Our Education System

by Julia Tue Nov 09, 2004 22:35 Clonakilty

Did you stay or leave after they gave you the ultimatum?
I wonder what would have happened if you brought the argument into the class room with or without the youngster with you. The action by the school seemed a little over the top.
I hope those good teachers sleep soundly tonight, safe in the knowledge that they saved their pupils from a dangerous encounter with a bad influence.

by Al Tue Nov 09, 2004 23:42

Firstly may I ask what the organisation is called? Secondly, what was the outcome? Did you stay or leave with the young lad? Thirdly, why had the school failed him? I realise that some teachers are dickheads but so are some students. I have a friend whos a teacher, he likes his job and is very laid back with the pupils which according to him seems to work however he doesnt teach over 12 or 13. If it was over Irish then I agree, I fail to see the importance of Irish as an academic subject. While it is important to our culture it has no importance acedemically. I had to retake it to get into the guards and you dont even need it for that now.

by toneore Wed Nov 10, 2004 01:08 toneore at eircom dot net

If the school failed him, why bring him back? It sounds like you are as much a troublemaker as he is.

If I was a school manager and I was asked to provide a platform for some little thug, I wouldn't either. If you take yourself outside the system why should the rest of us have to either subsidize your life choices or even listen to you?

The Irish school system is one to be proud of. However, you clearly are acting in a disengenuous manner and don't have the interest of childen's education at heart, but your own political agenda. Kids, ignore this "adult" now!

by john Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:22

In reply to toneore and others,

This young lad was no bad kid or thug. The incident which caused trouble related to him not being able to learn Irish and arguing with the teacher about its relevance. Secondly in relation to an education system to be proud of answer me this

1) Have you seen the recent report on literacy levels in schools? It makes sad reading bye the way the 1997 OECD Literacy Report on Ireland indicated that 25% of the entire adult population have functional literacy difficulties.

2) Why are kids leaving schools not being able to read and write

3) I agree that some kids can be hard to handle but I too work in the education system and this guy was no thug. I agree most teachers are hardworking and have students interests at heart but others do not.

4) I have no political agend except to say that I look forward to the day when my work is not around dealing with kids you have fallen through the cracks in the education system. Have you heard of Youthreach and simila programmes? Are these for bad kids who are thugs or for kids who have been failed by the education system. Ask teachers and they we will agree that they are pressurised into focusing on academic achievment and points where does that leave kids with learning difficulties. Another example non national kids are supposed by law to receive a minimum number of hours of english, check it out they dont get these hours or else they get the hours and miss other classes and then fall even further behind.

5) Why do we now have in the system SNA and other resource teachers because finally there is a recognition that extra help is needed for kids.

I work in education toneroe and have strong feelings as to the organisation I was involved with I dont want to identify them here and we both left the school because I didnt want to put the young lad through that and then see me siding with the school.

by RED BHOY Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:25

The Irish education system is one to be proud of?? In comparison with which countries?? I think you're comments prove that whatever school system you were part of didnt work ,as you come across as an ignorant clown!
Who cares if this lad was disruptive in school? (I used to argue against Irish myself but have mended the error of my ways since)Its up to the teachers to discipline him or omit him from the institution to enable others to learn properly at the time of the incident. If this kid (although I dont think he is a kid as hes a past pupil) has mended his ways and wants to try stop others from making the same mistakes as he did , then so be it! The chap should be commended for his efforts.
I know that a lot of counsellors who work with junkies are ex-addicts themselves! Should we tell those people to stay away from the junkies instead of trying to help!
Sometimes the ignorance of comments on this site astounds me!!!

by peter Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:26

Do you really think schools should have to let any "volunteer groups" into schools to talk to the pupils? For fecks sake.

If they want you, fair enough. If they don'r, then piss off.

by John Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:28

Peter,
We were invited by the school because of the work we do with kids thats the irony, I dont go around demanding entry sorry if I diodnt make that point clear but we are invtied regulalry to work with kids in schools and outside and we visit this particular school twice per year at their invitation

by Al Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:12

check it out they dont get these hours or else they get the hours and miss other classes and then fall even further behind.

So how else do you propose these hours are given? The school week is structured, for a class ro be fitted in it has to be in place of a subject, thats common sense.

As for our education system, dont blame that because parents dont send their children to school. Parents raise children not schools. My daughter had basic spelling and maths before she entered a school. If at this stage she couldnt read or write then I would notice, how can a parent say that there child spent 14 years in school and never noticed the child couldnt spell? HOw can anyone make that claim?
Our system has many flaws but it is one of the better systems in the world, if you want proof look at the amount of foreign nationals that come here to study, look at the employment rate of Irish graduates in other countries.

by John Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:34

Im not getting into a slagging match about this but answer me the following

1) Yes I agree that paretns should notice but if you work in this area you will find that very often parents dont have litecay skills either. Its not allways fair to balme parents either.

2) I still think answers are needed if a kid can go through 14 years of school and not be able to read or write and the figures are out there. There are 1/4 million kids in classes with a ration of 30 to one when the recommended amount is 17.5 to one. Over 100,000 are in classes of 40 to one ratio. This recent report has highlight these difficulties.

3) As regards non national, these kids are supposed to get 3-4 hours english per week, they are exempt irish but many still do not get their english classes mainly because there are insufficent resources. The english classes would be given when irish classes are scheduled.

4) As regards the third level situation, its a bit of a misnomer because you are dealing with peopole who have made the grade. You dont get people with literacy difficulties doing degress ! Thirs level education is great in this country and non nationals coming to study here and employment rates testify to this. However I must apologise if I didnt make clear I am talking about primary and secondary level education.

5) Also if our system is so great why do we still have rat infested over crowded schools, classes where often in primary fifth and sixth etc are taught together. We have a lot of good initiatives like Home School Liasion and Visiting Teachers for Travellers but they will tell you they need more resources and indeed more support from mainstream teachers. Working in the education system I know that the cause is keeping kids in mainstream school its the law until they are 16. However the govt set up the National EducatioN Welfare Boards to implement the law but these boards are not well resourced.

I hat to say it but schools and education in leafy middle class suburbs are excellent but go to inner city areas, rural areas, areas with traveller populations and non nationals and its a different story. I had a traveller parent tell me recently that her nine year old daughter was given painting to do while the rest of the class learned their spellings. why?

There is a lot good about our system but also a lot of problems. Autistic children, children with disabilities and learning difficulties are rarely accomodated in mainstream schools, these learning difficulties include behaviural difficulties which have previously been seen as boldness or thuggery however, these diffulties are now recognised as ADHD etc and extra support is needed for these kids. Please people know your facts before replying emotionally, I agreee as I have said there is a lot of good but a lot of problems also.

by name with eds. Thu Apr 07, 2005 00:02 tasher at eircom dot net

I have tried endlessly to get an appointment for my son he is 6. He is a danger to himself he runs out on the road without looking.He never sleeps and he hardly eats the teacher in his school is having terrible problems with he wont sit down for her he runs around the classroom when the teacher asks him to sit down he tells her where to go he takes off his shoes in the classroom and refuses to do any work i am at the stage where i dont know what to do anymore i am fighting a one sided battle every day i even hate the thoughts of getting up every morning because i know what i have to face please help me

by caroline williams Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:56 carolinewilliams50 at yahoo dot com 6 mungret court 0858388395

I have a child with adhd and it is very hard to keep him under control in school. I do not agree with all the bad comments that were put to the lady with the troubled child . It is not her fault that the school cannot control her son if it is that bad in school just picture what it is like at home for her.