Christmas in the Occupied Holy Land

international | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Wednesday December 22, 2004 18:56

by john petrovato

Bethlehem today is little more than a sleepy town. But not the same sleepy town it was 2000 years ago. After 4 years of military incursions, oppression, and violence, the town remains beseiged. Frequently the town is put under “curfew”, meaning that the residents are not allowed to leave their homes. More frequently, roadblocks and checkpoints are placed in and around the town to make travel to and from Bethlehem nearly impossible. Under such conditions, it is not surprising that the town expects very few tourists and visitors during the holidays. Rather than being greeted on the street, we are asked by young children in Bethlehem for help in finding missing relatives, taken by Israeli forces. Refugee camps have sadly become permanent fixtures, with United Nations relief replacing Christmas spirit. Army green seems to be the color of this Christmas season, with coils of barbed wire trimming the roads and alleys.

Christmas in the Occupied Holy Land

John petrovato and Tom Feakins

December 21, 2004

Returning from the “Holy Land” (Occupied Palestinian territories and Israel) during the Christmas season has been a strange and difficult experience. It is not that we are religious, but rather because the gulf between the reality and the ideal of the Christmas in the holy cities of Bethlehem, Jerusalem, and elsewhere in the region is so wide. It has also been difficult to fully engage with the holiday here in North America -- the shopping, meeting with friends and family, the feast, while the people of the holy land, especially Christians and Muslims in the Palestinian Territories, are forced to live under a harsh foreign military occupation. Not only is their suffering largely unacknowledged, but it is they themselves who are routinely considered the guilty parties in the conflict.

Bethlehem today is little more than a sleepy town. But not the same sleepy town it was 2000 years ago. After 4 years of military incursions, oppression, and violence, the town remains beseiged. Frequently the town is put under “curfew”, meaning that the residents are not allowed to leave their homes. More frequently, roadblocks and checkpoints are placed in and around the town to make travel to and from Bethlehem nearly impossible. Under such conditions, it is not surprising that the town expects very few tourists and visitors during the holidays. Rather than being greeted on the street, we are asked by young children in Bethlehem for help in finding missing relatives, taken by Israeli forces. Refugee camps have sadly become permanent fixtures, with United Nations relief replacing Christmas spirit. Army green seems to be the color of this Christmas season, with coils of barbed wire trimming the roads and alleys.

Because of these restrictions, as well as the town’s serious fiscal crisis due to the occupation, Bethlehem has had to cut back on its holiday celebrations and decorations. This is the fourth year in a row that the town has further rolled back its celebration of Christmas. Indeed, the town, like other holy cities under occupation (including the Old City of Jerusalem) seem to be frozen in time. Shops continue to peddle old merchandise that proclaim “Jubilee 2000” or other city names, followed by the year 2000. Similarly, many hotels in the holy land still have Christmas decorations from the year 2000. Four years ago these were hopeful signs, now they are only reminders of what has –or has not- come to pass, and add to the growing cynicism amongst residents.

Of course it was in the autumn of 2000 that the current Intifada broke out. “Intifada” literally means “shaking off” and refers to Palestinian renewed resistance to the occupation. While there was some hope amongst Palestinians that the Oslo peace accords would eventually lead to their own state, such hope deteriorated over the years. Then this second Intifada erupted. Hope dissolved because, as opposed to the Israeli claim that it sought peace with their Palestinian neighbors, the reality on the ground contradicted such a platitude. For instance, if Israel was to withdraw from the Occupied territories, why then had it confiscated Palestinian land and moved some 200,000 Israeli Jewish citizens on to it? Not only did the settler population double (any settlement of occupied territories is illegal under international law), but with the settlement, came hundreds of kilometers of “settler only “ highways, dozens of large military bases, the establishment of checkpoints and roadblocks aimed to “ghettoize” Palestinian communities, and so on. It is not surprising, given the reality under which Palestinians were living, that the words of “peace” were not trusted.

Now four years later, more settlements continue to be built, settlers are encouraged to move into the occupied territories, and Israeli infrastructure continues to expand throughout the West Bank. Almost unbelievably, many people throughout the world and especially America, blame Palestinians for the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine. Through the work of officials who acknowledge spending hundreds of millions of dollars for the purpose of “representing” to the West their version of the conflict, Israelis have succeeded in pulling the wool over the eyes –and conscience- of the world.

