Suicide must urgently be addressed

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Tue Nov 02, 2004 21:52

People are beginning to open up and look at Suicide, thankfully.

Today, Marian Finuncane's show covered the issue.

I am forever looking for the reason why and how to assist people who are forced to capitualate to an accumulation of pain.

25th October 2004
Ashleigh Wallace wrote a most interesting article that could be of benefit to someone; some group; some politicians particularly those in education and health; to those who form the Church and represent Christianity and the list is endless.....

The heading is striking.

'Befrienders who bring isolation to an end' by Ashleigh Wallace email: awallace@belfasttelegraph.co.uk

To me personally, the word befriender, takes me in line with the concept of Mentors in the University settings of Cambridge, Oxford, Trinity. Presonally, the mentor plays a key role and it is role that tends to be cross cutural and has something to offer.

You can access the article on www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyple/health but I will give a brief outline also.

The article states that most deaths in the North of Ireland result from mental health illnesses i.e. more so than road accidents.

It states that every three days, a person chooses to commit suicide in Northern Ireland. It looks at the impact of loneliness and isolation.

A charity called Praxis Mental Health has been established in five locations in the North of Ireland.

Its core function is a 'Befriending Service'. The Befriendee is referred by either the GP or District Nurse and is matched to a Befriender volunteer.

You will note from my earlier comments that I have embraced many dimensions of being mentally ill and I have reviewed many options. I believe this has scope.

I would ask people to put forward this suggestion to other people concerned with suicide. This type of programme has in the past worked in Universities of note and people have side tracked real mundane hardship for all concerned.

As the Peace Process lingers ........ we can look to the practicalities of the Health Services in North of Ireland adopting a pro-active approach that will allow the South of Ireland to benefit.

It is really time to curb competitiveness and move towards the more consensual approach to health and lifestyle.

Quotation:
Aristotle The Nicomachean Ethics

Aristotle's Challenge
'Anyone can become angry ... that is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way ....THIS IS NOT EASY.

I think Aristotle was before Christ......!!! Jack Nicholson in his film Anger Management is really only dealing with the same issue......

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon Oct 25, 2004 23:35

Rather than the matter of suicide fade to the distance of our thought, I decided to write a follow up.

We have lost a young woman in her twenties and an older man in his forties in a wooded area - a suicide pact.

We hear that this is a public health issue; we hear from the Church about the loss of faith; we hear that women tend to attempt suicide whearas men tend to complete the fatal act. The figures say the loss of 8 men to one woman.

Methodology can be medications, gas emissions, hanging etc. but why, I ask, do we exclude fatalities in motor accidents that quite clearly indicate an intention of suicide. This is reported in other countries. Then I ask about the missing persons list.

What are we afraid of? Are we trying to down play a social matter that needs serious attention. Are we afraid of how Anomie can create such causualties of fate.

I referred to Professor Brendan Kennelly's poemin the last piece I wrote. Professor Kennelly called the poem 'Good' and dedicated same to St. Stanilaus Kennedy (Focus).

I would ask people to think about different characteriestics in people and to think of people who are sensitive by nature and maybe not best equipped to deal with the very competitive society, that has been created.

The Poem is Good:

The good are vulnerable
As any bird in flight,
They do not think safety,
are blind to possible extinction
And when most vulnerable
Are most themselves....
The good incline to praise,
To have the knack of seeing that
The best is not destroyed
Although forever threatened...
The good are difficult to see
Through open, rare, destructive;
Always, they retain a kind of youth,
The vulnerable grace
Of any kind in flight.

To three people......thank you for the values you left behind for me.......to accept the vulnerabilities that plague me and that also give me the courage to persist in hope of acceptance. (To John Augustine, Micheal and Eleanor).

John Hume knows the 'Black Dog' but he also speaks of 'Diversity in Unit'.

Let's use the knowledge as individuals to open parameters and help people to overcome times of futility.

These are some web addresses that have provided me with knowledge.

Irish Association of Suicidology. www.ias.ie

Turning the Tide on Suicide. www.3ts.ie

Suicide Prevention Resource Centre (US)
www.sprc.org/index

Aware is to be recommended and particularly their weekly support services.

