Cork soicalists prove themselves fools

by puntcutate Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:00

,.!""''

by puzzled Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:14

Like am I missing something, for surely there has been no revolution / rebellion in cork for several hundred years.

by langer Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:22

the use of the phrase 'rebel' county dates back to the rebelions in Cork during the 15th century. The phrase has stuck and was given new meaning during the pro-active stance the county took in the War of Independence - which was hundreds of years ago -

by Corkhead Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:34

I reckon the SWP in Cork (they hardly exist in the city) were just looking to get themselves in de paper by calling for the banning of the confederate flag for Cork Gaa matches. People aren't stupid - they're not waving the Japanese flag because they love Japan, but because it's a red flag. I've seen plenty of hammer and sickle flags - and ones with Che Guevara - at matches but nobody is dumb enough to think this indicates a massive communist movement in Cark.

Is this all the SWP has going for itself in Cork???

by tony cliff Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:55

You know I am against that sort of thing.

by Lord Cardigan Tue Aug 10, 2004 18:36

Cork is known as the rebel county because of a mutiny there by the British army in the 18th century. Please note: that which is represented by the confederate flag lost. Lets hope that the flying of this loser's flag by foolish Corkonians is not predictive of the coming Wexford/Cork clash.

by baron headscarf Tue Aug 10, 2004 21:00

sin é. so its not really countable as a GAA rebellion is it?

by dube Tue Aug 10, 2004 21:16

whos socialism?, our socialism!

by Fergal Tue Aug 10, 2004 21:55

Jesus. Puzzled wonders why Cork think they're the rebel county. He's clearly as out of touch as the SWP. Counties have nicknames: Clare are the Banner and Kildare are the Lilywhites, for eg. Cork are the Rebels.

Anyone who's ever attended a Cork match will know that Cork fans have long been creative in their use of flags. I recall a giant Coca-Cola flag being flown at one Munstwer final I attended (that was probably objected to too of course). The fact that this whole piece of silly season fluff even emerged is an indictment of the SWP, whose brand of socialism clearly doesn't involve knowing what "the people" are actually like. I imagine the poor SWP boys were surprised when every sensible Cork person laughed the idea off and proceeded to ignore them.

In the 80's, tories in the UK used to make up scare stories about left-wing councils banning "Baa-baa blacksheep" from schools. This story only goes to show that there's nothing you can make up that can't be topped by these morons.

by Noel O'Flynns arse - Ogra Fianna Reich Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:24

The "Rebel County" title was earned by the pro-British Corkonians of old because they sided with the British against the "Norman" revolt against British rule and taxes. It proves the stipidity of Corkonians of all political hues that they still embrace this "title" with such pride.

Waving the racist "Southern" flag of American racists at GAA matches further proves their soft brained ignorance , as does waving the "Rising sun" flag of the murderous Japanese Empire. So one should not be surprised they also like to wave the red white and blue "Stars 'n bars" of the USA.

Who cares if these fools want to make even bigger idiots of themselves before the Nation and world. We laugh at their ignorance, arrogance and pride.

By the way, Belfast is the "Second City" of Ireland although when it comes to racism Cork is indeed, " da real capital". Who else would name a tunnel after a collaborator with British Intelligence or a food market (The English Market) after murdering Imperials Bastards?

by unrepentant fenian bastard. Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:41

What a sad bastard, can stereotype a whole county. Very sad!

by Yellabelly Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:09

There was a report in the mainstream press that Cork GAA fans were flying the red and white flag of the South African far right party a few years ago.
Also if we're dealing in the historical reasons why Cork are known as the rebel county lets not forget the vital role 'the rebels' of the North Cork Milita had in helping crush the Rebellion in 1798.

