Christie to give up council seat

by anarchist Thu Jul 15, 2004 16:41

I'm not a supporter of SF but at least Martin admitted he stole the money from his old job - he made a mistake (we're all human) and he apologised for it, tried to make amends for it.

How much money has been spent on tribunals and the like - investigating people who have been stealing hundreds of thousands or else receiving similar amounts in bribes, and they still wont tell the truth about what happened? They drag it out as far as they can...

Its also slightly hypocritical of SF to expel him in this way. They have no problem with people who used to be on the army council - and who probably killed people or participated in physical beatings - taking their seats, but steal from the bosses wallet, and you're out the door. Which is worse?

Not that it matters to me anyway, since as an anarchist I think all forms of electioneering is a load of undemocratic blah blah etc etc...

by Intrigued Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:10

The statement from Justin gives no reason as to why Sinn Fein asked him to step down.
So why?

by Pat Breen Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:13

But it does go to show that the Shinners are fundamentally different in their approach and at least their actions are consistent with their words in terms of opposing corruption. Their swift and decisive action in something you would never get in FF, LP or FG. Although Martin Christie is not a criminal in any sense of the word i do think the Shinners had to act in the way they did. I think they should be commended.

by Cynic Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:18

"But it does go to show that the Shinners are fundamentally different in their approach and at least their actions are consistent with their words in terms of opposing corruption. Their swift and decisive action in something you would never get in FF, LP or FG. Although Martin Christie is not a criminal in any sense of the word i do think the Shinners had to act in the way they did. I think they should be commended."

Cynic that I am you have just confirmed to me that this whole episode has been stage managed. Why has his position become untenable?

by Ali Baba Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:23

SF reps who were convicted of IRA offences is one thing and their past would be consistent with pusruing republican politics through SF activity. However, stealing for personal gain, even if it is from the Bosses is an entirely different matter altogether and possibly shows tendencies that would be detrimental to pusruisng republican and socialist objectives, especially while in an elected capacity. Martin Christie and SF probably had no real choice if you think about it.

by Shinner Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:24

I would imagine he was asked to stand down because the Cuige felt that his ability to represent Sinn Fein and the people of Mulhudart had been undermined by the incident and the subsequent coverage it has received. I see no Hypocrisy between asking Martin to step down and having members of the army who took part in the legitimate war against the British presence in our country serve as public representatives. I would like to take this opportunity also to commend Martin, it is an unfortunate situation, but in the circumstances, a totally unavoidable one.

by curious Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:27

To what end?

As for the individual concerned, I feel sorry for him and think that maybe a suspension would have been adequate but he did have to be disciplined in some way. Imagine if nothing had been done? Shit would still have hit the fan except that then it would not only have been a hunt of the individual but loads of crap about SF electing and protecting corrupt members.

by Pat Breen Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:28

"Why is his position unteneable?". If you have to ask that question there is probably fuck all I can do to answer it. Are you thick or what? Why would you 'stage manage' such a balls up of a situation? His credibility was damaged for God's sake! Your own credibility as a political observer is also damaged by your moronic posting!

by gMCg Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:28

Rubbish, are trying to say that Sinn Fein somehow brought this about. I think they would like to avoid insistences like this at all cost.
I am glad that the statement of Martin means that once again he has parted with his employers on good term.

by TT Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:31

Now when can we expect all those backhander-receiving Fianna Failers to start falling on their swords? I'm sure the amounts of money they pocketed was far in excess of what this shinner took.

by Cynic Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:33

Nothing like a dose of the SFuppies to confirm my belief.
Why is his position untenable. He didn't break the law?
Why wasn't Maskey thrown out for his illegal use of disability stuff?

by brenners Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:40

You said he never broke the law.
When you stand for election to public office the bar must be raised beyond legal interpretations. The mark must be one of personal morals and integrity. The fact that MR Christy had taken part in this incident means that he fell below this mark.
While parties such as FF have chosen to take a legalistic approach, Sinn Féin have chosen to take a moral and principled approach. I think they are right and more parties should follow suit.

by Justin Moran - SF (Personal capacity) Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:41

No desire to be dragged into a debate on this site so I'll keep this brief.