An afternoon programme last week on RTE dealt with the issue.

It was mentioned about the Beat the Blues programme run by Aware for schools not being acceptable to certain school principals.

The argument ran along the lines of the 'copy cat' factor? Has anybody a view and if so it is worth the time putting it forward to say Minister O'Malley.

I have no quote today but would ask to keep this Anomie in check. We need to remember that in Weakness, there is Strength so let's not destroy our humanity.


Michelle

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Mon Oct 11, 2004 00:08

Micheal

I read your response a few days ago. The facts are harsh and confirm what I feel about the society we live in today. To me, the rise in the number of suicides particularly men (1980 to date) correlate to the expectation (be corruption driven or otherwise) this Celtic Society has for each invididual member.

People tell you - Get Tough; Harden up; Refuse to accept that you think differentably about life and worse again insist that you join their camp - your destination is nothing but inadequate. Basically, this is the way they judge you.

The interconnectedness of our society has broken down; the word inclusiveness to me states the world of those within the corporate click - those people who drive the cars that represent status; who live in the right areas; who take several holidays a year; those who have the arrogance to put down those with sentiment and categorise them as basically nothing. They mock them amongst their clique for their non entity............Our school curriculum promotes this and this is further endorsed by our universities. There is an educational stranglehold that determines a certain kind of 'success' within the world order. Noam Chomsky is worth reading on this topic.

I fell out of the nest at the age of 32 and I battle. I know the other side and I experience the reality of now. I have the right address but I don't feel accepted. The only people I know who accept me are the few I met on the Trinity Horizon programme because we know deep down the hell within........It appears and strikes the spirit to nothing and all you can do is hope you make it through yet again........

All I can say is keep thinking of the word Hope......there is a reason for those who are sensitive and satient to the pains of society exist.

It is my own personal belief that Dr. Kelly felt duty bound to humanity to commit suicide, to highlight the need for people at every level of society to realise the gravity of the Iraq War and the fact that the weapons of mass destructions non existence. Durkheim; sociologist in the 1800's spoke of this in terms of Anomie......

Poets, writers, artists often express what others are afraid to feel. These people use Denial as their boundaries and have the capacity to have distractions like drink, consumer goods; holidays; fast cars; to deal with their basic needs.

For others and often the children of people with what appears to be 'ALL' escape into the sensual, the sensitivities and often take their lives.......The pain in society adds to their accumulated pain and the only answer is out. Yes; the answer is Suicide.

The question for those who remain is Why; What drove them; What amount of pain in society can be swept over by some and yet demolish to death others. Where is the research carried out by the Humanities in our Universities? Sometimes, I feel it just gathers dust because people do not have the impetus to truly assist those who are vulnerable in society. Science means to learn yet this word is surrounded by parameters in Ireland that submerge it under inability to have an economic value. We have no grasp or value on anything that does not appear to have a social value.

I am particularly fond of Professor Kennelly. So often in the most unusual of places I have seen his smiling face. The other day as I wandered in pain to Haddington Road Church I picked up a magazine. It included an article about Professor Kennelly's retirement and a poem simply titled Good that he had attributed to Sr. Stanilaus Kennedy. Alas in a scattered state I cannot include it now but I will find it and enter it to this site. The simplistic words make you realise there are others who feel just like you do and it is worth the fight. Life is about mystery. Maybe the onslaught of corruption within Ireland now is the threshold that switches the equilibrium towards equity.

October is a particularly poignant month. It is about the change of seasons.....it is about thinking......it is about hurting......so all I say is be alert and think of others who may be vulnerable and just a little to soft for this world and form a connectedness with them.


All the best


Michelle

by Micheál Sun Oct 03, 2004 21:17

I can see that pressure to succeed in exams and pressure to do well money-wise, with society becoming more prosperous, might be part of the explanation but the increased levels of suicide began before the Tiger really kicked in. I can’t see how the Euro and it’s supposed effect on the cost of living is relevant as the figures above only go up to 1998. And I’m not sure that these deaths are just happening amongst the poorest in Ireland. Surely there is something more complicated at play?

by Marian Sheppard Sun Oct 03, 2004 03:48

Too much pressure is the cause of suicide and what is needed is less pressure to e put on children with for example the exam structure and the points system. Also the spiring cost of loving since the euro came on board puts much pressure on families. Whe we think about it life is worth very little. Marian

by Micheál Sun Oct 03, 2004 01:22

I'd be interested on views as to why suicide rates have increased (particularly amongst young men) so dramatically in Ireland in recent decades.

