Privacy and Private Schooling

national | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Tuesday May 25, 2004 00:57

by Barra Ó Gríobhtha

My opinions regarding Michael D. Higgins recent outburst, and the subject of private education

The privacy issue is being used as a smoke screen to deflect the debate from the most important issue; that being a party’s obligation to represent the views of those who elect it. Private schooling is in conflict with core socialist beliefs, and this makes Pat Rabbitte’s position untenable.

Lets not get side tracked. There are two important issues at play here, one major and one minor. I’ll tackle the minor one first – the privacy of Pat Rabbitte’s children.

My views on privacy are probably more fascist than most. For example, I believe that the media should not be permitted to congregate outside a person’s residence as they so often do – it’s a form of stalking in my opinion. And I also accept that Michael D. Higgins has indeed invaded the privacy of Pat Rabbitte’s children. But how much damage do I think has been done to the Rabbitte family, and in particular to the Rabbitte children, as a result of this controversy? Very little. Pat Rabbitte's credibility is another matter.

But their privacy was invaded? Indeed it was, but invasion of privacy is part and parcel of democracy and in particular, socialism. For example, a person’s salary is not private. Why? Because most of us believe in taxation as a means of pursing equality. If a friend is suicidal, we intervene despite their wishes. During a court case, a persons privacy is often laid on the line in the name of truth. In other words, we live in a society, and as a result, privacy is not guaranteed. If a person wants privacy, I recommend an uninhabited remote island.

I am sympathetic for Pat Rabbitte’s children, considering that they were perhaps hurt or embarrassed by Higgins’ remarks, but my feelings of sympathy are trivial when contrasted with the anger I feel regarding the hypocrisy of Irish politics right now. Michael D. obviously fells the same way and was therefore right to speak out as he did.

Pat Rabbitte is the leader of the largest, left wing, and socialist party in Ireland. Socialists believe in equality for all. What they certainly do not believe in is that some children are entitled to a higher standard of education than others.

Teachers in private schools are civil servants just like in any other school, and receive the same salary as those employed in public schools as far as I know. This gives the impression that all is fair, when in fact this couldn’t be further from the truth. My sister recently thought in a private school in South Dublin. This school has its own gym, a library that my sister believed was superior to the library in her own 3rd level college, and an immaculate staff canteen. My sister has thought in a number of community schools also, so is entitled to contrast the two.

So for the sake of argument, lets say there are two teaching vacancies tomorrow for secondary math teachers. One in a private college, and one in an under-resourced community school in an under-resourced unemployment black-spot like the Donegal Gaeltacht (where I went to school). And lets say there are two teachers available to fill these posts, one very experienced teacher and one greenhorn fresh out of college. Which school is most likely to get the experienced teacher? The private school of course, due to the incentives it offers to its staff. I believe there’s a private school in Tipperary with it’s own golf course.

But some people prioritise their children’s education, over luxuries that other families prioritise (family holidays for example), and as a result have more money to spend on education? That’s a fair point, but it does not escape the principle that all children deserve the same standard of education, and this principle is at the core of Socialism.

Pat Rabbitte is elected on Socialist principles, but does not adhere to them. Of course people are entitled to know this, and of course people are entitled to be angry in this regard. The only reason Pat Rabbitte can afford to send his children to private school is because of the salary he receives as a politician. He is a politician because people expect him to represent their principles in the Dáil – Socialist principles. He has made a mockery of the election system, and a mockery of his party and those who vote for it. Pat Rabbitte has jeopardised the privacy of this own children, and should blame no one else. If he had sent his children to the same schools good enough for those who voted for him, then we would not be having this debate right now.

I believe with respect to this argument, that the privacy issue is being used as a smoke screen to avoid the possibility of Irish society debating the real issues. The privacy issue affects only a few (the Rabbitte family), while the party principles issue affects us all. Despite this, all of the debate that I have heard focuses on how Higgins is a “loose cannon” as I think Patricia McKenna called him. How dare she. This is typical of Irish politicians - party over principles. What we need are loose cannons. It doesn’t surprise me to hear McKenna making such remarks considering the Green Party’s failure to expel Ciaran Cuffe. She happily shares a party with a man who holds stock in numerous oil companies, a man she entrusted as the spokesperson for environmental affairs for her party. Yet, she ridicules Michael D. Higgins because he protests the dilution of his party’s principles – as Blair has done with New Labour. The sheer hypocrisy of it all. Most people think Fine Gael stand for nothing. But at least they stand for nothing, rather than saying that they stand for something when in fact they don’t really stand for it at all. At least Fine Gael aren’t making idiots of us.