Martin was asked to resign by the Ard Comhairle of Sinn Féin following an Inquiry into his actions because it was our belief that his position as a Councillor for the party was politically untenable.

For Martin, his family, his friends and comrades in the party this has been a very difficult time for us all. The entire episode is depressing and disappointing.

Martin put the interests of the party first and has pledged to resign his seat. He remains, I am glad to say, a member of the party and a comrade of whom we are very proud and whose actions today confirm that. Regrettably it was felt that he could not remain a councillor and so this decision was taken.

Sin é.

by Cynic Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:43

Didn't take the SFuppie long to tell Justin. Are they all based in the one office?

by Stephen Daedalus Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:45

I have heard all sorts about Martin Christie in the past number of weeks. I heard that he robbed old computers from work. This would not be a major crime if the old computers were to be thown out. Recycling surely? I also heard that he was accused of sexual harrassment of a minor. I'd reckon this is just complete idle talk (indeed slanderous talk). Now the latest is that he 'stole money from work'.

Does anyone know what Cllr. Christie is accused of by Sinn Fein?

by shinner Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:53

He failed to register the sale of goods at work for about 1,500 euro. he was employed in a wholesale cement company at the time.

by brenners Thu Jul 15, 2004 17:54

Who are you talking about?

by Confused Thu Jul 15, 2004 18:02

Stealing somebody's car to plant explosives (whatever about the morality of the explosives) is acceptable.
Robbing a bank to finance the movement is acceptable.
But Christies actions are unacceptable.
If SF ever get to power, how can I as a voter expect this to translate within the legal system?

by sOCIALIST Thu Jul 15, 2004 18:08

SF took the right decision. What if he had taken a back hander in the council in a moment of madness?

by . - socialist party (personal capacity) Thu Jul 15, 2004 21:10

seems to me that removing him is very strong stuff.
I can respect this difficult decision but i wonder if this could have been let go. It isnt the same as using a political position to line your pocket it is a mistake in the fellows past.

by iosaf Fri Jul 16, 2004 13:11

it sort of sets a precedent as well no?
anyway enough said.

I hope the employer could afford it, and other workers didn't lose pay over it, and that 1,500€ was needed and well spent.
To be honest, I doubt it is unusual for workers to "fleece" their employers, in the retail sector most loss of profit stems from what is termed "shrinkage", which covers everything from breakages to shoplifiting to pilfering. Retail outlets work to keep shrinkage down to about 3% which is laughable, and the reason why there are so many new natty security methods making it harder for people to steal- (what is it people steal?)
oh yes-
sweat shop produced clothing.
intensively farmed food.
Until wages are high enough and working conditions good enough, the poorest will always be tempted to pilfer, fleece, rip off whomever they are employed by. I recall being told by a RC priest that in the poorest areas, the sin he heard confessed the most was exactly that. Pilfering.
And I don't think it's so terribly bad. is it?
Pinochet opened his Washington bank account in 1998 with over 1.2 million $.
Haughey contributed to the shrinkage of the Irish economy add up the figures, they count, that man and his mates actually clocked up a % point in their systematic theft.
so. one council has one less person who has made real life moral choices. The others are of course "squeeky clean".

by Do It Yourself Woman Fri Jul 16, 2004 13:16

I'm building an extension on the back of my house. Any chance Martin Christie or any of the the other Sinners could get me some cheap cement?

by tom Fri Jul 16, 2004 15:54

Do it yourself woman's comment is the sort of stuff you'd be hearing no end of in the national press if Chrissie hadn't resigned and if the story had got out . SF can't expect the easy handling the likes of Redmond and Burke got over the years from the media. Chrissie's problem is that he didn't steal millions .