The Christmas season is said to be, after all the consumerism and contradictions, a respite for the children. For the children of Bethlehem and other sacred towns in the West Bank there is a frightening routine this year: Israeli military vehicles attempt to enter the area, children throw rocks, bricks and garbage, while absorbing the tear gas, sound-bombs, and sometimes live fire. All of this before nine o’clock in the morning, and right down the street from Rachel’s tomb, Jacob’s well and other revered sites.

In North America, as we come together with friends and family to share in the celebration of Christmas, it is our hope that even a few will understand that while we are enjoying our holiday, for those who live in the Holy Land, and specifically in places like Bethlehem, the harsh and unjust conflict is sustained by our complicity and silence.

Finally, we would like to close with a holiday message from Hanna J. Nasser, the Mayor of Bethlehem:

Christmas is the season of love, joy and peace. It is an occasion for prayer and faith as it reminds us of God’s great gift to mankind, which is the birth of Christ our Saviour in Bethlehem. It was in the sky of Bethlehem that the Angels heralded “ Glory to God in the Highest, Peace on earth and good will towards men”.

As sons of Bethlehem and descendants of the Shepherds who first heard this sacred message, we feel honored and privileged and we keep expecting every Christmas that this Holy occasion would bring with it the winds of change with seeds of peace that are liable to end our hardships and captivity.

Yet the suffering of the town of Nativity endures and new agony for its people springs up. Bethlehem this year is grieved by the passing away of our President Yasser Arafat, the historical leader of the Palestinian people. Our sorrow is so big for this great loss of the father of the nation and a constructor of peace who regretfully has left before his cherished dream of achieving peace in our region is fulfilled.

Each year I try not to be gloomy in my Christmas message but the harsh facts on the ground and the clouds of instability and suffering that continue to overshadow Bethlehem strongly push me to this direction. Living under occupation is certainly the most painful experience man can face and the biggest offend to human rights and dignity.

We each day have to swallow the bitterness of the Israeli practices: killing of our people, demolition of houses, arrest and humiliation. The closure and the oppressive siege have crippled Bethlehem and deteriorated the living conditions of its people to an unprecedented degree. Works have started with the blessing of the Israeli High Court of Justice to annex Rachel’s Tomb area to Israel thus stripping off a very vital and a dear part of Bethlehem from its natural environment.

We live in the horror of the separation wall that has costed Bethlehem considerable part of its lands. It has suffocated our town as it separates it from its sister city Jerusalem and isolates it from the outside world. In consequence, our daily life has been affected including our ability to sustain ourselves. Temptation to emigrate is therefore excessively growing amongst the people of Bethlehem.

However, we shall not allow these ordeals to dispossess us from the values revered in Christmas or to loose hope. Christmas for us is the light in the Middle of darkness. It is time when prayers are needed more than ever to achieve peace in this Holy Land. We feel the newborn in the Manger profoundly present with us giving us strength and hope. Christmas is a new dawn with saving promise for all.

The message of Bethlehem at Christmas is a message of justice, an appeal to all people of good will to do whatever they can to achieve durable peace in our Holy Land, peace that is based on justice, equality and mutual respect. Jesus said: “ Blessed are the peace-makers for they shall be called the Children of God.”

My message is a painful cry out of the captivity and oppression extended to the whole international community to spare no effort for the sake of putting an end to the Israeli occupation to the Palestinian lands that is the source of all troubles and the only obstacle in front of peace.

My message is addressed to all our Christian brethren. To them I say: Do not forget Bethlehem. Rescue it. Give it the care and support at this time of need that matches its religious significance as the cradle of Christianity. Visit the place where your roots are stretched.

“Bethlehem always warmly welcomes you”
I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year

Hanna J. Nasser
Mayor of Bethlehem

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Comments (35 of 35)

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nitpicking on delusion

by TheTroll

Thu Dec 23, 2004 16:31

"Rerturning from the 'Holy land" (occupied Palestinian territories and Israel).....