by jm - cork leftie type Wed Aug 11, 2004 13:06

Jaysus lads but this is pretty pathetic - you wouldn't believe the grief I'm getting down here as a leftie about it, a lot of people are really pissed off. Its about the equivalent of issuing a press release saying Cork GAA fans are racist scum. Aside from a desperate attempt to garner some publicity (the SWP are moribund in Cork) I can't imagine what the hell they were playing at.
I mean, if you want to make a point about the political connotations of the confederate flag go ahead and do - a press release appealing to fans not to use it, leafleting Pairc ui Chaoimh on match day (though logistically I think that might require more of a broad left group!) etc. might have some impact on some people. But it seems to me that what has happened is that the SWP has appealed to the GAA, over the heads of the matchgoing fans - as if the GAA was a bastion of social inclusion and liberalism and the fans were brain dead bigots.
The onlt positive thing for the SWP is that, seeing as how they are invisible in Cork, most people think it was the Socialist Party! I wonder what THEY will do about that?!?

by jm - cork leftie type Wed Aug 11, 2004 13:12

By de way langer, you reckon socialists will never have attended GAA games? I'm a socialist and have attended plenty of GAA over the years - my enthusiasm even stretched to being a crap football fullback up to the age of 14, when I discovered the joy of cigarettes.
So i know its nice and comforting to resort to stereotypes when trying to back up a point, but its often better to let the point stand by itself - its less likely to appear tainted by bile.

by apolitical Wed Aug 11, 2004 13:35

As a Man Utd. fan, I always bring a nice red, white and black swastika flag with me to a game, even though members of the evil politically correct thought police frequently make the absolutely outrageous and absurd suggestion that this could be interpreted as an expression of support for Fascism.
Ridiculous, isn't it?

by Behemoth Wed Aug 11, 2004 13:42

The Swastika is very clearly recognised with the Nazis and this is very well known. The associations of the confederate flag with disreputable folk is not so widely known.

Also, GAA fans generally don't care about their flags - only the colour, which is not the same in soccer.

by Archivist Wed Aug 11, 2004 16:48

Can anyone actually direct me to the article or text of the press release? I don't doubt the truth of what 'langer' wrote, but would just like to have it.

Back in the 1990s the SWP in Britain worked themselves up into a knicker fit about the film 'Romper Stomper', claiming it was pro-Nazi, etc. They even got it pulled from some cinemas, undoing the good work of anti-fascists who had arranged for it to be shown accompanied by an anti-fascist exhibition and presentation. Anyone who has seen the film knows that is not pro-fascist, in fact it shows them to be a boneheaded cowardly crock of shite. If you want to see it the DVD costs a mere 7e in Tower Records. Undoubtedly the SWP will accuse me of being the reincarnation of Himmler...

by Fergal Wed Aug 11, 2004 17:30

The SWP are probably already picketing Tower Records, calling for a ban on the sale of Billy Idol's 1980's hit album, "Rebel Yell". Then on to RTE to call for a ban on re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard on Saturday mornings, topped off with a trip to the pub, to protest the sale of Southern Comfort. And a trip to KFC on the way home, obviously.

by jm Wed Aug 11, 2004 17:31

Hey archivist, this is a link to a story on the examiner website:

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/05/story160301.html

Its a shame to see Joe Moore, a guy who has done a lot of good stuff, associating himself with this tomfoolery.

by Archivist Wed Aug 11, 2004 18:44

I think the only response is 'Jaysus wept!'.

But the SWP will pis themselves with excitement over getting in the paper. And Cork GAA fans will associate 'socialism' and 'anti-racism' with this idiocy.

by Silly Season Thu Aug 12, 2004 18:17

If the SWP were serious about tackling racism in Cork, the use of the Confederate flag by GAA fans would not be high on their list of priorities. The Confederate flag is not used for racist reasons and it has no real cultural associations in Ireland beyond the Dukes of Hazzard. However it is ultimately a racist symbol and thinking that it is inappropriate is fair enough.

More to the point, if the SWP were serious about getting the Confederate flag out of Cork GAA matches this isn't the way they should go about it. Sticking out a press release demanding that the GAA ban the flag is a way of getting your name in the paper not a way of changing anything.