These figures show the male youth suicide rate per 100,000:

1980 8.3
1981 8.4
1982 11.4
1983 10.9
1984 12.7
1985 11.4
1986 11.8
1987 11.8
1988 12.7
1989 14.4
1990 16
1991 18.7
1992 18.7
1993 19.3
1994 19.9
1995 23.3
1996 27.2
1997 33.2
1998 30.9

Medial people usually point to genetic reasons but I assume that genetic makeup is not dramatically different to what it was thirty years ago. There are other factors at play.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Wed Sep 29, 2004 23:46 michelle33 at eircom dot net

Micheal

I was interested in your comment to Sean.

I am between the devil and the deep blue sea on this subject.

I am diagnosed bipolar; take medications that level moods but do not escape the ritual dance with suicide when 'out of the blue normally' my mood drops like a stone to the bottom.......

I agree that the focus is too much based on medicalisation and the implications of pharmaceutical connections are not above reproach. Recent research in fact shows that many anti-depressants have suicide as a side effect.

However, I must say that on one occasion in particular, my mind became so distraught that no logic applied and this coupled with excessive anxiety meant that I begged for both hospital and ECT to stop the pain.

I entered hospital for five months; I needed as a last resort 15 sessions of ECT and one day in fact May 26th 1999, as I returned from ECT in Ardee to Navan Psychiatric, I knew 'it' was over and it was. All that was left was re-adjusting to society again.

Pain is what suicide is about. Recently I read some note that it was 'accumulated pain' that pulled the trigger. This is why we need to be alert to excessive precipitating events particulary in younger children also.

We must remember that there must be a pulling together of medical profession; psychoeducation; a more educated teaching profession; a multiple intelligence syllabus; a greater acceptance of difference etc.

I gained benefit as a mature student. The Trinity Horizon Programme in conjunction with Horizon, Aware and the NRB ran a pilot project for three sets of nine months with a varied syllabus to re-integrate women with depression into the workforce. Presently this has evolved into research into Work Life Balance.

Fortunately this brought me into Trinity and although I never received the final Degree (short of it) the education and the provision of a psychologist for support assisted me to deal with my lows and highs. I have not been in hospital since 1999.

I would recommend the Aware lectures each month at St. Patrick's Hospital - this is now referred to psycho education and this surely is the way forward, the means of escaping denial and helping us put out the hand that might just save another.

I failed on this count. The day before I left hospital there was a rumpus in our ward. A woman who had befriended me during an earlier visit, became distressed. I got up and sat up with her. She detailed her plan...pending receipt of her clothes.......I begged her not to. Like you Micheal, I had lost two, my dear father and his brother, I tried to explain about the pain for those left behind.

I left that morning. I gave her a bar of chocolate and she hugged me so tight. She had given me a poem about being a Student and urged that I continue.

Unfortunately........the accumulated pain was too severe and she walked out of the hospital that day........I wish her peace.

I note that former Northern Ireland Secretary, Mr. Reid has taken a hands on approach in the UK in matters relating to health. We need Mary Harney to do the same.

I would ask the Tanaiste to take his lead and go for transparency and the recognition of patients or service users in the decision making process.

Now I am going to provide a quotation for E. Goffman. Thankfully, an open minded tutor introduced me to this writer.....

Stigma
'For example while the mental patient is in the hospital, and when he is with adult members of his own family, he is faced with being treated tactfully as if here sane when there is known to be some doubt, even though HE MAY NOT HAVE ANY; OR HE IS TREATED AS INSANE WHEN HE KNOWS THAT THIS IS NOT JUST.....................'

Welcome the Disability Bill.......Please ensure the assessors have teeth.......

Please not allow Denial to abuse those made vulnerability by mood disorder......being treated tactfully is painful and diminishes self worth and I can vouch for this.