I was on my way to bed last weekend, when the cover of my mother’s “Alive!” Catholic newspaper caught my eye – “Outrage over massive funding for EU schools”. I didn’t read about this in the national papers, nor hear it on RTÉ. The gist of the story is Noel Dempsey’s allocation of 16.45 million Euro’s a year to a private college in Brussels which educates the children of Irish beurocrats in Belgium. A school of a similar size in Ireland “receives considerably less than 1 million Euros”. According to “Action!”, this school had 216 nursery places, 830 primary places and 1266 secondary places last year. It has one teacher per 11 pupils. I must also point out that Herman Kelly of The Irish Catholic newspaper first broke this story.

The above makes me very angry. Ireland was created with the intention that we would all be equal. I believe Michael D. Higgins wrote a poem about his father who died like many other Irish liberators, bitter and poor. Ireland’s liberators could have so easily turned the Irish class system on its head (enslaving Unionists) if they wanted too, but didn’t because it went against their socialist principles. I believe it would have been wrong of them to persecute Unionists when this state was created, but I also find it shocking that Rathmines, the only constituency in the 26 counties to vote Unionist in the 1918 elections, should be the wealthiest area in Ireland today, the same area where my sister thought. What I'm trying to say is that the argument that people are wealthy because they work hard, and people are poor because they are lazy, is lost on me. I have ancestors who died creating this country, and any amount of entrepreneurial spirit is a pathetic joke with respect to their sacrifice. So if the fact that your daddy owns a large successful company entitles you to an above average education, then surely I was entitled to the mother of all educations.

Other examples of fundamental Irish-party hypocrisies.
- Fianna Fail, the republican party of green, white and gold. The very same party that has overseen the handing over of Irish sovereignty and neutrality to European Unionism.
- Sinn Féin. Spout on about how they stand for a United Ireland, while simultaneously spouting on about how Catholics will outnumber Protestants in 2016. A true United Ireland party would strive to persuade Protestants in N. Ireland that a United Ireland is in their best interest and not worry about religious percentages.
- PDs. I was recently sent a flier at my student address, describing how hip the PDs are, and how they are in fact a "liberal party". Yeah, liberal in a kind of fascist way perhaps.

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Comments (14 of 14)

Politician is a hypocrite shocker!

by Chekov

Tue May 25, 2004 13:14

This story is really lame. It was carried by the Sindo purely as a pro-FF piece of electioneering. It is surely clear to all that socialists who draw a TD's salary for representing workers are hypocrites in the first place. So you don't have to do any digging to find hypocrisy, just look at the wages.

Hairshirt socialism?

by Joe

Tue May 25, 2004 13:57

I'm no fan of Rabbitte but I'm not fan of the sort of hair shirt socialist logic behind this article.

I'm not on the left because I want everyone to be forced to live at the level of the poorest in society. I'm on the left because I want everyone to live at the level of the richest (or whatever can sustainably approach that level).

I'm not convinced that the hypocrisy demonstrated above is any greater or less than that of a socialist who earns more than the dole and 'fails' to donate the difference to good causes. In fact why take socialism in one country, how about anyone who fails to donate anything they earn above 2 dollars a day as the benchmark.

Likewise to keeping pets or wearing makeup when the same money could feed all the worlds hungry and provide everyone with clean water. Or going on foreign holidays or buying cars, both things that 90% of the world's population cannot afford. Not to mention using the internet :-)

Capitalism not only f**ks the world up it does so in a way that means some of us do a lot better than others because we are born in one place rather than another. And the big difference is not between the north side and the south side of Dublin.

How do we best deal with this? Some do put on the hair shirt and try and live the life of the poor. (And I don't just mean no private education; I mean none of the other stuff I list above). But does this change anything? Or does it simply put many people off socialism as something too caught up with the politics of guilt and misery?

In my opinion a socialist who takes a package holiday to the med or drives a car is at least as 'guilty' that someone who spends money on their kids education. And I'm taking one such holiday over the summer.

This doesn't detract from the fact that a system that gives some kids better education then others because their parents earn more is unfair. But so too is a system where some kids starve while others jet off to Malaga or get taken to McDonalds.

How to change the system is the real question (And voting Labour is definitely not the answer)

Barra's rant

by Republican Socialist

Tue May 25, 2004 15:06

"Pat Rabbitte is the leader of the largest, left wing, and socialist party in Ireland" - WRONG, Sinn Féin is.