Um, you might not have noticed, but outside of Zionist occupied Palestinian lands there is NO Israel. Odd how your concern centers on Bethlahem and the assault on your emotions and Christmas fantasies.

"PEACE" ??? You used that word a few times. But you pushed the idea that "Israel" is not also Zionist occupied Palestine. And by doing so, you push the idea that the Zionist's murderous theft and occupation of 5/6 of the Palestinian's homeland IS peace. And that it is the ZIonist occupation of the last 1/6 as being the conflict. How did you put it? "Christimas for us is the light in the Middle of the darkness." Sure it is.

I share your sadness

by Justin Morahan - Peace People (individual)

Fri Dec 24, 2004 14:24

Though I don't share your beliefs (I once did) I appreciate your goodwill feelings and your feelings of sadness on your return from Israel/Palestine/Holy Land. From your Christian point of view I think it is an excellent article that will be welcomed by most of the people whio really support the rights of Palestinians to a free and equal homeland.
Please continue in your efforts to spread the truth of what has been happening in Palestine to those who have not heard. In my opinion you are sincere ambassadors of that truth.
Because of the complexity of the situation, it is not easy to reveal the hidden truth but you have already made a small but worthwhile contribution.
Well done.

pathetic

Fri Dec 24, 2004 16:45

"free and equal homeland"....what does that mean? Free has many manifestations, one of which is who gets to live in thier homeland.

"equal" to whom? ZIonists? Hell, who is in favor of Palestinians having a "birthright" of murderous theft of thier neighbor's homelands???

"complexity" ...how is it complex? Zionists are 4 generations of murderous thieves who's only claim to the land is that Hebrews were ALSO murderous thieves of the land. It is not at all conplex. Murderous thieving ZIonist crusaders and thier chosen offenses against Palestinian peasants. What don't you understand??? Maybe you think that Judeo-christian appeasment of ZIonist offenses complicates the understanding. Well, it doesn't. Zionists are still murderous thieves with NO business being in Palestine, but with YOUR appeasment. Reap what you sow, sinners.

Good Article

by toneore

Tue Dec 28, 2004 23:14

toneore at eircom dot net

Yes, well written and timely. There is, of course, an Israel. People like "The Troll" need to stop engaging in the politics of victimhood. There will of course one day be an independent Palestinian state, co-existing with Israel. Hopefully, with the passing of the old guard Arafat and Sharon, the whole process will move forward and there will be peace.

pathetic rationalization you got there

Thu Dec 30, 2004 19:43

There is that word again, PEACE. And of course, the appeasers of the Zionist Crusader STATE would have you mis-associate the Zionist's bloodsoaked occupation of Palestinian lands with PEACE. Well, was hundreds of years of English occupation confused with peace by the Irish peoples??? Was Nazi occupation of Denmark and Norway confused with PEACE by ANYONE??? Murdrous thieving Zionist invadors just moved in. Murderous thieving ZIonist invadors can move the hell out, like Nazis moved out of Poland, and like thier Hungarian allies moved out of Slovakia.

"There is, of course, an Israel." And had you been paying atttention, you would know that Zionist occupation of the Palestinian's homeland IS the "conflict." Outside of ZIonist occupied palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian lands, there is NO "an Israel." But here you are, presenting the conflict as some sort of justification. Fine, put some meat on the bones of YOUR shriveled up carcas of a supposition.

So, what could "an Israel" be that it's very existance/occupation gives ZIonists thier alleged "birthright" of murderous theft of Palestinian lands??? "An Israel" is a STATE. The Zionist Crusader STATE has a flag, and a currency, and diplomatic recognition of western power broker nations. But having all the trappings of a STATE does NOT equate to ANY "birthright" of MURDEROUS THEFT.