We need to move forward and positively. We need to demolish denial and review cause of death in road traffic accidents as is done in other countries.....

I am delighted Mary Hannafin has been moved to education and hope she will encourage main unidersitives to be more proactive in their research methodologies and open minded.

I cannot understand why universities do not tap resources from students with certain illnesses particularly psychiatric and neurology related......It seems crazy to me that people devise questions for research without real knowledge i.e. experience. I sustained a head injury and quite a lot of damage e.g. hearing, sight, smell, right side etc. and this along side severe Anxiety and a Bipolar diagnosis.

Trinity opened my mind to reviewing my own diagnosis yet I locked in a 'box'.

Michelle

by Micheál Wed Sep 29, 2004 13:35

Above I was responding to the comments made by S.Fleming Saturday, Aug 7 2004. Have not read the others yet.

Correct link to related information

http://www.ymca-ireland.org/health%20ed/Final%20draft%20slideshownn.ppt

by Micheál Wed Sep 29, 2004 13:30

I absolutely agree. I lost two brothers through suicide: one in 1989 and another in 1997. The medical approach, I would say, meant that instead of being able to overcome a difficult experience and breakdown my first brother took his own life and I think that set a pattern which was copied by the second. Combined with that there was an equal degree of ignorance around the care of my second brother: no attempt to discover the root of the problem, emphasis on quick drug-based control. I found these insightful graphs showing the ridiculous increases in youth suicides in Ireland in recent decades: www.ymca-ireland.org/health%20ed/ Final%20draft%20slideshownn.ppt . The Tiger Economy has some victims too.

by s.fleming Wed Sep 15, 2004 15:53

no michelle, i didn't meet a man called kevin at that time and place. Why?

by Michelle Clarke Mon Sep 13, 2004 21:48

Monday September 13th Waterloo Road - S. Fleming did you meet a man named Kevin circa 5.45 p.m.

Michelle

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Thu Sep 09, 2004 00:36

The number of fatal car accidents recently alarms me.........I don't know why but personally I seem to link them with suicide and ask the question why RTA details are not more specific in detail (as in other countries).

www.un.org/news is an interesting website. The notification of World Suicide Prevention Day is September Friday 10th 2004. This coincides with the Aware Daisy days. Thursday; Friday; and Saturday - Bulbs for planting will be sold throughout the Island of Ireland. This years focus is Depression and Suicide Prevention.

The UN agency seeks to curb 'the huge but largely preventable problem of suicide'. The figures reveal that almost 1 million people die as a consequence of suicide. This is more than from homicides and wars combined. This makes suicide a 'tragic global public health problem' according to the World Health Organisation.

The World Health Organisation stress the importance of EARLY IDENTIFICATION AND TREATMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH DISORDERS.

The news report outlines a large number of complex underlying causes including poverty, unemployment, loss of loved ones, arguments, relationship breakdowns; to name but a few.

They also state that having access to the means to suicide is both an important risk factor and determinant of suicide.

Stigma remains in Ireland. Aware, Mental Health Organisation, Mind and other organisations and people like the Samaritans are there with the listening ear.

Listen to Christy Moore's Song; Don MacLean and Vincent; the writer Sylvia Plath. You are not alone just stretch out the hand. Drink and drugs are not the answer, it is humanity and the ability to not experience loneliness in being alone. Life is a journey and there are many pilgrims out there to take your hand.

People hit momentary suicidal dips and make it through. To be a survivor of suicide haunts your life particularly if stigma surrounds it.

A quotation: News International

SIZE MATTERS!!!!!

'Perhaps that what the 21st century has in store for us. The dismantling of the BIG. PERHAPS IT WILL BE CENTURY OF SMALL THINGS.

Indian Writer - Arundhati Roy
and Activist

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Sun Aug 22, 2004 23:28 michelle33 at eircom dot net

Hi Paul

Yes I have heard about it.

2 years ago a friend and myself (both having a psychiatric history) were asked to join others at the Hilton Hotel at Dublin Airport.

The choice of venue remains beyond me but what stunned me more was the name of the conference room i.e. the Lunar Room.

Time moves on and the objective was about Advocacy and Peer Advocacy particularly.