If this was really their priority they would be down at the GAA matches, leafletting fans and explaining that while they support their County side the Confederate flag has negative implications. Persuading Cork fans in other words, not just pissing them off.

by pat c Thu Aug 12, 2004 18:24

Very well put. The Confederate flag is offensive but the way to get rid of it is through lobbying & education. Get someone in the GAA to raise it.

by G Murphy Thu Aug 12, 2004 20:57

What real harm is it doing to the GAA. I mean lighten up, if cork want to be known as the rebel county, fair enough

by underground railroad - smash their brains in Fri Aug 13, 2004 19:28

Didnt he go to jail in Cork over the bintax. Joe's a militant trade unionist with the CWU and I think re raises important questions about the flag and its tolerance for slavery and racism. This was a massive issue in the Southern States a couple of years ago and thousands marched. What would indykids think if Cork fans were flying the swastika- a bit of harmless fun? Fuck ye.

Here's comments from Cork 96fm website


The Socialist Worker`s Party (SWP) claim the flag is racist and insults people from ethnic backgrounds but the Cork County Board insist fans are unaware of its connotations.

A vast red and white sea of flags proudly flutters in the breeze at the Rebel County`s All-Ireland Championship matches, but the SWP is determined to have one of them banned.

Joe Moore, SWP Cork spokesman, said: "We know the county colours are red and white but it`s unfortunate one of the flags being flown is the Confederate flag from America.

"It represents the promotion of racism and slavery but Ireland is a multi-cultural society and such symbols should not be on display.

"Cork is the Rebel County but the name comes from the fight for national independence. The rebel flag comes from a totally different context where people in the US were protecting slavery."

He believes the Cork board should take on the responsibility of educating fans about its history and then call for a voluntary ban before taking further action.

But the board and supporters have laughed off the calls, claiming supporters have simply chosen the flag for its colours.

Mick Dolan, the board`s vice-chairman, said the idea of banning a certain flag and checking them before games was completely impractical.

"It`s ridiculous, the flag`s just red and white," he said. "Our fans also wave the Japanese rising sun flag, the Canadian flag, the Ferrari flag, but they mean nothing except for the colours.

"I don`t think the people waving the Confederate flag even know what it stands for and it would certainly not be my place to tell them what flags to use."

Donncha O`Leary, the owner of Cashman`s pub in Cork city, a popular supporter`s bar, said he was disgusted that GAA fans were being linked to Confederate America and said the SWP should be concentrating on more important issues.

"It`s just about the county colours, the SWP is picking on one flag and don`t have a clue," he said.

"The local market sells flags from around the world and supporters pick this up but have no idea where it`s from.

"There are more important things to worry about, this is maybe just one flag flown amongst some 30,000."

The red, blue and white Confederate flag represents the 11 US Southern states which formed a republic in 1861 in order to preserve slavery and states` rights.

It is associated with the Ku Klux Klan and still sometimes used as a symbol of oppression and racism.


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On 5 Aug at 17:03 - Kerry from Florida said:


To me, the Confederate flag is offensive. I may live in one of the southern states now but come from New York. The Confederate flag reminds me of an unfortunate time way back when, but I look at it as the southerners not wanting us "northern" people in their state for fighting slavery. I wish the flag was gone.


On 6 Aug at 13:42 - Gail from South Carolina said:


The Confederate flag honors those who fought for Southern independence, a cause that Ireland can certainly relate to. The Civil War was fought to "preserve the Union" - prevent the secession of the Southern states - not to free slaves. Several slaves states fought on the side of the North.


On 6 Aug at 13:47 - Jeff Adams from Texas said:


The Confederate Battle Flag was created so that Confederate forces could distinguish themselves from Union forces during the War for Southern Independence. The flag represents the Southern states in America fighting for their rights and for honoring the constitution as designed by the founders. Slavery, as best, was a sub-issue under states rights. Lincoln and the north didn't go to war over slavery, and if they did, then they were criminals because the constitution allowed it. Our society today in America does not embrace the concept of slavery, for which I'm thankful, but to continuously teach the ignorant view that the Confederate flag represents racism is foolishness and politically correct dogma. I proudly fly the Confederate Battle Flag, as to me it represents the South and all that's good about her. And I have a right to determine what the flag stands for, as I'm a Southerner. Yankees and outsiders do not have the right to tell me what that flag stands for. I don't try and tell the Irish what their harp or shamrock stands for, or tell Yankees what I think something from up north stands for (I didn't name anything specific since the north is so bland they don't have much worth claiming).