Why do I refer to the ZIonist Crusader State this way??? "an Israel" explains it. Ignorant alleged Christians hear "God will bless those who bless Israel. And curse hose who curse Israel." And they are so ignorant that they think that Zionist calling thier crusade "Israel" means that Jewish ZIonists, the known tribe of judea, and NOT the lost tribes of Israel, are God's chosen people, while the prophets took great care to distingush the 2. It is by thier fruits that you shall know them. Not what they call themselves. Wolves in sheep's clothing have used the ignorance of luke warm Christians to lead many people to support the ZIonist's bloodsoaked war of conquest, even though, by doing so, they treat thier Palestinian neighbors as they WOULDN"T want thier Palestinian neighbors treating them. And I do not choose to add to the fabricate confusion by refering to the ZIonist's crusade as "an Israel", which it is NOT.

Fine, Troll

by Ron

Fri Dec 31, 2004 18:12

Where would u like us to go?
I'm an Israeli of 3rd generation. my great grandparents came from Russia / Ukraina / LItwania or whatever it was just after WW1.
I have no other citizenship other than the Israeli one.
Lets say there is NO ISRAEL. there is a Palestinian State all over. Do u want me to live with u?

If that what makes a Troll happy, let it speak

by jeanne d'arc

Fri Dec 31, 2004 18:20

Let the little Neo-Nazi racist think he is righteous.
So he read some Muslim Arabic Propaganda of the worst kind, and now he thinks he is so smart.

I bet the next wisdom he'll plot will be something like "you attack the messenger instead of the message".

should I concern myself?

Fri Dec 31, 2004 20:20

You can apply for citizenship to Haiti, or Cuba, for all I care.

You can go to the jungles of South America or NASA, like that germanic sect of murderous thieves and be thier grand kids neighbors.

what the Ireland locals already know

Fri Dec 31, 2004 20:36

"attack the messanger" ??? I already have wrote of it in the Ireland IMC Oct. 15 article about Northern Gaza being a new killing field. Check it out. It might help you to avoid repeating suppositions that just lead to exposer of your own prejudices. My posts to that article must have made quite some impresion on you to let it haunt you so much, as you fail to provide anything of actual substance. Over and over again, Zionist lies fall to the truth, as you stand speachless of anything valid. It isn't me who limits the ZIonists and thier enabers of anything of substance. It is them.

atribute it to me

Fri Dec 31, 2004 20:46

"next wizdom"? Pointing out the transparency of the Zionist's offensive lies counts as wizdom??? Pointing out the prejudices you would need to have to be falling for such dung counts as wizdom??? Only to the brainwashed does it count as wizdom.

But is it so amazing??? It isn't my fault that a few years of the internet have destroyed a hundred years of Zionist lies monopolizing the public "understanding." Could it possably be that I am so Wizardly ? Or could it be the Zionist's lies being so offensive and pathetic?

Mr. Troll

by sand

Do us all favor,
Get out,
Find a tree,
And hang urself on one.

Or just shut up and don't puke your racist rubbish in a leftist site.

be specific

Sat Jan 01, 2005 16:13

If ANYTHING I wrote was either racist or rubbish, you would have pointed out how. You or someone would have by now. But noone ever has. Here is an idea, take everything I write, and give it to the millions of murderous thieving Zionists to evaluate. The ZIonist's collective efforts created "an Israel", surely a collective effort could trash at least 1 of my rants. Hell, I'll make you a deal. Trash at least 1 thing I wrote, not counting crappy spelling and my bait mistakes, and I will never even return to ANY IMC, much less make a comment. What is the problem? Do you need a savior? These are your suppositions that I trash.

But it is clear that you hate what I wrote. And that you hate me for writing it. But I did not make the ZIonists 4 generations of murderous thieves who have never stopped stealing Palestinian lands and have never hesitated for a second to MURDER the Palestinians who resist the Zionist's offenses, or are just in the wrong place, as defined by the ZIonist crusaders. I just witness against the Zionist's crimes, Leviticus 5:1. I also witness against the prejudices of Zionist enablers.

Accustomed as I am...

by avi15

Fri Jan 07, 2005 01:15

When Mr Troll says Zionists, that's his code word for Jews.

TheTroll

by can you explain why you say that

Fri Jan 07, 2005 01:25

Sorry, but I always distiguish between Zionists and Jews who are not murderous thieves.