by Ardoyne Republican Fri Jul 16, 2004 16:26 (Tongue in Cheek Street)

Press statement in from MLA Gerry Kellly:
In light of the fact that Martin Christie has been universally applauded by members of my party Sinn Fein for admitting to breaking the code of the Republican movement, in this instance stealing for personal greed, I would like to announce that forthwith I will be resigning my seat to Stormont.
I was once a committed IRA volunteer but thanks to that fucking peace process that Grizzly has led us into blindfolded I have done things that I have found hard to stomach.
But after hearing of the courageous resignation of Martin Christie, it has made me look deep into my soul and examine what this Party stands for and what my contribution to what it stands for means.
Therefore with immediate effect I will be resigning for the reason of negating one of the basic elements of republicanism, namely ensuring that the PSNI and the British Army were allowed to protect a bunch of supremacist thugs pass through a republican area. Once upon a time I would have cleared the way for Brit land rovers and lured them into trap. But this week much to my shame I gestured them through and what's more they trusted me. The fact that the Brits and PSNI were completely out numbered and were about to be hammered didn't stop me from wading in to help them. Thanks to Martin I have navel gazed and took stock of my actions. I would like to apologise to all republicans for my actions and hope to make amends for my actions of this week.

by mulhuddart resident Fri Jul 16, 2004 16:58

Any early candidates for the position? Are head office tipping anyone for the position?

by bakunin Fri Jul 16, 2004 23:14

For fuck's sake

by Chris Barry Sat Jul 17, 2004 18:12

Did the SF leadership know about this prior to or during the election campaign?

Did the SF leaderhsip know of any other dodgy practices that other candidates are involved in?

Personally, I know of at least one other unsuccessful Sinn Fein candidate in the Dublin area that has a well known knack of catching things as they fall of the backs of lorries, I wont identify him for obvious legal reasons.

by john Sat Jul 17, 2004 20:10

that you are making it up. Murphy used this shit in Tallaght against SF and Labour and it seems to have worked but swings and roundabouts and all that.... particularly ironic that Murphy with his personal associations ought to be throwing dirt around

by non political party citizen Sat Jul 17, 2004 22:07

He must be stark raving mad to have anything else to do with SF, they shafted him for political gains, can he not see that.

by flabbergasted Sat Jul 17, 2004 22:31

is marylou still his mate, will she be still inviting him for smoked salmon and champagne in her back garden, how very socialist.

by sf non voter Sat Jul 17, 2004 22:37

where will they get one, i believe there are very few available even with a pea brain.

by milk of amnesia Sat Jul 17, 2004 22:52

"He failed to register the sale of goods at work for about 1,500 euro."

Shure maybe he just had a touch of the ould Alzheimer's ... there's a lot of it about .....
"I have no recollection of any such sale of goods ...."

And he had to resign for that ?
Just goes to show that four digit petty crime doesn't pay .....
You need to move up closer to the six or seven digit stuff before you become immune from facing the consequences of your actions ....

by Tom Waits fro no man - Marshalls of Rock Sat Jul 17, 2004 23:00

The expressions champagne socialist and smoked salmon socialist are a little bit outdated considering-

you can buy smoked salmon for about 4 euro in any supermarket

fizzy wine ye can get for about five euro- or a bottle of the real stuff in France for 6 or so

As the late Ray Mc Nally said to a reporter , playing a hard left socialist who gets elected PM in "A Very British Coup"-

We don't want to abolish first class
we want to abolish second

Now, anyone want some cider and mackarel?

by flabbergasted Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:52

i wasn't talking plonk i was talking MOET, i dont think you will get that at 6e even in France if you can let me know.

by Tue Jul 20, 2004 13:23

who will take his seat

by dublin 15 Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:04

Maybe Luke Stynes who polled well in neighbouring castleknock

by dub Fri Jul 23, 2004 20:11

i wouldn't think so

by mary Sat Jul 24, 2004 17:13

what about his wife,