On 7 Aug at 07:54 - Mike from Louisiana said:


It is unfortunate that people don't learn the facts about a subject before expressing an opinion. If they did then they would know that the Confederate battle flag is just that, a battle flag. It was designed to enable Southern commanders to distinguish their troops in the heat of battle from the enemy. I proudly fly the Battle flag to honor all Southern soldiers and the sacrifices they made. As in all wars, the victors write the history of the war. This usually translates into everything that was done by the victors as being noble and just. Everything about the losing side is portrayed as evil incarnate, especially their symbols. Obviously, this is the case with the "civil war". If people bothered to do a little research, they would find that there are many misconceptions and many down right lies. Just look at the title given to the war by many people, "civil war", that's a misnomer. The harder the yankees work to destroy our symbols, the harder we will fight to keep them flying!

by paul c Fri Aug 13, 2004 22:30

coincendatly came across this article
re confederate flag

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/09/22/5995007

by Edward Sebesta - Self Sat Aug 14, 2004 18:41 edwardsebesta at comcast dot net

There is a racist Confederate Celtic movement. My article was published in "Scottish Affairs" at the University of Edinburgh. You can read about it at the URL supplied. There is some low level activity in Cork, Ireland and I am glad someone is doing something about it.

Ed Sebesta

by laura Mon Sep 20, 2004 17:10 shoegirl at eircom dot net

I understand that people are saying that the colours of the flags are the reason for waving a confederate flag, but surely there are plenty of genuine flags to wave (for example in Cork city you could get a cheap flag for about 5 euro). I think there is something deeply negative and offensive about waving a flag such as the confederate one for those who do it. For example, if I was to locate a swastika (also red and white) and wave it, would it too be considered "ok" because it is red and white? (In fact at the rate confederate flags have defiantly been waved, I wouldn't be surprised to see swastikas being waved next year). There is certainly a need for education and SWP are quite right to raise the issue.

I for one find the flag offensive, and I reckon that those who fly it are probably aware of its offensive connotations - no doubt to offend those hard paying east-coast taxpayers who subsidise the "deep south" and "wild west" to the hilt. (PS I live in Cork so no bias here).

by Amused Mon Sep 20, 2004 17:18

I saw a Japanese flag, an American flag, a Soviet flag at the hurling final.
Think how many people were killed by armies flying under those flags.
Let's just ban all flags at Cork games - that should be a good campaign for the swappers.
One more campaign doomed to failure.

by Rebel Tue Sep 21, 2004 13:03

Couldn't agree more amused. We should actually ban support of all kinds, because it fosters the us-against-them attitude which has the world in the state its in.

Actually, I was at the final and saw a Palestinian flag. Lets ban that too. After all, the supporter was clearly only using the match as an excuse to advocate suicide bomb murders of innocent Israeli babies.

Laura, you may be from Cork, but you clearly don't know a thing about the GAA. Anyone flying a nazi flag would have the thing torn to shreds by a volunteer group hastily convened from those immediately around him. Contrary to your assumption, us proley types who go to these sort of uncouth events are usually decent people. Course, the SWP don't know much about people. Plenty about "The People" maybe, but not much about people.

by dal Sun Sep 25, 2005 17:57

The title Rebel County was given to Cork by the British back in 1499 as a derogatory term however Corkonians embraced the title. More than any other county, Cork has been the seat of the majority of rebellions against the Brits throughout Irish history, which is why we are proud to call ourselves the Rebel County.

by Record Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:22

before the war of independence..

1798?