Well,

by Avi15

Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:45

he would say that, wouldn't he? What else can he say? Yes, I'm an anti-Semite?

what we expect of enablers

Fri Jan 07, 2005 16:04

What else could Avi15 say??? Yes, ZIonists are 4 generations of murderous thieves who have never stopped steal palestinian lands and have never hesitated to MURDER the Palestinians who resist the ZIonist's offneses, or are just in the wrong place.

Avi15 could say that, because it is true. But he will not say that. How about a test? How about RUDE??? Can you even admit that Zionism is RUDE??? I wager not. I bet he keeps scapegoating me for Zionists being so vile and offensive.

Steal palestinian lands

by The Droll

Fri Jan 07, 2005 17:21

"steal palestinian lands"

1948---Trans jordan steals palestinian lands and OCCUPIES territory slated to become an Arab state. Egypt, not wanting to be left out, steals palestinian lands in the Gaza. The Arab nations not only stole "pali" land,but they annexed the same and built illegal settlements.
The creation of "palestinians" didn't occur until 14 Arab armies lost the 1967 war of anihilation against the Jews...the Six Day War.
In a related story:
Jordan massacres 20,000 palestinians in what became know as "Black September"

sure, Troll, you are a scapegoat

by eastern eye

Fri Jan 07, 2005 19:18

The dark council of the Evil Zionist (who, by an accident are all Jews) had thought very hard and decided to choose you as THE Scapegoat. We now think what to do with you.

Ofcource Zionism is Rude.
rule no. 1 at the Zionist Agenda is
"Thee shall not eat with fork and knife.EVER!"
rule no. 2 is
"Thee shall eat only with an open mouth".
rule no. 5 is
"Thee shall fart in public. aspecially when gentiles are at your surroundings".
rule no. 7 is
"thee shall tell chauvinist jokes at the presence of women".
_____________

Zionism is the Jewish national movement. it isn't better or worse than any other national movement.
One can criticize Israel or the Israeli policy.
What YOU do, is to call Israeli Jews murderous thieves just because they are alive. You demand Israel to stop its existance
or in other words, to make a mass suicide. This is the only way we could be moral, to you.
You wouldn't demand it from any other state involved in a conflict for land. You wouldn't demand England to stop its existance because of North Ireland, nor Russia because of Chechnia, nor Spain because of the Basques.
You wouldn't tell any of them to "apply for citizenship to Haiti, or Cuba". would you?

But You do want it from Israel (any other way to stop the "murderous theft" as you call it?)

This is why you are racist, dear Troll.
Got your explanation?

Droll, it was 6 armies. no 14

Fri Jan 07, 2005 19:21

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, with whom Israel has no border, but though it would be a wise and novle did to send an army.

And, what about RUDE

Sat Jan 08, 2005 01:33

Yes, The Heshemites that England put in charge of Jordan DID occupy eastern Palestinian lands. AND??? Did you have an actual point to make??? Soviets occupied eastern Poland. That doesn't mean that nazis were not also murderous thieves of Polish lands. How is it that anyone could think that Jordan occupying eastern palestinian lands means that ZIonists are not murderous thieves of the rest? Only the most pre-judge-mental could fall for such dung.

Palestinians didn't exist until 67 war to drive the Zionist crusaders out of Palestinian lands. Just popped right out of thin air, did they? No, Palestinians didn't start calling themselves palestinians until 67. There happens to be a world of differance that only the most prejudiced idiots would miss/ignore.

And Jordan did kill many Palestinians. Soviets wiped out the Pole's officer corps and many Polish political leaders. That doesn't mean that Nazis were not ALSO murderous thieves of Polish lands. Just as Jordanians killing Palestinians doesn't mean Zionists are not ALSO murderous thieves. Your rationaliazations sure are void of any actual substance. Yoru rationalizations just showcase your own prejudices. Keep up the shoddy work. You make exposing your scapegoating so easy.

Zionist nationalism IS worse than MANY nationalisms because it includes the murderous theft of Palestinian lands. many other nationalism, like the Palestinian's nationalism, is to drive out foriegn invadors. Polish nationalism included driving out Nazis. It is easy to see how some nationalisms are defensive in nature, while some are offensive. And offensive is worse than defenesive.