Here are some details for you to look into:

Irish Advocacy Network
Contact: Paddy McGowan and Mervyn Tierney

www.irishadvocacynetwork.com

This is a quotation, Irish Advocacy Network cite.......

'A Civilization is measured by its treatment of its most vulnerable groups. We must remember that citizens and their voices should be heard, their views respected and their interests defended (EC 1990)'


Courses are run for Peer advocates and this programme is up and running a number of years now.

Peer Advocacy for vulnerable people is essential and I would recommend people with spare time considering the option.

Paul - the only other suggestion is via Oasis on the net as per Comhairle. They have now moved into the Advocacy field.

Take care



Michelle

by paul c Sun Aug 22, 2004 00:27

ever come across "peer advocacy""

by Michelle Clarkke - Social Justice and Ethics Sat Aug 21, 2004 21:02 michelle33 at eircom dot net

Michelle who wrote 17th August 2004 notes that nobody commented.


I never intended to be morose or too frank so hope nobody is offended.

Just to say: let each low be an engagement to a life full of mystery........


Michelle

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Tue Aug 17, 2004 22:33 michelle33 at eircom dot net

Michelle says hello to PC. I live in a timeless world brought about mainly by medications and head injury......but somehow I get back to the question in time.

First, I must say that Stigma provides a major barrier to people. Parents responsible for their children's health interests can mask the diagnosis using denial as the excuse to avoid the input and invest the money early rather than late. A psychologist dealing with young people enlightened me about this.

Place this aside, the next issue is the importance of education. Special needs education must be provided to children in need of same....there is a large waiting list as it stands. Every school requires dedicated psychologists and counsellors along with parent teacher panels including senior students voted in by their fellow students. Awareness is critical and the break down of stigma vital.

The issue of Crammers and that 1 in three who attend university now pay euros5,000 to attend these is a poor reflection on our Department of Education. This means widgets are the product that gets to university.....this level of conformity yields its own problems surely. I

I believe in the importance of experience. For example, in Canada mature students can choose to write an authobiographical thesis. This keeps lectures and departments alert to the needs of people as distinct from sources of funding via corporates.

The early education is required to avoid the long-term medicalisation of people who can have 'life events' dealt with early.
We need to petition Government for the vulnerable members of society.

As a plan: This has saved me from several attempts. I have fallen slowly. First stop, I head via email for the Samaritans. Then I ensure to not put myself in way of harm. I avoid the temptation of the alcohol mixed with medications and I sit it out - similar to sitting out a flu, I stay at home and out of sight of water.

Then I have a spotter......a person who is there to make the odd suggestion and also accept where I am coming from.

One crucial factor - in the broad spectrum of life for me was the realisation that I tended to satisfy expectations and seek perfection. The acceptance of me, the pull-back from results, the realisation that people like Seneca, time of Ceasar 1000 BC, came to the same conclusion for depression, allows me to continue with my own personal experiment - that may benefit others from the darkness within.

Some suggestions: try websites:
The Irish Association of Suicidology
Aware
Mental Health Assoc
... Look out for leaflets
If working in companies, look to the 'new approach' of Work Life Balance
In schools - look to what is provided and if nothing go to your parents and hope they have VHI and get supports......It is worth it.

For Fathers:
One Family Matters provides voice, support and action for one-parent families through membership, professional services and campaigning.

This may have been set up by women but the time surely has come for men like Mr. Skiberreen to have a voice.......Your children are worth the input


Michelle
A problem shared is a problem halfed. I rely on the old addage 'Knowledge is no load' and when I am not into humans I find some books with words of wisdom

by :-) Fri Aug 13, 2004 23:29

know nothing about that.

by paul c Fri Aug 13, 2004 22:08

but these people one would be nice to have to deal with the mental health system (having mental health difficulties in daily work/life) in the various areas... and its in this that just being nice ain't enough to be fair

by :-) Fri Aug 13, 2004 21:47

recognise that most of us go through real periods of suffering & it's all quite normally abnormal in more than a few heads but with a bit of patience and support everything can look better in a just a little while.

