saddam.
150 approx - the number of masacred Saddam is to face trial for.

by interesting Wed Jul 20, 2005 19:45

Shia leaders believe dirty tricks are behind massacres of Sias , not the Sunni population

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1121876862&user=32csm

Al Sadr also blamed Bremer for creating sectarian list systems in the Iraqi parliament to divide the people along religiousl lines deliberately .

Stormont anyone ? Britain and the US up to their necks in that sectarian disaster too ?