I call murderous thieving Zionists "murderous thieves" because that is what they are, even if Judeo-christian power broker nations appease the Zionist's murderous theft of Palestinian lands. Judeo-christian power broker nations also appeased and supported Judeo-christian crusader states. That doesn't mean the judeo-christian crusader states had any "birthright" of murderous theft. And appeasment of ZIonist's crimes doesn;t change a damned thing either. It is the ZIonist's alleged "birthright" of murderous theft of Palestinian lands that I witness against.

Wrong again. 400000 ZIonists have bugged out in the latest intifada. They left. And they didn't commit suicide, as the brainwashed idiots believe. Kind of blows your supposition right out of the water, doesn't it??? Zionists wouldn't have to comit suicide to be moral, just end thier bloodsoaked crusade, get the hell out of ALL of the Palestinian's homeland, and NEVER torment the Palestinian people again. SEE, no suicide is required. But to buy into your supposition, prejudice is required.

And NO, I didn't get it. Can you be more specific. How am I racist??? Free Chechnia. Free Tibet. Britts can bugger off and let Northern Ireland rule itself.

6 armies tried and failed to liberate Palestinian lands from Zionist invadors. AND??? England and France tried and failed to liberate Poland. Does that mean england and France started world war II, like ZIonist enablers suggest Arabic speeking people trying and failing to liberate palestinian lands fro Zionist invadors means Arabs started the conflict. Your supposition is pathetic and offensive.

Dark Council. I said "he", and you turn it into a conspiracy theory in an attempt/failed attempt to discredit me when I say Avi15 scapegoats me.

"what to do with me"? Well, you seem to think you have a right to say who gets to live (literaly) in the Palestinian's homeland. I shouldn't be supprised at your veiled threat. Yep, some people see blood on thier hands as the answer to all thier problems, Zionists being among them, as thier murderous theft of Palestinian lands shows well enough.

what else you got?

Sat Jan 08, 2005 21:27

Well, what about it??? What about RUDE??? Noone can even admit that much??? That Zionism is even RUDE??? Noone???

So far, Eastern Eye came the closest with his fart joke. But Eastern Eye being willing to speek of the least of Zionist offenses, does so only as a distraction to run away from the real world issues. And he didn't even run away quitetly. He ran away like a scalded dog sqeeling out more pathetic and offensive rationalizations and lies.

what is this rubbish

by pc

Sat Jan 08, 2005 21:46

clampers are rude! are all clampers zionists?

talk about rubbish

Sun Jan 09, 2005 06:34

Was that a distraction???

Not knowing what a clamper is, I don't know if they are Zionists. But if they are Zionists, is thier murderous theft of Palestinian lands (AKA-Zionism) even RUDE? Come on, you can stay on subject for 2 seconds, can't you???

Run away squeeling.

Not all Zionists

by Ali H.

Mon Jan 10, 2005 16:08

are Jews as we are well aware in this country where we have Unionists who are not Protestants. Religion does not equal politics, except among those who seek to stifle the right to free speech and political expression.

The Devil and George Warmonger Bush

by The Devil and George Warmonger Bush - The Black House Bullies

Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:18

666 The Tenth Level of Hell Suite 666

666-666-Hell Ext. 666

His Unholiness George Warmonger Bush to the Palestinians: "Ho Ho Ho! Merry Bushmas! It's Bushiness as usual for me and my Buddy Ariel. And sorry to Oil the Hollidays but Oil comes first."

Religion does not equal politics

Tue Jan 11, 2005 15:06

In the case of Jews, However, religion and nationality are mixed together.
Therefor, though there are Jews who are not Zionists, I can hardly think about gentile Zionists. There are gentiles who support it, though.

How the hell is it connected to the write of free speech? In Israel there is a free speech policy. Far more than its surroundings.

it is all in thier

Tue Jan 11, 2005 22:41

According to the covenant that makes people Jews, those who got kicked out of the land were ORDERED to assimilate with those people into who's lands they moved.