Stay strong Diego!

by paul c Tue Aug 10, 2004 16:54

so what can be done on a grassroots level about mental health?

interesting reply mc

by Michelle Clarke - Mental Health Survivor Tue Aug 10, 2004 01:12 michelle33 at eircom dot net Dublin 4

S. Fallon.

Michelle says hello. Yes, I am inclined to agree that Aware has the medicalisation focus but then in 1985, a team of people associated with St. Patrick's Hospital, Psychiatric, were prepared to address an issue that was previously wrapped up in secrecy and denial.

They introduced the concept of psycho-education with their monthly meetings given by professionals in the psychiatric field. At that time and up to three years this was not done in the UK. The us/them division that is evident in other areas of health in Ireland was the maintream approach.

Yes, I too would like to know the contributions by the pharmaceutical companies to all members of the medical profession/universities/health/research boards etc. Now we see, like in the Drinks industry, absolute corporatism in the major brands due to the mergers and acquisitions strategies. Yes we need transparency and more programmes like Panorama re. Seroxat.

However, we also need social and ethical expenditure by these companies for those who are vulnerable and in need of support. Diageo, for instance, ought to be visibily subsidising programmes similar to the Rutland Programme for alcholics and children of alcholics. Our Finance department should make available tax incentives in certain circumstances and work together for redressing problems and providing people with the opportunity of a fresh start.

On these grounds, I recall Prof. McKeons reply to a person who suggested the State ought to be fully responsible for funding.
It was straightforward: If the State funds Mental Health education, the reality is it allows denial to persist. Aware made the issue open. It gave family members the opportunity to learn about illnesses and then decide what route to take - the medicalisation route or otherwise. More importantly, it allowed the like of me to know what drugs I take, the cost of 'breaking the rules re. meds., it allowed me to feel free to be open and explain to others,,,,,,,,,

Mr. Skibbereen sounded hurt by my cliches. Alas, my story is not unlike his except I have no children. I got ill-health as a distraction for me. I sustained a head injury in a riding accident in Zimbabwe 11 years ago, my marriage of 12 years came tumbling down; I lost hearing in my right ear, sight and focus in my right eye, and severe memory short-term impairment. This was added to Bipolar diagnosis and anxiety. I rely on my medications.

My savior believe it or not was Aware, a good Psychiatrist, a psychologist, Trinity Horizon Project and Trinity University. I attended an excellent psychologist in Trinity for six years.

in 1996 I saw an advert in Aware and I said I will apply and became a guinea pig.......This paved the way.......to keep trying......to realise that there were others like me......and if I could not think enough of me......to fight the system for them. This forms the basis of close friends who understand.....

The computer which we were introduced to was excellent. It enabled me to network so that I could align with Aware, Bodywhys, Irishhealth, Oasis, and HEADWAY (Neurological).

Education is of prime importance. Sometimes and this is just a humble opinion I feel that the Catholic Church and the Department of Education should consider funding further education programmes for people subjected to abuse in Universities like Trinity and UCD - there is a wealth of experience to be gained from pain.

Mr. Skibbereen. I would suggest networking with parental equality and following writers like John Waters. Children need both parents ............ Fathers ought to make a stand .... in fact every person ought to make their stand about injustice.

I note the courts......but have you had experiernce of the Church annulment scenario yet............This is archaic and frightening as far as I am concerned.

Last point: I attended a lecture by Barry McGale from the North of Ireland held at St. Patricks. He was excellent - there is an interesting process he mentioned about schools in the North. It relates to a greater focus on Arts type subjects and looks at children from a perspective of those who are afraid to take the first step. I was one of those kids and basically we are looking at temperaments and character types.


Quote: Gandhi
'You have to be the change you want to see'

'Live as if you are going to die tomorrow but learn as if you are going to learn for the rest of your life'

Good Night


Michelle

by Myra Mon Aug 09, 2004 15:14

"A great deal of evidence though it would seem points to societal /environmental factors as being the main causes behind suicide - not a mental illness or psychiatric disorder" . - could you please point me in the direction of some of this evidence?? thanks
M

by S.Fleming Sun Aug 08, 2004 13:11

While I accept that individuals in Aware may be sincere in their desire to help they are wrongly in my view promoting the 'medicalisation' of this issue. They are of the view that suicide is related to psychiatric illness. Quote below from Aware website:

"The prevalence of psychiatric disorder found in studies of suicide victims have shown over the decades, both at home and abroad, that there is a highly consistent association between mental illness and suicide, with over 90% of suicide victims being diagnosed as mentally ill."

www.aware.ie/suicide.html

A great deal of evidence though it would seem points to societal /environmental factors as being the main causes behind suicide - not a mental illness or psychiatric disorder.