Barra, your remark about SF saying that Catholics will outnumber Protestants by 2016 - can you substantiate this with any evidence. While the party predicts that those in favour of a united Ireland will certainly grow in the next decade (as it already is) "Nationalist" and "catholic" are not the same thing. Your logic is sectarian.

Criticising Pat Rabitte is reasonable as regards this issue, but I get the distinct impression from your holier-than-thou-my-sisters-seen-it-all rant that you are another hurler in a politically redundant ditch.

Private school

by keel

Tue May 25, 2004 16:45

What are you people on about, most of your readers went to private schools and now spend the few years between the end of college and getting a job in the old man's firm writting this complete shit. Get a life !!!

Why would a socialist want to emulate poverty?

Wed May 26, 2004 05:16

>>It was carried by the Sindo purely as a pro-FF piece of electioneering.

Purely? I think the fact that the labour leader is attacked by a member of his own party is news worthy - it has nothing to do with FF - unless FF have control over Michael D.'s mouth...

>>So you don't have to do any digging to find hypocrisy, just look at the wages.

Although Pat Rabbitte was a hypocrite last week, I still viewed him as a socialist. I no longer do.
There isn't a Socialist alive who isn't a hypocrite in some form or other. That doesn't mean there are no Socialists.

>>I'm not on the left because I want everyone to be forced to live at the level of the poorest in society. I'm on the left because I want everyone to live at the level of the richest (or whatever can sustainably approach that level).

In order to have richness, you need poorness to balance it out. Ireland might be richer today than it was 20 years ago, but this is at the expense of others - Atlantic Dawn as an example. Use the simple analogy of a two-person island. If one person is rich, then the other is poor. Why? Because the poor guy has to make the rich guys bed, mow his lawn, wash his dishes etc, etc. If he ceased to do these jobs, then the rich person is no longer rich. In an equal society, there is no rich and there is no poor. In an equal education system, every one goes to an equally resourced school. Private schools inhibit this possibility.

>>So you don't have to do any digging to find hypocrisy, just look at the wages.
>>I'm not convinced that the hypocrisy demonstrated above is any greater or less than that of a socialist who earns more than the dole and 'fails' to donate the difference to good causes. In fact why take socialism in one country, how about anyone who fails to donate anything they earn above 2 dollars a day as the benchmark.

I dont necessarily think Pat Rabbitte is a hypocrite for receiving a Dáil wage. There is an equilibrium wage out there, and it is obviously more than the dole. I think in Ireland, 90% of the wealth is in the hands on less than 10% of the population. Many Irish executives receive hundreds of thousands of Euros per annum. Many building contractors make even more. Many farmers receive millions from the government simply because they own farmland near a developing town. These payments make us poorer - or someone in the third world poorer. In an ideal society, we would all bring home roughly the same wage per hour worked. A doctor should become a doctor because they wan't to be a doctor, not because of the money. Does any know the average Irish wage of hand?

>>Likewise to keeping pets or wearing makeup when the same money could feed all the worlds hungry and provide everyone with clean water. Or going on foreign holidays or buying cars, both things that 90% of the world's population cannot afford. Not to mention using the internet :-)

Donating money to the third world won't stop America, Europe et al. from supply it with weapons. In an ideal world with all people equal, there will still be an internet, and we will still wear make-up and feed our pets. I dont think I'm exploiting Africa when I surf the net, but I would be exploiting Asia if I was to purchase Nike - so I dont. In fact, I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket because I believe this exploits the poor. Nor do I use private bus companies because privatized companies make some people very rich (and therefore others poor), while public transport belongs to us all - profit or loss. I'm not denying that I exploit people in some form or other, but I make a genuine effort not to.

>>How do we best deal with this? Some do put on the hair shirt and try and live the life of the poor. (And I don't just mean no private education; I mean none of the other stuff I list above). But does this change anything? Or does it simply put many people off socialism as something too caught up with the politics of guilt and misery?

Socialism is about no poor and no rich. Why would you want to emulate poverty?

>>In my opinion a socialist who takes a package holiday to the med or drives a car is at least as 'guilty' that someone who spends money on their kids education. And I'm taking one such holiday over the summer.

No, that's not how I see it. In an ideal world with all people equal, we will still go on holiday. On the other hand, private schools will not exist.

>>This doesn't detract from the fact that a system that gives some kids better education then others because their parents earn more is unfair. But so too is a system where some kids starve while others jet off to Malaga or get taken to McDonalds.

I don't eat at McDonalds because they exploit workers and children etc. My eating does not endanger someone else's life, as there is more than enough food on this planet for us all.