The lost tribes of Israel are NOT Jews. "Jews" refers to the know tribe of Judea. The lost tribes are described in the prophets words. It is they, who kept the covenant, and have God's permission to return. Since "Jews" kept thier religion and thier national identity, they in fact, rejected thier covenant, and could not be confused with the lost tribes with sleep in thier eyes and who know NOT of thier past. the lost tribes with God's permisssion and calling to return could not possibly be Jews unless they converted to Judeism some time after they dumped it, since dumping it was ordered by the covenant. Again, Judeism is a poor choice of words, since it only describes 1 tribe.

Zionists are also descibed by the prophets. They are foretold destroying the lost tribes that returned before Zionist invaded, Ezekiel 38. In Deuteronomy chapter 28, there are 2 paths open to the hebrew invadors. salvation and damnation. The promise was to Abraham, NOT to all of Abraham's descendants. Jeramiah also talks of the Zionist invadors of Israel. The real Israel. Not the ZIonist crusader State.

have you become a biblical expert, mr. troll?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:13

Of course the Jews ain't the lost tribes. thats why the lost tribes are LOST. we are found.
ain't you content with what you have?
Jews are one tribe (infact two: Levi's as well) out of the 12 tribes of Israel. they disappered 2,500 years ago. There are many Indians and South-American natives that claim they belong to the 12 tribes.

"those who got kicked out of the land were ORDERED to assimilate with those people into who's lands they moved".
Where the hell did you take that from?
How did they kept the convenant, if they were ordered to assimilate?

What you say, is that by God, Jews don't deserve to get back to Israel, because they stayed Jews.

Well, troll.
What's interesting with you, is that you keep passing from modern anti-Jewish terms, such as Nazi terms, to Islamic anti-Jewish terms, and now you've broke a record: Medieval Christian Catholic anti-Jewish terms!
Wow! you are a genius!

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you so, but
1.there is the state of Israel, at which live 1/3 of the jews of the world (at '95 it was 5 milions. another 5 milions live at U.S, and all the rest - at all the rest). The Jews CAME back to Israel. after almost 2,000 years. It's something that doesn't have a match in history, and if we came to religeus terms - I think wouldn't happern without God's will.
Or did God came to you at night and said He's not satisfied?
2. Thanks to the state of Israel, I have to meet the likes of you just in the net, not in everyday's life. and that's a relief.
3. I wanted to tell you long ago, and maybe its not my place, since english isn't my mother tonge, but "their" is written as i wrote, not "thier".

This is it. I can argue with reasonable people that disagree with me, and there are lots in this site. Not with brainwashed Jews haters, that have something like 6 words in their lexicon.
And I feel piety for your brother in law.

Gentile Zionists

Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:53

Educate yourself before claiming that all Zionists are Jews or vice-versa:

Dr. Chaim Weizmann, a Russian-born Jew, made thirty thousand tons of acetone to support the British war effort in WWI.

As Minister of Munitions, Lloyd George offered Weizmann a suitable honour in appreciation of his work. But he replied that he wanted nothing for himself, only British support for Jewish aspirations in Palestine.

At that time the British War Cabinet was made up of a number of pro-Zionist members including Lord Arthur James Balfour author of the "Balfour Declaration." In part, it reads:

His Majesty's (George V) Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

Balfour became a dedicated Zionist.

http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/judeochr/rolegent.html

Gentile Zionists: Study in Anglo-Zionist Diplomacy 1929-1939
by Norman Rose, N.A. Rose

Fine, Ali H

Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:45

I did write there are gentiles who support it.

Is that your way of saying

Wed Jan 12, 2005 15:25

that there is actually such a thing as a non-Jewish Zionist?

WOW, you realy stunk up that one

Wed Jan 12, 2005 22:54

It is perfectly fine with me if you choose to reject the book. I made my points without religion so many times. Like I am here.

What I say, is that "Noone can be allowed to profit from murder." Sound like something you have heard before??? That is what many people stated, quite correctly, about Nazi gold. About Jews being Jews so they are not welcome in God's land, NO! Idiot, that was just one of many identifiers that distinguishes WHOM God said would return with his blessings. It is not my place to say if it was God's reason.