I believe though as Michelle points out that people definitely need some support network in place and people to turn to. The most important thing, I guess, is to share the pain with someone else.

As an aside, I still can't get an answer from Aware as to whether they have received or receive funding or donations from the pharmaceutical companies .Does anyone know?

by Former suicidal male Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:35

Michelle. Is it just me or does your commentary break down into a string of cliches? This makes me think you are part of the "counselling industry" . How is your CV coming along? The same industry which has been failing men of all ages while surrounding women who utter the slightest whimper or lie.

Aware , for me when I was suicidal, was useless. A daisy day in September or a monthly support group in Dublin once a fortnight is no use to a man in West Cork. I was told that that the nearest meeting to me was 75 miles away in a fortnights time, and that was no good to me when I had set up a rope on the stairs. I rang the Samaritans but found them no help although they did listen for a while. I found they were averse to dealing with my "issues" as they say in the Business/Industry. That was just my experience as a suicidal man. A real experience and not a cliche. Saying "there, there" is not much use.

The reason I was suicidal? I had been emotionally and mentally abused over years by my wife who had learned all the "cliches" of therapy and counselling herself and how to use them to gain sympathy and appear "abused". When all else failed her to dominate me she took a protection order against me for absolutely no reason other than that she had had a tantrum. I was stunned by the injustice of the family court. I had no hearing and what she said was taken as gospel. She said she was in fear and I was out of my home! I know there are men and women who are violent and their spouse needs court protection but these days a great many women use the family court like a weapon for no reason other than to bully or gain sole possession of the family home when they decide they want to be with another man (or woman) . I remember the day I left that Circuit court stunned and so alone. I could not believe that without any crime or evidence I could be found "guilty" and thrown from my home, a home I built with my own hands.

The family court is simply the regular circuit court judge sitting in his chambers at the back of the court out of sight of the public and nobody can see the way it works. It's murderous injustice is dispensed secretly and only the judge and lawyers who practice it's black art of lying and misrepresentation know how it works and how to work it. Since then , and thankfully I have come to terms with it all by now, I have heard many similar stories of men treated like dirt and left homeless or without access to their children simply because in the event of any breakdown of the marriage the wife can go to court and take over the house and children simply because she "alleges" she is afraid.

Three of my friends have killed themselves in the last three years because of similar situations resulting from the Family (circuit) court. Another neighbour burned himself to death in the offices of Wolf &Co Solicitors in Skibbereen because his wife had used them to get a barring order against him entering his home or seeing his children. It took him two days to die. And there was no outcry! It is my suspicion that a great number of male suicides have been through this meat grinder that is the family courts and found themselves condemned and branded and utterly alone as they look for a smelly bed sit to live in. There is nothing worse than having your family and home taken from you, for no reason. The injustice, resentment and pain is just too much for most men. But sure we're from Mars, so what the hell..............

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Aug 08, 2004 01:06 michelle33 at eircom dot net D4 none

TIME FOR THOUGHT......... WE ALL DIFFER ...... LET'S SET A GOAL FOR PEACE AND INCLUSIVENESS


Hello from Michelle.

Suicide:

I agree with the writer. This issue needs major attention. Our young people need guidance and more action is required.

It is possible to break a cycle that is geared to the act within the mind of person suffering such pain and anguish.

Empathy and caring are always required.

I lost my father and uncle to suicide and my life is greatly complicated by depression - the bipolar mood swing that leaves me suicidal in the dip.

Help is there but just hard to find.

Firstly hands on I recommend the Samaritans - they provide a listening ear and kindness.