>>"Pat Rabbitte is the leader of the largest, left wing, and socialist party in Ireland" - WRONG, Sinn Féin is.

Correct. Let me rephrase. Pat Rabitte is the leader of the largest, left wing, and socialist party in the Dáil.

>>Barra, your remark about SF saying that Catholics will outnumber Protestants by 2016 - can you substantiate this with any evidence.

Sure -

Sourse: TCM -
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2003/11/17/story121794.asp

"There could be a united Ireland by 2016, Sinn Fein’s Martin McGuinness predicted tonight."

I regard myself as an Irish Nationalist / Republican, but I'm also related to Jerry McCabe. In my first year at college, I went to a SF meeting because I have always believed that IRA activity was acceptable in N.I. considering the circumstances that Catholics were forced to live in. I'm also an atheist, and therefore do not believe in good or bad, but simple the idea that if you treat a person like an animal they will eventually start acting like one. Anyway, at this meeting I was disgusted and hurt by the way in which Jerry McCabe was referred to as "McCabe" while his murders were referred to as "the lads" ? one would have to have been there to understand the tone involved. And while I'm very understanding of the SF position, I'm also aware that most Protestants in NI will not vote for Sinn Fein in a million years, period. Thats the reality, and Sinn Fein cannot create a united Ireland until every single person is happy to live in it. That's what is ment by the word "United". Your united Ireland, with its 51% Catholic majority will be just as phoney as the British union - or the European Union for that matter. Unions must represent everyone, or at least more than 51% of the population. That's why NI failed in the first place, because it only pleased the majority.

>>While the party predicts that those in favour of a united Ireland will certainly grow in the next decade (as it already is) "Nationalist" and "catholic" are not the same thing. Your logic is sectarian.

"Those in favour of a united Ireland will certainly grow" - what get fatter? If they're not born yet, then how do you know what way they're going to vote? Because their parents go to mass or because they vote SF? My dad votes FF and my mom FG and they both go to mass, so go ahead and predict how I'm going to vote based on that. Catholic and Protestant are not religions in NI - they're labels. If I lived in NI, I'd be termed a Catholic even though I haven't been inside a church for 2 years.

>>Criticising Pat Rabitte is reasonable as regards this issue, but I get the distinct impression from your holier-than-thou-my-sisters-seen-it-all rant that you are another hurler in a politically redundant ditch.

I hadn't considered the private school issue in any real depth until I learned more about it from my sister who experienced it at first hand. How does that give the impression that I'm better than anyone else exactly? And even if I was, wouldn't that be my problem not yours.

>> What are you people on about, most of your readers went to private schools and now spend the few years between the end of college and getting a job in
the old man's firm writting this complete shit. Get a life !!!

Jesus, sorry for having an opinion. I dont think anyone posting above regards themselves as perfect, but at the same time, that doesn't mean were not entitled to discuss issues that concern us. And do you really think any of us are gonna go and "Get a life" as you put it, after reading your post? If you dont, then why did you post? Probably because you like the sound of your own voice - even when you have nothing constructive to say.

Yes you are...

by Jabba

Wed May 26, 2004 12:11

The mineral coltan, when refined, is like gold dust for the high-tech industry (gold, as it happens, is another major desirable product). it is necessary for circuit-boards, computer chips and mobile phones. while canada or australia are major producers, the Democratic Republic of the Congo has become the cheapest source. A brutal war has been supported there since 1998, and a report by the UN last year showed the extent of international involvement in the exploitation of the country, where international companies were accused of profiteering from the war...the countries from which they came lobbied the UN to remove the names of the companies from their list...but you can be sure intel et al were in the chain of events...so my or your computer could well be built on the blood of a citizen of the DRC...

Check out this link for a good report:
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa/DRC.asp

Full title...

Wed May 26, 2004 12:12

Yes you are exploiting Africa when you surf the net

Fair enough Barra

Wed May 26, 2004 13:06

Barra, a chara,

Okay, maybe I was a bit insulting with the "holier than thou" retort, and I acknowledge that you have every right to express an opinion, regardless of what you do or do not do about it.

I agree completely as regards private schooling, but not as regards the TDs wage. Now, rightly or wrongly, I know Sinn Féin actually only allows its TDs and all its workers the average industrial wage, or thereabouts, but I don't actually have an issue with TDs getting a decent wage, higher than this. However, I do agree that their current rate of pay, plus expenses, is exorbitant.