Genius? Hey, if other people use the same jargon I employ, then that is thier business. I couldn't care less about what anti-Jewish people say, or Nazis, or what medieval Christian catholics said. But it is interesting how you try to suggest that similarities would somehow mean a damned thing? Hey, I could talk about how the banks in the west have pidgion holed westerners to support the Zionist's bloodsoaked crusade by loaning ZIonists thier depositors life's savings. Now, if Palestine gets liberated, all those banks go broke. NOW, some people have suggested that because I write about banking, and because some hundred year old racist propaganda callled something like, the protocalls of the elders of Zion, also speeks of Jews controling banking, that I am parroting out a hundred year old propaganda and should be reguarded as being nothing BUT 1 hundred year old racist propaganda, EVEN THOUGH, I was only talking about what IS. That tactic you just used is more dung. Don't you, or any other ZIonist enablers have anything but dung???

ZIonists came back to "Israel"??? No. Zionists reconquered the land that murderous thieving Hebrew invadors conquered. The lost tribes returned in peace before the ZIonists, who, AS IT IS WRITEN, also "returned" to lands that were never thier's. jeremiah, after ZIonists surrounded Jerusalem, they would never again win another war. And they haven't so far since 67. Have they? Yom Kippor War they were being stomped so badly that old Adolf Nixon had to send them 27000 tons of state of the art (for the time) weapons of death and destrruction, Zionists bitch and moan about outsiders sedning Palestinians 50 tons to liberate thier homeland from murderous thieves. ZIonists invaded Lebanon, lost. ZIonists even lost the first gulf war when they couldn't shoot back.

2. Thanks to Zionists being murderous thieves with Palestinian/Israel blood on thier hands, you don't have to deal with people who say you have no "birthright" of murderous theft. And that is a relief??? thanks. You really showed your prejudices on that one. And to tell the truth, I DON"T want murderous thieves emigrating to the US. Which is one of the reasons why I suggested you apply for citizenship to Haiti or Cuba. There is another reason, but you haven't taken that bait yet.

3What? are you sure??? Wow, maybe I should rethink my whole rant. What do you think??? Oops, I mean, what do you FEEL? HA HA HA.

Can you tell us what "reasonalbe people" includes OTHER THAN Jew haters? Fine with me. Run away from your own rationalizations.

And many Palestinian JEWS protested AGAINST the ZIONIST'S invasion long before the Zionist's invasion had it's first bloody climax in 48. OHHH, they sound like they are "JEW HATERS" because they TOO witnessed AGAINST the Zionist's offensive plans.

troll dear

Wed Jan 12, 2005 23:08

am I to understand that you are an american?

There are ZIonists and thier enablers

Wed Jan 12, 2005 23:20

Britts were aided by ZIonists in world war 1 who were then aided by Britts in the murderous theft of the Palestinian's/Israel homeland. Yep, and the Nazi's aided thier Hungarian allie's invasion of Slovakia by giving it to them under Nazi guns and the Hungarians aided nazis in thier invasion of Russia.

Yep, outside parties making plans to share in the offenses they employ has a LONG history. The Whore of Babylon complex that many national leaders employ. It is usualy employed these days by a powerfull state, such as nazi Germany making deals with hungarians, or britts making deals with a crusader sect.

But Hungarians joining up with Nazi offenses doesn't mean the Nazi's Hungarian allies were nazis. They had thier own Nazi style party running things. I forget what it was called.

Your post made me think of another rationalization Zionists employ to get thier US enabler's support. "An Israel" votes with the US at the United Nations." Yep, and as soon as I pointed out how Zionists voting with the US DOESN"T give ZIonists ANY "birthright" of murderous theft of ANYBODIY'S homeland, they stopped using that one everywhere but on the allegedly Christian TV networks. They ran away from secular society on that rant because it just showcases prejudices. prejudices of the ZIonists for saying it, and the prejudices of Americans who buy into suck prejudiced DUNG.

ZIonists in many neutral nations activly supported the Brittish war effort in world war 1. SOme Germans figured that if ZIonists were going to act like a nation, then they could be targeted AS a nation. And a short time later, they were, in the many neutral nations.

Yes

Fri Jan 14, 2005 00:55

I am more American than you probably think, oops, I mean feel. But go ahead, rant all you want to about how it is wrong for me to point out how democraps and republitrash betray the US and it's constitution.

Watch out for bait.

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