I also suggest AWARE (Offices North and South of Ireland)

Aware hold weekly meetings and monthly lectures at St. Patrick’s Hospital. They raise funds in variety of ways including Daisy Days in September – look out for people selling the bulbs.

Remember always there are people who will help you. The hard part is making the decision to make contact and try and redress the balance.

It is also advisable to look to the school or university counselling services and become informed. You must also consider the general practitioner. A large percentage of suicide cases are people who suffer from depression - a depression that may be masked i.e. 'the smiling depression' in front of friends.

Never fail to be alert to the signs….Knowledge is no load. There are survivors too from suicide and they too can be thankful to intervention…….

Nietzche: ‘He who knows the reason why can deal with any how’.

This is sound but I must reveal that Nietzche, the philosopher who wrote this, capitulated to the pain of suicide.

by sean fleming Sat Aug 07, 2004 21:40

Some interesting comments there.I didn't realise the figure was so high. I like your website. This is the latest suicide of a young person, female ,in West Belfast but certainly most of the suicides I can think of recently in N.Belfast,in particularly, have been male so you definitely have a point.

by Hilaal Sat Aug 07, 2004 21:17

With sympathy for the family of the girl who took her life in Belfast I must point out that when a female dies it is a Big Issue and "must be tackled", but how many people realise that men are dying in much greater numners and nobody seems to care.

Four out of five of Irish suicides are MALES. Around 5,000 men have taken their lives in the last ten years. This is more men than the total number of road deaths in the same period. We have seen campaign after campaign to lower road deaths, points systems and news report after news report about the massacre on the roads. But silence around the thousands of men dying silently every year.

Why are men dying in such numbers? Men's Aid Founder, Fintan Dunne examines the reasons for the escalating male suicide rate on his site "Mens Aid".

"Media is certainly suffused with supermodel allure, and mass-marketing sells on female empowerment. Many adverts feature dim-witted or ineffectual males- in a reversal of past sexism. Two legs good, four legs bad- as they say on Animal Farm.

Laying all this at the door of feminism would be unfair though. Commercial interests will always stoop to sexist methods to sell products.

But feminism did unleash existing Irish tendencies to bigotry. Today, males are just the latest scapegoats to fall foul of our stereotype bias, but can this really explain so dramatic a rise in suicide among men?

Suicide was a crime against both State and Church, and in our former rule-based society this served as an effective restraint. So why are men much more at risk with new freedoms? Partly because they are more effective than women at the business of suicide, and their suicides are often resolute. Furthermore their reluctance to seek help from others means two thirds will never avail of State suicide treatment services. Their reluctance is the rock Ireland's response to suicide may founder on.

Their educational experience has left many young men suspicious of what they see as institutional structures. Furthermore, men are still enmeshed in the hierarchy. The hierarchy of cars, of business and league-table hierarchies in sport dominate the male ethos. In male hierarchies weakness is still inadmissible. That surely hinders men seeking help for their distress as readily as do women.

However these factors are also common to American and British culture- yet the Irish male suicide rate far outstrips their rates. Perhaps our modern tiger-economy stress culture plays a part. Self-worth in Ireland is defined more and more by externals than any sense of inner worth. If the externals collapse- either in business or personal life, there may be no sense of self-worth to sustain the suicidal person at their low point..

Or if the dogged pursuits of our winner culture are an undue effort because of sensitivity, attitude or ability then a slow decline through alienation may result in suicide. The power of culture ideals to produce low self-esteem among outsiders cannot be underestimated.

What are schools doing to foster self-reliance and self-esteem? Most are authoritarian, insisting not only on uniforms but also on bland educational uniformity. Pupils are graded like tomatoes under a system geared to indoctrination rather than education for life. Many emerge still dependant rather than independent..

The causes of suicide will take years to correct. The prevention of suicide in the interim is a vital priority. We stand to loose over 500 lives a year if we do not launch a radio public health information campaign on how to cope with suicidal feelings. This would help men and women raise their own suicidal state with friends or family. A problem shared is a problem half-way to being solved."

Reprint freely. Copyright © Fintan Dunne 1999.

May the families of those who were driven to this desperate situation feel the infinite Grace and Love of God and know that His mercy and forgiveness are infinite.

Family Law is a Killer