I think the other contributor's commenst were nonetheless apt. When he said that, as socialists, we want everyone to be well off, I think he was correct. When you responded that there should be no well-off, or poor, I think the only difference between your arguments is semantical. Basically, we all agree that the current state of play, whereby Ireland has the second highest gap between rich and poor in industrialised (OECD) countires worldwide, but is also the second richest country, per se, in Europe, is a scandal. But putting TDs, or anyone else, down to the level of poverty at which most of us live will do little to solve that. Everyone, even TDs, deserves a good wage.

I understand how, as a relation of Gerry McCabe, you found those remarks deeply offensive and sympathise with you. They were wrong, but so is the incarceration of the Castlerea 5 for eight years. Without bveing insensitive, I think the double-standard as regards North and South cannot apply.

So What??

by RED BHOY

Wed May 26, 2004 14:36

Who cares if Pat Rabbitte sends his kids to private school. I assume he would love every kid to be educated the same but unfortunately due to the un-educated brainwashed fools of Ireland we'll have substandard public schooling for years to come- possibly forever! Any decent parent wants the best for their kids and If i was in his position I'd contemplate sending the kids to private school!

his own business

by chris bond

Thu May 27, 2004 02:24

If pat rabbite wants to send his kids to a grinds school thats his own personal business and people should not judge him as a politician because of it.

Hypocrisy

by Jude Icious

Thu May 27, 2004 16:24

The last commentator's point would be fair enough if Rabbitte's hare-brained logic didn't allow him to lecture us all on the righteousness of equality in schooling while he personally opts to buttress the two-tier seconday school system. It's like saying it would be all right for Pat and his former DL comrades to call Sinn Féin "terrorists" when they constitute the remaining rump of the Official IRA.
Hypocrisy.
Isn't this ever the bane of the left? That former radicals spend too much time swilling champagne at the Shelbourne.

Rabbit's kids.

by conor - yfg

Thu May 27, 2004 22:21

From reading the Sindo article, I was under the impression it was Willie O' Dea who made the attack on Pat Rabbitte. I think this sort of personalised attack is disgusting and an unwelcome form of American politics. I didnt hear Willie making comments about Bertie cheating on his wife and kids, or Jim Mcdaid for that matter either.

What "private school" means in Ireland

by rc

Sat May 29, 2004 22:02

Because of a media silence on this, few people understand what the labels private and fee-paying actually mean when it comes to Irish schools.

Most Irish schools are "private" in the sense that their land and buildings are not owned by the State. The State pays in full teachers' salaries and pays a subvention per pupil towards running costs. This is currently about EUR 200-250 per year. This covers heating, lighting, furniture, photocopying, repairs and maintenance, chalk, etc.

Some Irish schools are more fully "public" in the sense that they are actually owned by the State - these are VECs and some other colleges. Local authority boards run these schools.

A "private" primary school receiving State support cannot charge fees. So any fee-paying primary schools rely wholly on fees charged. I don't have a problem with this.

However, a "fee-paying private" secondary school loses only the subvention for running costs of EUR 200-250 per year. The state still pays all its teachers' salaries. The EUR 3000-4000 per year per pupil in fees more than compensates for the loss of the subvention and effectively allows those with money to top up their children's education while excluding those who can't. Teachers' salaries represent 90-95% of the running costs of schools. I think this situation is grossly unfair. In this regard Ireland is different from every other EU country, none of which State financial support to secondary schools which charge fees, except for some "follow-the-public"grants.

However the "grind schools" such as the Institute of Education and Ashfield College (where Pat Rabbitte's daughter went) don't receive any State funding. So to my mind, the story about Pat Rabbitte's daughter is a bit of a non-runner. The real problem is that the State perpetuates by its financial support a system of two-tier secondary education through funding fee-paying schools such as Blackrock, Gonzaga, etc. Living in south Dublin I am only too well aware of the appalling social and educational disparities that result from this.

Once upon a time the argument against the State ceasing support for fee-paying schools was that there weren't enough places in other schools to accommodate pupils. This is now no longer true with thousands of empty places in schools across Dublin.

What is truly sickening is that the Labour Party is more dominated by people from fee-paying schools than any other party. Their arrogant and elitist views are derived partly from their narrow upbringing. The hypocrisy of those on the so-called left in Ireland is well shown by their silence on this issue.

Have you thought about editing your piece?

by Tog bog e.

Fri Jan 29, 2016 00:15

Why not get someone to proofread your stuff for spellings e.g " My sister "taught"," bureaucrats" etc or use spell check??

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Comments (14 of 14)